I'd guess that Microsoft's experiance with developers like McQuaid, Chris Roberts, etc, got them to shy away from the games development side of things. Flakey productions with money vanishing into something other than the games can do that sort of thing.
Releasing high profile, buggy, unfinished games is a sure fire way to disaster. Partially due to fickle gamers, it's still a reality. Few games recover from that. If they'd released Vanguard as it is now, the story would probably be quite different. But having helmed such a disaster, you have to convince folks you're beyond that, you know, if you are asking for up front crowdsourced money.
I wish they had the same attitude towards operating systems that they supposedly had towards their games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
look at MS since said Regime change. MS is going into the toilet in almost everything they touch and the troubles started right around this time.
The guy made some mistakes with the deployment of the game but the over all design is something that is still better than many of the grinders released on the market today.
If you're trying to make a point about Brad screwing up not being worthy I'm not buying it. The good news is a kick starter crowd funded game will remove one very important and crappy piece from the puzzle: Crappy producers who have no creative talent at all.
Some more interesting reading concerning the trainwreck of Brad's.
He might make a good game this time around, but I'd be damned if I would give him one red cent to do it.
You are taking this article as fact when it's nothing more than wild rumors and speculation. I mean the person is actually writing things like, "The story had always been that Sony had tried to teach Smed a lesson about working with his loser friends by actually hiring some of them to do Everquest." and you actually feel this article has any credibility with ridiculous statements like that?
Dont take it as fact...but in my time on the internets, I find these kinds of rants usually have at least, a tinge of truth to them. EALouse called it on SWTOR 2 years before release as well.
I simply post it here because it was knowledge shared alot back then and I dont see him refuting it at all, and I would think there is enough there to file a defamation lawsuit or at least a cease/desist letter. Brad is in the corporate world, so anything he says is suspect, as the whole point of corporatese (my word, I invented it).... is to say....I screwed up in such a way as to make it sound like it was a good thing and deserving of a raise.
So again, he may make a good game this time, but I wouldnt give him a single penny before hand on his reputation alone.
I think its funny that a lot of people in this thread hang their hopes on McQuaid because he did a good job on EQ, but then don't understand why other people don't, because he did a poor job on Vanguard.
If anything, he should get more blame for Vanguard (because he was "in charge") than credit for EQ, where he had a smaller role (there were others that largely contributed to the success of that game).
When your name is on the big door and things go well, you get the credit, and when they don't (and your company/product goes under) you get the blame.
So, in the end, it comes down to reputation, when asking people for "free money".
And this guy's reputation, both for work and on the personal side, is none too good at this point.
I will be keeping my money in my pocket, and if, on some day in the far future, a good game is released, I'll buy.
Some more interesting reading concerning the trainwreck of Brad's.
He might make a good game this time around, but I'd be damned if I would give him one red cent to do it.
You are taking this article as fact when it's nothing more than wild rumors and speculation. I mean the person is actually writing things like, "The story had always been that Sony had tried to teach Smed a lesson about working with his loser friends by actually hiring some of them to do Everquest." and you actually feel this article has any credibility with ridiculous statements like that?
Dont take it as fact...but in my time on the internets, I find these kinds of rants usually have at least, a tinge of truth to them. EALouse called it on SWTOR 2 years before release as well.
I simply post it here because it was knowledge shared alot back then and I dont see him refuting it at all, and I would think there is enough there to file a defamation lawsuit or at least a cease/desist letter. Brad is in the corporate world, so anything he says is suspect, as the whole point of corporatese (my word, I invented it).... is to say....I screwed up in such a way as to make it sound like it was a good thing and deserving of a raise.
So again, he may make a good game this time, but I wouldnt give him a single penny before hand on his reputation alone.
Understandable, Mcquaid's reputation certainly works against him as much as it works for him. There are other people working on the project though, and McQuaid is promising to hire a CEO for the business side of things and act only as a CCO and he seems to acknowledge a lot of mistakes so for me I'm willing to bet on this one.
Originally posted by evilastro You are confusing excuse with explanation.
No I am not, You see them as explanations and I see them as excuses to his failed product. It is all in how the reader interprets it and you cannot tell me how I interpret it. There is no right or wrong.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Is he not posting on this site? Seems like he is avoiding the bigger sites. Needs to start getting some interviews and vids out with sites like this and massively. Would reach a bigger audience.
