I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?
Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!
Even Brad admitted he wasn't around in the later stages of Vanguard he stated he was busy trying to get more funding instead. So Vanguard love it or hate it wasn't his work the design programming and development was the work of the people Brad had canned in the parking lot.
30 million went a lot further back then then it does now a days. So 30 million back then and 5 years got Vanguard a game even the fans agree was buggy and rushed to release.
Now Brad states with 800K which certainly won't go as far as it did in Vanguards creation days and only 3 years he can make a MMO that won't be a buggy rushed out the door disaster?
Sure we know brad says he will get more money from other sources either repeated kickstarters or other ways but if he didn't have much luck getting funding for Vangard after MS pulled out how much luck do you really think he''ll have these days with his rep?
Its been over a week and the Kickstarter has had plenty of time to be announced and news spread yet with it still has less then 2k backers. While it does look like it can make its 800K goals it doesn't appear that even with outside funds and further backing it will be more then a shell of a game with few races/classes and no crafting/pvp or other basics that they have made multimillion dollar stretch goals.
Wish you Brad fans luck, it would be nice if this game was released even if it sounds too me like just a money grab for a recently laid off from SOE/EQ Brad. (Gee I wonder if SOE had him meet with them in the parking lot when they gave him the pink slip. Would have been poetic justice or maybe just plain Karma)
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
I wish he still had his website post up. He had made a 4 page resposne to entirely what happened with Vanguard, and he did absolutely take responsibility for it. He aslo said they had too much "vision" for lack of a better word. They wanted 3 continents all filled with content and anybody who played VG knew pretty much one continent was about 90% done, the other about 70% and the third continent was maybe 25% complete.
But he is asbolutely right about MS. Microsoft was doing a lot of restructuring in their game division back in that time period, i remember because they canned a lot of sequels to other games, like not making an age of empires 3 for example.
This all supports exactly what he was saying that they basically got "suited" by Microsoft trying to basically pull a WoW on them and make the game into something it was never meant to be to try to pull some of that WOW pie.
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, I'm not gonna read the whole thread to find out:
It has been claimed Microsoft pulled out because they caught Brad in presenting a fake demo that had absolutely nothing to do with the real product, both to present what they thought MS wanted to see (to get more money), and to cover up that they were nowhere near the deadlines. I've seen this claimed on many websites, but have never seen Brad commenting on it.
Another popular claim, is that the released version was rapidly made in less than a year, and there's been a lot of speculations about what really went on the first years.
As several others have posted, they were in playing the game (early beta) when we were still working with MS.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?
Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!
Even Brad admitted he wasn't around in the later stages of Vanguard he stated he was busy trying to get more funding instead. So Vanguard love it or hate it wasn't his work the design programming and development was the work of the people Brad had canned in the parking lot.
30 million went a lot further back then then it does now a days. So 30 million back then and 5 years got Vanguard a game even the fans agree was buggy and rushed to release.
Now Brad states with 800K which certainly won't go as far as it did in Vanguards creation days and only 3 years he can make a MMO that won't be a buggy rushed out the door disaster?
Sure we know brad says he will get more money from other sources either repeated kickstarters or other ways but if he didn't have much luck getting funding for Vangard after MS pulled out how much luck do you really think he''ll have these days with his rep?
Its been over a week and the Kickstarter has had plenty of time to be announced and news spread yet with it still has less then 2k backers. While it does look like it can make its 800K goals it doesn't appear that even with outside funds and further backing it will be more then a shell of a game with few races/classes and no crafting/pvp or other basics that they have made multimillion dollar stretch goals.
Wish you Brad fans luck, it would be nice if this game was released even if it sounds too me like just a money grab for a recently laid off from SOE/EQ Brad. (Gee I wonder if SOE had him meet with them in the parking lot when they gave him the pink slip. Would have been poetic justice or maybe just plain Karma)
So see you in game?
Sure if its everything Brad promises but since we've all learned there's a big difference between promises made at the very start of a games production and the end call me what you will I'll be waiting at the end (if I'm still alive) to see how it turns out
I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
I spent enough of my life playing EQ that for me not to pledge would be the greatest betrayal ever. That joy should command loyalty in everyone that ever played the game.
Ask a hardcore Star Wars fan how well that situation tends to work out. People keep saying oh he created EQ. I guess he was the only one then? People talk about him like he can walk on water. Much like most fans of Star Wars/George Lucas. At least till episode 1, 2, and 3 dropped.
As much as I enjoyed EQ (still play it off and on today). Lets be real though. The man only has two games to his name. One that helped define a genre. That people praise him for like he created the whole thing by himself. And another that crashed and burned. That oddly enough people also squarely blame him for destroying, for .
Given a choice between taking money out of my wallet. Then either burning it or pledging it. I'd honestly lean more towards burning. As I believe it would be about the same as pledging it. Although I'd probably get more enjoyment from the burning.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?
Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!
Even Brad admitted he wasn't around in the later stages of Vanguard he stated he was busy trying to get more funding instead. So Vanguard love it or hate it wasn't his work the design programming and development was the work of the people Brad had canned in the parking lot.
30 million went a lot further back then then it does now a days. So 30 million back then and 5 years got Vanguard a game even the fans agree was buggy and rushed to release.
Now Brad states with 800K which certainly won't go as far as it did in Vanguards creation days and only 3 years he can make a MMO that won't be a buggy rushed out the door disaster?
Sure we know brad says he will get more money from other sources either repeated kickstarters or other ways but if he didn't have much luck getting funding for Vangard after MS pulled out how much luck do you really think he''ll have these days with his rep?
Its been over a week and the Kickstarter has had plenty of time to be announced and news spread yet with it still has less then 2k backers. While it does look like it can make its 800K goals it doesn't appear that even with outside funds and further backing it will be more then a shell of a game with few races/classes and no crafting/pvp or other basics that they have made multimillion dollar stretch goals.
Wish you Brad fans luck, it would be nice if this game was released even if it sounds too me like just a money grab for a recently laid off from SOE/EQ Brad. (Gee I wonder if SOE had him meet with them in the parking lot when they gave him the pink slip. Would have been poetic justice or maybe just plain Karma)
So see you in game?
Sure if its everything Brad promises but since we've all learned there's a big difference between promises made at the very start of a games production and the end call me what you will I'll be waiting at the end (if I'm still alive) to see how it turns out
You have to be alive, you won't want to miss this:-)
I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
I spent enough of my life playing EQ that for me not to pledge would be the greatest betrayal ever. That joy should command loyalty in everyone that ever played the game.
Ask a hardcore Star Wars fan how well that situation tends to work out. People keep saying oh he created EQ. I guess he was the only one then? People talk about him like he can walk on water. Much like most fans of Star Wars/George Lucas. At least till episode 1, 2, and 3 dropped.
As much as I enjoyed EQ (still play it off and on today). Lets be real though. The man only has two games to his name. One that helped define a genre. That people praise him for like he created the whole thing by himself. And another that crashed and burned. That oddly enough people also squarely blame him for destroying, for .
Given a choice between taking money out of my wallet. Then either burning it or pledging it. I'd honestly lean more towards burning. As I believe it would be about the same as pledging it. Although I'd probably get more enjoyment from the burning.
Well then I would ask you to also look at the pantheon team as a whole. If EQ was a team thing, and it was.. Brad was the leader.. A guy like Vu who created awesome dungeons like Seb and is on this new team should get your attention? Brad is 1 person, I agree. He has a team behind him and IMO they are a good, capable crew.
I like how the Brad-haters are basically saying he produced NOTHING with 30 million, and then when the money dried up, had to panic to get the game done at the last minute.... so, you're saying he made Vanguard, a buggy but still launched and many feel fun game, with zero funding, at the last minute... while doing drugs and suffering from mental illness?
Are you guys arguing for or against him... because if all the criticism is true, then he's even better at making games then I thought and might actually pull off this Pantheon project!
Even Brad admitted he wasn't around in the later stages of Vanguard he stated he was busy trying to get more funding instead. So Vanguard love it or hate it wasn't his work the design programming and development was the work of the people Brad had canned in the parking lot.
30 million went a lot further back then then it does now a days. So 30 million back then and 5 years got Vanguard a game even the fans agree was buggy and rushed to release.
Now Brad states with 800K which certainly won't go as far as it did in Vanguards creation days and only 3 years he can make a MMO that won't be a buggy rushed out the door disaster?
Sure we know brad says he will get more money from other sources either repeated kickstarters or other ways but if he didn't have much luck getting funding for Vangard after MS pulled out how much luck do you really think he''ll have these days with his rep?
Its been over a week and the Kickstarter has had plenty of time to be announced and news spread yet with it still has less then 2k backers. While it does look like it can make its 800K goals it doesn't appear that even with outside funds and further backing it will be more then a shell of a game with few races/classes and no crafting/pvp or other basics that they have made multimillion dollar stretch goals.
Wish you Brad fans luck, it would be nice if this game was released even if it sounds too me like just a money grab for a recently laid off from SOE/EQ Brad. (Gee I wonder if SOE had him meet with them in the parking lot when they gave him the pink slip. Would have been poetic justice or maybe just plain Karma)
So see you in game?
Sure if its everything Brad promises but since we've all learned there's a big difference between promises made at the very start of a games production and the end call me what you will I'll be waiting at the end (if I'm still alive) to see how it turns out
I understand why you feel the way you do. Hell, many of us are jaded these days. The direction this genre has gone is a tremendous let down, much more so than any one game's flawed release. But my money put into a project that hopes to be what we've been craving since the "old days" is far, far better spent than in purchasing titles that have no intentions of even trying to be. Reading the posts from these guys, their videos and interviews, and the community on the kickstarter page, you can feel the drive to create that game. I hope, in a few years, what we'll be calling you is a fellow Pantheon player.
I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
I spent enough of my life playing EQ that for me not to pledge would be the greatest betrayal ever. That joy should command loyalty in everyone that ever played the game.
Ask a hardcore Star Wars fan how well that situation tends to work out. People keep saying oh he created EQ. I guess he was the only one then? People talk about him like he can walk on water. Much like most fans of Star Wars/George Lucas. At least till episode 1, 2, and 3 dropped.
As much as I enjoyed EQ (still play it off and on today). Lets be real though. The man only has two games to his name. One that helped define a genre. That people praise him for like he created the whole thing by himself. And another that crashed and burned. That oddly enough people also squarely blame him for destroying, for .
Given a choice between taking money out of my wallet. Then either burning it or pledging it. I'd honestly lean more towards burning. As I believe it would be about the same as pledging it. Although I'd probably get more enjoyment from the burning.
There is this.
In truth Brad probably gets both way too much credit and way to much blame. He's a man a part of a team, one that took a lot of ideas from a lot of muds out in the early days mixed them together and helped make EQ. He may have been the main vision in the early days of Vanguard but by his own admission had a lot of ego and was so busy at the later stages of Vanguard trying to get funding he hardly was around.
Yet here he is again as management in the spotlight trying to get funding to make his game. So he's both the target of the Detractors (trolls, haters, non-beliers etc) and Savior of the Fans.(Well at least the fans that claim he's the only one that can make a god old school game these days)
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
If you know SOE almost added no new budget... just 2 or 3 M, then you must realise how far off you are..
Actually its incredible hom much content they got in for $30M if you compare it to other AAA MMO´s.. Finishing the game in the perfected condition would have required 3 times that budget...
They did not screw up vanguard, they just did not get to finish it..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I'm tired of soloers playing in a multiplayer game
I'm tired of roleplayers who solo all day and then say things like 'whoo, just made three levels, okay its time to rp"
I'm tired of supporting games that don't try to put some goddamed difficulty into them.
I'm tired of the guy who only has thirty minutes, get out of my game and go play Skyrim if that's the case.
I'm tired of half the audience leaving after the free month is up due to the fact that they have already gotten to max level
I'm tired of the rush to endgame and the who gives a fuck leveling experience
I'm tired of boring races and worlds of Europe mmos, games that lack true diversity amongst the races. I do not want to play a brown Englishman.
I want to play an Erudite
I want to play a Mordebi
I want to play a Stygian
I want to play an Elonian
And I want to sign on and have people to play with
I'm tired crap crafting, yes crafting is a stretch goal but both EQ and Vanguard had crafting better than 90 percent of mmos out there -NOW-
I would rather stake my bets on a good maybe made by the people who made two games I like, than a solid -never- easy mode consolized quest hubber that is made for the lowest common denominator
I'm tired of my night time during an mmo - if its there in the first place *cough Swtor* having nightlights and being nothing but really dark blue daytime
I want to be scared again
I don't want to play with your snot nosed kids, but I do want to play with the kid that wants to learn how to play these games and won't ragequit after a day.
I want to run again from things I can't handle in an area designed for my level
I don't want to do any more goddamed tasks. Go deliver your own fucking mail asshole.
And I want to play a good mmorpg made by someone who made games that I like unlike some unproven nobody who doesn't even have the luxury of fucking up in the first place because they did not make anything great previously.
And I want publishers to know that we still exist, so that even if you don't play -this- game, you will play one of the next three games like this that go into development due to the success of this one.
I will choke the next person that hands me some tunnel lined up quest zoomer. I will choke the next person who says "the real game starts at endgame"
Frodo and the Fellowship did not only join up for dungeons and part ways when they were done. People who loved things like Lord of the Rings and pen and paper rpgs were the audience this genre were created for.
I did not buy into this genre to play or support Massively Solo Multiplayer Dungeon games
I want my RPG back in mmoRPG
I want my friggin mount to matter because the world is so huge, not because I want to run through the tunnels that are called a world faster
I want to level how I want and just like in EQ I will figure out a way to solo when I can't find a party. Real gamers figure out ways to beat things that you tell us we can't
I want to explore and not hit some goddamned invisible wall
I want to be able to swim
I want to accidently hit my profession master had he lay the smackdown on me. I want to see him run out to fight if town gets invaded by an opposing faction
I want GM events like Spirit of the Wolf prize races again
I want to pee on myself seeing a super badass high level enemy being controlled by a GM stationed right outside the doors of my home city. Giving me a look that says "Try your chances bitch"
I want to ride a boat, and get attacked by sharks when I fall off and get attacked by pirates in the deep ocean
I want to save people from trains and that is the way I level up
I want to walk into a town and they raise prices on me because "we don't much like your kind around here", and I want to be able to prove myself with them by helping them thus having a group of people who now are my friends whenever I return visit.
And I want the EVE version of a fantasy rpg
I just bumped myself up to the 300 dollar pledge because I'd take a solid maybe over a right in your face never.
And I'd rather back this game than sitting here trying to save people from funding what they want to see instead of doing something that I like. Honestly its quite pathetic
There was an old line in the movie a Bronx tale, the main character lent another teenager money that he never got back, he ended up chasing the other kid everytime he saw him because he wanted his money back.
He was told by another one of the characters "you just paid the kid to get rid of him"
Bottom line is this, if Brad messes up this time, all we did is paid to never see him again. So lets do everything we can to give him everything he needs so that there are -no excuses- this time around on why something didn't work.
Love him, hate him, indifferent towards him? Nobody is working on -this- type of game. Nobody, and every publisher in the world is watching how this does so either they can decide to jump on the bandwagon or write those of us who want these type of games back off forever.
Personally I'm just not much into judging someone, I loved both of the games he made so I'm here with bells and whistles on. I have better things to do than to tarnish someone. Either I take a chance or not. I'm making my stand and taking a chance, period.
I want this to succeed because I'd much rather be playing a game, than playing a forum.. So I am putting my money where my mouth is and being proactive with what I want to see instead of sounding like some old naggy grandma talking about the good old days and whining. That to me is a sorry pathetic existence. I'd spend 300 dollars anyday to not become -that-
I'd pay a billion dollars for hope than become a ball of negativity and cynicism for free..
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
As several others have posted, they were in playing the game (early beta) when we were still working with MS.
I joined the Vanguard beta about a month before the announcement of leaving Microsoft. Still have the email from Microsoft inviting me to apply and the email from Sigil when I registered my beta key.
Also remember personally emailing Brad because I was concerned that the total download size was approx. 20gb (which was quite large back then) and the files seemed uncompressed, and he emailed back saying that was how it should be.
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
If I recall correctly, MS was still involved when we started early beta. Those in early beta can attest to the fact that there was a game there. We didn't suddenly build an MMO in 6-9 months. 'Nothing done' couldn't be further from the truth -- we had a game in late alpha/early beta that was a product of the team working very hard for 4 years at the time.
All that said, I made plenty of errors with Vanguard which I've talked about in the past. Ultimately the buck stops here with me. All I can say is that I learned a lot, and learned a lot about myself. If I don't rise up and take what I've learned and make another game, then truly the Vanguard development process beat me. I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
Best of luck to you, man. I wasn't a fan of EQ, but I really did enjoy Vanguard. You have the knowledge and experience to make something wonderful. More importantly, you seem to be objectively looking at both the successes and mistakes of the past, which means a greater chance for an even more amazing game in the future.
Good luck with Pantheon.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
He kind of left out the part that when MS pulled out they had almost nothing done on the game. So for 30 mil he made some Ads, talked a lot and.... paid for lunch ?
I assume he's learned his lesson about what thinking you have the midas touch and not doing any real work will get you. He did screw up Vanguard though.
If I recall correctly, MS was still involved when we started early beta. Those in early beta can attest to the fact that there was a game there. We didn't suddenly build an MMO in 6-9 months. 'Nothing done' couldn't be further from the truth -- we had a game in late alpha/early beta that was a product of the team working very hard for 4 years at the time.
All that said, I made plenty of errors with Vanguard which I've talked about in the past. Ultimately the buck stops here with me. All I can say is that I learned a lot, and learned a lot about myself. If I don't rise up and take what I've learned and make another game, then truly the Vanguard development process beat me. I can't let it do that, and I'm stronger now, and I would humbly ask people to remember EQ, not just VG, and to give us a chance to make this dream (Pantheon) a reality.
-Brad
I would much rather be wrong and see you produce another legendary game than be right and have another disappointment. Whatever really happened back then, it is the past and as a gamer I'm far more interested in what you will do, than what you've done....good or bad.
Good luck with your game, and I look forward to trying it if you ever get it off the ground.
Originally posted by evilastro You are confusing excuse with explanation.
No I am not, You see them as explanations and I see them as excuses to his failed product. It is all in how the reader interprets it and you cannot tell me how I interpret it. There is no right or wrong.
lol your post is funny, you say there is no right or wrong and still you think the other guy is wrong hehe
yeah thats how I read your post......you think the rest is wrong
Originally posted by evilastro You are confusing excuse with explanation.
No I am not, You see them as explanations and I see them as excuses to his failed product. It is all in how the reader interprets it and you cannot tell me how I interpret it. There is no right or wrong.
Excuse means to explain a fault or an offense in the hope of being forgiven or understood.
Brad had already accepted full responsibility both in a previous blog and on this forum. There is no point ignoring the factors that caused the fault just because you have accepted liability. If I wrote a bad report in my line of work, I would accept full responsibility but I would still need to acknowledge the cause of the failure, rather than just brush it under the rug.
So no, it is not an excuse, he didn't ask for forgiveness, he just pointed out what went wrong and indicated that he has learnt from his past mistakes.
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
I did answer it you are just trolling because you ran out of steam. One of this sites major functions is giving information on up and coming mmo's. Do I have to spell it out for you?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
I'm not the only one that thinks we've gotten 10 years of MMO garbage. Just because I don't enjoy MMO trash like Vanguard doesn't mean I'm waiting for the "MMO savior."
You just lost any support from me with that line..... You just confirmed you have zero idea of what makes an MMO.
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
I did answer it you are just trolling because you ran out of steam. One of this sites major functions is giving information on up and coming mmo's. Do I have to spell it out for you?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
I'm not the only one that thinks we've gotten 10 years of MMO garbage. Just because I don't enjoy MMO trash like Vanguard doesn't mean I'm waiting for the "MMO savior."
You just lost any support from me with that line..... You just confirmed you have zero idea of what makes an MMO.
Well, in his defense I also don't like Vanguard, even though I loved EQ and played for over 5 years (which is longer than my 3 month average stint in other MMOs). The bugs, even to this day, make it unplayable for me and even having a modern somewhat end-tier computer the game still suffers from performance issues. There are some decent ideas there, but the emptiness of the world (lack of players) and sporadic quality of the content makes it a very difficult game to sit through even for a short period of time.
Originally posted by Retired 30 million was not enough for him to do Vanguard, yet his Kickstarter claims he can do Pantheon with 800k? Nice excuse.
Its obvious you haven't actually been to the KS page and looked at the information there, or bothered to research anything about the project before posting this. They state very clearly what the $800k is for, and I'll give you a hint, it isn't to produce the entire game that will be Pantheon. If the game doesn't appeal to you, thats perfectly fine. However posting nonsense as an attack on a game you care nothing about anyway is a bit childish, and really a testament to the cesspool the community on these boards is becoming.
I might be remembering incorrectly, but I thought Brad said on his blog (when he wrote lots about what happened with Vanguard) that Microsoft ditched Vanguard after the people changed and that he didn't have anything down in writing with them, so there wasn't much he could do about it. He admitted to being naive about not having properly documented his agreements with his publisher.
I also recall reading that he didn't "turn to SOE" as he puts it, but rather ran around trying to find funding from various sources (like venture capital houses) and eventually Smedley helped him out after he couldn't find anyone to fund the game.
Again, my memory might be somewhat hazy, but I think that's what he wrote. A little inconsistent with the response he gave.
This is more or less what happened, yes.
Originally posted by asmkm22 If Brad thinks he's the only developer who's had to deal with publisher disputes and politics, then I have even less confidence in his next game than before.
Originally posted by Retired 30 million was not enough for him to do Vanguard, yet his Kickstarter claims he can do Pantheon with 800k? Nice excuse.
Its obvious you haven't actually been to the KS page and looked at the information there, or bothered to research anything about the project before posting this. They state very clearly what the $800k is for, and I'll give you a hint, it isn't to produce the entire game that will be Pantheon. If the game doesn't appeal to you, thats perfectly fine. However posting nonsense as an attack on a game you care nothing about anyway is a bit childish, and really a testament to the cesspool the community on these boards is becoming.
If it's such a cesspool, why you post here... 12 times? Obviously you don't know Brad's awful history. If you believe anything this guy promises I feel for you.
Originally posted by Retired 30 million was not enough for him to do Vanguard, yet his Kickstarter claims he can do Pantheon with 800k? Nice excuse.
Its obvious you haven't actually been to the KS page and looked at the information there, or bothered to research anything about the project before posting this. They state very clearly what the $800k is for, and I'll give you a hint, it isn't to produce the entire game that will be Pantheon. If the game doesn't appeal to you, thats perfectly fine. However posting nonsense as an attack on a game you care nothing about anyway is a bit childish, and really a testament to the cesspool the community on these boards is becoming.
If it's such a cesspool, why you post here... 12 times? Obviously you don't know Brad's awful history. If you believe anything this guy promises I feel for you.
He's pretty awful all right. The guy who created EQ with 2 other guys in a garage (or was it a basement?). Either way, this site and every MMO developed after EQ might not even exist if it had not been for Brad. Such a horrible guy who just happened to create an incredibly influential game. Just awful. /sarcasm off
Originally posted by Retired 30 million was not enough for him to do Vanguard, yet his Kickstarter claims he can do Pantheon with 800k? Nice excuse.
Its obvious you haven't actually been to the KS page and looked at the information there, or bothered to research anything about the project before posting this. They state very clearly what the $800k is for, and I'll give you a hint, it isn't to produce the entire game that will be Pantheon. If the game doesn't appeal to you, thats perfectly fine. However posting nonsense as an attack on a game you care nothing about anyway is a bit childish, and really a testament to the cesspool the community on these boards is becoming.
If it's such a cesspool, why you post here... 12 times? Obviously you don't know Brad's awful history. If you believe anything this guy promises I feel for you.
Back! Back under your bridge, troll! Really though, I'm posting here about this because of people not unlike yourself who, for some reason, want to see this project fail. It seems beyond that you just aren't interested, or the game isn't for you. You make it a blatant personal attack on Brad, who by the way is not making this game by himself. I'm not asking anyone to act as though Vanguard was released flawlessly and was the perfect game. What I AM asking people to at least consider, is that Vanguard was not the only game he was involved in, and that the information people are spewing about the circumstances leading to Vanguards less than stellar release is rumor and hearsay as far as any one of us can know. Lastly, if you only ever support perfect people who only succeed in 100% of everything they do, you must support a very precious few, or no one at all. I respect those who admit mistakes and learn from them, and I believe Brad has. I also believe in he and his team's ability to create a game that I, and MANY others, have been able to claim as one of their favorites for more than a decade.
My goodness some people will believe anything they read on the internet. I find it pretty refreshing to find Brad (Aradune) posting on just about every forum that I frequent, talking about this game, as well as being very transparent about his past. The myths have started to pile up again now that Pantheon is taking shape. From 2005-2010 I worked in an advertising/marketing firm that worked with microsoft as well as many other gaming companies and I can tell you that pretty much every big player back then was going to back one game and one game only, WOW 2.0. Everything else was too risky and the WOW money was too appealing.
I really hope this game gets made and it's the first kickstarter that I have ever backed.
Brad was not snorting coke off of million dollar furniture or doing body shots off of hookers instead of working on Vanguard.
Brad did set his goals too high and failed to reach them. He admits this and has the wisdom to view it as a life lesson and hopes to learn from his mistakes.
I really hope I'm playing this game in a few years.
Comments
So see you in game?
As several others have posted, they were in playing the game (early beta) when we were still working with MS.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Sure if its everything Brad promises but since we've all learned there's a big difference between promises made at the very start of a games production and the end call me what you will I'll be waiting at the end (if I'm still alive) to see how it turns out
Ask a hardcore Star Wars fan how well that situation tends to work out. People keep saying oh he created EQ. I guess he was the only one then? People talk about him like he can walk on water. Much like most fans of Star Wars/George Lucas. At least till episode 1, 2, and 3 dropped.
As much as I enjoyed EQ (still play it off and on today). Lets be real though. The man only has two games to his name. One that helped define a genre. That people praise him for like he created the whole thing by himself. And another that crashed and burned. That oddly enough people also squarely blame him for destroying, for .
Given a choice between taking money out of my wallet. Then either burning it or pledging it. I'd honestly lean more towards burning. As I believe it would be about the same as pledging it. Although I'd probably get more enjoyment from the burning.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
You have to be alive, you won't want to miss this:-)
Well then I would ask you to also look at the pantheon team as a whole. If EQ was a team thing, and it was.. Brad was the leader.. A guy like Vu who created awesome dungeons like Seb and is on this new team should get your attention? Brad is 1 person, I agree. He has a team behind him and IMO they are a good, capable crew.
I understand why you feel the way you do. Hell, many of us are jaded these days. The direction this genre has gone is a tremendous let down, much more so than any one game's flawed release. But my money put into a project that hopes to be what we've been craving since the "old days" is far, far better spent than in purchasing titles that have no intentions of even trying to be. Reading the posts from these guys, their videos and interviews, and the community on the kickstarter page, you can feel the drive to create that game. I hope, in a few years, what we'll be calling you is a fellow Pantheon player.
There is this.
In truth Brad probably gets both way too much credit and way to much blame. He's a man a part of a team, one that took a lot of ideas from a lot of muds out in the early days mixed them together and helped make EQ. He may have been the main vision in the early days of Vanguard but by his own admission had a lot of ego and was so busy at the later stages of Vanguard trying to get funding he hardly was around.
Yet here he is again as management in the spotlight trying to get funding to make his game. So he's both the target of the Detractors (trolls, haters, non-beliers etc) and Savior of the Fans.(Well at least the fans that claim he's the only one that can make a god old school game these days)
If you know SOE almost added no new budget... just 2 or 3 M, then you must realise how far off you are..
Actually its incredible hom much content they got in for $30M if you compare it to other AAA MMO´s.. Finishing the game in the perfected condition would have required 3 times that budget...
They did not screw up vanguard, they just did not get to finish it..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I'm tired of playing three monthers
I'm tired of soloers playing in a multiplayer game
I'm tired of roleplayers who solo all day and then say things like 'whoo, just made three levels, okay its time to rp"
I'm tired of supporting games that don't try to put some goddamed difficulty into them.
I'm tired of the guy who only has thirty minutes, get out of my game and go play Skyrim if that's the case.
I'm tired of half the audience leaving after the free month is up due to the fact that they have already gotten to max level
I'm tired of the rush to endgame and the who gives a fuck leveling experience
I'm tired of boring races and worlds of Europe mmos, games that lack true diversity amongst the races. I do not want to play a brown Englishman.
I want to play an Erudite
I want to play a Mordebi
I want to play a Stygian
I want to play an Elonian
And I want to sign on and have people to play with
I'm tired crap crafting, yes crafting is a stretch goal but both EQ and Vanguard had crafting better than 90 percent of mmos out there -NOW-
I would rather stake my bets on a good maybe made by the people who made two games I like, than a solid -never- easy mode consolized quest hubber that is made for the lowest common denominator
I'm tired of my night time during an mmo - if its there in the first place *cough Swtor* having nightlights and being nothing but really dark blue daytime
I want to be scared again
I don't want to play with your snot nosed kids, but I do want to play with the kid that wants to learn how to play these games and won't ragequit after a day.
I want to run again from things I can't handle in an area designed for my level
I don't want to do any more goddamed tasks. Go deliver your own fucking mail asshole.
And I want to play a good mmorpg made by someone who made games that I like unlike some unproven nobody who doesn't even have the luxury of fucking up in the first place because they did not make anything great previously.
And I want publishers to know that we still exist, so that even if you don't play -this- game, you will play one of the next three games like this that go into development due to the success of this one.
I will choke the next person that hands me some tunnel lined up quest zoomer. I will choke the next person who says "the real game starts at endgame"
Frodo and the Fellowship did not only join up for dungeons and part ways when they were done. People who loved things like Lord of the Rings and pen and paper rpgs were the audience this genre were created for.
I did not buy into this genre to play or support Massively Solo Multiplayer Dungeon games
I want my RPG back in mmoRPG
I want my friggin mount to matter because the world is so huge, not because I want to run through the tunnels that are called a world faster
I want to level how I want and just like in EQ I will figure out a way to solo when I can't find a party. Real gamers figure out ways to beat things that you tell us we can't
I want to explore and not hit some goddamned invisible wall
I want to be able to swim
I want to accidently hit my profession master had he lay the smackdown on me. I want to see him run out to fight if town gets invaded by an opposing faction
I want GM events like Spirit of the Wolf prize races again
I want to pee on myself seeing a super badass high level enemy being controlled by a GM stationed right outside the doors of my home city. Giving me a look that says "Try your chances bitch"
I want to ride a boat, and get attacked by sharks when I fall off and get attacked by pirates in the deep ocean
I want to save people from trains and that is the way I level up
I want to walk into a town and they raise prices on me because "we don't much like your kind around here", and I want to be able to prove myself with them by helping them thus having a group of people who now are my friends whenever I return visit.
And I want the EVE version of a fantasy rpg
I just bumped myself up to the 300 dollar pledge because I'd take a solid maybe over a right in your face never.
And I'd rather back this game than sitting here trying to save people from funding what they want to see instead of doing something that I like. Honestly its quite pathetic
There was an old line in the movie a Bronx tale, the main character lent another teenager money that he never got back, he ended up chasing the other kid everytime he saw him because he wanted his money back.
He was told by another one of the characters "you just paid the kid to get rid of him"
Bottom line is this, if Brad messes up this time, all we did is paid to never see him again. So lets do everything we can to give him everything he needs so that there are -no excuses- this time around on why something didn't work.
Love him, hate him, indifferent towards him? Nobody is working on -this- type of game. Nobody, and every publisher in the world is watching how this does so either they can decide to jump on the bandwagon or write those of us who want these type of games back off forever.
Personally I'm just not much into judging someone, I loved both of the games he made so I'm here with bells and whistles on. I have better things to do than to tarnish someone. Either I take a chance or not. I'm making my stand and taking a chance, period.
I want this to succeed because I'd much rather be playing a game, than playing a forum.. So I am putting my money where my mouth is and being proactive with what I want to see instead of sounding like some old naggy grandma talking about the good old days and whining. That to me is a sorry pathetic existence. I'd spend 300 dollars anyday to not become -that-
I'd pay a billion dollars for hope than become a ball of negativity and cynicism for free..
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I joined the Vanguard beta about a month before the announcement of leaving Microsoft. Still have the email from Microsoft inviting me to apply and the email from Sigil when I registered my beta key.
Also remember personally emailing Brad because I was concerned that the total download size was approx. 20gb (which was quite large back then) and the files seemed uncompressed, and he emailed back saying that was how it should be.
Best of luck to you, man. I wasn't a fan of EQ, but I really did enjoy Vanguard. You have the knowledge and experience to make something wonderful. More importantly, you seem to be objectively looking at both the successes and mistakes of the past, which means a greater chance for an even more amazing game in the future.
Good luck with Pantheon.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I would much rather be wrong and see you produce another legendary game than be right and have another disappointment. Whatever really happened back then, it is the past and as a gamer I'm far more interested in what you will do, than what you've done....good or bad.
Good luck with your game, and I look forward to trying it if you ever get it off the ground.
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lol your post is funny, you say there is no right or wrong and still you think the other guy is wrong
hehe
yeah thats how I read your post......you think the rest is wrong
Excuse means to explain a fault or an offense in the hope of being forgiven or understood.
Brad had already accepted full responsibility both in a previous blog and on this forum. There is no point ignoring the factors that caused the fault just because you have accepted liability. If I wrote a bad report in my line of work, I would accept full responsibility but I would still need to acknowledge the cause of the failure, rather than just brush it under the rug.
So no, it is not an excuse, he didn't ask for forgiveness, he just pointed out what went wrong and indicated that he has learnt from his past mistakes.
You just lost any support from me with that line..... You just confirmed you have zero idea of what makes an MMO.
Well, in his defense I also don't like Vanguard, even though I loved EQ and played for over 5 years (which is longer than my 3 month average stint in other MMOs). The bugs, even to this day, make it unplayable for me and even having a modern somewhat end-tier computer the game still suffers from performance issues. There are some decent ideas there, but the emptiness of the world (lack of players) and sporadic quality of the content makes it a very difficult game to sit through even for a short period of time.
Its obvious you haven't actually been to the KS page and looked at the information there, or bothered to research anything about the project before posting this. They state very clearly what the $800k is for, and I'll give you a hint, it isn't to produce the entire game that will be Pantheon. If the game doesn't appeal to you, thats perfectly fine. However posting nonsense as an attack on a game you care nothing about anyway is a bit childish, and really a testament to the cesspool the community on these boards is becoming.
This is more or less what happened, yes.
Where did he claim that he was?
If it's such a cesspool, why you post here... 12 times? Obviously you don't know Brad's awful history. If you believe anything this guy promises I feel for you.
He's pretty awful all right. The guy who created EQ with 2 other guys in a garage (or was it a basement?). Either way, this site and every MMO developed after EQ might not even exist if it had not been for Brad. Such a horrible guy who just happened to create an incredibly influential game. Just awful. /sarcasm off
Back! Back under your bridge, troll! Really though, I'm posting here about this because of people not unlike yourself who, for some reason, want to see this project fail. It seems beyond that you just aren't interested, or the game isn't for you. You make it a blatant personal attack on Brad, who by the way is not making this game by himself. I'm not asking anyone to act as though Vanguard was released flawlessly and was the perfect game. What I AM asking people to at least consider, is that Vanguard was not the only game he was involved in, and that the information people are spewing about the circumstances leading to Vanguards less than stellar release is rumor and hearsay as far as any one of us can know. Lastly, if you only ever support perfect people who only succeed in 100% of everything they do, you must support a very precious few, or no one at all. I respect those who admit mistakes and learn from them, and I believe Brad has. I also believe in he and his team's ability to create a game that I, and MANY others, have been able to claim as one of their favorites for more than a decade.
My goodness some people will believe anything they read on the internet. I find it pretty refreshing to find Brad (Aradune) posting on just about every forum that I frequent, talking about this game, as well as being very transparent about his past. The myths have started to pile up again now that Pantheon is taking shape. From 2005-2010 I worked in an advertising/marketing firm that worked with microsoft as well as many other gaming companies and I can tell you that pretty much every big player back then was going to back one game and one game only, WOW 2.0. Everything else was too risky and the WOW money was too appealing.
I really hope this game gets made and it's the first kickstarter that I have ever backed.
Brad was not snorting coke off of million dollar furniture or doing body shots off of hookers instead of working on Vanguard.
Brad did set his goals too high and failed to reach them. He admits this and has the wisdom to view it as a life lesson and hopes to learn from his mistakes.
I really hope I'm playing this game in a few years.
That's just my take on things.