Originally posted by Fionn Crafting should support your adventure, not be the end game.
Well, that's exactly the set up we have in ESO. You slay a dragon to get dragon scales (adventure), then you use a crafter to further enhance your adventure by making you some dragonscale armor (the exact type you want) out of said scales. It's really quite basic fantasy experience.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Fionn Crafting should never be better than end game adventure loot. Crafting should support your adventure, not be the end game. Anybody who disagrees wants the game to fail. Period.
Originally posted by Fionn Crafting should support your adventure, not be the end game.
Well, that's exactly the set up we have in ESO. You slay a dragon to get dragon scales (adventure), then you use a crafter to further enhance your adventure by making you some dragonscale armor (the exact type you want) out of said scales. It's really quite basic fantasy experience.
You got proof of that? So far, the upgrade oils/items are the only rare things are required for Legendary items. Someone said earlier they found epic upgrade items that were very rare in mining nodes.
Which means, the rare component in these Legendary items is going to be minable, obtainable from killing mobs, and deconstructing items, even if it is very rare, its going to take a lot of time to obtain these tempers. (Upgrade items)
NO RAID DROPS HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED YET.
Legendary Upgrade items have not been found yet. But every other upgrade item (tempers) UP TO LEGENDARY has been found in mining, mob drops, and deconstructing of armor/weapons.
Take that information, and add it with the fact that a lot of armor could be Green or EPIC at lets say Rank 10, all you would need to do to upgrade those Green armor/weapons into BEST end game items would be TEMPERS (upgrade items) to raise it to Legendary. Once you make it Legendary you have the BEST END GAME GEAR/WEAPON.
So HOW do we find LEGENDARY TEMPER upgrade items is the GRAND DADDY QUESTIION! If its like all the other TEMPERS, then it would be from mining nodes, mobs and deconstructing armor/weapons.
The dragon scale thing? Nope, that was just a RP-type example of the system. I've read that a lot of the components come from deconstructing higher level items, which come from dungeons (i.e. slaying dragons). (and i would assume raids, although we know nothing about raids at this point).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I am an end-game player, therefore I want the best gear possible in order to make sure I am contributing as much as possible. If the best gear possible is only available through crafting, then I am forced into crafting in order to meet my goal of being able to contribute to my groups as much as possible.
You're not forced into crafting, you're forced into commerce. THat is NOT the same thing. (I.e. buy from a crafer, or hire crafter to make using your materials). There is absolutely no requirement to make the stuff yourself.
Just like the crafter is not forced into adventuring. There is absolutely no requirement to obtain all crafting ingredients yourself, can just buy from an adventurer or have your client provide his own ingredients.
Well, i suppose crafters are forced into adventuring a bit, since they need to get to the special crafting stations that may be in dungeon or whatnot. But trust me, if i'm an adventurer desperate to get that special sword made, i'll escort your gimp crafter ass to the right forge
I prefer the days when I could max out my gear through gameplay instead of having to deal with crafters or commerce or whatever you want to call it. The only reason this type of thing is becoming so popular is because of how much Anet is gaining in profits by their gem buying/selling system. If they force you into commerce by attaching it to your gear, you'll end up helping to drive their profits as people buy gems.
I want nothing to do with commerce or crafting. If I finish the big bad end-game stuff, I want my gear to standalone.
The only reason this type of thing is becoming so popular is because of how much Anet is gaining in profits by their gem buying/selling system. If they force you into commerce by attaching it to your gear, you'll end up helping to drive their profits as people buy gems.
UHm... crafting creating top end items is "becoming popular"? idk what planet you're on, but nearly every major MMO in the last 10 years has had a system where top end items are almost exclusively obtained from drops.
Crafting high end gear WAS popular maybe a decade ago in the first generation of MMOs and a few random ones since (like SWG and EVE), but aside from that, it's anything but "becoming popular".
I've idea what anet is or what gems you're talking about either, but that's probably because I don't play whatever game that refers to. (WoW?)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Stuka1000 Now all we need is item degradation so that crafters do not become obsolete. It should however only degrade slowly so items eventually need to be replaced or repaired by a crafter ( not any NPC merchant ) and not so fast that it becomes unfair to the player. SWG had a good system but the degradation was too fast.
There is "pull effect" to encourage players between 1 and 50 to replace their gear frequently, due to the fact that every 2 levels you can craft a piece with better stats. From 51 to 60 you can get a better piece made every single level.
So the "push effect" of durability degrading is not there. There player is never "forced" to replace gear, but the option is there to upgrade constantly.