Microsoft pulled out, because they had found out, that despite all the money and all of Brad's promises there was no real game. There was just this old fake demo video that showed all game features and pretended to be life ingame footage. However, it was rendered stuff and there was nobody playing - everything was fake. That was the real reason, why they pulled out.
Then Brad kept making promisses till release, talked about his vision and that everything would be all right in the end. The crappy game they dared to release was full of bugs and almost unplayable due to big performance issues. Moreover many features lacked polish. Deplomacy was crap. Crafting, housing and ships involved an unbearable amount of tedious farming. Animations were ulgy. Classes unbalanced. Etc.
But hey, now they want to tell us, that it was a good game. 5 years from now the same people will try to convince us, that Vanguard was one of the greates old-style MMOs of all time^^
Considering that I was in closed beta long before MS pulled out, I think I'd take you commentary with a grain of salt. It was Nov 2005 when I got in closed beta and there were many people who were in long before me.
Vanguard was far from a bad game. The population decline it saw after release had more to do with the bugs and lack of optimization than anything else. And, yes, I was there. From day 1. Even many who left disgruntled but gave it a second look after SoE applied some polish agree that it's an excellent game and one of the very few games that still give a bit of that old school EQ feeling.
Speaking of, you can ride the Vanguard argument as long as you'd like, but you're ignoring that Brad played a central role in creating Everquest, the very game that, for many of us, provided an experience no other game that came after could quite capture. The goal of this new project is to create a modern mmo that brings back the things that made EQ and others such amazing experiences. I say experiences because thats what EQ delivered. You didn't just play it, you experienced it with your friends (many newly made from within the exceptional community). I've literally had hours long conversations with strangers in the chat of newer mmo's about all the amazing times we each had in EQ. It would probably take me hours to come up with just a couple amazing experiences that I've had in many of the "blockbusters," and even some smaller titles, that I've played since. I've rambled all of that to say, don't write off Brad's ability to create an exceptional game. And don't let copious amounts of rumor and speculation of truth with regard to Vanguard push you away from giving this project a few bucks (or more! /nudge /nudge) . If you're someone who's been craving the kind of old school, immersive, challenging, rewarding experience you once felt in those older games, you owe it to yourself to at least read some of the information about the game, watch the Q&A videos, and make your own decision.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
And yet you are here?
I don't think you've abandoned it as much as you think you have.
As far as vanguard goes, one doesn't have to do quests. I still play and I rarely take quests, just explore, fight my way to new places, etc.
I swear "gamers" are their own worst enemy.
Ding ding ding!!
Said it many times, myself... and I agree completely, Sov. Many gamers - especially MMO gamers - behave like someone repeatedly running face-first into a wall. They'll immediately blame the wall when their nose gets broken, but never themselves for running into it.
As for the topic, I'd totally play something with Brad McQuaid behind it. The guy has an awesome creative mind, and he creates the kinds of games I want to play. Vanguard, for all its warts, is/was a great game mired in troubled development. EQ1 is... well... EQ1. The key, I think, is to put him in a position where creativity is best channeled and focused - that is, in a creative role, not a managerial one.
I feel the same about David Allen ("Horizons" era David Allen, not "Alganon" era David Allen). A person who can dream up a world as deep and detailed as he did for Horizons could certainly come up with a design for a game I'd like to play. But again, he needs to remain in a role where he's playing to his strengths - a creative, not managerial one.
Originally posted by Sajman01 He made bad decisions, we all make bad decisions. He's still the person most responsible for building EQ.
I'll give him another chance.
Vanguards failure is all a "he said, she said" but this comment reigns true for me as well. Any man responsible for EQ has my support in future endeavors. The responsibility of Vanguard's failure is irrelevant at this point, because no matter whose fault it was, Brad learned A LOT from it.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
I wish he still had his website post up. He had made a 4 page resposne to entirely what happened with Vanguard, and he did absolutely take responsibility for it. He aslo said they had too much "vision" for lack of a better word. They wanted 3 continents all filled with content and anybody who played VG knew pretty much one continent was about 90% done, the other about 70% and the third continent was maybe 25% complete.
But he is asbolutely right about MS. Microsoft was doing a lot of restructuring in their game division back in that time period, i remember because they canned a lot of sequels to other games, like not making an age of empires 3 for example.
This all supports exactly what he was saying that they basically got "suited" by Microsoft trying to basically pull a WoW on them and make the game into something it was never meant to be to try to pull some of that WOW pie.
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, I'm not gonna read the whole thread to find out:
It has been claimed Microsoft pulled out because they caught Brad in presenting a fake demo that had absolutely nothing to do with the real product, both to present what they thought MS wanted to see (to get more money), and to cover up that they were nowhere near the deadlines. I've seen this claimed on many websites, but have never seen Brad commenting on it.
Another popular claim, is that the released version was rapidly made in less than a year, and there's been a lot of speculations about what really went on the first years.
Originally posted by Sajman01 He made bad decisions, we all make bad decisions. He's still the person most responsible for building EQ.
I'll give him another chance.
Vanguards failure is all a "he said, she said" but this comment reigns true for me as well. Any man responsible for EQ has my support in future endeavors. The responsibility of Vanguard's failure is irrelevant at this point, because no matter whose fault it was, Brad learned A LOT from it.
^ This.
Someone also mentioned earlier that it seems we all praise him for his part in creating EQ but forget about the Vanguard debacle. However, as Daranar mentions, the controversy over Vanguard is largely based on rumor and there is very little that we can be certain is factual. What we can be certain of, is his contribution to not only EQ, but to the mmo industry as a whole through EQ and subsequent projects. And, honestly, if it IS true that the released Vanguard product was "rapidly made in less than a year" I'd be even more excited to see what they can produce in 3.
Originally posted by Sajman01 He made bad decisions, we all make bad decisions. He's still the person most responsible for building EQ.
I'll give him another chance.
Vanguards failure is all a "he said, she said" but this comment reigns true for me as well. Any man responsible for EQ has my support in future endeavors. The responsibility of Vanguard's failure is irrelevant at this point, because no matter whose fault it was, Brad learned A LOT from it.
Then McQuaid can prove that by making a "good" quality MMO without begging free money from people.
If his ideas are good, he can get financing. If they aren't, no one will give him financing.
Instead he is trying to squeeze money from former fanbois to pay for some demo that will be used to generate interest to get further financing.
Microsoft pulled out, because they had found out, that despite all the money and all of Brad's promises there was no real game. There was just this old fake demo video that showed all game features and pretended to be life ingame footage. However, it was rendered stuff and there was nobody playing - everything was fake. That was the real reason, why they pulled out.
Then Brad kept making promisses till release, talked about his vision and that everything would be all right in the end. The crappy game they dared to release was full of bugs and almost unplayable due to big performance issues. Moreover many features lacked polish. Deplomacy was crap. Crafting, housing and ships involved an unbearable amount of tedious farming. Animations were ulgy. Classes unbalanced. Etc.
But hey, now they want to tell us, that it was a good game. 5 years from now the same people will try to convince us, that Vanguard was one of the greates old-style MMOs of all time^^
Considering that I was in closed beta long before MS pulled out, I think I'd take you commentary with a grain of salt. It was Nov 2005 when I got in closed beta and there were many people who were in long before me.
^THIS. I too was in beta long before MS pulled out. Hell, I was in that game before it had any combat mechanics at all.
Microsoft pulled out, because they had found out, that despite all the money and all of Brad's promises there was no real game. There was just this old fake demo video that showed all game features and pretended to be life ingame footage. However, it was rendered stuff and there was nobody playing - everything was fake. That was the real reason, why they pulled out.
Then Brad kept making promisses till release, talked about his vision and that everything would be all right in the end. The crappy game they dared to release was full of bugs and almost unplayable due to big performance issues. Moreover many features lacked polish. Deplomacy was crap. Crafting, housing and ships involved an unbearable amount of tedious farming. Animations were ulgy. Classes unbalanced. Etc.
But hey, now they want to tell us, that it was a good game. 5 years from now the same people will try to convince us, that Vanguard was one of the greates old-style MMOs of all time^^
Considering that I was in closed beta long before MS pulled out, I think I'd take you commentary with a grain of salt. It was Nov 2005 when I got in closed beta and there were many people who were in long before me.
I love that people can literally pull things entirely out of their ass and it gets distributed as gospel on these forums. Not even rerolled.org allows that kind of stupidity to fester on its forums. But hey. What can you do. The sad part is these people actually trick themselves into believing their lies are true.
edit: just FYI laserit im responding to mahavishnu, not your post.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Originally posted by Sajman01 He made bad decisions, we all make bad decisions. He's still the person most responsible for building EQ.
I'll give him another chance.
Vanguards failure is all a "he said, she said" but this comment reigns true for me as well. Any man responsible for EQ has my support in future endeavors. The responsibility of Vanguard's failure is irrelevant at this point, because no matter whose fault it was, Brad learned A LOT from it.
Then McQuaid can prove that by making a "good" quality MMO without begging free money from people.
If his ideas are good, he can get financing. If they aren't, no one will give him financing.
Instead he is trying to squeeze money from former fanbois to pay for some demo that will be used to generate interest to get further financing.
How about: no.
If I want to, I'll buy the game when it exists.
There is a flaw in your logic, sir, and that lies in the very basics of investor interest. Investors don't fund projects they aren't sure they can make a nice return on. Backers on kickstarter are mostly people within the audience targeted by the scope of this game. They state very clearly that this is a niche game and intends to bring back that old school feel and challenge. Something that differs substantially from the current copy/paste model the grand majority of MMOs have been following in an attempt to cash in on the model that WoW helped create years ago. I think anyone would find it difficult to convince investors or a large publisher to fund their project when it isn't following the river of money flowing from the pockets of the drooling horde of players waiting for a next gen WoW. Aside from the obvious bit of funding it will provide, the Kickstarter will also show potential investors/publishers that there is a place for this niche game, and a return to be made.
That poster can be accurate in saying it was buggy,but NOTHING else is the truth,Vanguard was oen of the top 5 games over the last 15 years based on the product not bugs.
Wow for example has TONS more money to fund a better product but does NOT put that into the product.Blizzard releases buggy products all the time,Wow expansions have been at times laughable they were so buggy,maybe not as bad as SOE but still real bad.Right before the Pandarin release they even had to shut down the forums because word got out they rekleased total crap ,maps were glitching all over the place,tons of ROMs and BSP holes just a brutally rushed product and that after having BETA test servers before releasing.
SO to narrow down buggy releases JUST top VG is childish,we have all seen tons of bugs in games.You take away the bugs and VG was arguably the most complete game WITH BETTER graphics than ANYTHING on the market.
I will ALWAYS argue that FFXI has the most content and depth but VG did a LOT of things real well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I also don't understand how anyone can believe the "the game was made rapidly in less than 1 year" rumor that keeps floating around either. So 100 people at Sigil sat there and did absolutely nothing for 4 years?
Originally posted by AIMonster I also don't understand how anyone can believe the "the game was made rapidly in less than 1 year" rumor that keeps floating around either. So 100 people at Sigil sat there and did absolutely nothing for 4 years?
Compared to some of the things people have argued, and believed, without hesitation around here? That's a no brainer.
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
If I recall correctly, MS was still involved when we started early beta. Those in early beta can attest to the fact that there was a game there. We didn't suddenly build an MMO in 6-9 months. 'Nothing done' couldn't be further from the truth -- we had a game in late alpha/early beta that was a product of the team working very hard for 4 years at the time.
All that said, I made plenty of errors with Vanguard which I've talked about in the past. Ultimately the buck stops here with me. All I can say is that I learned a lot, and learned a lot about myself. If I don't rise up and take what I've learned and make another game, then truly the Vanguard development process beat me. I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
I spent enough of my life playing EQ that for me not to pledge would be the greatest betrayal ever. That joy should command loyalty in everyone that ever played the game.
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
If I recall correctly, MS was still involved when we started early beta. Those in early beta can attest to the fact that there was a game there. We didn't suddenly build an MMO in 6-9 months. 'Nothing done' couldn't be further from the truth -- we had a game in late alpha/early beta that was a product of the team working very hard for 4 years at the time.
All that said, I made plenty of errors with Vanguard which I've talked about in the past. Ultimately the buck stops here with me. All I can say is that I learned a lot, and learned a lot about myself. If I don't rise up and take what I've learned and make another game, then truly the Vanguard development process beat me. I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
You're either in or out after reading this.. If you're out, come revisit when the game hits open beta. We will help make it awesome for you folks.. But hopefully these guys win you over before the KS ends. This really is an old school community effort and personality I believe these guys are very capable of creating an amazing game. The more backers the more we tell the suits controlling this industry what we want.
I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?
Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!
Good luck,
I honestly don't expect much from brad and those wanting a better vanguard or even EQ I think will be disappointed but that's just my opinion
Comments
I wish they had the same attitude towards operating systems that they supposedly had towards their games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
look at MS since said Regime change. MS is going into the toilet in almost everything they touch and the troubles started right around this time.
The guy made some mistakes with the deployment of the game but the over all design is something that is still better than many of the grinders released on the market today.
If you're trying to make a point about Brad screwing up not being worthy I'm not buying it. The good news is a kick starter crowd funded game will remove one very important and crappy piece from the puzzle: Crappy producers who have no creative talent at all.
Dont take it as fact...but in my time on the internets, I find these kinds of rants usually have at least, a tinge of truth to them. EALouse called it on SWTOR 2 years before release as well.
I simply post it here because it was knowledge shared alot back then and I dont see him refuting it at all, and I would think there is enough there to file a defamation lawsuit or at least a cease/desist letter. Brad is in the corporate world, so anything he says is suspect, as the whole point of corporatese (my word, I invented it).... is to say....I screwed up in such a way as to make it sound like it was a good thing and deserving of a raise.
So again, he may make a good game this time, but I wouldnt give him a single penny before hand on his reputation alone.
Summed it up perfectly!
Understandable, Mcquaid's reputation certainly works against him as much as it works for him. There are other people working on the project though, and McQuaid is promising to hire a CEO for the business side of things and act only as a CCO and he seems to acknowledge a lot of mistakes so for me I'm willing to bet on this one.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Considering that I was in closed beta long before MS pulled out, I think I'd take you commentary with a grain of salt. It was Nov 2005 when I got in closed beta and there were many people who were in long before me.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Vanguard was far from a bad game. The population decline it saw after release had more to do with the bugs and lack of optimization than anything else. And, yes, I was there. From day 1. Even many who left disgruntled but gave it a second look after SoE applied some polish agree that it's an excellent game and one of the very few games that still give a bit of that old school EQ feeling.
Speaking of, you can ride the Vanguard argument as long as you'd like, but you're ignoring that Brad played a central role in creating Everquest, the very game that, for many of us, provided an experience no other game that came after could quite capture. The goal of this new project is to create a modern mmo that brings back the things that made EQ and others such amazing experiences. I say experiences because thats what EQ delivered. You didn't just play it, you experienced it with your friends (many newly made from within the exceptional community). I've literally had hours long conversations with strangers in the chat of newer mmo's about all the amazing times we each had in EQ. It would probably take me hours to come up with just a couple amazing experiences that I've had in many of the "blockbusters," and even some smaller titles, that I've played since. I've rambled all of that to say, don't write off Brad's ability to create an exceptional game. And don't let copious amounts of rumor and speculation of truth with regard to Vanguard push you away from giving this project a few bucks (or more! /nudge /nudge) . If you're someone who's been craving the kind of old school, immersive, challenging, rewarding experience you once felt in those older games, you owe it to yourself to at least read some of the information about the game, watch the Q&A videos, and make your own decision.
Ding ding ding!!
Said it many times, myself... and I agree completely, Sov. Many gamers - especially MMO gamers - behave like someone repeatedly running face-first into a wall. They'll immediately blame the wall when their nose gets broken, but never themselves for running into it.
As for the topic, I'd totally play something with Brad McQuaid behind it. The guy has an awesome creative mind, and he creates the kinds of games I want to play. Vanguard, for all its warts, is/was a great game mired in troubled development. EQ1 is... well... EQ1. The key, I think, is to put him in a position where creativity is best channeled and focused - that is, in a creative role, not a managerial one.
I feel the same about David Allen ("Horizons" era David Allen, not "Alganon" era David Allen). A person who can dream up a world as deep and detailed as he did for Horizons could certainly come up with a design for a game I'd like to play. But again, he needs to remain in a role where he's playing to his strengths - a creative, not managerial one.
Vanguards failure is all a "he said, she said" but this comment reigns true for me as well. Any man responsible for EQ has my support in future endeavors. The responsibility of Vanguard's failure is irrelevant at this point, because no matter whose fault it was, Brad learned A LOT from it.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, I'm not gonna read the whole thread to find out:
It has been claimed Microsoft pulled out because they caught Brad in presenting a fake demo that had absolutely nothing to do with the real product, both to present what they thought MS wanted to see (to get more money), and to cover up that they were nowhere near the deadlines. I've seen this claimed on many websites, but have never seen Brad commenting on it.
Another popular claim, is that the released version was rapidly made in less than a year, and there's been a lot of speculations about what really went on the first years.
^ This.
Someone also mentioned earlier that it seems we all praise him for his part in creating EQ but forget about the Vanguard debacle. However, as Daranar mentions, the controversy over Vanguard is largely based on rumor and there is very little that we can be certain is factual. What we can be certain of, is his contribution to not only EQ, but to the mmo industry as a whole through EQ and subsequent projects. And, honestly, if it IS true that the released Vanguard product was "rapidly made in less than a year" I'd be even more excited to see what they can produce in 3.
Then McQuaid can prove that by making a "good" quality MMO without begging free money from people.
If his ideas are good, he can get financing. If they aren't, no one will give him financing.
Instead he is trying to squeeze money from former fanbois to pay for some demo that will be used to generate interest to get further financing.
How about: no.
If I want to, I'll buy the game when it exists.
^THIS. I too was in beta long before MS pulled out. Hell, I was in that game before it had any combat mechanics at all.
I love that people can literally pull things entirely out of their ass and it gets distributed as gospel on these forums. Not even rerolled.org allows that kind of stupidity to fester on its forums. But hey. What can you do. The sad part is these people actually trick themselves into believing their lies are true.
edit: just FYI laserit im responding to mahavishnu, not your post.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
There is a flaw in your logic, sir, and that lies in the very basics of investor interest. Investors don't fund projects they aren't sure they can make a nice return on. Backers on kickstarter are mostly people within the audience targeted by the scope of this game. They state very clearly that this is a niche game and intends to bring back that old school feel and challenge. Something that differs substantially from the current copy/paste model the grand majority of MMOs have been following in an attempt to cash in on the model that WoW helped create years ago. I think anyone would find it difficult to convince investors or a large publisher to fund their project when it isn't following the river of money flowing from the pockets of the drooling horde of players waiting for a next gen WoW. Aside from the obvious bit of funding it will provide, the Kickstarter will also show potential investors/publishers that there is a place for this niche game, and a return to be made.
That poster can be accurate in saying it was buggy,but NOTHING else is the truth,Vanguard was oen of the top 5 games over the last 15 years based on the product not bugs.
Wow for example has TONS more money to fund a better product but does NOT put that into the product.Blizzard releases buggy products all the time,Wow expansions have been at times laughable they were so buggy,maybe not as bad as SOE but still real bad.Right before the Pandarin release they even had to shut down the forums because word got out they rekleased total crap ,maps were glitching all over the place,tons of ROMs and BSP holes just a brutally rushed product and that after having BETA test servers before releasing.
SO to narrow down buggy releases JUST top VG is childish,we have all seen tons of bugs in games.You take away the bugs and VG was arguably the most complete game WITH BETTER graphics than ANYTHING on the market.
I will ALWAYS argue that FFXI has the most content and depth but VG did a LOT of things real well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Compared to some of the things people have argued, and believed, without hesitation around here? That's a no brainer.
If I recall correctly, MS was still involved when we started early beta. Those in early beta can attest to the fact that there was a game there. We didn't suddenly build an MMO in 6-9 months. 'Nothing done' couldn't be further from the truth -- we had a game in late alpha/early beta that was a product of the team working very hard for 4 years at the time.
All that said, I made plenty of errors with Vanguard which I've talked about in the past. Ultimately the buck stops here with me. All I can say is that I learned a lot, and learned a lot about myself. If I don't rise up and take what I've learned and make another game, then truly the Vanguard development process beat me. I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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I spent enough of my life playing EQ that for me not to pledge would be the greatest betrayal ever. That joy should command loyalty in everyone that ever played the game.
You're either in or out after reading this.. If you're out, come revisit when the game hits open beta. We will help make it awesome for you folks.. But hopefully these guys win you over before the KS ends. This really is an old school community effort and personality I believe these guys are very capable of creating an amazing game. The more backers the more we tell the suits controlling this industry what we want.
Good luck,
I honestly don't expect much from brad and those wanting a better vanguard or even EQ I think will be disappointed but that's just my opinion