"I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.
Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.
Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......
Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, your argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"
You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.
A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.
so wait, you are accusing him of being a mindless drone when you're the one spouting off a bunch of unconfirmed horse crap that was sourced by one disgruntled employee and because of people who love to drink haterade on the internet got solidifed as internet "fact"??!!
Ripe, really, just, ripe.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
The big thing I take from the poster and even McQuaid's reply is the simple idea that if you let the fans make you Jesus with a title they are going to crucify you later after the inevitable screw up. After all these years, he still hasn't been forgiven. Even politicians get more sympathy in the after public work phase of their life...
I know nothing of nothing about what happened. I do know there is next to no information about this new project. It's an mmorpg, it's going to be hard, there will be dungeons, "you don't have to do the quests", and there is a cleric class.
I'm thinking about starting my KS too.
True. I can't say I am fond of his KS project presentation. The development stretch goals are wonky and liable to produce an incomplete game that might not should have been made unless he can score going on seven million. The benefits of donating are too little for too much. He has nothing to show in order to awe the general project supporter or wow them with the potential. He has his name and fame but it's not enough to sell a project on by itself.
From my perspective the best KS presentation yet done came from Chris Roberts for Star Citizen and other development teams would be wise to learn from what he did and is doing in that regard. If you can inspire us, the general donator, you will get your thirty million dollars and more...
I really want Pantheon to be awesome, but I also don't like to burn money.
So, went looking for real information about the Vanguard problems (hoping to find old Brad posts).
What I did find was a couple links to forum posts from a developer on the Vanguard team (Nino). He was posting his thoughts on Vanguard and the team after the sell back to SOE.
Unfortunately, it looks like the site that was hosting the forums is now owned by Brad or something because it links to the Pantheon KS now. (it was the FOH guild forums)
It seems strange to me that someone would go through so much trouble to hide old form posts. I assume this was done recently because the KS project just started.
Do you guys actually read this stuff before you post it?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that brad mcquaid somehow bought out the domain for one of the most prevalent guilds in MMO history, a guild that started out in EQ1, and had a prominent member of the guild hired by blizzard during the development of WOW, just so he could suppress some supposed proof of his dastardly deeds.
This is getting flipping ridiculous. I expect absurdity, especially on these forums but i continue to be surprised at every turn.
FoH stands for Fires of Heaven, btw, in case you feel like doing some more "research".
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
"I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.
Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.
Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......
Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, your argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"
You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.
A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.
so wait, you are accusing him of being a mindless drone when you're the one spouting off a bunch of unconfirmed horse crap that was sourced by one disgruntled employee and because of people who love to drink haterade on the internet got solidifed as internet "fact"??!!
Ripe, really, just, ripe.
There's plenty of disgruntled employee's that posted about Sigil since that disaster if you want to go digging. Technically you could claim all of them are false because they were wronged and clearly bias. Unfortunatly the magnitude in which employee's were screwed makes their claims not only feasible.....but likely.
In the end alot of it is hearsay but that's not an excuse to stick your head in the sand either.
"I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.
Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.
Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......
Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, your argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"
You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.
A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.
so wait, you are accusing him of being a mindless drone when you're the one spouting off a bunch of unconfirmed horse crap that was sourced by one disgruntled employee and because of people who love to drink haterade on the internet got solidifed as internet "fact"??!!
Ripe, really, just, ripe.
There's plenty of disgruntled employee's that posted about Sigil since that disaster if you want to go digging. Technically you could claim all of them are false because they were wronged and clearly bias. Unfortunatly the magnitude in which employee's were screwed makes their claims not only feasible.....but likely.
In the end alot of it is hearsay but that's not an excuse to stick your head in the sand either.
Please answer my question
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
I did answer it you are just trolling because you ran out of steam. One of this sites major functions is giving information on up and coming mmo's. Do I have to spell it out for you?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
So I need to know for someone in their right mind who abandoned the genre as anyone should, why would they even be here? Why wait around for something when you already abandoned the genre..
See I abandoned the fighting game genre, so I no longer care what is coming out for it. Why? Because I abandoned it.
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
I did answer it you are just trolling because you ran out of steam. One of this sites major functions is giving information on up and coming mmo's. Do I have to spell it out for you?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
I'm not the only one that thinks we've gotten 10 years of MMO garbage. Just because I don't enjoy MMO trash like Vanguard doesn't mean I'm waiting for the "MMO savior."
"I love the classes/races/world" is not an argument for why a game is good, especially in Vanguards case.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
Brad saying it needed 6 more months is certainly lawl worthy considering the game could have Blizzards budget and 6 months RIGHT NOW and still have more bugs then fear factor.