The fact that breaking down equipment is an important source for upgrade materials introduces an interesting side-effect. Any cheap items on the AH will be snapped-up very fast for reprocessing. Green or higher items will most likely be in very high demand as well, not only because they yield higher-tier upgrade mats, but because they are needed for trait research.
There is no AH and most people will try and make their own items... or ask a buddy to do it for free(with mats). Also since rerolling is not encouraged(one toon can more or less do it all, he is only missing other class skills but since you can only have 6 at a time it won`t matter that much he can just get similar ones from other trees) once everyone has what they want... that`s it.
It will be funny as with instances you can end up looking for a crafter that can do a particular item for hours and not find him(he may be in another instance of the same area)... doubt people will want to experience that...
That is also a problem for crafters... you have no way to reach your customers unless you join a "crafting guild" as i`m sure they will exist, a guild that most people know it has mostly crafters so they will visit their shop. Doubtful people will bother visiting other shops just to waste their time if they know that one guild most likely has what they want or can make it....
I could go on but i can find a lot of problems with this.. mostly due to no AH...
The only reason this type of thing is becoming so popular is because of how much Anet is gaining in profits by their gem buying/selling system. If they force you into commerce by attaching it to your gear, you'll end up helping to drive their profits as people buy gems.
UHm... crafting creating top end items is "becoming popular"? idk what planet you're on, but nearly every major MMO in the last 10 years has had a system where top end items are almost exclusively obtained from drops.
Crafting high end gear WAS popular maybe a decade ago in the first generation of MMOs and a few random ones since (like SWG and EVE), but aside from that, it's anything but "becoming popular".
I've idea what anet is or what gems you're talking about either, but that's probably because I don't play whatever game that refers to. (WoW?)
I meant becoming as in recently, not games from 10 years ago.
The game I was referring to was GW2. Basically, Anet sells their online currency. The price that Anet sells it at fluctuates based on supply and demand. By attaching their cash shop currency directly to the in game economy, they are making a great deal of money.
Though, you can of ran off with a side point that was rather irrelevant to the main point that I don't want any crafting or commerce requirements placed on obtaining endgame gear. It should be available through crafting/commerce, but not exclusive to it.
I could level an alt to max level and just purchase the gear I needed and move onto the point of the game, RvR.(or gear for specific BG's like Thidranki etc)
The only reason this type of thing is becoming so popular is because of how much Anet is gaining in profits by their gem buying/selling system. If they force you into commerce by attaching it to your gear, you'll end up helping to drive their profits as people buy gems.
UHm... crafting creating top end items is "becoming popular"? idk what planet you're on, but nearly every major MMO in the last 10 years has had a system where top end items are almost exclusively obtained from drops.
Crafting high end gear WAS popular maybe a decade ago in the first generation of MMOs and a few random ones since (like SWG and EVE), but aside from that, it's anything but "becoming popular".
I've idea what anet is or what gems you're talking about either, but that's probably because I don't play whatever game that refers to. (WoW?)
I meant becoming as in recently, not games from 10 years ago.
The game I was referring to was GW2. Basically, Anet sells their online currency. The price that Anet sells it at fluctuates based on supply and demand. By attaching their cash shop currency directly to the in game economy, they are making a great deal of money.
Though, you can of ran off with a side point that was rather irrelevant to the main point that I don't want any crafting or commerce requirements placed on obtaining endgame gear. It should be available through crafting/commerce, but not exclusive to it.
They stated that you can craft end game gear they also stated that it can drop but you have to get it enchanted to get max effect, even wow do this so whats the problem really?
I bet its becouse all the hardcore pve'rs cant have those exclusive top tier items and pwn none hardcore pver's in pvp with said items.
Why should a hardcore pve'r be able to get all things for himself when none hardcore pvers and crafters cant?
A pure crafter need you adventurers to get materials ( talking about green to yellow items for upgrade components ) since his hierling wont be enough to craft his armor he want for himself or to sell to other players that cant be arsed to put in hours to do the hardest content but just want to pvp.
And vise verca you need said crafter to upgrade ur gear to max level and probabely have to pay a few tempers ( or coin or something else who knows) for it since he put in alot of time and materials to become the crafter.
Comments
Well, that's exactly the set up we have in ESO. You slay a dragon to get dragon scales (adventure), then you use a crafter to further enhance your adventure by making you some dragonscale armor (the exact type you want) out of said scales. It's really quite basic fantasy experience.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Okay Fionn, glad you got this all figured out.
