Can it be stickied next to the promise that the subscription fee would include everything the game has to offer with never an option denied unless you pay for it? Like say denying the option to a race without paying extra...
Just so people know what to expect from Zenimax's promises.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
They ALL say no "F2P is planned" ... always. TERA said it, SWTOR said it, AoC, Aion, WAR, etc ... hell even Rift said it until the day they announced it and it was discovered they were actually planning to do so for over a year before they announced it. They lie about it to the very end then disappear when its announced. Not that I wish for this or any MMO to go F2P but chances are that unless it pulls a WoW out of its ass its going to go F2P.
The ONLY company I trust to not go F2P right now is Squarenix. They have at least proven they stick to their guns with FFXI which they have kept P2P despite low subs. True, Zenimax is a new company that hasnt caved to F2P, mostly because its the first MMO theyve made, BUT! so far they havent exactly shown good ethics in the "anything for an extra dime" department.
Good ole false promises from a game director. If this hadn't occurred so many times in the past I might believe him!
Let me explain what is really being said here....There is no IN GAME cash shop. The cash shop will need to be accessed from the website and cannot be accessed from the game. See? If your not blinded by fanboy emotions is clear as day.
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
this is not meant to be a discussion topic, but as a fact and a statement... There is no reason to discuss this for now and the future anyhow, as there are no plans either to go free to play ... Just accept this as a fact...
So Matt Firor says there WILL be a cash shop....
Then extremely quickly Paul Sage makes Matt Firor look like a complete idiot by totally contradicting him, with the Reddit post urging people to only link the quote saying there will NOT be a cash shop when discussing the issue because it's hurting the game.
How fishy is all that? How stupid do people think consumers are? How many times have we seen this in the past......
"No we will never have a cash shop, we are only going to be sub only, we wont gouge and milk OUR loyal fans"......when in reality it has transpired time and time again that a cash shop was always in the roadmap......
One of those individuals was lying. One of them was already hitting the damage limitation button imo as cash shops at launch of sub based MMORPGs have become synonomous with failure and a nickel n dime them till it dies a quick death mentality.
This guy has no idea wtf he is talking about for tera at least.. when the game had a sub.. there was no costume's..
Wrong. There were cash shop and costumes since very early on. I was planning on buying the game even and decided not to for that very reason. They had exclusive weapons on the cash shop and even "summer" costumes so all the little teen boys can spank it to their elves wearing bikini's. This was in the first few months of release mind you while they were still P2P.
Yeah I don't trust that the game won't go F2P shortly after launch.
Look at TERA, I purchased collectors edition paid over $100 for a game that I didn't even play for 8 hours before saying im done because of the UI Font Size bug on smaller monitors.
On top of this I was told that the game would not be pay 2 enjoy or other words charge for cosmetic items but shortly after game Goes F2P and here we go Cash Shop Pay 2 Enjoy.
I think the same thing is going to happen with ESO players will play it for a month or two if that then they will be like This game sucks, now I could be wrong but based on my Beta experience with the game the game is bad lacked all the content I would want to see in a 2014 MMO Release, and locked character classes rather than going sand-box based allowing players to develop their own unique race story line & play all classes on a single character.
you are forgeting that most people SOLD cash shop items on the market >>. i sold outfits that i knew people wanted and it was not overly priced as well. 8k for an outfit that cost around 9 bucks. ATLEAST tera made them trabeable. most mmos bind them once you but. and i dont see ESO going that way seeing how it has its OWN unique style that we have come to expect from an ES title.
I am not sure if you played ESO beta, but like almost all my guilds /clan members tried the game to be honest I played one Beta test, my character was wiped, reported every bug I found, and after that I didn't bother to play again the game is boring as hell I can compared ESO to Rift / Guild Wars 2, because that is what ESO feels like to me.
Sure its got different mechanics/classes and alliance system, but they didn't develop it properly the game needed to be designed around a sand-box based game where players are free to make their own choices, I let the developers know my feed-back there but of course chances of them changing all this before release of the game is almost unlikely, which is why im not buying ESO because I think the game is going to Fail, I think that a game like Star Citizen will be successful however.
Yes Tera might allow players to trade items, but I don't like cash shops at all, I like games where I can play a flat monthly fee, go see a barber-shop any time I want to change my appearance in a game and change it any time I please. When I play a game like Tera where I have to pay for a item just to change my appearance, or a game like Vindictus with so many restrictions even for a paying customer, or even Perfect Worlds games I don't even bother paying a dime after looking at their cash shop I take one look and say I am done with this game especially when it comes to PWI for example and the way they run their cash shop. Also I would rather have a Cash Shop, that allows me to buy the item and claim it for all my characters not a single character only, and not having to send items in mail to other characters on my account.
Another company similar to PWI is NCsoft I absolutely hate them Aion for example I could stand to play their game if they gave me a $15 flat rate unlimited item housing/customization, and allowed me to use the barber-shop in the game any time I please without paying $10 for a ticket I would subscribe to the game even pay $20 a month for the game + cash shop cosmetic items, but because of their Greed I am not interested in the game at all.
So when it comes down to it, I think ESO will start out as a Pay 2 Play game, but over time based on Beta, unless the developers change the actual game and make major changes before release or after release I think the initial sales of the game will be high, but after 30 days players I think will finally hit level cap and start to get bored of the game unless changes come to the game.
It will likely start out with adding cosmetic items for sale in the market, or expansion packs and such, and then after that it will likely go full F2P once the game fails or F2P up to a certain level or such.
I understand new MMO players might like ESO with the way it is, but as a 8+ year MMO player I absolutely tell you that in the last beta's I played ESO feels like every other MMO that I have played, and this is exactly why I think it will go F2P down the road.
I took a look on You-Tube at the Elder Scrolls, game-play videos, and I have played Skyrim, to me the game doesn't look or feel like those games it feels very tab-targeting, and class/alliance locked not something I like.
General opinion of people that played the latest beta tests disagrees with you... The PvE is immersive, the dungeons are challenging and fun and PvP rocks big time...
on top of that, it will be the first big MMO on the new consoles... DCUO never was a true MMO world experience, ( however it was kind of fun )
The general consensus of opinions from the previews and beta feedback I have read suggests:
Abysmal starting zones
Clunky, paper combat
Boring quests / lacklustre PvE
Bad / choppy animations
In fact the only thing I have seen receive mainly universal praise is the PvP aspect of the game....
The feedback from beta testers directly is the major reason I am still on the fence regards the game if I am honest.
I for forsee Sage taking over this products development after Firor has to mysteriously leave the company and go start a beer factory in somewhere in canada to research a better brew. IMHO Sage should have been the face and shot caller, guys got that bluesteel look and seems to have better sense.
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
Seriously they could have made the interview nothing but game director belching and farting and fanboys would spin it into some kind of great fact about the game. OH OH MATT SAID FRAAAPPPP, THAT MEANS ESO OPEN WORLD LUL!
The only fact you presented is that game director said there is no IN GAME cash shop. That's not the same as there actually not being one. And honestly doesn't anyone else find it wierd they go out of their way to specify "IN GAME" when they talk about the cash shop. Almost as if they are covering themselves...so when they release the website cash shop FOR the game....they can claim they never lied. Elementry my dear fanbois
Seriously they could have made the interview nothing but game director belching and farting and fanboys would spin it into some kind of great fact about the game. OH OH MATT SAID FRAAAPPPP, THAT MEANS ESO OPEN WORLD LUL!
The only fact you presented is that game director said there is no IN GAME cash shop. That's not the same as there actually not being one. And honestly doesn't anyone else find it wierd they go out of their way to specify "IN GAME" when they talk about the cash shop. Almost as if they are covering themselves...so when they release the website cash shop FOR the game....they can claim they never lied. Elementry my dear fanbois
This exactly...
It's an all to obvious setup so that when they officially announce their cash shop, they can follow up with "See, we never lied.." in a vain effort to cover their ass.
Also, how the OP can claim his opinion is a fact when his own link confirms that even two senior members of the same company cannot agree on whether they is or is not a cash shop incoming is beyond me. That whole plea from the Reddit poster urging people to only link Sages comments when discussing the issue of a cash shop just came accross as really, really desperate too
Every naysayers opinion is highly based on assumptions, while my statement is based on facts...
i dont see any reason for discussion, other then the naysayers Epeen.
Your statement is nothing more than your own opinion. It is in no way a fact.
A senior representative of the company making the game disagrees with you....
Driz
Well, exactly, and the fact that the lead developers said there will be no casshop is just my opinion?
sure thing sir... Sounds like a lot of logic to me.
So Matt Firor was flat out lying then?
The point I am making, as you well know, is that we have a situation whereby two senior reps from the same company cannot even agree between themselves whether or not a cash shop is incoming.
Ergo, you choosing to believe Sage over Firor because it suits your agenda does not make Sages comments, or your opinion a fact. As per your own link, Firor clearly has a different view of the cash shop plan
They cannot both be right. Until we get a definitive answer you cannot claim either statement to be a fact. I think most rational adults can read between the lines though.....
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
this is not meant to be a discussion topic, but as a fact and a statement... There is no reason to discuss this for now and the future anyhow, as there are no plans either to go free to play ... Just accept this as a fact...
Nice edit. I'd been looking for something like this before, and could only find that quote about the shop having 'fun stuff'. Makes me ecstatic to know that it's purely limited to name changes/account services and has no bearing, whatsoever, on vanity items/gamechanging items.
Something you guys are forgetting, TESO doesnt have investors.
Bethesda/Zenimax, like Blizzard, has pockets deep enough to fund their own game. There won't be Investor Pressure for RoI, they are essentially doing what Square Enix is, in that they decide internally what kind of numbers are good enough and therefore are able to stick to a subscription.
Whether or not they do so is another story, but investors and external pressure to monetize isn't part of it.
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
those quotes are from Sept 2013
before it was revealed that Imperials are a "pay with cash" race
Now if only imperials didn't have such inferior racials, I might agree with Pay to Win arguments.
Most games have some kind of vanity crap associated with their collector's editions. It's a one time thing to help sell them. Just be glad it's remained vanity, as a lot of MMOs like throwing in exclusive equipment that actually gives serious bonuses.
Take, for instance, Starcraft 2, CE. If you order that, you get special Kerrigan wings for your Diablo 3 characters that can not be acquired any other way.
Or how about all these Kickstarter games where bigger backers are getting shit like Houses and Castles and bullshit (ie. Pathfinder Online.) A sub-par race is hardly worth whining about. I'd happily sell you mine if I could, because I'm never touching Imperial.
Something you guys are forgetting, TESO doesnt have investors.
Bethesda/Zenimax, like Blizzard, has pockets deep enough to fund their own game. There won't be Investor Pressure for RoI, they are essentially doing what Square Enix is, in that they decide internally what kind of numbers are good enough and therefore are able to stick to a subscription.
Whether or not they do so is another story, but investors and external pressure to monetize isn't part of it.
Maybe not.
Zenimax has received $450M in private investment funding since 2007...
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
this is not meant to be a discussion topic, but as a fact and a statement... There is no reason to discuss this for now and the future anyhow, as there are no plans either to go free to play ... Just accept this as a fact...
The game wont go free to play, the only time it might is when EQN comes out or one of these top end kickstarters but that wont be for years so we got nothing to worry about.
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
this is not meant to be a discussion topic, but as a fact and a statement... There is no reason to discuss this for now and the future anyhow, as there are no plans either to go free to play ... Just accept this as a fact...
The game wont go free to play, the only time it might is when EQN comes out or one of these top end kickstarters but that wont be for years so we got nothing to worry about.
ESO has too much of a focus on PvP to ever be threatened by EQN.
please everyone read the above link, and make it a sticky, so we dont have these pay to win topics pop up atleast 2 times a day.
this is not meant to be a discussion topic, but as a fact and a statement... There is no reason to discuss this for now and the future anyhow, as there are no plans either to go free to play ... Just accept this as a fact...
The game wont go free to play, the only time it might is when EQN comes out or one of these top end kickstarters but that wont be for years so we got nothing to worry about.
I dont think free to play will work well on consoles with both microsoft adn sony demanding part of your money..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Can it be stickied next to the promise that the subscription fee would include everything the game has to offer with never an option denied unless you pay for it? Like say denying the option to a race without paying extra...
Just so people know what to expect from Zenimax's promises.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
They ALL say no "F2P is planned" ... always. TERA said it, SWTOR said it, AoC, Aion, WAR, etc ... hell even Rift said it until the day they announced it and it was discovered they were actually planning to do so for over a year before they announced it. They lie about it to the very end then disappear when its announced. Not that I wish for this or any MMO to go F2P but chances are that unless it pulls a WoW out of its ass its going to go F2P.
The ONLY company I trust to not go F2P right now is Squarenix. They have at least proven they stick to their guns with FFXI which they have kept P2P despite low subs. True, Zenimax is a new company that hasnt caved to F2P, mostly because its the first MMO theyve made, BUT! so far they havent exactly shown good ethics in the "anything for an extra dime" department.
Good ole false promises from a game director. If this hadn't occurred so many times in the past I might believe him!
Let me explain what is really being said here....There is no IN GAME cash shop. The cash shop will need to be accessed from the website and cannot be accessed from the game. See? If your not blinded by fanboy emotions is clear as day.
So Matt Firor says there WILL be a cash shop....
Then extremely quickly Paul Sage makes Matt Firor look like a complete idiot by totally contradicting him, with the Reddit post urging people to only link the quote saying there will NOT be a cash shop when discussing the issue because it's hurting the game.
How fishy is all that? How stupid do people think consumers are? How many times have we seen this in the past......
"No we will never have a cash shop, we are only going to be sub only, we wont gouge and milk OUR loyal fans"......when in reality it has transpired time and time again that a cash shop was always in the roadmap......
One of those individuals was lying. One of them was already hitting the damage limitation button imo as cash shops at launch of sub based MMORPGs have become synonomous with failure and a nickel n dime them till it dies a quick death mentality.
History repeats itself with ESO it seems
Driz
Wrong. There were cash shop and costumes since very early on. I was planning on buying the game even and decided not to for that very reason. They had exclusive weapons on the cash shop and even "summer" costumes so all the little teen boys can spank it to their elves wearing bikini's. This was in the first few months of release mind you while they were still P2P.
Every naysayers opinion is highly based on assumptions, while my statement is based on facts...
i dont see any reason for discussion, other then the naysayers Epeen.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The general consensus of opinions from the previews and beta feedback I have read suggests:
Abysmal starting zones
Clunky, paper combat
Boring quests / lacklustre PvE
Bad / choppy animations
In fact the only thing I have seen receive mainly universal praise is the PvP aspect of the game....
The feedback from beta testers directly is the major reason I am still on the fence regards the game if I am honest.
Driz
How can it be a fact when we have two official representatives complete contradicting each other?
Driz
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
Your statement is nothing more than your own opinion. It is in no way a fact.
A senior representative of the company making the game disagrees with you....
Driz
Doesn't matter what the link says.
There will be an option to upgrade your game to an imperial edition...
Seriously they could have made the interview nothing but game director belching and farting and fanboys would spin it into some kind of great fact about the game. OH OH MATT SAID FRAAAPPPP, THAT MEANS ESO OPEN WORLD LUL!
The only fact you presented is that game director said there is no IN GAME cash shop. That's not the same as there actually not being one. And honestly doesn't anyone else find it wierd they go out of their way to specify "IN GAME" when they talk about the cash shop. Almost as if they are covering themselves...so when they release the website cash shop FOR the game....they can claim they never lied. Elementry my dear fanbois
those quotes are from Sept 2013
before it was revealed that Imperials are a "pay with cash" race
EQ2 fan sites
This exactly...
It's an all to obvious setup so that when they officially announce their cash shop, they can follow up with "See, we never lied.." in a vain effort to cover their ass.
Also, how the OP can claim his opinion is a fact when his own link confirms that even two senior members of the same company cannot agree on whether they is or is not a cash shop incoming is beyond me. That whole plea from the Reddit poster urging people to only link Sages comments when discussing the issue of a cash shop just came accross as really, really desperate too
Driz
Well, exactly, and the fact that the lead developers said there will be no casshop is just my opinion?
sure thing sir... Sounds like a lot of logic to me.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
So Matt Firor was flat out lying then?
The point I am making, as you well know, is that we have a situation whereby two senior reps from the same company cannot even agree between themselves whether or not a cash shop is incoming.
Ergo, you choosing to believe Sage over Firor because it suits your agenda does not make Sages comments, or your opinion a fact. As per your own link, Firor clearly has a different view of the cash shop plan
They cannot both be right. Until we get a definitive answer you cannot claim either statement to be a fact. I think most rational adults can read between the lines though.....
Driz
LOL, yeah, I saw this first posted and it's blossomed into a 3-page discussion!
Nice edit. I'd been looking for something like this before, and could only find that quote about the shop having 'fun stuff'. Makes me ecstatic to know that it's purely limited to name changes/account services and has no bearing, whatsoever, on vanity items/gamechanging items.
Thanks for this post.
Something you guys are forgetting, TESO doesnt have investors.
Bethesda/Zenimax, like Blizzard, has pockets deep enough to fund their own game. There won't be Investor Pressure for RoI, they are essentially doing what Square Enix is, in that they decide internally what kind of numbers are good enough and therefore are able to stick to a subscription.
Whether or not they do so is another story, but investors and external pressure to monetize isn't part of it.
Now if only imperials didn't have such inferior racials, I might agree with Pay to Win arguments.
Most games have some kind of vanity crap associated with their collector's editions. It's a one time thing to help sell them. Just be glad it's remained vanity, as a lot of MMOs like throwing in exclusive equipment that actually gives serious bonuses.
Take, for instance, Starcraft 2, CE. If you order that, you get special Kerrigan wings for your Diablo 3 characters that can not be acquired any other way.
Or how about all these Kickstarter games where bigger backers are getting shit like Houses and Castles and bullshit (ie. Pathfinder Online.) A sub-par race is hardly worth whining about. I'd happily sell you mine if I could, because I'm never touching Imperial.
Maybe not.
Zenimax has received $450M in private investment funding since 2007...
http://www.zenimax.com/news_pressrelease10.06.10.htm
The game wont go free to play, the only time it might is when EQN comes out or one of these top end kickstarters but that wont be for years so we got nothing to worry about.
ESO has too much of a focus on PvP to ever be threatened by EQN.
I dont think free to play will work well on consoles with both microsoft adn sony demanding part of your money..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)