Ah so you are playing forums more than games? Case adjourned.
Keep waiting for your savior mmo buddy, because its going to be a long wait......
Pretty silly response considering that is one of the major purposes of this site. You have no case, your argument is basically "leave Britney alone!"
You are free to be a mindless drone that throws money at companies that don't deserve it but that's not for me.
A long wait for a decent MMO is something we can agree on though.
so wait, you are accusing him of being a mindless drone when you're the one spouting off a bunch of unconfirmed horse crap that was sourced by one disgruntled employee and because of people who love to drink haterade on the internet got solidifed as internet "fact"??!!
Ripe, really, just, ripe.
There's plenty of disgruntled employee's that posted about Sigil since that disaster if you want to go digging. Technically you could claim all of them are false because they were wronged and clearly bias. Unfortunatly the magnitude in which employee's were screwed makes their claims not only feasible.....but likely.
In the end alot of it is hearsay but that's not an excuse to stick your head in the sand either.
I hear what you're saying, but humans are fickle creatures, and words get twisted, time twists things, and people perceive things differently. There is a reason why the police rarely trust information given by witnesses. Its almost always false. One guy will say he was wearing a red hat, the other will say it was black. etc.
There is a really eye opening test. get 15 or so of your friends together in a line. Make up a sentence, something like "The cat ran across the street to fetch the dog a bone" Have the person at one end whisper it in the ear if the person next to the, who turns around and whispers it into the ear of the person next to the, etc, til you get to the end. You will be extremely surprised what you hear come out of that last persons mouth. I assure you it wont be anywhere close to what you said to the first person.
We're all perfectly aware of the mismanagement, we know he fucked up. We're just tired of the anti-christ level hatred that he gets, its completely unwarranted. You would of thought the guy molested a busload of school children while pissing on the graves of ghandi, mother theresa, and babe ruth, all while wearing a justin bieber concert t shirt and fellating the ceo of EA with the amount of hate he gets.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Don't know where to start really, there are a milion different things people can and have said. Some people are trying to hard to trash the man. Vanguard was Vanguard.. lessons learned for the whole gaming community. People are trying to personally attack him for not giving answers etc etc. He did give answers back in 2007, he said what happened, a few times. He has taken ownership many times.
Just think, your a fricken MMOG god... everyone knows you, loves your work. You start up a company thinking your going to gain complete control over your game..(thats right he left SoE cause he had less and less control over eq, and didn't like the direction it was going, plus head butting a few of the suites there). So now with a great new company, and a great new idea/ game world, you decide, what the heck let me see if my fellow developers / friends from the last 5 years, want to join me. Everything is coming along nicely, your trying to be a cool boss, to the point almost rebellious of the establishment thinking. Its churning along nicely with your small core of past friends and co-workers. You secure steady stream of funding, some times goes a product takes shape. The Suites, begin not wanting to fund your relaxed workplace ( or don't think you have too much to show for it), but you know your idea, and work enviroment will produce the next greatest thing since slice cheese and smaller needles. Time to ramp up... you bring in quite a few more peoples, that love the care free work atmosphere. Some even take advantage of it, but you still want to be the cool boss that encourages creative freedom and inspiration. You just can't bring yourself to becoming an dickhead to people, meanwhile your feeling sandwiched between the suites of the most powerful computer company of planet Earth, and the livelihood / dreams of your fellow friends. You bring in someone that can be the bad man, and start forcing production and a normalized pace, just a tad to late, that huge Software company does a calculated move, to get some of its money back. Forcing you to use your scarce resources, to buy back your dream.... your a MMOG God, you can still do it. You can pull it off!
You decide over the course of the next month... you need funding.. or people paychecks are going to start rubber balling .. these are your friends, you have to see them daily.. you know their kids names, you know their wives/ husbands. you have to get money... for the company to survive. Its ok though, you have someone there ( you think) that can handle it, can keep people working mush mush style. All your friends and the exp workers... they know whats going on, dropped from one Publisher .. they know its only a matter of time, why work 100% .. its all going down hill, and in a hurry. Some have even already left too! None of them hardly see you in the office anymore, the rumor mill starts, your whole company is imploding around. Finally you must come to the conclusion, some funding is better no funding. Your old company that just recently ( 2.5 years earlier) released their new flagship game, to sub par reviews..which knows your game could be the nail in the coffin for their flagship, decide they are going to life-support fund you, ( really they just wanted to get in and see if your game really is going to kill theirs), they pledge support, and engineers, and coders to help get your game to market. Cause the cost of this Life support is only good for 6 months. Suites again decide to tell you, your going to launch and launch now you will, cause they need their money back ( plus they know it would die, and thus be no real competition for the flag-ship). Wait where is all that support from that huge game company that you made so much money for... oh they pulled them, your a live game now. You made box sales.. fix your own game. Wait, someone at the huge game company thinks it thru, they don't really want you to fix your game. They tell you you have made a great game.. but they can't help you no more, but they can buy it from you, so that you can pay off all your debts, and hmm give you a little extra for all your troubles. But if they buy it, you have to agree to never talk about.. the huge game company doesn't want loyal fans and current employee's/dev's to know how they black-balled you. In exchange for all this, we will keep most of your employees ( keeping them with a job), all you have to do its sign this NDA, and you'll have your old position back, as our bitch.
