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How I know GW2 will be successful

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  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Sure GW2 will sell tons of copies because it's B2P.

    In that sense it will be a success like SWTOR was.

    Will the game have strong retention?

    Probably not since there's no actual endgame to keep people playing in GW2.


    I agree with this.  Initial sales will be good.  It's a much easier product to sell than a P2P since it is buy one, can play game forever.  By that same token, P2P is a much harder initial sale because of the monthly fee attached.

    Also, keep in mind, just like the NYTimes is partial to the liberal side and FOX to the republicans, I think most of the vocal majority here are partial to GW2, so I wouldn't trust the posts here as a clean barometer.

    As much as you are confident in this game, there is someone on the other side of that spectrum.

    I guess the final question is....what is the definition of success for this B2P title? If it's units sold, then I don't see a problem.  Then again, look at D3 and the number that sold.   Personally, sales does not equal quality in my eyes.  The best MMOs I have played didn't do particularily out of this world in terms of sales. 

    In terms of success, I don't think you can compare this game to a P2P (since there is no sub), it's more akin comparing to something like D3 or LFD.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by helthros

    (...)

     

    Since you asked I can quote you a fan who said something analagous to Guild Wars 2 being the messiah:

    Yet again ArenaNet shows why it is superior to other MMO developers and why GW2 will be the best MMO on market once it goes live, be happy ppl the new age of MMOs is coming, no more EQ/WoW clones !!!!

    Source. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5071648#5071648

     

     

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    Sorry, you are still twisting and turning your comments into what you think you need it to be to save face.  "messiah of MMO"?  Where did you pull that out of all this? 

     

    You previously asked following question in this thread: "First off, who are these people that keep saying that it will be the second coming or the messiah? "

    I provided an example in which a person said something which I found to be very similar to saying that something is the messiah. Since we are talking about MMOs or MMORPGs, it is evidently refering to either "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs".

    Based on your previous reply, you disagreed with the analogy and I therefore asked you what messiah requirements you think have not been met in the example.

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935
    Originally posted by pmcubed

    In its current state, the game is relatively fun and cheap (no subs) - but I'm in the air as to whether it will simply fade away and become a niche game like AoE, SW:TOR, etc.

    I think more of these lines.  I think it will be the kind of success GW1 was.  A niche/in its own genre thing.  For all those that played GW1 for years, I maybe....maybe..got a good 2-4 weeks out of it and that's buying it on release day.  Heck, I've already matched my playtime in TSW with that and TSW just came out this month.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by helthros

    (...)

     

    Since you asked I can quote you a fan who said something analagous to Guild Wars 2 being the messiah:

    Yet again ArenaNet shows why it is superior to other MMO developers and why GW2 will be the best MMO on market once it goes live, be happy ppl the new age of MMOs is coming, no more EQ/WoW clones !!!!

    Source. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5071648#5071648

     

     

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    Sorry, you are still twisting and turning your comments into what you think you need it to be to save face.  "messiah of MMO"?  Where did you pull that out of all this? 

     

    You previously asked following question in this thread: "First off, who are these people that keep saying that it will be the second coming or the messiah? "

    I provided an example in which a person said something which I found to be very similar to saying that something is the messiah. Since we are talking about MMOs or MMORPGs, it is evidently refering to either "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs".

    Based on your previous reply, you disagreed with the analogy and I therefore asked you what messiah requirements you think have not been met in the example.

    What thoughts? It's a video game you can buy for $60 and has nothing to do with the coming of the messiah. A fans enthusiasm for the game in a GW2 forum will never, ever bring Jesus here no matter if there is, or isn't a sub fee. Jesus cares nothing about the trinity system or open world PvP.  That isn't just my thoughts or opinion, it is a fact. :)

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I've been playing GW2 since BWE1, and reading the boards...and I'm pretty convinced that this game will do very well.  But it's not my own experience that really convinced me of this.  It is, shockingly enough, the complaints I read on the board.

    Just about every major MMORPG released in recent history had one or more very serious, potentially gamebreaking, complaints leveled at it in the early stages.  And without exception, one or more of these complaints seemed to eventually lead to its downfall.  A few examples...

    1.  SWTOR:  An MMORPG game that seemed to entirely focus on largely single player story and didn't really bring anything new at all MMORPG-wise.