You got proof of that? So far, the upgrade oils/items are the only rare things are required for Legendary items. Someone said earlier they found epic upgrade items that were very rare in mining nodes.
Which means, the rare component in these Legendary items is going to be minable, obtainable from killing mobs, and deconstructing items, even if it is very rare, its going to take a lot of time to obtain these tempers. (Upgrade items)
NO RAID DROPS HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED YET.
Legendary Upgrade items have not been found yet. But every other upgrade item (tempers) UP TO LEGENDARY has been found in mining, mob drops, and deconstructing of armor/weapons.
Take that information, and add it with the fact that a lot of armor could be Green or EPIC at lets say Rank 10, all you would need to do to upgrade those Green armor/weapons into BEST end game items would be TEMPERS (upgrade items) to raise it to Legendary. Once you make it Legendary you have the BEST END GAME GEAR/WEAPON.
So HOW do we find LEGENDARY TEMPER upgrade items is the GRAND DADDY QUESTIION!
If its like all the other TEMPERS, then it would be from mining nodes, mobs and deconstructing armor/weapons.
The dragon scale thing? Nope, that was just a RP-type example of the system. I've read that a lot of the components come from deconstructing higher level items, which come from dungeons (i.e. slaying dragons). (and i would assume raids, although we know nothing about raids at this point).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I prefer the days when I could max out my gear through gameplay instead of having to deal with crafters or commerce or whatever you want to call it. The only reason this type of thing is becoming so popular is because of how much Anet is gaining in profits by their gem buying/selling system. If they force you into commerce by attaching it to your gear, you'll end up helping to drive their profits as people buy gems.
I want nothing to do with commerce or crafting. If I finish the big bad end-game stuff, I want my gear to standalone.
UHm... crafting creating top end items is "becoming popular"? idk what planet you're on, but nearly every major MMO in the last 10 years has had a system where top end items are almost exclusively obtained from drops.
Crafting high end gear WAS popular maybe a decade ago in the first generation of MMOs and a few random ones since (like SWG and EVE), but aside from that, it's anything but "becoming popular".
I've idea what anet is or what gems you're talking about either, but that's probably because I don't play whatever game that refers to. (WoW?)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
There is no AH and most people will try and make their own items... or ask a buddy to do it for free(with mats). Also since rerolling is not encouraged(one toon can more or less do it all, he is only missing other class skills but since you can only have 6 at a time it won`t matter that much he can just get similar ones from other trees) once everyone has what they want... that`s it.
It will be funny as with instances you can end up looking for a crafter that can do a particular item for hours and not find him(he may be in another instance of the same area)... doubt people will want to experience that...
That is also a problem for crafters... you have no way to reach your customers unless you join a "crafting guild" as i`m sure they will exist, a guild that most people know it has mostly crafters so they will visit their shop. Doubtful people will bother visiting other shops just to waste their time if they know that one guild most likely has what they want or can make it....
I could go on but i can find a lot of problems with this.. mostly due to no AH...
I meant becoming as in recently, not games from 10 years ago.
The game I was referring to was GW2. Basically, Anet sells their online currency. The price that Anet sells it at fluctuates based on supply and demand. By attaching their cash shop currency directly to the in game economy, they are making a great deal of money.
Though, you can of ran off with a side point that was rather irrelevant to the main point that I don't want any crafting or commerce requirements placed on obtaining endgame gear. It should be available through crafting/commerce, but not exclusive to it.
As it should be IMO.
This is what I loved about DAoC Pre-ToA.
I could level an alt to max level and just purchase the gear I needed and move onto the point of the game, RvR.(or gear for specific BG's like Thidranki etc)
Glad to see this and hope it stays this way.
The question is do you "have to" be a crafter to craft the best gear in the game.
Another question is "how tedious" is it to craft the best gear in the game.
They stated that you can craft end game gear they also stated that it can drop but you have to get it enchanted to get max effect, even wow do this so whats the problem really?
I bet its becouse all the hardcore pve'rs cant have those exclusive top tier items and pwn none hardcore pver's in pvp with said items.
Why should a hardcore pve'r be able to get all things for himself when none hardcore pvers and crafters cant?
A pure crafter need you adventurers to get materials ( talking about green to yellow items for upgrade components ) since his hierling wont be enough to craft his armor he want for himself or to sell to other players that cant be arsed to put in hours to do the hardest content but just want to pvp.
And vise verca you need said crafter to upgrade ur gear to max level and probabely have to pay a few tempers ( or coin or something else who knows) for it since he put in alot of time and materials to become the crafter.