Holy trinity is a static combat tactic that is dull and boring.
Healer: press 1
Healer press 1
Healer press 1
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Rest of the lot: DPS DPS DPS DPS
So changing that to all 5 being DPS changes what exactly? They are still doing: DPS DPS DPS but now they get hit by something and have to find a certain way to get to perfect health again. damaging that oh so cool dps they are trying to do.
New npc AI is making holy trinity obsolete. The roles can still there, but is not mandatory. In GW2 you can have a Guardian tanking, a Engineer and a Elementalist healing and all the rest dpsing. You can do that you just have to organize with your team mates but its no mandatory like in the old obsolete combat when you stay still playing with your hotbar waiting to someone on vent tell you to move out of the aoe. Those boring long fight will be no more hopefully.
Holy trinity is great if you are a tank or a healer as you always get groups. Unfortunately the majority of players tend to play dps classes. If there are no tanks or healers available then they either solo or stand around twiddling their thumbs.
Originally posted by spookydom Not against it and never will be. However I do feel it has been done to death, I like the way dev's are beginning to look at new ways for teams to play together in mmo's. If any genre of games needs a little innovation I feel it's the mmorpg. I support new ideas, if they don't work there is a solid foundation to go back to after all.
True.. the typical trinity which anymore is AOE taunt, Heals and AOE dps is boring as hell.. The trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, CC and kiting are in play..
all of that already happens. dps classes have debuffs, everyone has some form of cc, and depending on the fight you're in, you will kite a boss instead of killing it.
WoW has all of that already. And im sure many other games do as well
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
You honestly think that?
they could totally randomize a boss or mob his skills tactics etc. what will happen is you will look for early signs to see what he is about to do and act acordingly. It might be random when what happens but evyrhting always has to be scripted.
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
Okay, so a follow up on that - what if we kept this trinity, and added this smart UI. Then it would be up to the Tank to pick up the changes to the boss mechanics.
It depends on what skills are put into the game. It doesn't matter how smart the AI is, a skill like taunt will rendor that AI irrelevant
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
from what you're saying, all thats needed is a bit more randomness in fights then. instead of being scripted to use skills or change of tactics at set parameters, it would go a long way if it was unpredictable. rather than just get rid of the trinity and claim you have a smart ai(which eqn definitely wont have)
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
I don't find spending a few hours watching youtube videos for strategy and then being a trained monkey that pushes buttons all that challenging honestly.
Keeping everyone on the same page is challenging. Having to communicate is challenging. You can do that without Trinity.
Trinity in of itself is not challenging. It's just a game mechanic with defined roles for everyone to take.
In my experience the worst players are the ones that jealously guard trinity more than anyone else.
They want to be needed before being judged on skill. In EQN you will need good players not a crappy player that happens to have a role you need.
Not my comment above. That comes from Dave Georgeson.
I wouldn't say I'm against it as much as I would say that I want something new. This is one of the reasons I'm interested in seeing how EQN's vastly improved AI impacts combat. When you look at a system like GW2, one of the reasons it falls kind of flat is because the combat style changed for the characters, but not much on the mob side. With better mob AI, things could be sufficiently different in EQN, and still allow for people to create builds that put them into support roles if they so desire.
The thing is, the Trinity is predicable. It was better when you also had crowd control because there was that extra dynamic to contend with, but with plain old aggro tanking, it's pretty dumb combat IMO. Just because your tank can stand there and take a beating (with heals) does not make the combat fun or difficult.
BTW, I'm primarily a support player, normally choosing heals or tanking. In Lotro, I loved playing Loremaster because of my CC abilities, and power transfers.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I am for the Holy Trinity. And I will start my first eq next character as a healer. Because I want to. But I know its not always easy.My most senior Character was a Necro. 90 Necro... Why? Cause i didnt need any help . But I played a Beserker and others as well. But I Think its important to have a group what works... After seeing the vidoe on how the ai will work . Great if this was real world what would you do? Kill the healer and mage first .slow the tank and he will die cause the healer is dead. Mage had to die cause he does too much damage quickly. If I could survive that... I believe I could kill the rest of the party.... I like that the AI will think like we do... Chess is a smart mans, or womans game. If you cant play stick to checkers ....Or would you perfer that we dumbed the game down. And if not you can play Guild wars
Originally posted by spookydom Not against it and never will be. However I do feel it has been done to death, I like the way dev's are beginning to look at new ways for teams to play together in mmo's. If any genre of games needs a little innovation I feel it's the mmorpg. I support new ideas, if they don't work there is a solid foundation to go back to after all.
True.. the typical trinity which anymore is AOE taunt, Heals and AOE dps is boring as hell.. The trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, CC and kiting are in play..
You described Everquest.................that's why EQ was so memorable and that's why it needs to be rebooted, because it's the only MMO (with Vanguard) who has this kind of Group Layout.
Originally posted by spookydom Not against it and never will be. However I do feel it has been done to death, I like the way dev's are beginning to look at new ways for teams to play together in mmo's. If any genre of games needs a little innovation I feel it's the mmorpg. I support new ideas, if they don't work there is a solid foundation to go back to after all.
True.. the typical trinity which anymore is AOE taunt, Heals and AOE dps is boring as hell.. The trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, CC and kiting are in play..
all of that already happens. dps classes have debuffs, everyone has some form of cc, and depending on the fight you're in, you will kite a boss instead of killing it.
WoW has all of that already. And im sure many other games do as well
HUH?
what was it that i said that you found so hard to follow? he said the trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, cc, and kiting are in play. that is already the case. pretty much every dps class has a debuff or two, some having more like warlocks. also all dps/healers/tanks have some form of cc whether it be banish, knock down, stun, sap, mind control, etcetc. and also some fights require you to kite a mob or mobs or even the boss around for a bit less you die in one hit.
Holy trinity is a static combat tactic that is dull and boring.
Healer: press 1
Healer press 1
Healer press 1
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Rest of the lot: DPS DPS DPS DPS
So changing that to all 5 being DPS changes what exactly? They are still doing: DPS DPS DPS but now they get hit by something and have to find a certain way to get to perfect health again. damaging that oh so cool dps they are trying to do.
New npc AI is making holy trinity obsolete. The roles can still there, but is not mandatory. In GW2 you can have a Guardian tanking, a Engineer and a Elementalist healing and all the rest dpsing. You can do that you just have to organize with your team mates but its no mandatory like in the old obsolete combat when you stay still playing with your hotbar waiting to someone on vent tell you to move out of the aoe. Those boring long fight will be no more hopefully.
Wait.. I"m confused here.. First you say it's ok to "organize" with your team, but then turn around and bash the idea that your team tells you to get out of the AOE?? So you want your team to help or not.. and if the COMBAT is so intense that as a healer you are spending more focus on health bars then fighting.... What does that tell you about EQN's version? Healthbars mean nothing, just zerg zerg zerg.. ?
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
from what you're saying, all thats needed is a bit more randomness in fights then. instead of being scripted to use skills or change of tactics at set parameters, it would go a long way if it was unpredictable. rather than just get rid of the trinity and claim you have a smart ai(which eqn definitely wont have)
How do you know this? Have you played the game? No. So stop stating this as fact.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Originally posted by spookydom Not against it and never will be. However I do feel it has been done to death, I like the way dev's are beginning to look at new ways for teams to play together in mmo's. If any genre of games needs a little innovation I feel it's the mmorpg. I support new ideas, if they don't work there is a solid foundation to go back to after all.
True.. the typical trinity which anymore is AOE taunt, Heals and AOE dps is boring as hell.. The trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, CC and kiting are in play..
You described Everquest.................that's why EQ was so memorable and that's why it needs to be rebooted, because it's the only MMO (with Vanguard) who has this kind of Group Layout.
And that's what SoE doesn't get.
wrong, its hardly the only mmo that has that kind of group layout. WoW has it too. it was used more back in vanilla WoW up to burning crusade, after that though cc just stopped being used all together because they made dungeons/encounters so damn easy. back in Burning crusade groups HAD to sap and use cc to get through heroic dungeons and even starter groups doing their first dungeon runs while leveling had to use cc or just be extra careful but now its just a zerg mentality.
The layout is still there, its just the encounters are pathetically easy now where its not necessary to use except in some raid fights.