    2.  WAR:  Seemed like it would be amazing at first, but two faction RvR was just failed from the start, and once we heard that they were cutting every major city but two, and four classes...it was obvious this game had problems.

    3.  AoC:  HUGE gaps in content, so bad that you literally had to just grind for like 15-20 levels, and a newbie area that offered a deceptively rich experience that was not present in the rest of the game.

    All of these complaints were discussed in the early days of the game...basically once the NDA was down, and I think they were HUGE red flags.  However, nearly every complaint about GW2 I read on the board is ridiculous, and they typically fall into a handful of categories:

    1.  The completely unsubstantiated:  "This game is horrible!" (no reason why)

    2.  The obviously incorrect:  "PvP takes no skill at all!"  (Anyone who has played PvP in GW2 will know this is obviously wrong)

    3.  The subjective:  "I don't like the graphics."  (While it is fine to make a complaint like this, I've never seen one that seems like it would be the opinion of the majority)

    Now this said, I completely understand that there are people who will just not like this game, and they may have articulated why very well.  And that is fine.  Not everyone will like it.

    But the key here is that I have yet to see the "killer" complaint for GW2.  There's really no complaint I have seen that will indicate an achilles heel for the game.  And, provided that the quality of the higher level content keeps up with what we have seen so far, I think that is a pretty good indication that it will wind up doing well.

    The game will do well, it have already an huge fanbase from gw1, is a B2P game so even if they have 200k players after the 1st month, nobady will notice. But we dont know what gonna happen after the 1st month or how the endgame will work, or how is the game after level 30+. The WvWvW is good but at some point without enough people in the battlefield is just doorwars 2.0, and it will happen. And there is something that looks you are just ignoring, people get bored pretty fast in the MMO world, gw2 wont have content update and fixes in everysingle week and month like a p2p have.  

    And you are talking about how swtor didnt bring anything new, but is the same deal with gw2, there is nothing new or innovative in the game, The WvW is just a copy and paste of warhammer and daoc RvR, DE are just like Warhammer PQs and Rift DE, the dodge system?, TSW and AoC already have that system. 

    GW2 is a good game but we dont know how it will work at long term for the mmo community, not talking about the gw playerbase. All you need to do is wait 1 month or less after release to see the real state of the game. 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by helthros

     

    (...)

     

    Since you asked I can quote you a fan who said something analagous to Guild Wars 2 being the messiah:

    Yet again ArenaNet shows why it is superior to other MMO developers and why GW2 will be the best MMO on market once it goes live, be happy ppl the new age of MMOs is coming, no more EQ/WoW clones !!!!

    Source. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5071648#5071648

     

     

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    Sorry, you are still twisting and turning your comments into what you think you need it to be to save face.  "messiah of MMO"?  Where did you pull that out of all this? 

     

    You previously asked following question in this thread: "First off, who are these people that keep saying that it will be the second coming or the messiah? "

    I provided an example in which a person said something which I found to be very similar to saying that something is the messiah. Since we are talking about MMOs or MMORPGs, it is evidently refering to either "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs".

    Based on your previous reply, you disagreed with the analogy and I therefore asked you what messiah requirements you think have not been met in the example.

    What thoughts? It's a video game you can buy for $60 and has nothing to do with the coming of the messiah. A fans enthusiasm for the game in a GW2 forum will never, ever bring Jesus here no matter if there is, or isn't a sub fee. Jesus cares nothing about the trinity system or open world PvP.  That isn't just my thoughts or opinion, it is a fact. :)

    Why would anyone ever refer to the actual Christian or Jewish messiah when saying "messiah" in this forum? Is it not obvious that it is refering to "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs" and not the aforementioned messiahs?

     

    Secondly, what would bring the Christian or Jewish messiah is a matter of belief and not a fact. Your statement about what Jesus cares and doesn't care about is not a fact. 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirements that justify calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal evidence to help support that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by pmcubed

    OP seems caught in the europhia of this game.

    While I can say, I do like the game, you cannot say it is without flaws - just like the "failed" games mentioned in the OP.

    • The dynamic events play in the same way rift events occur in the game Rift (ofc) - It is nice they will scale everyone down so all these events can still be fun even for higher level characters.  But as the game ages, fewer people will both to do any of these events, save for a few major ones each day.  
    • Karma grinding for items that only add aesthetic difference will probably get monotonous and turn many off.
    • I dont know if you've checked the teir vendors in the main cities, but the karma price is pretty high - you will need to grind events to afford them.
    • PvP balance - nerfs and buffs absolutely will happen - it is the nature of this profession structure.  Some will be annoyed with it and stop playing (as much +/-)
    • sPvP maps lack variety (cap the flag, king of the hill, etc.)

    Luckily there is a ton of PVE content to last people a few months - and WvWvW is pretty interesting.  

    In its current state, the game is relatively fun and cheap (no subs) - but I'm in the air as to whether it will simply fade away and become a niche game like AoE, SW:TOR, etc.

    I played Rift for a year GW2 DE's are nothing like Rifts zone invasions

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by pmcubed

    OP seems caught in the europhia of this game.

    While I can say, I do like the game, you cannot say it is without flaws - just like the "failed" games mentioned in the OP.

    • The dynamic events play in the same way rift events occur in the game Rift (ofc) - It is nice they will scale everyone down so all these events can still be fun even for higher level characters.  But as the game ages, fewer people will both to do any of these events, save for a few major ones each day.  
    • Karma grinding for items that only add aesthetic difference will probably get monotonous and turn many off.
    • I dont know if you've checked the teir vendors in the main cities, but the karma price is pretty high - you will need to grind events to afford them.
    • PvP balance - nerfs and buffs absolutely will happen - it is the nature of this profession structure.  Some will be annoyed with it and stop playing (as much +/-)
    • sPvP maps lack variety (cap the flag, king of the hill, etc.)

    Luckily there is a ton of PVE content to last people a few months - and WvWvW is pretty interesting.  

    In its current state, the game is relatively fun and cheap (no subs) - but I'm in the air as to whether it will simply fade away and become a niche game like AoE, SW:TOR, etc.

    I played Rift for a year GW2 DE's are nothing like Rifts zone invasions

    Agreed. Rifts DEs stand for Dead End. GW2s DEs have branches with a go/no go system.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

     

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

     

     

     

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by pmcubed

    OP seems caught in the europhia of this game.

    While I can say, I do like the game, you cannot say it is without flaws - just like the "failed" games mentioned in the OP.

    • The dynamic events play in the same way rift events occur in the game Rift (ofc) - It is nice they will scale everyone down so all these events can still be fun even for higher level characters.  But as the game ages, fewer people will both to do any of these events, save for a few major ones each day.  
    • Karma grinding for items that only add aesthetic difference will probably get monotonous and turn many off.
    • I dont know if you've checked the teir vendors in the main cities, but the karma price is pretty high - you will need to grind events to afford them.
    • PvP balance - nerfs and buffs absolutely will happen - it is the nature of this profession structure.  Some will be annoyed with it and stop playing (as much +/-)
    • sPvP maps lack variety (cap the flag, king of the hill, etc.)

    Luckily there is a ton of PVE content to last people a few months - and WvWvW is pretty interesting.  

    In its current state, the game is relatively fun and cheap (no subs) - but I'm in the air as to whether it will simply fade away and become a niche game like AoE, SW:TOR, etc.

    I played Rift for a year GW2 DE's are nothing like Rifts zone invasions

    Agreed. Rifts DEs stand for Dead End. GW2s DEs have branches with a go/no go system.

    not to mention Rifts events are either random or triggered by an item ... GW2 DEs are all story based, some bigger stories than others and some with numerous outcomes. 

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

     

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

     

     

     

    Hehe, still twisting things around are you? Fact is you are wrong and keep trying to justify it. Your example was bad and the only ones that keep calling GW2 the "messiah" are the haters of the game. The example you gave of a GW2 fan isn't even close to giving an example. But keep on, you are trying to talk a couple of people into changing their minds now.

    edit: no matter what I'm going to let it go. This has gotten off topic and I like following rules if I can! :)

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

    To be a messiah, it would technically have to be the second coming (or first coming in some cases) of Jesus. That is how I know it is not literally the second coming of Jesus and that it is a hyperbolic analogy.

     

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

     

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

     

     

     

    Hehe, still twisting things around are you? Fact is you are wrong and keep trying to justify it. Your example was bad and the only ones that keep calling GW2 the "messiah" are the haters of the game. The example you gave of a GW2 fan isn't even close to giving an example. But keep on, you are trying to talk a couple of people into changing their minds now.

     

    Specifically which statements did you find to be wrong? Since you state that "In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah,", then it does not surprise me that you found the example to not be analagous to someone calling a MMORPG "a messiah".An opinion, is however, just an opinion. A question would be: why not identify a set of requirements and then draw the conclusion that no game can ever meet them? The word "perfect" can be handled in a similar fashion, so why not "messiah" too? 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

    To be a messiah, it would technically have to be the second coming (or first coming in some cases) of Jesus. That is how I know it is not literally the second coming of Jesus and that it is a hyperbolic analogy.

     

    So to be "godlike" in a MMORPG, you would actually be to be like a god and not just sufficiently good? To "own" someone in a MMORPG, you would actually need  to have real ownership of the other person?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    If I were to say, "Planetside 2 is the best game I've ever played and it's going to put all other games to shame and it will kill all COD clones," would I be accused of calling it the second coming of Jesus? Probably, but it wouldn't mean that I actually think or said it's the second coming of Jesus. What it means is that I think the game is amazing. And I would be a fanboy to the point of not being able to see any of it's potential faults.

     

    But I've never actually seen a fanboy refer to the game as the second coming of Jesus. It really is just haters that use that term in a hyperbolic fashion to discredit a poster or group of posters. And that is basically what this comes down to. That poster attempted to discredit a whole section of people (including the OP) in order to attempt to earn validity from peers that don't like the GW2 community.

    So the question remains: what requirements does a "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGS" have that you felt the example did not meet? You gave a hint that maybe you would require a game to be without flaws, to see it as a such messiah, is that it?

    Why are you stuck on the idea that there has to be a way to call an MMORPG a messiah?

     

    In my opinion, there are no set of requirement that justifies calling a video game a messiah. And so far the anecdotal proof for that is that I've never actually seen a fan of a game call it the messiah. I've only seen people that want to use hyperbole to discredit others use the term messiah or the phrase "second coming of Jesus."

    If you have no idea what you would require from a MMORPG to consder it to be a "messiah of MMORPGs", why would you be upset if other people used that term in their sentences? Only if you got an idea, should you be upset. 

     

    How can you even know if it is "hyperbole" without actually knowing the requirements for calling a MMORPG a "messiah of MMORPGs"?

    To be a messiah, it would technically have to be the second coming (or first coming in some cases) of Jesus. That is how I know it is not literally the second coming of Jesus and that it is a hyperbolic analogy.

    So to be "godlike" in a MMORPG, you would actually be to be like a god and not just sufficiently good? To "own" someone in a MMORPG, you would actually need  to have real ownership of the other person?

    Umm... I think you've lost your train of thought or something. I just said... right there in red... that it is obviously not literally the second coming of Christ.

     

    I think you're just trying to save face in an argument by obfuscating the subject at this point. Certainly this last post is wierd to say the least.

  • prpshrtprpshrt Member Posts: 258

    These types of threads will only convince the naysayers if these types if people feel this way about a game around 3 months down the road and maybe even 6 or 7 months if it truly is what people make it out to be. 

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406
    Thank Christ I don't look so deeply into these things and could care less about what the masses like. I play what I like. And I can't put my finger on exactly what it is... But playing beta this weekend has left me wanting more. While playing, I don't feel much that stands out as "new", but it has been fun. And that's good enough for my money..lol.
  • ZigZagsZigZags Member UncommonPosts: 381

    I predict this game will do relatively well for the first 12 months but its success will be overshadowed by a host of new Sandboxy MMOs that are being released in the next 12-18 months.

     

    The fact is this game doesn't bring anything new to the table. Just a slightly different version of what we've all been playing for years.

    Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online

    www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    Arenanet need to sell their content packs to keep paying their bills after launch.  Remember they employ MANY MORE people now than they did during their GW1 days. 

    To keep people playing, they need endgame.  Instead of people playing for a couple weeks, quitting, and coming back for the next campaign, they need people continuously playing, purchasing content packs, using the cash shop etc...

     

    That won't happen without endgame, simple as.   And if you say 'oh they will all be back for the expansion', well I'm not so sure.  There are a lot more MMOs today than in 2006, and I wonder how many of the 1,000,000 Rift players will be back for their expanson, or how many of the 2,000,000 SW:TOR players will be back for Makeb?

     

     

    GW2 has no endgame, whether that is raids, open (not 2 week long maps against faceless/nameless enemies in preset 'factions') PvP, any form of competitive PvE.    It has no gear progression (note that pointless daily quest grinds are not needed for 'progression', just some kind of gear advancement is) either, your character only gets prettier, rather than more powerful.  

     

    Guild Wars 2 has no long-term incentive to keep playing.  The original didn't need one.  This game does. 

    how do you figure that? me personally I enjoy all the classes so would like to level every one to 80. I would like to be proficient in PVP with all of them I would like to get the best gear(even if its cosmetic) with all of them. I would like to run all 8 dungeons in each of its 4 modes at least once with all of them(and probably many more times). I would like to WvWvW with all of them... not sure how you can say it has no long-term incentive oh ad guess what GW2 dev's have said there goal is to be known for releasing more content in the quickest timeframe than any MMO. Even if they don't live up to that they will still release new content to keep people interested even longer.. game has TONS of incentive. Forgot to mention would like to do elder dragon events with all of them, play mini-games with all of them.. ect ect ect... just because you don't see the incentives doesn't mean they aren't there

    And you are clearly the 1 person in 10,000 who likes to level every class to max.  To try to imply that this is incentive for the NORMAL mmo player to continue to play the game long term is just foolish at best.

    The only thing this game has that might incentivize long term play is the WvWvW.  This whole "oh there is sets of gear for raiders and people that like to get the super uber sets of gear" crap won't fly if it isnt a substantial stat upgrade.  Very few people are going to put in 100's of hour of raiding/grouping just to get a piece of gear that looks shiny.  Not going to happen.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    Arenanet need to sell their content packs to keep paying their bills after launch.  Remember they employ MANY MORE people now than they did during their GW1 days. 

    To keep people playing, they need endgame.  Instead of people playing for a couple weeks, quitting, and coming back for the next campaign, they need people continuously playing, purchasing content packs, using the cash shop etc...

     

    That won't happen without endgame, simple as.   And if you say 'oh they will all be back for the expansion', well I'm not so sure.  There are a lot more MMOs today than in 2006, and I wonder how many of the 1,000,000 Rift players will be back for their expanson, or how many of the 2,000,000 SW:TOR players will be back for Makeb?

     

     

    GW2 has no endgame, whether that is raids, open (not 2 week long maps against faceless/nameless enemies in preset 'factions') PvP, any form of competitive PvE.    It has no gear progression (note that pointless daily quest grinds are not needed for 'progression', just some kind of gear advancement is) either, your character only gets prettier, rather than more powerful.  

     

    Guild Wars 2 has no long-term incentive to keep playing.  The original didn't need one.  This game does. 

    how do you figure that? me personally I enjoy all the classes so would like to level every one to 80. I would like to be proficient in PVP with all of them I would like to get the best gear(even if its cosmetic) with all of them. I would like to run all 8 dungeons in each of its 4 modes at least once with all of them(and probably many more times). I would like to WvWvW with all of them... not sure how you can say it has no long-term incentive oh ad guess what GW2 dev's have said there goal is to be known for releasing more content in the quickest timeframe than any MMO. Even if they don't live up to that they will still release new content to keep people interested even longer.. game has TONS of incentive. Forgot to mention would like to do elder dragon events with all of them, play mini-games with all of them.. ect ect ect... just because you don't see the incentives doesn't mean they aren't there

    And you are clearly the 1 person in 10,000 who likes to level every class to max.  To try to imply that this is incentive for the NORMAL mmo player to continue to play the game long term is just foolish at best.

    The only thing this game has that might incentivize long term play is the WvWvW.  This whole "oh there is sets of gear for raiders and people that like to get the super uber sets of gear" crap won't fly if it isnt a substantial stat upgrade.  Very few people are going to put in 100's of hour of raiding/grouping just to get a piece of gear that looks shiny.  Not going to happen.

    try actually playing all the classes each one is very interesting with very differn't mechanics. Too many MMOs these days have very cookie cutter classes that all play very similar to other classes in the same game and in other MMOs. I think plenty will play at least a couple classes because they are very enjoyable.. also luckily they actually made the zones fun and intersting with lots to explore unlike many MMOs in the past. I would not mind repeating every zone I have been in so far even IF every quest was exactly the same but luckily they aren't and so going through a zone twice will not feel the exact same everytime adding even more replayability...hopefully you will enjoy the next carrot on a stick clone to come your way.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    1.  The completely unsubstantiated:  "This game is horrible!" (no reason why)

    2.  The obviously incorrect:  "PvP takes no skill at all!"  (Anyone who has played PvP in GW2 will know this is obviously wrong)

    3.  The subjective:  "I don't like the graphics."  (While it is fine to make a complaint like this, I've never seen one that seems like it would be the opinion of the majority)

    1.  This seems to be a common problem.  It seems as though many people make these kinds of posts without even playing the game, and even worse, sometimes they give the most inane reasons, usually saying the game is bad due to the publishers, even if they didn't develop it (for example, both Guild Wars 2 and Aion are published by NCSoft, but Aion was developed by NCSoft and Guild Wars 2 wasn't.  Aion's recent patch increased cash shop prices and accidentally decreased xp gain, and this caused a lot of flak, and a lot of people who say GW2 is bad probably are saying so because of this accident and NCSofts mismanagement of their cash shop).

    2.  Again, a common problem.  PvP is apparently "srs bsns", and tends to drain the losers of their IQ, making them think that PvPers who win are either using an OP class or cheating.  This is a serious problem in PvP games, and you can't go a week without someone complaining about something like this.

    3.  Why does everyone think that graphics make the game?  Super Mario Bros. has worse graphics than, say, Halo: Reach, but that shouldn't matter.  If you can have good gameplay, a good story, and be able to have a memroable experience with the game, graphics should be the least of your worries (just ask anyone who has played Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, and Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts to order those games from best to worst, Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts will always be in the "worst" spot).

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Amjoco
     
    Originally posted by helthros

     

     
    (...)

     

    Since you asked I can quote you a fan who said something analagous to Guild Wars 2 being the messiah:

    Yet again ArenaNet shows why it is superior to other MMO developers and why GW2 will be the best MMO on market once it goes live, be happy ppl the new age of MMOs is coming, no more EQ/WoW clones !!!!

    Source. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5071648#5071648

     

     

     

    So I ask you: what properties does a "messiah of MMO" have that you feel his post did not say neither explicitely nor implicitely?

    Sorry, you are still twisting and turning your comments into what you think you need it to be to save face.  "messiah of MMO"?  Where did you pull that out of all this? 

     

    You previously asked following question in this thread: "First off, who are these people that keep saying that it will be the second coming or the messiah? "

    I provided an example in which a person said something which I found to be very similar to saying that something is the messiah. Since we are talking about MMOs or MMORPGs, it is evidently refering to either "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs".

    Based on your previous reply, you disagreed with the analogy and I therefore asked you what messiah requirements you think have not been met in the example.

    What thoughts? It's a video game you can buy for $60 and has nothing to do with the coming of the messiah. A fans enthusiasm for the game in a GW2 forum will never, ever bring Jesus here no matter if there is, or isn't a sub fee. Jesus cares nothing about the trinity system or open world PvP.  That isn't just my thoughts or opinion, it is a fact. :)

    Why would anyone ever refer to the actual Christian or Jewish messiah when saying "messiah" in this forum? Is it not obvious that it is refering to "messiah of MMOs" or "messiah of MMORPGs" and not the aforementioned messiahs?

     

    Secondly, what would bring the Christian or Jewish messiah is a matter of belief and not a fact. Your statement about what Jesus cares and doesn't care about is not a fact. 

    Because this is the post that both of you are bickering about:

    I don't think the OP is really all that educated on what nay-sayers are saying about GW2 and why it won't be the next coming of christ.

    Also...WTF?  Talk about out in the weeds lol.  This thread is supposed to be about how successful or not successful GW2 will be, and we are apparently talking about the definition of the word "messiah."

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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