So goes your company! Now after all the success of your past games/ developments with the huge company.. old friends and co -workers stare at you constantly ridiculing you. Your company's old employee are now starting to get the axe. The renewed support claims for your game never come true... matter of fact, it seems the big company just wants a pretty picture of your game on their value catalog. But too late, you can't say anything, or else you get sued for violating your contracts.. you just can't save face anymore, and decide to leave.
Some years go by.. some think tanks, are ready to admit defeat... they need a new game. They need you to come help vision wise. Wow great someone wants you, and you need a job. After getting in, and you see how the new games, are nothing but cash cows, and not taking care of the customers in the right way, your reminded your just here to be their bitch-boy and help watch the 10 dollar an hour developers stay to true to the franchise name. Oh the big Company is now up crap creek, and need to save some cash, don't worry your safe, its all those 10 dollar guys that are going to loose their job. You decide, you know what " I am Mutha' puggin Brad McQuaid, and I don't want to work for these d-bags, I want to make a real game" . You decide, to leave the big company, (permanently this time) so that those 10 dollar an hour guys can keep their jobs... Some of your past co-workers drop everything and leave with ya ( that alone should speak volumes), your all excited, this time your going to do it, your going to make a great game everyone will love.
But first, you got to get thru all the dumasses, trying to make up comments on some web forum.. you got to deal with everyone trying to stab ya in the back again and again and again..All the out right lies being told about you, meanwhile the BIg gaming company closely monitoring you.. to make sure you don't violate that contract...you can't tell anyone what really happened. You have to just trust, that everything will work out in the end. You have to just get over it, and do what you do best... make games that people will love. You can't worry about what people are going to say...
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
I did answer it you are just trolling because you ran out of steam. One of this sites major functions is giving information on up and coming mmo's. Do I have to spell it out for you?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
I'm not the only one that thinks we've gotten 10 years of MMO garbage. Just because I don't enjoy MMO trash like Vanguard doesn't mean I'm waiting for the "MMO savior."
So then why are you still here? Are you so convinced that you have to save us poor peons?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Don't know where to start really, there are a milion different things people can and have said. Some people are trying to hard to trash the man. Vanguard was Vanguard.. lessons learned for the whole gaming community. People are trying to personally attack him for not giving answers etc etc. He did give answers back in 2007, he said what happened, a few times. He has taken ownership many times.
Just think, your a fricken MMOG god... everyone knows you, loves your work. You start up a company thinking your going to gain complete control over your game..(thats right he left SoE cause he had less and less control over eq, and didn't like the direction it was going, plus head butting a few of the suites there). So now with a great new company, and a great new idea/ game world, you decide, what the heck let me see if my fellow developers / friends from the last 5 years, want to join me. Everything is coming along nicely, your trying to be a cool boss, to the point almost rebellious of the establishment thinking. Its churning along nicely with your small core of past friends and co-workers. You secure steady stream of funding, some times goes a product takes shape. The Suites, begin not wanting to fund your relaxed workplace ( or don't think you have too much to show for it), but you know your idea, and work enviroment will produce the next greatest thing since slice cheese and smaller needles. Time to ramp up... you bring in quite a few more peoples, that love the care free work atmosphere. Some even take advantage of it, but you still want to be the cool boss that encourages creative freedom and inspiration. You just can't bring yourself to becoming an dickhead to people, meanwhile your feeling sandwiched between the suites of the most powerful computer company of planet Earth, and the livelihood / dreams of your fellow friends. You bring in someone that can be the bad man, and start forcing production and a normalized pace, just a tad to late, that huge Software company does a calculated move, to get some of its money back. Forcing you to use your scarce resources, to buy back your dream.... your a MMOG God, you can still do it. You can pull it off!