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
from what you're saying, all thats needed is a bit more randomness in fights then. instead of being scripted to use skills or change of tactics at set parameters, it would go a long way if it was unpredictable. rather than just get rid of the trinity and claim you have a smart ai(which eqn definitely wont have)
How do you know this? Have you played the game? No. So stop stating this as fact.
you make it to easy.
Those questions you asked me, soon as you can answer them yourself so shall i.
il just leave this little link here for ya. They are not all MMORPG's but alot of em are its the NEw thing. or was the new thing its being overdone right now asswell.
id kinda like my rebooted EQ1 we do not have that yet.
I pose a discussion question to you all. Why are people, so much against the holy trinity in MMOs now. I myself am a healer at heart - always have been, always will be. I am not a DPSer, I find DPSing menial. Once you have mastered a rotation, it always comes down to hitting that rotation and moving around from boss mechanics. Gear and game mechanics (by which I mean how each class is developed) becomes the next big point on who can dish out the most DPS - NOT skill.
I will use WoW as an example (even though I know most here on MMORPG.com are against it) - Elemental Shamans. They have ALWAYS been bad. A best in slot geared Elemental Shaman will NEVER out dps a best in slot geared - Insert Class Here - (especially if both people have equal skill with their rotation)
Games like GW2 took out the holy trinity and gave every class a way to heal themselves, and every class a way to avoid damage. This takes me and people who solely play Tanks, completely out of the equation. Sure I could play Engineer and drop medpac and turrets to help heal, or play a Paladin and attempt to mitigate some damage, but that is not the true place of these classes. This leaves me to play as a DPS, something I have never liked in MMOs - it gets boring quickly for me.
So I will again state the question - Why are people so much against holy trinities? I look forward to reading your answers.
Talint
Play a healer, you do realize there will be roles to perform still. You will get rewarded for your actions and you'll get to enjoy your game experience playing the Role you prefer. The thing is, SOE is not removing Roles only the Trinity so please do not confuse the 2 aspects.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds.
See I can tell you never played EQ.
You are describing a tipical WoW encounter.
In Everquest, trash mobs would wipe entire groups (or Raids), you could not steam roll them like in WoW and whatever MMO came after.
In order to get to the final Boss, you had to manage thrash mobs through carefully pulling, kiting, and CCing, together with a prompt Tank (and therefore healing) intervention if anything else failed.
It was a real Teamwork where everyone had to be aware of what was going on around them and react quickly to other players mistake or risking a painful wipe (with corpse run included, which wasn't fun).
I do not hate the trinity, I don't hate WoW either to be honest, I like to play dps or tank in games that go that route, though I have even been a good healer before (maybe not raid best but people have complemented my healing and that is one good thing about a trinity you do get noticed for your role)
The problem is the deeper mechanics that make way for a trinity. There are some design choices that conflict with the trinity and many of these design choices can be called themepark in nature. Now I also have nothing against themeparks through I have, for a long time, wished an alternative would come out.
I started my Multiplayer Online gaming in MuD's like gemstone IV which do have groups, and do have solid amazing player interactions but never had a trinity, a healer was great but not always needed and tanks were not that big of a thing back then. CC was more of a game mechanic and group buffers you would often go back to town for healing and the healers often gathered in the same spot to heal, it helped they got exp from healing not from being in a group doing damage so they leveled up regardless of if they were in the battle or doing clean up afterwards...same with the resurrection class the clerics...they were two separate classes.
Then came Ultima Online, I dabbled but never played Meridian for any length of time, UO had no trinity, UO had huge PvP and PvE battles...battles on land for castles or just because, battles at sea, just big giant groups...and there were definitely roles in those battles some people were archers some were up close halberd wielders some were mages....but again healing was something you did yourself or ran out of combat to do and then rush back in...this was a result of the UI as much as anything as there was nothing like a raid frame for healers to use and clicking on everyone...one at a time..was beyond useless, generally a healer would just try and heal that one obviously getting hit melee person until he died and then moved to the next one...damage always exceeded healing it seemed. The big deal was who won the battle because that group had time to collect all their stuff.
EQ and WoW were really my first Trinity, this was possible and NECESSARY because of the artificial limitations but on the dungeons back when they came out EQ still had CC and buffers as well but because you could only take 5 people into dungeon X to kill everything you had to have the build for success to do so. In UO or any of the older mud's you could just be higher level or have more people to do a challenge than you did the last time around, or in some games like Gemstone the health didn't reset the moment the battle did so the enemies had to bandage themselves so you could play a game of attrition and hit and run. WoW/EQ style combat stopped a lot of that from being possible. It was really cool when it came out and I had seen nothing like it before no one had.
But here we are over 10 years later and it is still all people are doing, I know it is not the only possibility because I have played games where it wasn't the case and it was fine, I also have played GW2 and while the game is OK I know what people are talking about, it is not really as social as WoW/EQ or those earlier titles, it neither needs the healers or the CC of old MuD's. It is a good game but it seems to loose its shine after a bit because of these weaknesses. It is, and I say this with full experience, not the only non trinity option available.
If you remove level limits on areas, and number of player limits on areas, the WoW/EQ trinity by neccesity becomes less of a must have feature. If you make dungeons non instance or non restricted, and therefore more realistic because no door ever has had a magic "only 5 may enter" ability, then yes things are going to have to change.
Originally posted by spookydom Not against it and never will be. However I do feel it has been done to death, I like the way dev's are beginning to look at new ways for teams to play together in mmo's. If any genre of games needs a little innovation I feel it's the mmorpg. I support new ideas, if they don't work there is a solid foundation to go back to after all.
True.. the typical trinity which anymore is AOE taunt, Heals and AOE dps is boring as hell.. The trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, CC and kiting are in play..
all of that already happens. dps classes have debuffs, everyone has some form of cc, and depending on the fight you're in, you will kite a boss instead of killing it.
WoW has all of that already. And im sure many other games do as well
HUH?
what was it that i said that you found so hard to follow? he said the trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, cc, and kiting are in play. that is already the case. pretty much every dps class has a debuff or two, some having more like warlocks. also all dps/healers/tanks have some form of cc whether it be banish, knock down, stun, sap, mind control, etcetc. and also some fights require you to kite a mob or mobs or even the boss around for a bit less you die in one hit.
I know all that exist in WoW, but no one uses them anymore.. At the time I left WoW, all group combat was AOE kill, kill and kill.. That part is boring.. and IF this Emergent AI is so damn smart.. I say keep the trinity and that will automatically bring in the need to CC, root and more .. I would like fights like that again..
Because playing a Trinity in a group require concentration, awareness and thinking.
People who look for a challenge love all of that.
Not every player look for a challenge when they play games though.............some just want to WIN (Easy and fast if possible)
Awareness? HA. Maybe to an extent but as soon as you know the boss strategy then its not about awareness but timing. For example in 30 secs the center becomes engulfed in fire, so you have to move the boss to the right. Then back to the center in another 30 seconds. If you memorize this then its no longer thinking but following a scripted schedule. Ive tanked in Wow and Rift and paid little to no attention. Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works, but that doesnt stop people from spouting "ZERGING GW2 CLONE LOLOL"
from what you're saying, all thats needed is a bit more randomness in fights then. instead of being scripted to use skills or change of tactics at set parameters, it would go a long way if it was unpredictable. rather than just get rid of the trinity and claim you have a smart ai(which eqn definitely wont have)
How do you know this? Have you played the game? No. So stop stating this as fact.
you make it to easy.
Those questions you asked me, soon as you can answer them yourself so shall i.
I said IF the ai is as smart as they say then the trinity will be obsolete. I never said the AI WILL BE AMAZING. I stated "Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works." So I never stated that the Smart AI is fact. But you stated that the game wont have it as fact.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Holy trinity is a static combat tactic that is dull and boring.
Healer: press 1
Healer press 1
Healer press 1
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Tank: press 1+2+3 to tank
Rest of the lot: DPS DPS DPS DPS
Come play Age of Conan. The real trinity is a fun challenge.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. -Robert E. Howard
Comments
New npc AI is making holy trinity obsolete. The roles can still there, but is not mandatory. In GW2 you can have a Guardian tanking, a Engineer and a Elementalist healing and all the rest dpsing. You can do that you just have to organize with your team mates but its no mandatory like in the old obsolete combat when you stay still playing with your hotbar waiting to someone on vent tell you to move out of the aoe. Those boring long fight will be no more hopefully.
HUH?
You honestly think that?
they could totally randomize a boss or mob his skills tactics etc. what will happen is you will look for early signs to see what he is about to do and act acordingly. It might be random when what happens but evyrhting always has to be scripted.
It depends on what skills are put into the game. It doesn't matter how smart the AI is, a skill like taunt will rendor that AI irrelevant
from what you're saying, all thats needed is a bit more randomness in fights then. instead of being scripted to use skills or change of tactics at set parameters, it would go a long way if it was unpredictable. rather than just get rid of the trinity and claim you have a smart ai(which eqn definitely wont have)
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I don't find spending a few hours watching youtube videos for strategy and then being a trained monkey that pushes buttons all that challenging honestly.
Keeping everyone on the same page is challenging. Having to communicate is challenging. You can do that without Trinity.
Trinity in of itself is not challenging. It's just a game mechanic with defined roles for everyone to take.
In my experience the worst players are the ones that jealously guard trinity more than anyone else.
They want to be needed before being judged on skill. In EQN you will need good players not a crappy player that happens to have a role you need.
Not my comment above. That comes from Dave Georgeson.
I wouldn't say I'm against it as much as I would say that I want something new. This is one of the reasons I'm interested in seeing how EQN's vastly improved AI impacts combat. When you look at a system like GW2, one of the reasons it falls kind of flat is because the combat style changed for the characters, but not much on the mob side. With better mob AI, things could be sufficiently different in EQN, and still allow for people to create builds that put them into support roles if they so desire.
The thing is, the Trinity is predicable. It was better when you also had crowd control because there was that extra dynamic to contend with, but with plain old aggro tanking, it's pretty dumb combat IMO. Just because your tank can stand there and take a beating (with heals) does not make the combat fun or difficult.
BTW, I'm primarily a support player, normally choosing heals or tanking. In Lotro, I loved playing Loremaster because of my CC abilities, and power transfers.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
You described Everquest.................that's why EQ was so memorable and that's why it needs to be rebooted, because it's the only MMO (with Vanguard) who has this kind of Group Layout.
And that's what SoE doesn't get.
what was it that i said that you found so hard to follow? he said the trinity needs to be expanded so that other roles such as debuffing, cc, and kiting are in play. that is already the case. pretty much every dps class has a debuff or two, some having more like warlocks. also all dps/healers/tanks have some form of cc whether it be banish, knock down, stun, sap, mind control, etcetc. and also some fights require you to kite a mob or mobs or even the boss around for a bit less you die in one hit.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Would you like if every restaurant only had the same roast beef on the menu?
Roast beef might even be extremely tasty but if you eat it every day it wont taste as good anymore.
Diversity is good.
If the only thing you can play in a MMORPG is holy trinity, you have dozens of games to choose from.
Action based MMORPGs that use real physics engines without the holy trinity?
Not so much
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Wait.. I"m confused here.. First you say it's ok to "organize" with your team, but then turn around and bash the idea that your team tells you to get out of the AOE?? So you want your team to help or not.. and if the COMBAT is so intense that as a healer you are spending more focus on health bars then fighting.... What does that tell you about EQN's version? Healthbars mean nothing, just zerg zerg zerg.. ?
How do you know this? Have you played the game? No. So stop stating this as fact.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
wrong, its hardly the only mmo that has that kind of group layout. WoW has it too. it was used more back in vanilla WoW up to burning crusade, after that though cc just stopped being used all together because they made dungeons/encounters so damn easy. back in Burning crusade groups HAD to sap and use cc to get through heroic dungeons and even starter groups doing their first dungeon runs while leveling had to use cc or just be extra careful but now its just a zerg mentality.
The layout is still there, its just the encounters are pathetically easy now where its not necessary to use except in some raid fights.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
you make it to easy.
Those questions you asked me, soon as you can answer them yourself so shall i.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
http://www.mmofront.com/games/action-based
il just leave this little link here for ya. They are not all MMORPG's but alot of em are its the NEw thing. or was the new thing its being overdone right now asswell.
id kinda like my rebooted EQ1 we do not have that yet.
WoW CC is uncomparable to Everquest CC. Everquest CC is very specific because of the way mobs are pulled and split in EQ.
Play a healer, you do realize there will be roles to perform still. You will get rewarded for your actions and you'll get to enjoy your game experience playing the Role you prefer. The thing is, SOE is not removing Roles only the Trinity so please do not confuse the 2 aspects.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
See I can tell you never played EQ.
You are describing a tipical WoW encounter.
In Everquest, trash mobs would wipe entire groups (or Raids), you could not steam roll them like in WoW and whatever MMO came after.
In order to get to the final Boss, you had to manage thrash mobs through carefully pulling, kiting, and CCing, together with a prompt Tank (and therefore healing) intervention if anything else failed.
It was a real Teamwork where everyone had to be aware of what was going on around them and react quickly to other players mistake or risking a painful wipe (with corpse run included, which wasn't fun).I do not hate the trinity, I don't hate WoW either to be honest, I like to play dps or tank in games that go that route, though I have even been a good healer before (maybe not raid best but people have complemented my healing and that is one good thing about a trinity you do get noticed for your role)
The problem is the deeper mechanics that make way for a trinity. There are some design choices that conflict with the trinity and many of these design choices can be called themepark in nature. Now I also have nothing against themeparks through I have, for a long time, wished an alternative would come out.
I started my Multiplayer Online gaming in MuD's like gemstone IV which do have groups, and do have solid amazing player interactions but never had a trinity, a healer was great but not always needed and tanks were not that big of a thing back then. CC was more of a game mechanic and group buffers you would often go back to town for healing and the healers often gathered in the same spot to heal, it helped they got exp from healing not from being in a group doing damage so they leveled up regardless of if they were in the battle or doing clean up afterwards...same with the resurrection class the clerics...they were two separate classes.
Then came Ultima Online, I dabbled but never played Meridian for any length of time, UO had no trinity, UO had huge PvP and PvE battles...battles on land for castles or just because, battles at sea, just big giant groups...and there were definitely roles in those battles some people were archers some were up close halberd wielders some were mages....but again healing was something you did yourself or ran out of combat to do and then rush back in...this was a result of the UI as much as anything as there was nothing like a raid frame for healers to use and clicking on everyone...one at a time..was beyond useless, generally a healer would just try and heal that one obviously getting hit melee person until he died and then moved to the next one...damage always exceeded healing it seemed. The big deal was who won the battle because that group had time to collect all their stuff.
EQ and WoW were really my first Trinity, this was possible and NECESSARY because of the artificial limitations but on the dungeons back when they came out EQ still had CC and buffers as well but because you could only take 5 people into dungeon X to kill everything you had to have the build for success to do so. In UO or any of the older mud's you could just be higher level or have more people to do a challenge than you did the last time around, or in some games like Gemstone the health didn't reset the moment the battle did so the enemies had to bandage themselves so you could play a game of attrition and hit and run. WoW/EQ style combat stopped a lot of that from being possible. It was really cool when it came out and I had seen nothing like it before no one had.
But here we are over 10 years later and it is still all people are doing, I know it is not the only possibility because I have played games where it wasn't the case and it was fine, I also have played GW2 and while the game is OK I know what people are talking about, it is not really as social as WoW/EQ or those earlier titles, it neither needs the healers or the CC of old MuD's. It is a good game but it seems to loose its shine after a bit because of these weaknesses. It is, and I say this with full experience, not the only non trinity option available.
If you remove level limits on areas, and number of player limits on areas, the WoW/EQ trinity by neccesity becomes less of a must have feature. If you make dungeons non instance or non restricted, and therefore more realistic because no door ever has had a magic "only 5 may enter" ability, then yes things are going to have to change.
http://www.project1999.org/
I know all that exist in WoW, but no one uses them anymore.. At the time I left WoW, all group combat was AOE kill, kill and kill.. That part is boring.. and IF this Emergent AI is so damn smart.. I say keep the trinity and that will automatically bring in the need to CC, root and more ..
I would like fights like that again..
I said IF the ai is as smart as they say then the trinity will be obsolete. I never said the AI WILL BE AMAZING. I stated "Whose to say this smart AI wont try to flank the group or ambush it? All we can do is speculate. We have no idea how combat works." So I never stated that the Smart AI is fact. But you stated that the game wont have it as fact.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Come play Age of Conan. The real trinity is a fun challenge.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can
be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard