I predict this game will do relatively well for the first 12 months but its success will be overshadowed by a host of new Sandboxy MMOs that are being released in the next 12-18 months.
The fact is this game doesn't bring anything new to the table. Just a slightly different version of what we've all been playing for years.
It'd be more accurate to say it's not bringing anything that you wanted.
It has several features I want in MMOs where they've never managed to cram them all in a single MMO.
A big one is how incredibly easy it is to play with your friends, no matter your location, level, or even server and have both of you still meaningfully earning rewards without reducing the content to being laughable.
Because to me, friends are more important than games. That's right. I'm saying it now. I like my friends more than I like MMORPGs. I've had friends I still talk to that I've been friends with for =20 years=. Nobody's MMORPG lasts them that long.
Most sandbox games are utter shit because I couldn't get anybody to play them with me unless I was somehow paying them large amounts of money. One of the few exceptions where I have more than a single friend playing a sandbox is EVE, but you'd have to pay ME to play it.
Maybe future sandboxes will be different, but you couldn't prove it by the current crop.
3. The subjective: "I don't like the graphics." (While it is fine to make a complaint like this, I've never seen one that seems like it would be the opinion of the majority)
I remember when WoW came out and NONE of my gamer friends were even going to give it a chance because it looked
" too cartoony " they thought it was a game made for 10 year olds... granted turned out it was a game made for 10 year olds
but that is not my point.
I litterally had to beg, even buy the game for a few friends to get them to even try it.. and for a few years the loved it.
Sure GW2 will sell tons of copies because it's B2P.
In that sense it will be a success like SWTOR was.
Will the game have strong retention?
Probably not since there's no actual endgame to keep people playing in GW2.
so because it doesn't offer carrot on a stick raiding people won't stick around? this sort of endgame is exactly why themepark after themepark are failing not thriving. I for one had my end of it with Rift and don't think ill even do the pve gear grind treadmill endgame again.
Sadly it may be a while before the whole "Endgame is king" mentality fades away. Many players in the MMO genre seem to be stuck on the whole "The game begins at endgame" line of thinking. And don't get me wrong, I like a raid now and then. I enjoyed them in EQ and I liked doing Merc/Fred raids in AO. But thats because we did those raids like once a week. Now raiding is something you do on a nightly basis, and that just bores me to tears.
At least with TSW and GW2 I will have gritty/dark twisted missions with some really awesome story lines to follow as well as some really great fantasy pve gameplay, events and a storyline for when I get bored. It's all win-win in my book!
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I don't think the OP is really all that educated on what nay-sayers are saying about GW2 and why it won't be the next coming of christ.
I don't think anyone that has played the game can claim that it will fail, but it's not going to be earthshattering the way some will have you believe.
Just off the top of my head, things that people complain about that could be red flags.
Zerging - WvW and highly populated events turn into zerg fests. (my own #1 complaint and the reason I'm not 100% anti-trinity) - Also the ranged vs melee deal in the massive fights.
End game - Remains to be seen just what kind of replayability the game will have at max level.
Dull combat animations.
no Open World PvP.
No gear treadmill (believe it or not, millions of people actually enjoy this).
Uncertainty over cash shop.
etc.
1 and 3 have an affect on me. At first I hated the idea of no open world pvp, but with the way the game works it would be hard to work that in. Either way, I get that fix from EVE so that doesn't bother me as much anymore.
But, like I said, no one that doesn't outright hate themeparks can say that the game is going to fail. Much like GW1, it might not rock the world, but you can bet it will be a solid game with a solid company supporting it.
I'm pretty sure that the OP, who I happen to know very well NEVER said anything remotely close to GW2 being "the next coming of Christ." All that the OP said was that the game will be successful.
How you drew a parallel between "successful" and "messianic," I have no idea.
Is that really all you understood from that post? What I said was simply that you're completely out-of-touch with what people are saying the 'red flags' are.
Zerging - WvW and highly populated events turn into zerg fests. (my own #1 complaint and the reason I'm not 100% anti-trinity) - Also the ranged vs melee deal in the massive fights.