You decide over the course of the next month... you need funding.. or people paychecks are going to start rubber balling .. these are your friends, you have to see them daily.. you know their kids names, you know their wives/ husbands. you have to get money... for the company to survive. Its ok though, you have someone there ( you think) that can handle it, can keep people working mush mush style. All your friends and the exp workers... they know whats going on, dropped from one Publisher .. they know its only a matter of time, why work 100% .. its all going down hill, and in a hurry. Some have even already left too! None of them hardly see you in the office anymore, the rumor mill starts, your whole company is imploding around. Finally you must come to the conclusion, some funding is better no funding. Your old company that just recently ( 2.5 years earlier) released their new flagship game, to sub par reviews..which knows your game could be the nail in the coffin for their flagship, decide they are going to life-support fund you, ( really they just wanted to get in and see if your game really is going to kill theirs), they pledge support, and engineers, and coders to help get your game to market. Cause the cost of this Life support is only good for 6 months. Suites again decide to tell you, your going to launch and launch now you will, cause they need their money back ( plus they know it would die, and thus be no real competition for the flag-ship). Wait where is all that support from that huge game company that you made so much money for... oh they pulled them, your a live game now. You made box sales.. fix your own game. Wait, someone at the huge game company thinks it thru, they don't really want you to fix your game. They tell you you have made a great game.. but they can't help you no more, but they can buy it from you, so that you can pay off all your debts, and hmm give you a little extra for all your troubles. But if they buy it, you have to agree to never talk about.. the huge game company doesn't want loyal fans and current employee's/dev's to know how they black-balled you. In exchange for all this, we will keep most of your employees ( keeping them with a job), all you have to do its sign this NDA, and you'll have your old position back, as our bitch.
So goes your company! Now after all the success of your past games/ developments with the huge company.. old friends and co -workers stare at you constantly ridiculing you. Your company's old employee are now starting to get the axe. The renewed support claims for your game never come true... matter of fact, it seems the big company just wants a pretty picture of your game on their value catalog. But too late, you can't say anything, or else you get sued for violating your contracts.. you just can't save face anymore, and decide to leave.
Some years go by.. some think tanks, are ready to admit defeat... they need a new game. They need you to come help vision wise. Wow great someone wants you, and you need a job. After getting in, and you see how the new games, are nothing but cash cows, and not taking care of the customers in the right way, your reminded your just here to be their bitch-boy and help watch the 10 dollar an hour developers stay to true to the franchise name. Oh the big Company is now up crap creek, and need to save some cash, don't worry your safe, its all those 10 dollar guys that are going to loose their job. You decide, you know what " I am Mutha' puggin Brad McQuaid, and I don't want to work for these d-bags, I want to make a real game" . You decide, to leave the big company, (permanently this time) so that those 10 dollar an hour guys can keep their jobs... Some of your past co-workers drop everything and leave with ya ( that alone should speak volumes), your all excited, this time your going to do it, your going to make a great game everyone will love.
But first, you got to get thru all the dumasses, trying to make up comments on some web forum.. you got to deal with everyone trying to stab ya in the back again and again and again..All the out right lies being told about you, meanwhile the BIg gaming company closely monitoring you.. to make sure you don't violate that contract...you can't tell anyone what really happened. You have to just trust, that everything will work out in the end. You have to just get over it, and do what you do best... make games that people will love. You can't worry about what people are going to say...
Your Brad McQuaid
Lolwut???
The fact is, he pissed away millions and had to scramble at the end to get anything done but only after he went crawling on his hands and knees back to soe to get more money. I would almost say he had very little to do with any "success" Vanguard had because he was never fucking there. It was left up to everyone else working at Sigil to make the game because MCQuaid was an absentee owner. That super awesome diplomacy system people rave about? Brad had almost nothing to do with it. It was designed by others. Lets not forget that he shit canned nearly ALL of his staff in the parking lot. Oh wait, it wasn't Brad that told his employees they were fired, that fun chore was left to Jeff Butler. McQuaid didn't even have the balls to look his employees in the face and tell them himself.
I found this very telling of the type of atmosphere working at Sigil was like:
"What of Sigil chairman and CEO Brad McQuaid? "He has a consulting arrangement and we will tap into his expertise as needed," says Simmons. The Vanguard co-creator was vexingly absent for all of this, and for a whole lot more, according to some reports. Former Sigil employees claim that he's been in absentia for the past six months and the last time he showed up on the office was last Friday to pick up all his HeroClix figures and take his pictures down. When reached earlier today, McQuaid declined to comment."
Yeah, your God King of MMO developers wasn't even involved in Vanguard for the 6 months before it all fell apart. So much for your conspiracy theory. I've said this before but I'll say it again, anyone that gives this man money is a fool and deserves to lose it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
when I bought this game at release it was so bugged I couldn't even do quests.it was so badly done.but I decided to stay and give it a chance.i was glad I did because its one hell of a game.
