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Brad's response to a "Vanguard was a screwup" poster.

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Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick


    The big thing I take from the poster and even McQuaid's reply is the simple idea that if you let the fans make you Jesus with a title they are going to crucify you later after the inevitable screw up. After all these years, he still hasn't been forgiven. Even politicians get more sympathy in the after public work phase of their life... :)

    I know nothing of nothing about what happened. I do know there is next to no information about this new project. It's an mmorpg, it's going to be hard, there will be dungeons, "you don't have to do the quests", and there is a cleric class. 

     

    I'm thinking about starting my KS too.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    If he's the head and his company's product screws up, isn't it his responsibility?

    I find the 'but it isn't me!' excuse make him even more un-trustworthy. 

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ace80kace80k Member UncommonPosts: 151
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu

    Microsoft pulled out, because they had found out, that despite all the money and all of Brad's promises there was no real game. There was just this old fake demo video that showed all game features and pretended to be life ingame footage. However, it was rendered stuff and there was nobody playing - everything was fake. That was the real reason, why they pulled out.

    Then Brad kept making promisses till release, talked about his vision and that everything would be all right in the end. The crappy game they dared to release was full of bugs and almost unplayable due to big performance issues. Moreover many features lacked polish. Deplomacy was crap. Crafting, housing and ships involved an unbearable amount of tedious farming. Animations were ulgy. Classes unbalanced. Etc.

    But hey, now they want to tell us, that it was a good game. 5 years from now the same people will try to convince us, that Vanguard was one of the greates old-style MMOs of all time^^

     

    That's 100% not true. I was in Vanguard alpha, waaaaaay back when Microsoft's name was still attached to the game. Performance wise, it was practically unplayable, but the amazing game world was in place. I remember exploring the Raki starting area for the first time and being completely blown away.

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Bottom line -

    Vanguard was ambitious well funded game that had some hickups and was released to early.

    Pantheon is un-ambitios small game with minimal funding that really holds no interest at all



  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by pierth   Originally posted by UOlover The replies from people who supposedly know more than Brad are going to be very humerous to read.
      That's something I love dearly about this message board. So many people posting as fact when it's completely based on hearsay (at best!) and conjecture.
    ...or Brad's own words four years ago.

    Link/citation?

  • OlimanOliman Member Posts: 17

    Does know one have a link to the Brad apology from years ago?

    If it was posted on the net, it should be around somewhere.

    "Read Less, More TV." - Dr. House

  • popsicledeathpopsicledeath Member Posts: 108

    I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?

     

    Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!

    According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,740
    Originally posted by ace80k
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu

    Microsoft pulled out, because they had found out, that despite all the money and all of Brad's promises there was no real game. There was just this old fake demo video that showed all game features and pretended to be life ingame footage. However, it was rendered stuff and there was nobody playing - everything was fake. That was the real reason, why they pulled out.

    Then Brad kept making promisses till release, talked about his vision and that everything would be all right in the end. The crappy game they dared to release was full of bugs and almost unplayable due to big performance issues. Moreover many features lacked polish. Deplomacy was crap. Crafting, housing and ships involved an unbearable amount of tedious farming. Animations were ulgy. Classes unbalanced. Etc.

    But hey, now they want to tell us, that it was a good game. 5 years from now the same people will try to convince us, that Vanguard was one of the greates old-style MMOs of all time^^

     

    That's 100% not true. I was in Vanguard alpha, waaaaaay back when Microsoft's name was still attached to the game. Performance wise, it was practically unplayable, but the amazing game world was in place. I remember exploring the Raki starting area for the first time and being completely blown away.

    Yeah, I am starting to doubt these people ever played it.  If those tasks were unbearable, then they must be use to a mmo that just gives you everything, and you max your level in a week or less.  I actually thought the classes were pretty balanced, and I played on the team and ffa pvp servers.  They were fine, up until they stopped working on pvp and worried about pve and made the druid pretty over powered in PvP, with instants.

     

    Good news though, you don't have to wait 5 years, I will tell you now that Vanguard is one of the 5 best old-style mmos of all time.  Figured you would appreciate not having to wait 5 years to be in awe.

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,740
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    Bottom line -

    Vanguard was ambitious well funded game that had some hickups and was released to early.

    Pantheon is un-ambitios small game with minimal funding that really holds no interest at all

    I hope you are wrong, don't want another GW2 for me.  Well, guess that is a lie, I had interest in GW2, until I played it.  I don't think things can get much worse than some of the titles we have been getting.

