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MMo's are too easy now.
Vallista
Member UncommonPosts: 282
What happen to mmo's now? I remember when a mmo where a challenge. One play style, players adapting to the content, true team play, real player communities, Countless hours of dying and few players ever reaching really top level/gear because of hard work. But now, reaching top level can be done in a weekend, content is adjusted for the player so they can get through it, everything can be solo'ed in a weekend.
What makes anyone think the next two big mmo's coming out will be anything different? I mean, it more of the same. Will there be anything different? I mean really. The last 2 AAA mmo's I played, reaching top level was easy, I rarely died, leveling was a joke, getting high-end gear was not that difficult. I did most of that with a month's time. After, 3 months, I had no interest in continuing to play. Does anyone really thing the AAA games Wildstar online or Elder scrolls online will last that long?
I've played some of the best AAA mmo's out there, daoc, wow, rift, gw2, ac and with each new mmo the games gets easier. I'm here to bash but I can't see next two mmos as something that will change anything. Does anyone really seeing themselves play ESO or Wildstar for 6 months or longer?
Maybe it not just mmo's but video games in general. I watched this youtube post by Review Tech USA some up everything I felt.
Read my blog http://sanmonocobra.blogspot.com/
Comments
what do you mean by reward? So you saying, you should be rewarded for just showing up?
Read my blog http://sanmonocobra.blogspot.com/
no
Read my blog http://sanmonocobra.blogspot.com/
We live in a world where instant gratification is synonym with fun. People do not want to invest time any more. People want everything now and served on a silver platter.
This starts in school where you don't even have to be good any more, you just need to show up and you will be pushed along with everyone else even if you read and write like a 8 year old. The "No child left behind" generation created a flood of stupid and ignorant people.
Look at single player games, they are on the same track with some notable exceptions. All these games are easy and can be completed in a few hours.
The best part is that the gaming industry can now sell broken and unfinished games for AAA full price or more and people will defend them by saying: "It's an Alpha/Beta/Early Access it's supposed to have bugs", "It will be fixed in ...", "No game was ever released without Bugs".
Because, for me, it's not rewarding if everyone can do it in a few hours/days. The sense of accomplishment is completely gone from the modern MMORPG or game in general.Rewarded by whatever carrot the games has for progressing. EQ took months to get to endgame unless you had several accounts or good friends to help powerlevel you. Items didn't come easy. WoW and its incarnations pretty much rewards you straight away.
TBH I didn't think I needed to explain what I wrote. I thought it was pretty straight forward and if you really think about it. It also gives you an answer WHY things are the way they are
Whatever you want is irrelevant. This is how the genre is now, unless you want to dabble at the buggy and at times unplayable indie MMORPGS, which also, for unknown reasons has a hankering for adding undesirable PvP rulesets like full loot, guaranteeing the population will be abysmal.
What I want is equally irrelevant. The genre goes where the masses go
The reward versus the time invested is a tricky one. But the current instant gratification generation is really making all these games shallow. It's both the developers & the players fault. I do believe games should be rewarding and fun but through achieving something and not just logging into the game. Rewarding and fun are subjective of course, but a little challenge does not hurt.
-Kirrik
See it as a slider, where it starts with maximum time investment to get to the carrot. In the opposite end, minimum time investment to get to the carrot.
The more you move the slider towards the minimum time investment, the bigger the mass-appeal and vice versa. The maximum time investment, the more niche it becomes. The downside to this kind of thinking is, the less time people have to invest to get rewarded, the quicker they move on to something new.
I like it. If you don't you are free to go back and play EverQuest 1, it's still there for folks like you. I like progress thus I play new MMOs and I enjoy them. If you can't enjoy them then don't play them and don't rant them. They have their publicity. The smart thing would be for you to move on.
Oh and btw, you can find challenge in any game, if you put your mind to it. I see you've mentioned rift and gw2, two MMOs that I've extensively played. If you really want a challenge, try to solo a dungeon in gw2 or duo a dungeon in Rift. The challenge is there, you simply *choose* to ignore it and then complain in a public board, what the hell man?
I don't feel like playing a MMO for a full year as if it is my job day in and day out to reach the top, simply no. That's stupid waste of time for me, why should I and millions of others conform with your opinion when you are part of the vocal minority?
go play EVE.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
most of the time when people complain about it being to easy they completely ignore any of the challenging parts of the game.
alot of mmo's got easy parts and hard parts.. it's just you cant look at the leveling and complain about it being too easy because most of these games dont revolve around that part.. they focus on the end game so anything before that is just a tutorial or a big old waste of time depending on how you look at it.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
I wouldn't expect big releases from big and known developers to move away from the trend, unfortunately. That's where the easy money is: quick rewards and grind fests (bleaaargh). Longivity is not the aim, but fast and furious renovation of the client base.
But there's hope (I hope
). Keep an eye on indie releases... If you are willing to trade overall quality (graphics and bug support) for innovative and harder gameplay, that's the way to go I believe... Indie development tend to target nich markets, so they're a bit more willing to take chances. There's a LOT of older players out there that want challenges, real challenges (not grind fests), and some games do look promissing... How will they survive on the current market, I don't know...
One of this days a real pearl will emerge, I honestly believe.
"Vidis Fodidis Est"
One of the reasons is that people don't want to be required to play 20+ Hours a week to progress in games. I remember playing SWG and the only way to progress in the game at a certain point was to change my class entirely Grind out Holocrons so I could become a force sensitive and be able to play a Jedi it was a good few hundred hours of work.
People just don't want to do that and even back then most people did not want to do that. Players like myself were the ones that played EQ for a month and then said why do I come home from work sit down at a computer and go back to work......
In some respects gave have become to easy but that being said I would much rather play an easier game and have fun while playing then spend hours working on my character online with a significant portion of that time being spent experiencing frustration and wondering why I pay to have a second job......
Yes, I think most of us agree on this. Atleast I do. The fine tuning between time invested and good, challenging not dumbed down content is thin though. The problem today is that alof of the content induced in the games is just so shallow, unimaginative and dumbed down. And therein lies the most frustration, at least in regards of how MMORPG's are developed today.
The sense of accomplishment, and the fun and joy that we derive from this sensation, is effectively diminished by the constant giving of rewards for simply showing up. You logged in today? Fantastic, have all this extra experience! Did you return for this update? Fantastic, have a fancy mount on the house! We are constantly provided with items that once required several hours of playing to achieve. We rush through our games because we have a constant XP-bonus. The challenges can quickly be out-leveled! The sense of accomplishment naturally suffers under these conditions.. There’s no pride in defeating a foe when you’re given the entire arsenal to do so by doing.. absolutely nothing.
That is also why I’m against in-game bonuses acquired from pre-orders or collector’s edition. I do not mind the physical, tangible stuff like statues for your desk or the soundtrack. But in-game items? No. I believe the joy is gained through overcoming obstacles and achieving those precious items from completing difficult tasks. That’s how I’m entertained by a game.
But, alas, I also believe I’m a minority. I believe the player base of this genre has become so addicted to instant gratification that any sort of challenge would only provoke a cry for easier access to the rewards. Or, even worse, they demand the option to purchase additional help to overcome obstacles that could easily be defeated if only they allied themselves with others or took the time to upgrade their gear by playing the game.
I’ve seen several people advocating for the introduction of cash shops by stating that they do not have the time it requires to reach end game. The same people usually complain that people who cannot afford these items shouldn’t be playing. But if that is the case should those without the time not also refrain from playing?
To end this little rant, a rant that I’m quite aware of that few will agree with (and that is okay), I can only stress the fact that the decreased difficulty that is present in nearly all new MMORPGs is all due to us, the customers. We validate these changes by purchasing the products. The developers will always seek any means to maximize their profits, and why shouldn’t they? As long as we continue to purchase their products we are only confirming their actions. If you disagree with the direction of a game then don’t buy it! That is the most effective way to express your dissatisfaction.
Sounds like a "time spent = challenge" thread combined with a "group vs solo" rant.
Nothing new to see here.
Depends on what you mean by challenge. Every mmorpgs in the open world is generally easy. If EQ had mobs right off the starting areas that could kill a small group of explorers, then that's hard. If not, meh.
In terms of boss difficulty, it's always been fluctuating. Vanilla WOW is many times called hard, but at least 50% of the challenge came from gearing up, attunements, and just getting all the dam people to raid. I honestly feel most mmorpgs have hard instanced battles if you look for them, specially if you pushed it to heroic/hard/nightmare/whatever mode.
I agree with you OP. I think we have a generation of people now playing that grew up with instant gratification as the norm, and since the younger people are the ones with the most time to play these games it makes sense that developers would cater to them. These new games bore me to tears though. Guild Wars 2 was my biggest ever regret as far as a game purchase and it taught me, once and for all, that MMOs these days are not designed for people like me anymore. The cartoony style, the easy item acquisition, simple quests, the whole thing is not for me. ESO looks to have similar issues, so I won't be buying that even though I love the lore and world.
It gives me more time to pursue my real life passions so it is ok. It is disappointing though, I thought MMOs would be so much more by now.
Have to agree. When people mention MMOs are easy today, the only reasoning they give is time. Which just makes thing tedious, not challenging.
Artificial Intelligence was as terrible as it is now so combat was not more challenging.
Here's a crazy idea: NO CARROT.
We already have plenty of those. Minecraft, EQNext Landmark, MOBAs etc. People play traditional MMORPGS because of advancement, be it story, gear or levels. Take that away then you are stepping over to already existing genres people can play. Be it FPS, hack'n'slash rpgs, mobas, TBS etc. and even those have their own carrots.
I don't think this genre can exist without a reward system