I honestly do not think this is a problem. People zerg in massive battles...it happens, even in reality. Ever hear an expression like "the chaos of battle?" That's zerging.
That said, I have been in a few WvW scenarios already that have evolved past zerging and the game does have mechanics like siege engines that prevent WvW from becoming a complete zergfest. Believe me, your zerg will not fare well when a skilled player is firing a trebuchet at them while they zerg your door. In BWE2, my team which had maybe like 8 people, held off an army of like 40 or 50 with one well positioned trebuchet. They couldn't get to it, and it had a clear line of fire at our keep door so they couldn't knock it down.
End game - Remains to be seen just what kind of replayability the game will have at max level.
Sure, but this is basically just speculation either way.
Dull combat animations.
I disagree, and this would fall under the "subjective" type of complaint in my OP.
no Open World PvP.
Which means no ganking...which is almost always what open world PvP devolves into. I don't see how this is a dealbreaker.
No gear treadmill (believe it or not, millions of people actually enjoy this).
As another poster mentioned, there is a gear treadmill for endgame...it's just not mandatory.
Uncertainty over cash shop.
Uncertainty is uncertainty, we can speculate all we want . But honestly, I am one of the biggest opponents on this board for selling gold for money. I don't think it will ruin the game, but I definitely don't like it.
etc.
Just wanted to say on this topic...
I just spent about 4 hours in WvW...and it is not a zergfest. At least it hasn't been when I played.
And the thing that makes it not a zergfest is siege and supply. Siege is so powerful that it allows a smaller but better positioned force to defeat a much larger one. And siege is built with supply which is generated by camps. Supply isn't used just for siege equip though, it's also used to upgrade your keeps and make them more defensible.
The whole thing revolves around keeping a steady flow of supply to your team and disrupting that of the enemy. But that's not all though, sometimes the enemy will build a trebuchet (extremely long range siege equipment) very far from your keep and you're basically forced to go out on a sortie to take it out or get destroyed by it.
The map design helps prevent zerging as well. There are so many chokepoints that blindly zerging forward will often get your group wiped out, even without siege. Flanking is a must.
The combat itself is very fun and frantic, but at the same time purposeful. The enemy just set up a trebuchet on the ruins across the bridge, and they have fortified their positions with ballistas...you need to take it out. It's not like WAR where you just ran around with a big zerg trading keeps.
Oh and on that note, the reward structure is so much better. You just get rewarded for doing "stuff' that helps your team. Defended the keep for a few minutes? Here's a reward. Escorted your supply caravan? Here's a reward. Took a checkpoint? Here's a reward.
I felt like the reward structure where you only got rewarded for taking keeps really destroyed RvR in WAR and SWTOR.
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
Agreed, but sometimes I kind of think of GW2 as a hybrid of some sort. Not 100% themepark and certainly not classified as sandbox.
Their approach to pve and dynamic events are a bit unconventional from what I've experienced.
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
I would like to add a 4th complaint: "There is nothing new that GW2 brings to the genre." I don't agree with this statement though, but many people seem to bring this up.
There is truth in that statement.....but the people who use it are missing the biggest selling point of GW2.
It does not revolutionize RvR.
It does not revolutionize standard competitive PvP
It does not revolutionize PvE
it does not revolutionize crafting
It DOES include the most refined of all the above in ONE game. Show me another game that has solid refined crafting, PvP, PvE, and RvR released in the last 10 years??
Would have to disagree with the highlighted.
Having the entire game comprise of dynamic events instead of regular quests is fairly revolutionary. As is having no dedicated healer or tank classes. The destruction of the trinity and placing emphasis on self survival is definitely a revolution within MMOs.
This also has a flow on effect to PvP, since there will be no healers, which is fairly revolutionary in itself.
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
although it seems an interesting trend with many people on this board it's either sandbox or it sucks or its wow is the epitome of themeparks and all others are mediocre in comparison... now in the last decade I will say way to many have tried to copy the basic themepark model and failed because they only tried to improve one or two aspects and left the rest at the wayside. But when a game comes out that is truly unique in this themepark genre you call it "medicore" it just makes me laugh. Everyone has their own opinions on games and whats considered fun obviously but in the themepark genre having played them since they started i really can't see how you could call GW2 medicore compared to those games you listed.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
Oh come on. Anyone that reads your blog knows you hate themeparks. I read your blog because I like sandboxes and I always like reading your thoughts on them. But I have to disagree with you here. GW2 is at least not a WoW clone. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with WoW I just have a problem with most themeparks trying to copy it. AoC didn't feel like a WoW clone. TERA,TSW, and GW2 are all at least trying to change up the Themepark scene a little and I think it's a good thing.
edit : yes gw2 feels complete and splendid all in one themepark.. but you guys make it sound like we still want those, like we need them? and like we enjoy them? we dont..and this themepark lacks one thing , competetive pve
gw2 is very casuall mmorpg, and if you had to compare gw2 to wow in dificulty , it would be 1 to 10.. gw2 is by far most casual game i ever saw ( not including actually casual browser games )
Who is "We"? Is "We" the same, small group of people that aren't satisfied with any game that comes out, ask for sandboxy/indie games, and when those come out complaina bout lack of features and polish of AAA titles? Because if soe I'm not of "We" 's.
I want a game that I can get lost in, tat looks pretty, that has tight, responsive combat and some neat ideas that improve on the old and "generic" parts of the MMO genre. I want a game that I don't have to worry about, that I can just play, you know, for entertainment. Something I can jump into knowing that there will be something for me to do, and so far GW2 seems to give me just that.
I don't give a damn about competitive PvE. It's a very artificial creation. Tiered gear progression is nothing more than gating mechanism that tells you that you have to be this tall to ride it and then takes 6-8 hours of your time for potentially no gain whatsoever. It wasn't fun all thos eyears back then, it's not fun now. After every "new content" I cleared I took break for the games knowing there will be nothing to do till next big patch or expansion. Not to mention the fact that the only thing gear progression achieves in the end is making previous content obsolate.
Frankly I'd rather be "filthy casual" enjoying my time at PC rather than treat gaming as a second work I don't even get paid for (and actually have to pay to do it)
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
It's perfectly fine to dislike GW2...but I'm curious. As a WoW player, what about GW2 makes you think it is mediocre as compared to WoW?
I would like to add a 4th complaint: "There is nothing new that GW2 brings to the genre." I don't agree with this statement though, but many people seem to bring this up.
There is truth in that statement.....but the people who use it are missing the biggest selling point of GW2.
It does not revolutionize RvR.
It does not revolutionize standard competitive PvP
It does not revolutionize PvE
it does not revolutionize crafting
It DOES include the most refined of all the above in ONE game. Show me another game that has solid refined crafting, PvP, PvE, and RvR released in the last 10 years??
Would have to disagree with the highlighted.
Having the entire game comprise of dynamic events instead of regular quests is fairly revolutionary. As is having no dedicated healer or tank classes. The destruction of the trinity and placing emphasis on self survival is definitely a revolution within MMOs.
This also has a flow on effect to PvP, since there will be no healers, which is fairly revolutionary in itself.
Well, to be fair, they have the renown hearts as well that are much more similar to traditional quests than the DEs are. I do feel like ANet caved a bit on their core ideals of no questing, all dynamic events by adding the hearts.
That said though, I'm glad they added them. They are still fairly different from traditional questing, and help give the player some guidance on the map. The only problem I have with them though is that they seem to have a huge spotlight shining on them from the scout system, but DEs don't. So a lot of players will just roll through the renown hearts in a zone, not explore at all, and then declare the game to be just another quest hub MMO.
edit : yes gw2 feels complete and splendid all in one themepark.. but you guys make it sound like we still want those, like we need them? and like we enjoy them? we dont..and this themepark lacks one thing , competetive pve
gw2 is very casuall mmorpg, and if you had to compare gw2 to wow in dificulty , it would be 1 to 10.. gw2 is by far most casual game i ever saw ( not including actually casual browser games )
Who is "We"? Is "We" the same, small group of people that aren't satisfied with any game that comes out, ask for sandboxy/indie games, and when those come out complaina bout lack of features and polish of AAA titles? Because if soe I'm not of "We" 's.
I want a game that I can get lost in, tat looks pretty, that has tight, responsive combat and some neat ideas that improve on the old and "generic" parts of the MMO genre. I want a game that I don't have to worry about, that I can just play, you know, for entertainment. Something I can jump into knowing that there will be something for me to do, and so far GW2 seems to give me just that.
I don't give a damn about competitive PvE. It's a very artificial creation. Tiered gear progression is nothing more than gating mechanism that tells you that you have to be this tall to ride it and then takes 6-8 hours of your time for potentially no gain whatsoever. It wasn't fun all thos eyears back then, it's not fun now. After every "new content" I cleared I took break for the games knowing there will be nothing to do till next big patch or expansion. Not to mention the fact that the only thing gear progression achieves in the end is making previous content obsolate.
Frankly I'd rather be "filthy casual" enjoying my time at PC rather than treat gaming as a second work I don't even get paid for (and actually have to pay to do it)
Haha amen brother!
I actually consider myself a "core" gamer because I want games with a lot of depth and complexity. What I do NOT want is a game that requires me to slave away at mindless tasks for months on end to get a shiny.
I think there needs to be a distinction between "hardcore" games that are complex and deep, and "hardcore" games that require you take them on as a second job to be successful.
I really enjoy Rift and have since beta for the most part, but this game crushes it imo, on so many levels. Completely subjective, I know, but all I have to work with are my own feelings after playing both.
1) The individual, unique racial starting areas. Each one so much more detailed than either city in Rift.
2) The weather, right off the bat. I don't have to wait until level 20 to go to moonshade highlands to see rain! Or Iron Pine to see snow! I am a sucker for weather and ambiance, and this game is great with this stuff.
3) The races are so unique (compared to each other) here! From gigantic to tiny, far more variance than the size range between Bahmi and Dwarf. The individual race lore is so much deeper here. The running on all 4's for the Charr, etc...
4) I played quite a few characters to max in Rift and the dynamic events here are so much better done, better written, better executed, feel more dyamic and more involved, they have better emotional hooks, etc... the Heart quests are also decent and round things out very well here imo. The entire questing experience in GW2 is more involved and more ambient for me.
5) The art style is leaps and bounds better for me. Rift looks great to me, I love the graphics there on ultra, but GW2 to me has a very hand painted look to it. I was in awe a LOT while I played, it gave me a very VG type feel as far as the art goes. That old hand painted look... I'll take in any day over other options.
6) My favorite PvP experience in any mmorpg to date, by such a long shot, is DAoC. The siege weapons, the bashing on keep doors for 20+ minutes, the raoming PvE mobs in the frontiers, the taking and holding key structures, the 3 faction rvr, all of it. I never cared about the rank system or material rewards for doing it, I only even cared about the actual experience while doing it, and I did it for 4 straight years there. GW2 is the closest I've ever seen to matching that feeling for me with world vs world vs world. Aions end game pvp was a joke for me, Rifts 3 faction pvp system (the new Conquest) is better than what they had, but still a joke when compared to camelot. GW2 brought those old feelings back for me and I cant wait to jump back in there.
The list goes on and on... the size and the scope of this game verses Rift, combined with the little details and ambient touches, on top of the art style and emotional hooks and questing system and W-v-W pvp, just puts this game in a catergory that isnt even in the same ballpark as Rift, imo of course, and this is coming fropm someone who truly loves Rift and has a deep respect for Trion. It's not even close when comparing games at this point imo.
Edit * and I was completely sold on the fact, just 3 weeks ago (you can see in post history here), that I would never be buying or playing GW2 based on streams and videos that I saw of it. It wasn't until I got in here and experienced it first hand that I became a big fan of it. I'd highly recommend anyone who think s they dont like it based on streams or videos, to jump in if there's ever a free trial, and see for themselves. You might end up still hating it, but you might come away with a whole different experience like I did. It's worht keeping a slightly open mind imo, if the free chance ever arises.
I really enjoy Rift and have since beta for the most part, but this game crushes it imo, on so many levels. Completely subjective, I know, but all I have to work with are my own feelings after playing both.
1) The individual, unique racial starting areas. Eachone so much more detailed than either city in Rift.
2) The weather, right off the bat. I don't have to wait until level 20 to go to moonshade highlands to see rain! Or Iron Pine to see snow! I am a sucker for weather and ambiance, and this game is great with this stuff.
3) The races are so unique (compared to each other) here! From gigantic to tiny, far more variance than the size range between Bahmi and Dwarf. The individual race lore is so much deeper here. The running on all 4's for the Charr, etc...
4) I played quite a few characters to max in Rift and the dynamic events here are so much better done, better written, better executed, feel more dyamic and more involved, they have better emotional hooks, etc... the Heart quests are alos decent and round things out very well here imo. The entire questing experience in GW2 is more involved and moreambient for me.
5) The art style is leaps and bounds better for me. Rift looks great to me, I love the graphics there on ultra, but GW2 to me has a very hand painted look to it. I was in awe a LOT while I played, it gave me a very VG type feel as far as the art goes. That old hand painted look... I'll take in any day over other options.
6) My favorite PvP experience in any mmorpg to date, by such a long shot, is DAoC. The siege weapons, the bashing on keep doors for 20+ minutes, the raoming PvE mobs in the frontiers, the taking and holding key structures, the 3 faction rvr, all of it. I never cared about the rank system or material rewards for doing it, I only even cared about the actual experience while doing it, and I did it for 4 straight years there. GW2 is the closest I've ever seen to matching that feeling for me with world vs world vs world. Aions end game pvp was a joke for me, Rifts 3 faction pvp system (the new Conquest) is better than what they had, but still a joke when compared to camelot. GW2 brought those old feelings back for me and I cant wait to jump back in there.
The list goes on and on... the size and the scop of this game verses Rift, combined with the little details and ambient touches, on top of the art style and emotional hooks and questing system and W-v-W pvp, just puts this game in a catergory that isnt even in the same ballpark as Rift, imo of course, and this is coming fropm someone who truly loves Rift and has a deep respect for Trion. It's not even close when comparing games at this point imo.
Feel the same way Rift is a great game and I played it for almost a year but find GW2 leaps better in almost every aspect. Only thing I can hope is gw2 dev's can match trion worlds speed of releasing new content and from reading the dev interviews it seems that is their goal so we shall see
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Feel the same way Rift is a great game and I played it for almost a year but find GW2 leaps better in almost every aspect. Only thing I can hope is gw2 dev's can match trion worlds speed of releasing new content and from reading the dev interviews it seems that is their goal so we shall see
100% agree. Trion is amazing with content releases. And they also had some great ideas that i hope GW2 looks into. For instance, I wouldn't argue if Arenanet added AoE looting
I have also noticed many people on the site hate any themepark MMO no matter what and if it's not a sandbox type game it = fail. I'm looking forward to the upcomming sandbox games but doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good themepark game as well, and honestly can't think of any themepark put together as well as this one.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
It's perfectly fine to dislike GW2...but I'm curious. As a WoW player, what about GW2 makes you think it is mediocre as compared to WoW?
I would ask you, if you truly believe GW2 is a better game than WoW, to make a list of what GW2 offers that WoW doesn't all ready offer?
So I've been playing GW2 since BWE1, and reading the boards...and I'm pretty convinced that this game will do very well. But it's not my own experience that really convinced me of this. It is, shockingly enough, the complaints I read on the board.
Just about every major MMORPG released in recent history had one or more very serious, potentially gamebreaking, complaints leveled at it in the early stages. And without exception, one or more of these complaints seemed to eventually lead to its downfall. A few examples...
1. SWTOR: An MMORPG game that seemed to entirely focus on largely single player story and didn't really bring anything new at all MMORPG-wise.
2. WAR: Seemed like it would be amazing at first, but two faction RvR was just failed from the start, and once we heard that they were cutting every major city but two, and four classes...it was obvious this game had problems.
3. AoC: HUGE gaps in content, so bad that you literally had to just grind for like 15-20 levels, and a newbie area that offered a deceptively rich experience that was not present in the rest of the game.
All of these complaints were discussed in the early days of the game...basically once the NDA was down, and I think they were HUGE red flags. However, nearly every complaint about GW2 I read on the board is ridiculous, and they typically fall into a handful of categories:
1. The completely unsubstantiated: "This game is horrible!" (no reason why)
2. The obviously incorrect: "PvP takes no skill at all!" (Anyone who has played PvP in GW2 will know this is obviously wrong)
3. The subjective: "I don't like the graphics." (While it is fine to make a complaint like this, I've never seen one that seems like it would be the opinion of the majority)
Now this said, I completely understand that there are people who will just not like this game, and they may have articulated why very well. And that is fine. Not everyone will like it.
But the key here is that I have yet to see the "killer" complaint for GW2. There's really no complaint I have seen that will indicate an achilles heel for the game. And, provided that the quality of the higher level content keeps up with what we have seen so far, I think that is a pretty good indication that it will wind up doing well.
I completely agree! Very well organized and informative post. Obama while using a teleprompter couldn't have said it better!
Lateral progression, downscaling to zone to make all content relevant, no tier/ stat inflation, no peer pressure to rush, non linear questing, better Gtx, better pvp options, better build variety, less balancing issues, shared guilds, more open community, it's not 8 years old...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
No they don't. Comparing "rifts" in Rift with the events in GW2 is like comparing a traban with a ferrari enzo.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
It'd be more accurate to say it's not bringing anything that you wanted.
It has several features I want in MMOs where they've never managed to cram them all in a single MMO.
A big one is how incredibly easy it is to play with your friends, no matter your location, level, or even server and have both of you still meaningfully earning rewards without reducing the content to being laughable.
Because to me, friends are more important than games. That's right. I'm saying it now. I like my friends more than I like MMORPGs. I've had friends I still talk to that I've been friends with for =20 years=. Nobody's MMORPG lasts them that long.
Most sandbox games are utter shit because I couldn't get anybody to play them with me unless I was somehow paying them large amounts of money.
One of the few exceptions where I have more than a single friend playing a sandbox is EVE, but you'd have to pay ME to play it.
Maybe future sandboxes will be different, but you couldn't prove it by the current crop.
i agree Guild wars 2 will be successful igshops will wil
I remember when WoW came out and NONE of my gamer friends were even going to give it a chance because it looked
" too cartoony " they thought it was a game made for 10 year olds... granted turned out it was a game made for 10 year olds
but that is not my point.
I litterally had to beg, even buy the game for a few friends to get them to even try it.. and for a few years the loved it.
Sadly it may be a while before the whole "Endgame is king" mentality fades away. Many players in the MMO genre seem to be stuck on the whole "The game begins at endgame" line of thinking. And don't get me wrong, I like a raid now and then. I enjoyed them in EQ and I liked doing Merc/Fred raids in AO. But thats because we did those raids like once a week. Now raiding is something you do on a nightly basis, and that just bores me to tears.
At least with TSW and GW2 I will have gritty/dark twisted missions with some really awesome story lines to follow as well as some really great fantasy pve gameplay, events and a storyline for when I get bored. It's all win-win in my book!
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Just wanted to say on this topic...
I just spent about 4 hours in WvW...and it is not a zergfest. At least it hasn't been when I played.
And the thing that makes it not a zergfest is siege and supply. Siege is so powerful that it allows a smaller but better positioned force to defeat a much larger one. And siege is built with supply which is generated by camps. Supply isn't used just for siege equip though, it's also used to upgrade your keeps and make them more defensible.
The whole thing revolves around keeping a steady flow of supply to your team and disrupting that of the enemy. But that's not all though, sometimes the enemy will build a trebuchet (extremely long range siege equipment) very far from your keep and you're basically forced to go out on a sortie to take it out or get destroyed by it.
The map design helps prevent zerging as well. There are so many chokepoints that blindly zerging forward will often get your group wiped out, even without siege. Flanking is a must.
The combat itself is very fun and frantic, but at the same time purposeful. The enemy just set up a trebuchet on the ruins across the bridge, and they have fortified their positions with ballistas...you need to take it out. It's not like WAR where you just ran around with a big zerg trading keeps.
Oh and on that note, the reward structure is so much better. You just get rewarded for doing "stuff' that helps your team. Defended the keep for a few minutes? Here's a reward. Escorted your supply caravan? Here's a reward. Took a checkpoint? Here's a reward.
I felt like the reward structure where you only got rewarded for taking keeps really destroyed RvR in WAR and SWTOR.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Agreed, but sometimes I kind of think of GW2 as a hybrid of some sort. Not 100% themepark and certainly not classified as sandbox.
Their approach to pve and dynamic events are a bit unconventional from what I've experienced.
I can. I'll start with WoW, add Rift, add Aion, add AoC...there are plenty of games that are better or as good as this game. GW2 is just another option for themepark players. It does nothing to advance the genre and if anything it has taken it back in some instances. I could go into deeper detail, but why waist my time, I've said it all before and it doesn't matter. I love how mediocrity has now been accepted as being something great.
could not agree less with your view of the game but i'm sure you'll spend the next ten years disliking every new MMO that comes out one after one no matter what they offer. If you truly feel this one is mediocre compared the the rest of the themepark clones over the last 10 years you are really in for a slew of more dissapointments in the future.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
LOL Teala is one of the "sandbox" only crowd. You can't really take her opinion on any themepark too seriously.
My theme song.
Yes, I am only a sandbox gamer...my sub to WoW that I play weekly means nothing. ::rolls her eyes::
Would have to disagree with the highlighted.
Having the entire game comprise of dynamic events instead of regular quests is fairly revolutionary. As is having no dedicated healer or tank classes. The destruction of the trinity and placing emphasis on self survival is definitely a revolution within MMOs.
This also has a flow on effect to PvP, since there will be no healers, which is fairly revolutionary in itself.
although it seems an interesting trend with many people on this board it's either sandbox or it sucks or its wow is the epitome of themeparks and all others are mediocre in comparison... now in the last decade I will say way to many have tried to copy the basic themepark model and failed because they only tried to improve one or two aspects and left the rest at the wayside. But when a game comes out that is truly unique in this themepark genre you call it "medicore" it just makes me laugh. Everyone has their own opinions on games and whats considered fun obviously but in the themepark genre having played them since they started i really can't see how you could call GW2 medicore compared to those games you listed.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Oh come on. Anyone that reads your blog knows you hate themeparks. I read your blog because I like sandboxes and I always like reading your thoughts on them. But I have to disagree with you here. GW2 is at least not a WoW clone. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with WoW I just have a problem with most themeparks trying to copy it. AoC didn't feel like a WoW clone. TERA,TSW, and GW2 are all at least trying to change up the Themepark scene a little and I think it's a good thing.
My theme song.
Who is "We"? Is "We" the same, small group of people that aren't satisfied with any game that comes out, ask for sandboxy/indie games, and when those come out complaina bout lack of features and polish of AAA titles? Because if soe I'm not of "We" 's.
I want a game that I can get lost in, tat looks pretty, that has tight, responsive combat and some neat ideas that improve on the old and "generic" parts of the MMO genre. I want a game that I don't have to worry about, that I can just play, you know, for entertainment. Something I can jump into knowing that there will be something for me to do, and so far GW2 seems to give me just that.
I don't give a damn about competitive PvE. It's a very artificial creation. Tiered gear progression is nothing more than gating mechanism that tells you that you have to be this tall to ride it and then takes 6-8 hours of your time for potentially no gain whatsoever. It wasn't fun all thos eyears back then, it's not fun now. After every "new content" I cleared I took break for the games knowing there will be nothing to do till next big patch or expansion. Not to mention the fact that the only thing gear progression achieves in the end is making previous content obsolate.
Frankly I'd rather be "filthy casual" enjoying my time at PC rather than treat gaming as a second work I don't even get paid for (and actually have to pay to do it)
It's perfectly fine to dislike GW2...but I'm curious. As a WoW player, what about GW2 makes you think it is mediocre as compared to WoW?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well, to be fair, they have the renown hearts as well that are much more similar to traditional quests than the DEs are. I do feel like ANet caved a bit on their core ideals of no questing, all dynamic events by adding the hearts.
That said though, I'm glad they added them. They are still fairly different from traditional questing, and help give the player some guidance on the map. The only problem I have with them though is that they seem to have a huge spotlight shining on them from the scout system, but DEs don't. So a lot of players will just roll through the renown hearts in a zone, not explore at all, and then declare the game to be just another quest hub MMO.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Haha amen brother!
I actually consider myself a "core" gamer because I want games with a lot of depth and complexity. What I do NOT want is a game that requires me to slave away at mindless tasks for months on end to get a shiny.
I think there needs to be a distinction between "hardcore" games that are complex and deep, and "hardcore" games that require you take them on as a second job to be successful.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I really enjoy Rift and have since beta for the most part, but this game crushes it imo, on so many levels. Completely subjective, I know, but all I have to work with are my own feelings after playing both.
1) The individual, unique racial starting areas. Each one so much more detailed than either city in Rift.
2) The weather, right off the bat. I don't have to wait until level 20 to go to moonshade highlands to see rain! Or Iron Pine to see snow! I am a sucker for weather and ambiance, and this game is great with this stuff.
3) The races are so unique (compared to each other) here! From gigantic to tiny, far more variance than the size range between Bahmi and Dwarf. The individual race lore is so much deeper here. The running on all 4's for the Charr, etc...
4) I played quite a few characters to max in Rift and the dynamic events here are so much better done, better written, better executed, feel more dyamic and more involved, they have better emotional hooks, etc... the Heart quests are also decent and round things out very well here imo. The entire questing experience in GW2 is more involved and more ambient for me.
5) The art style is leaps and bounds better for me. Rift looks great to me, I love the graphics there on ultra, but GW2 to me has a very hand painted look to it. I was in awe a LOT while I played, it gave me a very VG type feel as far as the art goes. That old hand painted look... I'll take in any day over other options.
6) My favorite PvP experience in any mmorpg to date, by such a long shot, is DAoC. The siege weapons, the bashing on keep doors for 20+ minutes, the raoming PvE mobs in the frontiers, the taking and holding key structures, the 3 faction rvr, all of it. I never cared about the rank system or material rewards for doing it, I only even cared about the actual experience while doing it, and I did it for 4 straight years there. GW2 is the closest I've ever seen to matching that feeling for me with world vs world vs world. Aions end game pvp was a joke for me, Rifts 3 faction pvp system (the new Conquest) is better than what they had, but still a joke when compared to camelot. GW2 brought those old feelings back for me and I cant wait to jump back in there.
The list goes on and on... the size and the scope of this game verses Rift, combined with the little details and ambient touches, on top of the art style and emotional hooks and questing system and W-v-W pvp, just puts this game in a catergory that isnt even in the same ballpark as Rift, imo of course, and this is coming fropm someone who truly loves Rift and has a deep respect for Trion. It's not even close when comparing games at this point imo.
Edit * and I was completely sold on the fact, just 3 weeks ago (you can see in post history here), that I would never be buying or playing GW2 based on streams and videos that I saw of it. It wasn't until I got in here and experienced it first hand that I became a big fan of it. I'd highly recommend anyone who think s they dont like it based on streams or videos, to jump in if there's ever a free trial, and see for themselves. You might end up still hating it, but you might come away with a whole different experience like I did. It's worht keeping a slightly open mind imo, if the free chance ever arises.
Feel the same way Rift is a great game and I played it for almost a year but find GW2 leaps better in almost every aspect. Only thing I can hope is gw2 dev's can match trion worlds speed of releasing new content and from reading the dev interviews it seems that is their goal so we shall see
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
100% agree. Trion is amazing with content releases. And they also had some great ideas that i hope GW2 looks into. For instance, I wouldn't argue if Arenanet added AoE looting
Yes, we see how well that retained players with TOR.
I would ask you, if you truly believe GW2 is a better game than WoW, to make a list of what GW2 offers that WoW doesn't all ready offer?
I completely agree! Very well organized and informative post. Obama while using a teleprompter couldn't have said it better!
See you on August 25th in WVW! :-)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D