  • UOloverUOlover Member UncommonPosts: 339
    The Everquest loyalty still trumps all the supposed reasons I should not support him.
  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499

    There's a mind boggling amount of excuses for Vanguard in this thread....

    People will always throw VG back in Brad's face as long as he continues to give partial answers while never actually addressing the big problems(he never addressed them on his website either). For instance:

    -his minimal involvement with designing VG in general and never being in the office??

    -getting almost nothing done with many years and 30million spent before being dropped(which the other guys should have done anyways).

    -of all the publishers in the world to crawl back to he chooses Sony?

    -drug addiction on the job and not sticking around for the firing party in the parking lot?

    -used an ancient game engine for some unknown reason

    -instead of sticking around to fix his disaster he sold the game and ran

    -sporatic lifestyle since then, attempted to make social crapshoot facebook game but failed, went to sony and got bounced around until he finally "left." Hasn't committed to a single thing since Vanguard, why would he now?

    -what exactly makes him even remotely qualified to lead another company when Vanguard clearly showed that isn't his calling?

     

  • OlimanOliman Member Posts: 17

    I really want Pantheon to be awesome, but I also don't like to burn money.

     

    So, went looking for real information about the Vanguard problems (hoping to find old Brad posts).

    What I did find was a couple links to forum posts from a developer on the Vanguard team (Nino). He was posting his thoughts on Vanguard and the team after the sell back to SOE.

    Unfortunately, it looks like the site that was hosting the forums is now owned by Brad or something because it links to the Pantheon KS now. (it was the FOH guild forums)

    It seems strange to me that someone would go through so much trouble to hide old form posts. I assume this was done recently because the KS project just started.

    "Read Less, More TV." - Dr. House

  • William12William12 Member Posts: 680
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

    There's a mind boggling amount of excuses for Vanguard in this thread....

    People will always throw VG back in Brad's face as long as he continues to give partial answers while never actually addressing the big problems(he never addressed them on his website either). For instance:

    -his minimal involvement with designing VG in general and never being in the office??

    -getting almost nothing done with many years and 30million spent before being dropped(which the other guys should have done anyways).

    -of all the publishers in the world to crawl back to he chooses Sony?

    -drug addiction on the job and not sticking around for the firing party in the parking lot?

    -used an ancient game engine for some unknown reason

    -instead of sticking around to fix his disaster he sold the game and ran

    -sporatic lifestyle since then, attempted to make social crapshoot facebook game but failed, went to sony and got bounced around until he finally "left." Hasn't committed to a single thing since Vanguard, why would he now?

    -what exactly makes him even remotely qualified to lead another company when Vanguard clearly showed that isn't his calling?

     

    Having been in the early alpha when VG was with MS he got a lot done with 30m the issue was not content it was the scope and size of his vision.  30m was not enough for what wanted and instead of accepting a smaller game he tried to go big and failed.   With fixing vanguard he had no $ to do it.  The choice was sell to the only company willing to buy it or shut down.  SOE was not going to invest millions into a game that smed did not believe had a market right now it only has a dev team so they can attach it to the station access for the appearance of greater value.  As far as the game engine it uses unreal 2.5 which was not ancient when they started development.  This game was released in Jan 2007 but started development in 2003 at that time the engine was not old.  UE2.5 was released in 2002.

     

    As far as the personal questions no one will ever know.

  • oubersoubers Member UncommonPosts: 855

    This thread make me laugh:

    Prolly half the people here reacting to Vanguard didn't play the game or left very early on after launch and never looked back.

    As an old school mmo player (not talking wow, but UO old school) i can honestly say that vanguards was one of the best try's in making an 3D mmoRPG after EQ en UO.

    It had flaws:

    - lag and rubberbanding (last time i try'd it it was fixed)

    - bugged quests (some where still not fixed last time i logged in Vanguard, damn shame).

    - empty world (and thats not even a real bug).

    - needed more patches

    - needed housing

     

    It also had alot of good things:

    - No cash shops

    - Realy amazing gathering and crafting system

    - player driven economy

    - a FRIENDLY community

    - a LARGE open world

    - open dungeons

    - flying mobs and spiders on sealings and walls

    - original classes (disciple anyone, a kungfu fighting healer....how awesome is that huh?)

    - Combo's when using skills in a particular order.

    - mounts at low lvl (just a small + imho).

    So imho this game was one of the best mmorpg's out there at that time, if it had been given more love from the devs it could have been an mmorpg that even lasted untill today.

    so dont diss vanguard just because its cool......even today the mmo's lack alot of options that vanguards already had back in those days.

    all it needed was some lovin.....but the company's tought different because everything get compared to the big moneymaker WOW.

     

     

    image
  • William12William12 Member Posts: 680

    I will add this if you go play vanguard today its a fun game and if it had the players WOW had it would easily be rated one of the top MMOs the dungeons are massive and part of the world they truly are MASSIVE.  The game world is epic and amazing.   The problem that faces it today is players.  

     

    If someone would of invested another year into development this game would be one of the best MMOs ever. 

  • slikeytreslikeytre Member UncommonPosts: 40
    Can we just all agree on one thing... At least Pantheon won't be a WOW Clone?  Like sure Vanguard was fail but coming back to make a game for those who still wish for the old model and go unheard, this is an answer.  If it's anything close to what EQ was i'm sure we can all look the other way with vanguard....  And on one note the Monk class was amazingly fun in EQ and Vanguard, i didn't regret buying Vanguard just hated the low population a few months after launch.  But yea come on cut him some slack and give him a chance.
  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499

    Graffe managed to archive the only interview Brad gave right after most of Sigil was fired in a parking lot. The original interview has been deleted, it's worth a read if you're interested:

     

    http://www.graffe.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-49995.html?s=5e594208e1d7fa31af735b99c42f3fbe

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

    I just honestly wish that alot of these clowns stop trying to save us.

     

    What makes it worse is that I'm sure most of them have uninspired hamster wheel grindy trash on their hard drives.

     

     

    Optimzation issues aside no modern mmo can hold a candle to Vanguard's game design, world, crafting sytems, races and classes. Not one.

    But sure SWTOR, GW2, Wildtar and EZ mode WoW are better games than Vanguard right?

     

    Please....

     

    Did the game need more time? Absolutely, but its a damn shame that a so called drug addict made a better mmo RPG than any other on the market right now and the game wasn't even damn finished.

    And for anyone who is in the TESO beta you know damn well that TESO ain't better than Vanguard is as a game otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Look at yourself in a mirror when you lie to yourself to say it is.

    Now just imagine what this guy can do if  he stays clean and focused.

    Invest

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    I just honestly wish that alot of these clowns stop trying to save us.

     

    What makes it worse is that I'm sure most of them have uninspired hamster wheel grindy trash on their hard drives.

     

     

    Optimzation issues aside no modern mmo can hold a candle to Vanguard's game design, world, crafting sytems, races and classes. Not one.

    But sure SWTOR, GW2, Wildtar and EZ mode WoW are better games than Vanguard right?

     

    Please....

     

    Did the game need more time? Absolutely, but its a damn shame that a so called drug addict made a better mmo RPG than any other on the market right now and the game wasn't even damn finished.

    And for anyone who is in the TESO beta you know damn well that TESO ain't better than Vanguard is as a game otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    Now just imagine if he stays clean and focused.

    Invest

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments

    Have you even played Vanguard since Sony bought it? Vangaurd is the definition of a hampster wheel grind.  You solo all the way to 55 from quest hubs and gear grind after that. Sound familiar? I'll give you a hint, the familiarity is not from EQ classic.......

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    I just honestly wish that alot of these clowns stop trying to save us.

     

    What makes it worse is that I'm sure most of them have uninspired hamster wheel grindy trash on their hard drives.

     

     

    Optimzation issues aside no modern mmo can hold a candle to Vanguard's game design, world, crafting sytems, races and classes. Not one.

    But sure SWTOR, GW2, Wildtar and EZ mode WoW are better games than Vanguard right?

     

    Please....

     

    Did the game need more time? Absolutely, but its a damn shame that a so called drug addict made a better mmo RPG than any other on the market right now and the game wasn't even damn finished.

    And for anyone who is in the TESO beta you know damn well that TESO ain't better than Vanguard is as a game otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    Now just imagine if he stays clean and focused.

    Invest

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments

    Have you even played Vanguard since Sony bought it? Vangaurd is the definition of a hampster wheel grind.  You solo all the way to 55 from quest hubs and gear grind after that. Sound familiar? I'll give you a hint, the familiarity is not from EQ classic.......

    Yes I have, have you?  I also loved the classes, races, world size, crafting, building boats and the dungeon sizes.

     

    Now tell me what mmorpg you are spending your time on please. Tell me what -better- game you are playing right now.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • funyahnsfunyahns Member Posts: 315
     There were a lot of problems with Vanguard.  It also had a ton of potential and was a beautiful full world.  At least Vanguard failed from trying to do to much than being overly generic.  If the world had players and was getting expansions it would be amazing.  But, being as its virtually empty it is almost impossible to get groups to do the late mid game stuff.   Still I would play Vanguard over SwToR, Secret World, Conan and Elder Scrolls.  Brad messed up and admits it.
  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499
    Originally posted by Maquiame
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    I just honestly wish that alot of these clowns stop trying to save us.

     

    What makes it worse is that I'm sure most of them have uninspired hamster wheel grindy trash on their hard drives.

     

     

    Optimzation issues aside no modern mmo can hold a candle to Vanguard's game design, world, crafting sytems, races and classes. Not one.

    But sure SWTOR, GW2, Wildtar and EZ mode WoW are better games than Vanguard right?

     

    Please....

     

    Did the game need more time? Absolutely, but its a damn shame that a so called drug addict made a better mmo RPG than any other on the market right now and the game wasn't even damn finished.

    And for anyone who is in the TESO beta you know damn well that TESO ain't better than Vanguard is as a game otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    Now just imagine if he stays clean and focused.

    Invest

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments

    Have you even played Vanguard since Sony bought it? Vangaurd is the definition of a hampster wheel grind.  You solo all the way to 55 from quest hubs and gear grind after that. Sound familiar? I'll give you a hint, the familiarity is not from EQ classic.......

    Yes I have, have you?  I also loved the classes, races, world size, crafting, building boats and the dungeon sizes.

     

    Now tell me what mmorpg you are spending your time on please. Tell me what -better- game you are playing right now.

     

    "I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.

    I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.

    Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by Maquiame
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    I just honestly wish that alot of these clowns stop trying to save us.

     

    What makes it worse is that I'm sure most of them have uninspired hamster wheel grindy trash on their hard drives.

     

     

    Optimzation issues aside no modern mmo can hold a candle to Vanguard's game design, world, crafting sytems, races and classes. Not one.

    But sure SWTOR, GW2, Wildtar and EZ mode WoW are better games than Vanguard right?

     

    Please....

     

    Did the game need more time? Absolutely, but its a damn shame that a so called drug addict made a better mmo RPG than any other on the market right now and the game wasn't even damn finished.

    And for anyone who is in the TESO beta you know damn well that TESO ain't better than Vanguard is as a game otherwise I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    Now just imagine if he stays clean and focused.

    Invest

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments

    Have you even played Vanguard since Sony bought it? Vangaurd is the definition of a hampster wheel grind.  You solo all the way to 55 from quest hubs and gear grind after that. Sound familiar? I'll give you a hint, the familiarity is not from EQ classic.......

    Yes I have, have you?  I also loved the classes, races, world size, crafting, building boats and the dungeon sizes.

     

    Now tell me what mmorpg you are spending your time on please. Tell me what -better- game you are playing right now.

     

    "I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.

    I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.

    Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.

    Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.

     

    Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......If you abandoned the genre why not abandon forums like this too if you truly were not interested? Or does it bother you that people still have hope? That's a pretty nasty thing if that were true, which apparently it might be.

     

    Why should anyone consider the words of someone who abandoned the genre and is just basically on forums to dump dirt in threads? Says alot about you as a person honestly, especially when you could be wasting your time doing something that you like.

     

    See for me I still like the genre, I am going to support it. If I didn't like it anymore I certainly wouldn't hang out on forums talking about how much I have no faith in it. I don't play fighting games anymore because I don't like the genre. So I stay off the Shoryuken forums because well its a waste of my time and my life.

    And besides

     

    I'd rather play games than play forums.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499

     

    "I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.

    I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.

    Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.

    Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.

     

    Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......

    Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, your argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"

    You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.

    A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

     

    "I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.

    I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.

    Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.

    Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.

     

    Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......

    Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, you're argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"

    You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.

    A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.

    I throw my money at projects that I like. My money does not go to companies like EA, Anet, and others who are making the videogame version of "Groundhog Day"

    And like I said if I truly didn't wan't to be bothered with the genre I certainly wouldn't be here trying to save so called drones like me good sir. Hell being the guy who fusses at the drones for being drones is more pathetic than being a drone itself. 

     

    Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

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