It may not be has successful as wow or other games but here we are 7 yrs on and its still running.Leth Nurae was my favourite spot.the music and atmosphere was fantastic.Brad's vision for the game was great.its just a shame it never turned out that way.i think SOE did ok by making the game playable so much so I played non stop for 2.5 yrs.i hope he has learnt his lesson and does Pantheon right.If he does I will be there.Vanguard is just about done now so having this game ready it will take over where Vanguard left off.HOPEFULLY
Vanguard was the mmo that really broke my back for all hope about the future of this genre. I hated EQ2 and WoW and had all my hopes riding on VG. Bought the collectors edition for my friend and I, then we were entirely destroyed by what we played.
After a lot of searching for truths and facts about why it was such a train wreck it turned out that Brad was/is a fantastic visionary and game designer, but literally the worst boss, money manager, etc. But the whole Microsoft switch up/pull out completely screwed VG. SOE helped just get the game to see a launch, but they didn't really help VG fix or polish anything because why would you help a game that might crush your own game (EQ2).
Brad is still Brad, so I really have no hopes for his new game since he is at the helm again. I was excited about him returning as a dev on VG but he didn't seem to want to stay at all. Brad, you are a great game maker, just stop trying to be the CEO.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Vanguard was the mmo that really broke my back for all hope about the future of this genre. I hated EQ2 and WoW and had all my hopes riding on VG. Bought the collectors edition for my friend and I, then we were entirely destroyed by what we played.
After a lot of searching for truths and facts about why it was such a train wreck it turned out that Brad was/is a fantastic visionary and game designer, but literally the worst boss, money manager, etc. But the whole Microsoft switch up/pull out completely screwed VG. SOE helped just get the game to see a launch, but they didn't really help VG fix or polish anything because why would you help a game that might crush your own game (EQ2).
Brad is still Brad, so I really have no hopes for his new game since he is at the helm again. I was excited about him returning as a dev on VG but he didn't seem to want to stay at all. Brad, you are a great game maker, just stop trying to be the CEO.
Good news is Brad has stated he is going to hire a project manager / CEO to allow him to concentrate on the creative side of the game. He is only going to be the CCO.
Maybe his 4 page reply regarding Vg can be found on thewaybackmachine.com ? I am not sure what it has but I used it to look up old eqtraders.com when I played progression servers.. Might also be a tip for You p99 people?.
Oh and I am baffled, why are there no "they got fired in the parking lot" replies yet?.
Thanks Brad, for having visions and will to try again.
Originally posted by evilastro Nice comeback and spot on. They knew it was too early but had no choice.
Excuses are weak.
Where was the excuse?
They literally had no choice, SoE forced them to launch it. That's not an excuse, that's just a recount of history. An excuse would have been saying 'Oh we didn't finish it because half the development team were sick for 2 months'. The game never got the full development time that they had wanted, which is why it unsurprisingly released in an unfinished form.
I enjoyed Vanguard a lot the crafting in that game was second to none well may be early EQ 2 was close. My little adobe ,pity so many left the game but the chunking and various other issues did drive me away in the end. It had diplomacy and a lot of good ideas. I still have faith in him.
I really want Pantheon to be awesome, but I also don't like to burn money.
So, went looking for real information about the Vanguard problems (hoping to find old Brad posts).
What I did find was a couple links to forum posts from a developer on the Vanguard team (Nino). He was posting his thoughts on Vanguard and the team after the sell back to SOE.
Unfortunately, it looks like the site that was hosting the forums is now owned by Brad or something because it links to the Pantheon KS now. (it was the FOH guild forums)
It seems strange to me that someone would go through so much trouble to hide old form posts. I assume this was done recently because the KS project just started.
Brad doesnt own the FoH website. The site was active up until about a year ago when there was a huge blowout with the people who were running it and the site ended up being taken down. Most of the people who posted there went on to create a new site, rerolled.org. As a matter of fact, I think Brad may be posting in the Pantheon thread on the rerolled forums.
You would of thought the guy molested a busload of school children while pissing on the graves of ghandi, mother theresa, and babe ruth, all while wearing a justin bieber concert t shirt and fellating the ceo of EA with the amount of hate he gets.
He did worse; released a bad game. A sin for which this site never forgives.
Developers of other titles have been burned in effigy for far less serious crimes. Gamers do that, reflexively, and on forums you can expect legendary firestorm tempests made in tiny little teapots.
I'm not playing any MMORPG right now because I abandoned the genre like any sensible person should be doing right now. Nothing but trash has been made for the last decade and Vanguard is lightyear's away from being an exception.
And yet you are here?
I don't think you've abandoned it as much as you think you have.
As far as vanguard goes, one doesn't have to do quests. I still play and I rarely take quests, just explore, fight my way to new places, etc.
I swear "gamers" are their own worst enemy.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
so wait, you are accusing him of being a mindless drone when you're the one spouting off a bunch of unconfirmed horse crap that was sourced by one disgruntled employee and because of people who love to drink haterade on the internet got solidifed as internet "fact"??!!
Ripe, really, just, ripe.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
True. I can't say I am fond of his KS project presentation. The development stretch goals are wonky and liable to produce an incomplete game that might not should have been made unless he can score going on seven million. The benefits of donating are too little for too much. He has nothing to show in order to awe the general project supporter or wow them with the potential. He has his name and fame but it's not enough to sell a project on by itself.
From my perspective the best KS presentation yet done came from Chris Roberts for Star Citizen and other development teams would be wise to learn from what he did and is doing in that regard. If you can inspire us, the general donator, you will get your thirty million dollars and more...
Do you guys actually read this stuff before you post it?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that brad mcquaid somehow bought out the domain for one of the most prevalent guilds in MMO history, a guild that started out in EQ1, and had a prominent member of the guild hired by blizzard during the development of WOW, just so he could suppress some supposed proof of his dastardly deeds.
This is getting flipping ridiculous. I expect absurdity, especially on these forums but i continue to be surprised at every turn.
FoH stands for Fires of Heaven, btw, in case you feel like doing some more "research".
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
There's plenty of disgruntled employee's that posted about Sigil since that disaster if you want to go digging. Technically you could claim all of them are false because they were wronged and clearly bias. Unfortunatly the magnitude in which employee's were screwed makes their claims not only feasible.....but likely.
In the end alot of it is hearsay but that's not an excuse to stick your head in the sand either.
Please answer my question
Why walk into McDonalds if you don't even like hamburgers anymore?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
For a McRib and a fry?
I'm not trolling I really want to know, because your exact words were that anyone in their right mind would have abandoned this genre already. So that means that you have no hope in anything coming out and based on your post history you diss everything, so it seems like you are waiting for some mystical save all mmorpg.
And anyone in their right mind knows that the perfect mmo ain't going to happen *winks*
So I need to know for someone in their right mind who abandoned the genre as anyone should, why would they even be here? Why wait around for something when you already abandoned the genre..
See I abandoned the fighting game genre, so I no longer care what is coming out for it. Why? Because I abandoned it.
https://www.google.com/#q=Abandon+definition
a·ban·don
"he had clearly abandoned all pretense of trying to succeed"
<table vk_gy"="">Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I'm not the only one that thinks we've gotten 10 years of MMO garbage. Just because I don't enjoy MMO trash like Vanguard doesn't mean I'm waiting for the "MMO savior."
I hear what you're saying, but humans are fickle creatures, and words get twisted, time twists things, and people perceive things differently. There is a reason why the police rarely trust information given by witnesses. Its almost always false. One guy will say he was wearing a red hat, the other will say it was black. etc.
There is a really eye opening test. get 15 or so of your friends together in a line. Make up a sentence, something like "The cat ran across the street to fetch the dog a bone" Have the person at one end whisper it in the ear if the person next to the, who turns around and whispers it into the ear of the person next to the, etc, til you get to the end. You will be extremely surprised what you hear come out of that last persons mouth. I assure you it wont be anywhere close to what you said to the first person.
We're all perfectly aware of the mismanagement, we know he fucked up. We're just tired of the anti-christ level hatred that he gets, its completely unwarranted. You would of thought the guy molested a busload of school children while pissing on the graves of ghandi, mother theresa, and babe ruth, all while wearing a justin bieber concert t shirt and fellating the ceo of EA with the amount of hate he gets.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Don't know where to start really, there are a milion different things people can and have said. Some people are trying to hard to trash the man. Vanguard was Vanguard.. lessons learned for the whole gaming community. People are trying to personally attack him for not giving answers etc etc. He did give answers back in 2007, he said what happened, a few times. He has taken ownership many times.
Just think, your a fricken MMOG god... everyone knows you, loves your work. You start up a company thinking your going to gain complete control over your game..(thats right he left SoE cause he had less and less control over eq, and didn't like the direction it was going, plus head butting a few of the suites there). So now with a great new company, and a great new idea/ game world, you decide, what the heck let me see if my fellow developers / friends from the last 5 years, want to join me. Everything is coming along nicely, your trying to be a cool boss, to the point almost rebellious of the establishment thinking. Its churning along nicely with your small core of past friends and co-workers. You secure steady stream of funding, some times goes a product takes shape. The Suites, begin not wanting to fund your relaxed workplace ( or don't think you have too much to show for it), but you know your idea, and work enviroment will produce the next greatest thing since slice cheese and smaller needles. Time to ramp up... you bring in quite a few more peoples, that love the care free work atmosphere. Some even take advantage of it, but you still want to be the cool boss that encourages creative freedom and inspiration. You just can't bring yourself to becoming an dickhead to people, meanwhile your feeling sandwiched between the suites of the most powerful computer company of planet Earth, and the livelihood / dreams of your fellow friends. You bring in someone that can be the bad man, and start forcing production and a normalized pace, just a tad to late, that huge Software company does a calculated move, to get some of its money back. Forcing you to use your scarce resources, to buy back your dream.... your a MMOG God, you can still do it. You can pull it off!
You decide over the course of the next month... you need funding.. or people paychecks are going to start rubber balling .. these are your friends, you have to see them daily.. you know their kids names, you know their wives/ husbands. you have to get money... for the company to survive. Its ok though, you have someone there ( you think) that can handle it, can keep people working mush mush style. All your friends and the exp workers... they know whats going on, dropped from one Publisher .. they know its only a matter of time, why work 100% .. its all going down hill, and in a hurry. Some have even already left too! None of them hardly see you in the office anymore, the rumor mill starts, your whole company is imploding around. Finally you must come to the conclusion, some funding is better no funding. Your old company that just recently ( 2.5 years earlier) released their new flagship game, to sub par reviews..which knows your game could be the nail in the coffin for their flagship, decide they are going to life-support fund you, ( really they just wanted to get in and see if your game really is going to kill theirs), they pledge support, and engineers, and coders to help get your game to market. Cause the cost of this Life support is only good for 6 months. Suites again decide to tell you, your going to launch and launch now you will, cause they need their money back ( plus they know it would die, and thus be no real competition for the flag-ship). Wait where is all that support from that huge game company that you made so much money for... oh they pulled them, your a live game now. You made box sales.. fix your own game. Wait, someone at the huge game company thinks it thru, they don't really want you to fix your game. They tell you you have made a great game.. but they can't help you no more, but they can buy it from you, so that you can pay off all your debts, and hmm give you a little extra for all your troubles. But if they buy it, you have to agree to never talk about.. the huge game company doesn't want loyal fans and current employee's/dev's to know how they black-balled you. In exchange for all this, we will keep most of your employees ( keeping them with a job), all you have to do its sign this NDA, and you'll have your old position back, as our bitch.
So goes your company! Now after all the success of your past games/ developments with the huge company.. old friends and co -workers stare at you constantly ridiculing you. Your company's old employee are now starting to get the axe. The renewed support claims for your game never come true... matter of fact, it seems the big company just wants a pretty picture of your game on their value catalog. But too late, you can't say anything, or else you get sued for violating your contracts.. you just can't save face anymore, and decide to leave.
Some years go by.. some think tanks, are ready to admit defeat... they need a new game. They need you to come help vision wise. Wow great someone wants you, and you need a job. After getting in, and you see how the new games, are nothing but cash cows, and not taking care of the customers in the right way, your reminded your just here to be their bitch-boy and help watch the 10 dollar an hour developers stay to true to the franchise name. Oh the big Company is now up crap creek, and need to save some cash, don't worry your safe, its all those 10 dollar guys that are going to loose their job. You decide, you know what " I am Mutha' puggin Brad McQuaid, and I don't want to work for these d-bags, I want to make a real game" . You decide, to leave the big company, (permanently this time) so that those 10 dollar an hour guys can keep their jobs... Some of your past co-workers drop everything and leave with ya ( that alone should speak volumes), your all excited, this time your going to do it, your going to make a great game everyone will love.
But first, you got to get thru all the dumasses, trying to make up comments on some web forum.. you got to deal with everyone trying to stab ya in the back again and again and again..All the out right lies being told about you, meanwhile the BIg gaming company closely monitoring you.. to make sure you don't violate that contract...you can't tell anyone what really happened. You have to just trust, that everything will work out in the end. You have to just get over it, and do what you do best... make games that people will love. You can't worry about what people are going to say...
Your Brad McQuaid
So then why are you still here? Are you so convinced that you have to save us poor peons?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Lolwut???
The fact is, he pissed away millions and had to scramble at the end to get anything done but only after he went crawling on his hands and knees back to soe to get more money. I would almost say he had very little to do with any "success" Vanguard had because he was never fucking there. It was left up to everyone else working at Sigil to make the game because MCQuaid was an absentee owner. That super awesome diplomacy system people rave about? Brad had almost nothing to do with it. It was designed by others. Lets not forget that he shit canned nearly ALL of his staff in the parking lot. Oh wait, it wasn't Brad that told his employees they were fired, that fun chore was left to Jeff Butler. McQuaid didn't even have the balls to look his employees in the face and tell them himself.
I found this very telling of the type of atmosphere working at Sigil was like:
"What of Sigil chairman and CEO Brad McQuaid? "He has a consulting arrangement and we will tap into his expertise as needed," says Simmons. The Vanguard co-creator was vexingly absent for all of this, and for a whole lot more, according to some reports. Former Sigil employees claim that he's been in absentia for the past six months and the last time he showed up on the office was last Friday to pick up all his HeroClix figures and take his pictures down. When reached earlier today, McQuaid declined to comment."
http://www.1up.com/news/sigil-firestorm
Yeah, your God King of MMO developers wasn't even involved in Vanguard for the 6 months before it all fell apart. So much for your conspiracy theory. I've said this before but I'll say it again, anyone that gives this man money is a fool and deserves to lose it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
when I bought this game at release it was so bugged I couldn't even do quests.it was so badly done.but I decided to stay and give it a chance.i was glad I did because its one hell of a game.
It may not be has successful as wow or other games but here we are 7 yrs on and its still running.Leth Nurae was my favourite spot.the music and atmosphere was fantastic.Brad's vision for the game was great.its just a shame it never turned out that way.i think SOE did ok by making the game playable so much so I played non stop for 2.5 yrs.i hope he has learnt his lesson and does Pantheon right.If he does I will be there.Vanguard is just about done now so having this game ready it will take over where Vanguard left off.HOPEFULLY
Excuses are weak.
Vanguard was the mmo that really broke my back for all hope about the future of this genre. I hated EQ2 and WoW and had all my hopes riding on VG. Bought the collectors edition for my friend and I, then we were entirely destroyed by what we played.
After a lot of searching for truths and facts about why it was such a train wreck it turned out that Brad was/is a fantastic visionary and game designer, but literally the worst boss, money manager, etc. But the whole Microsoft switch up/pull out completely screwed VG. SOE helped just get the game to see a launch, but they didn't really help VG fix or polish anything because why would you help a game that might crush your own game (EQ2).
Brad is still Brad, so I really have no hopes for his new game since he is at the helm again. I was excited about him returning as a dev on VG but he didn't seem to want to stay at all. Brad, you are a great game maker, just stop trying to be the CEO.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Good news is Brad has stated he is going to hire a project manager / CEO to allow him to concentrate on the creative side of the game. He is only going to be the CCO.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Maybe his 4 page reply regarding Vg can be found on thewaybackmachine.com ? I am not sure what it has but I used it to look up old eqtraders.com when I played progression servers.. Might also be a tip for You p99 people?.
Oh and I am baffled, why are there no "they got fired in the parking lot" replies yet?.
Thanks Brad, for having visions and will to try again.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Where was the excuse?
They literally had no choice, SoE forced them to launch it. That's not an excuse, that's just a recount of history. An excuse would have been saying 'Oh we didn't finish it because half the development team were sick for 2 months'. The game never got the full development time that they had wanted, which is why it unsurprisingly released in an unfinished form.
I enjoyed Vanguard a lot the crafting in that game was second to none well may be early EQ 2 was close. My little adobe ,pity so many left the game but the chunking and various other issues did drive me away in the end. It had diplomacy and a lot of good ideas. I still have faith in him.
Brad doesnt own the FoH website. The site was active up until about a year ago when there was a huge blowout with the people who were running it and the site ended up being taken down. Most of the people who posted there went on to create a new site, rerolled.org. As a matter of fact, I think Brad may be posting in the Pantheon thread on the rerolled forums.
He did worse; released a bad game. A sin for which this site never forgives.
Developers of other titles have been burned in effigy for far less serious crimes. Gamers do that, reflexively, and on forums you can expect legendary firestorm tempests made in tiny little teapots.
He's a big boy, white knights need not apply.Except the part where in roughly 6 months it was fixed and finished. Around 12 months new content starts dropping... so yeah... hows that crow taste?
And yet you are here?
I don't think you've abandoned it as much as you think you have.
As far as vanguard goes, one doesn't have to do quests. I still play and I rarely take quests, just explore, fight my way to new places, etc.
I swear "gamers" are their own worst enemy.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo