Originally posted by Fenrir767 When you have to cross an open world aggressive mob aggro is a pain it's similar to random encounters in a lot of JRPGs they were annoying and a huge time sink this is why a lot of those games have moved away from them.
Difficulty should be something that not everyone or a specific class can accomplish. I would rather have interesting fin challenges than learning to path around mobs and waste time sorry....
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I guess by most peoples logic on these boards everything in life is a waste of time. Why do you do it in real life? What do you have to do that you can't wait? Why is everything so annoying to you? What is the rush to move from one thing to the next to the next all the time?
Because PvE is very primitive thinking. Why drag out something where your not learning anything new when the time is lengthened?
It's illogical and seems to be unfun to most.
It is also illogical to play a game at all. You could be spending that time helping someone in need. There are many of them in the world who need help. None the less you are just wasting time rushing through a game you are probably not really enjoying. That is probably why you quit and move quickly on the the next game.
The only reason I quit most games is because I'm bored of the mechanics or the community has dwindled and flown to a new game. Also, if I'm not having fun I quit.
Exactly my point. The games are boring. They are about linear solo content with a few instanced dungeons that are somewhat hard. Not an engaging world to live in.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Just play D3 .. combat can be super hard if you want to .. you even have an option of PD.
peoples here talking about MMO not SP games
nah ... people here talking about all sort of games. D3, Destinty, LOL are all listed here. There is a thread about D3 and lore. There is no reason not to talk about D3, particularly when it is close enough to MMOs for me.
Exactly my point. The games are boring. They are about linear solo content with a few instanced dungeons that are somewhat hard. Not an engaging world to live in.
Boring is subject. If linear solo content is not fun for many, why so many buy and play SP games like Dishonored and Tomb Raider?
Not everyone want to live in another world .. many are just enjoying games.
Personally, I cant stand constantly dying. I like a challenge, I like ending a fight with my HP bar blinking or in the red, ut I cannot stand dying over and over and over and over. That to me i snot fun. i do not play video games for the challenge. I do not play video games to go brag to people about how good my reflexes are, or how great my understanding of the inner workings of any particular game are. I play to relax.
That being said I believe that they can make a game that is challenging wihtout constantly dying, and even have those elements in it for those who want it. I believe that you can have a balanced game with an Ai every bit as challenging as any human player. And I desire a game like that that has a grind to it, because without the grind, people finish the game too quickly and abandon it. The BEST feature of EQ was the grind. The fact that even the most dedicated and hardcore players still couldnt reach cap without months of playtime. New games need to have that aspect. Make the grind fun and enjoyable. Make the grind as non repetitive as it can be. However you cannot do al lthat and mix pvp and pve. It has been proven time and again that you cannot mix pvp and pve playstyles. You want pvp, go play starcraft II, or LOL, or something like that. You want to play an onlin RPG? stick with pve. its the people that ruin the games.
Exactly my point. The games are boring. They are about linear solo content with a few instanced dungeons that are somewhat hard. Not an engaging world to live in.
Boring is subject. If linear solo content is not fun for many, why so many buy and play SP games like Dishonored and Tomb Raider?
Not everyone want to live in another world .. many are just enjoying games.
If you are satisfied with tomb raider why aren't you playing it? There are more linear single player and coop games out then every before. There should be enough to take up your 10 hours a week of game time.
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time on creativity. I want to be entertained.
... fixed.
The point is not about wasting time .. playing games are wasting time to have fun. The point is that some of the stuff you have listed is BORING (to me, and some others). That is why when i want to waste time, i play games that do not have those kind of BORING stuff.
If you are satisfied with tomb raider why aren't you playing it? There are more linear single player and coop games out then every before. There should be enough to take up your 10 hours a week of game time.
Uh? Of course I am playing it. Why do you even think that i don't play a game that i like? And yeah .. of course I am playing linear SP and co-op games.
Right now, I am playing D3 (RoS is very very fun to me), Tomb Raider, Max Payne. Just finished Call of Juarez Gunslinger (very nice shooter mechanics with great narrative .. .totally linear and fun).
I don't know where you get the ideas that i don't play linear SP games .... if i don't, why would I state that i like them? You need to brush up on your logic.
MMORPG in general were never challenging or hard, they were just horribly time consuming. these days they only consume less time. And i don't think it is a bad thing. of course you can talk about "glory" days as much as you want but fact of the matter is that the world is changing everything is becoming shorter by the day; from clothes to cell phone; there is no way mmorpg could stay in the age of "finding 40 people took 10 hours and then we wiped for another 5 hours at boss". unless we can create a virtual reality mmorpg where players can truly live, those "glory" days are never coming back.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time on creativity. I want to be entertained.
... fixed.
The point is not about wasting time .. playing games are wasting time to have fun. The point is that some of the stuff you have listed is BORING (to me, and some others). That is why when i want to waste time, i play games that do not have those kind of BORING stuff.
You think it's boring to do all that stuff, but it's exciting to kill mobs over and over again with nothing else to do? RPGs are only partially about killing mobs. The other part is experiencing a world. To me waiting for nightfall is not boring. It's feeling the night chill against my skin. It's feeling an sense of danger in the bottom of my stomach as the sun starts to go down and darkness falls. It's not knowing what scary creature might be around the corner or who/what I may be meeting in with in the night.
You think it's boring to do all that stuff, but it's exciting to kill mobs over and over again with nothing else to do? RPGs are only partially about killing mobs. The other part is experiencing a world.
Yeh .. that is why i play D3 .... killing mobs in interesting ways is very fun to me. I don't really care about what RPGs are about .. i only care about what i prefer to be fun. I am not playing games to experiencing a world. I do that to have fun in my way.
Originally posted by jesteralways . unless we can create a virtual reality mmorpg where players can truly live, those "glory" days are never coming back.
Even if you can create a virtual reality mmorpg where players can truly live, i doubt those days will come back. It is about players preferences, not technology.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 When you have to cross an open world aggressive mob aggro is a pain it's similar to random encounters in a lot of JRPGs they were annoying and a huge time sink this is why a lot of those games have moved away from them.
Difficulty should be something that not everyone or a specific class can accomplish. I would rather have interesting fin challenges than learning to path around mobs and waste time sorry....
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I guess by most peoples logic on these boards everything in life is a waste of time. Why do you do it in real life? What do you have to do that you can't wait? Why is everything so annoying to you? What is the rush to move from one thing to the next to the next all the time?
Once again as response to a post that doesn't even relate to what was said the very last sentence of my post refutes the point of yours.
I have no issue avoiding mobs but when the aggro is overly aggresive that it interferes with how I would like to the game yes it's annoying.
I have no problem interacting with people I do it all the time, if I have to say sit in two waiting 2 hours till a group wants to cross the world for the next 45 minutes to another city because it's too difficult and it can't be done Solo well guess what that's a problem.
Where do I say anything about creativity if we want to stick to the issue that we are discussing on hand finding a creative way to cross an open world to me is not fun it's frustrating and there are better things I can do with my time be it in game in real life.
If you enjoy that kind of content great a lot of people don't and you can either accept it as reality or keep raging against it non stop on these boards like you do.
What do I have to do that can't wait. There are so many things that can be put in here from, to list a few, chores, work, time with friends, running that FP with friends, PvP, Raid Star time. Etc.
It's not the rush to move from one thing to the next all the time it's the ability to have it readily accessible instead of gated behind things that most people do not find fun.
Let's take a look at Vanilla WoW for example that game had the best content gated behind 40 man raid wall, with less than 10% of the game's population playing it well for as many people that joined the game the same amount were not playing it as much or leaving. Enter the new 20 man raid content however it is not as good as the 40 man. Some people enjoy it but you have still gated the best content people are joining but most of the players still can't get to the best content. Enter 5 man Heroics and other ways to get very good gear and boom WoW explodes with players as more people now have access to the content and it's not only the best of the best that can even attempt the 40 man raids.
These types of changes don't happen over night, they happen as devs read the exit surveys, they read forums, and what people say about the game. They try to improve it based on feedback from the community sometimes they go to far but in general the accessibility of the genre has been greatly improved.
People that are advocating for that 1999 style gameplay you were always the minority hate to break it to you but more people installed your favorite games played them and quit them than those that played them and they submitted exit surveys telling people what it would take to get them to play well the first company to truly listen was Blizzard and they created the monster that is WoW.
I don't understand why evolution of MMOs on this board is something that is viewed so negatively has the standard themepark gotten stale that's something that I think everyone on this board, hardcore, casual etc can agree on but instead of asking for progress I see people saying why don't you guys learn to play the way I like to play my games.
IMO the era of 1999 MMORPGs has passed and so will the era of current themeparks but the genre needs new fresh ideas less gated content and freedom for players to play as they wish.
You could have a game with a large open world but the one thing I guarantee is that the minute you put in fast travel to aid people in moving around instead of it taking hours even those that prefer sitting in town waiting for night to fall to sneak around mobs and spend 45 minutes travelling the world will use the convenience most of the time.
Most people enjoy being able to plan their gaming around their real lives, log in for an hour complete a raid progress and get back to whatever they have to take care of.
I hope all of you that want to spend your lives in your virtual world get the game that you want but most people don't want that. What many people here especially those that are fans of themeparks want to see the next generation of MMOs maybe taking a few things from the past but also creating new challenging and fun gameplay rather than slowing us down with any type of gated content.
I think you miss the purpose of an RPG, but I am not surprised by this. I also believe your thought of things being wasted time are wrong. The things you call wasted time are actually what keep players playing and build community over time. The last thing you said was that freedom is what should be encouraged. In old MMORPGs you had more freedom than in anything available today. Offering more freedom is like going back to the old model that was already there. Most of the best content you are talking about is actually the most hallow and unimportant part of the game.
I totally understand what the purpose of an RPG is and I play pen and paper every few weeks for a few hours. I have seen very, very little Role Playing in any RPG I have played and often the RP servers aren't that populated because with the amount of time people play MMORPGs they don't want to stay in character. If you really want to Role Play you should ceate a character a persona and hit up an RP server because that seems to be where you would be the happiest
I have never once said that everything about the old style of games is wrong, meaningful crafting is a huge + IMO and there are plenty of ways to take ideas from older games update them and find a way to fuse them with successful ideas from the current genre. I have played both find the current games more to my liking but I do miss certain aspects of older games. I have no problem with being required to trek across the world the first time but after that I want some fast travel as I don't want to have to wait for warrior and a healer to be planning to go to the sameplace I am in order to cross the world.
My argument is for an evolution of the MMO genre. Your definition of freedom is still limited by the gameplay mechanics for example is SWG you couldn't steal from people as that was not part of the game. What I mean by freedom is if I want to run in large groups in order to progress that's fine give me a way to do that. If I prefer small groups give me a way to do that as well. If I want to make some progress solo then give me options. All games will be limited by their mechanics and in that respect you need to find mechanics that you enjoy. Give people the freedom to play the game they way they want in long plays periods or short bursts and let them be a valued member of the community that's the Freedom that I want. In Older games you didn't neccesarily have that spending 45 minutes travelling across the game world to get to that specific quest, shop etc, when I have 2 hours to play is taking away that freedom and means that most likely I will go play another game.
You may have had freedom in other games but it was often gated by the amount of hours you had to spend to accomplish anything which IMO forces you to play the game a certain way at specific times or just quit the game which was far more common in older games than anything else.
Making me take part in a 40 man raid and deal with crazy hardcore people to stay relevant in your game is taking away my freedom and excluding me from the community and making me play a certain way.
My point is that time gating content via grinds or forced grouping does not make for great gameplay. If you want to focus on riding across the world in a group because that's what it takes that's fine that's what you enjoy and I am never going to tell you that you can't enjoy that.
What I enjoy is socializing with people and getting organized to succeed at taking down the most challenging content in the game. Everyone enjoys different things in games and the most important thing do with any RPG is that it's a game and if your not enjoying it then why play?
I am just glad to be an experianced gamer. Sure games turn out to be easy if you let the game hold your hand.
But you see I don't need to best gear because I already know it will make the game far to easy. Thankfully there are plenty of way's to make a easy game more challenging especially within the MMORPG genre.
Exactly my point. The games are boring. They are about linear solo content with a few instanced dungeons that are somewhat hard. Not an engaging world to live in.
People call SWTOR a single player game. I've been playing since launch and leveled two of the many toons I have not doing any solo stuff. Just queuing for 4 man flashpoints and it was really fun. Playing with people > solo. Not boring at all.
The best groups were with the new players who really don't know the mechanics and you teach them. Yeah you'd wipe but going back, trying again is all fun.
If I want challenge from games I'll go PvP anyway, not PvE.
I am just glad to be an experianced gamer. Sure games turn out to be easy if you let the game hold your hand.
But you see I don't need to best gear because I already know it will make the game far to easy. Thankfully there are plenty of way's to make a easy game more challenging especially within the MMORPG genre.
That is certainly true. There is the iron man challenge, and no-killing leveling in WoW.
Furthermore, MMOs should put in difficulty sliders like in D3 .. then no one will find a game too easy, or too challenging.
Originally posted by karmath Welcome to the last decade. You been under a rock or something?
lol ya. +1
welcome to modern MMOs... feel good slot machines for lazy eyed drooling gimps and spazmoo kids and whining adults about their jobs and not having any time to play but still wanting to feel like they did.
today's games are NOT games.. you are playing a business model and the business model is playing you. they are milking you for every $$$ and in return theyre offering you the cheap illusion that youre winning the game - a vague impression that dinging sounds and fireworks and shining glowing pixels that just poof into your inventory means something.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 When you have to cross an open world aggressive mob aggro is a pain it's similar to random encounters in a lot of JRPGs they were annoying and a huge time sink this is why a lot of those games have moved away from them.
Difficulty should be something that not everyone or a specific class can accomplish. I would rather have interesting fin challenges than learning to path around mobs and waste time sorry....
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I guess by most peoples logic on these boards everything in life is a waste of time. Why do you do it in real life? What do you have to do that you can't wait? Why is everything so annoying to you? What is the rush to move from one thing to the next to the next all the time?
hahah pretty much. Someone forgot to tell these people games are designed to waste time.. Life is a waste of time really but we do it anyway.
Maybe I'm wrong and people should be rushing around from one task to the next. Maybe that's what it takes to get things done in life and live a healthy life style. I just know that people seem to always complain they don't have any time these days. There is always something that needs to be done. In that case why play games at all? There is no real fun if you have to rush through it in order to fit it in.
It's not about rushing through it, it's about being to make it a part of your life without it becoming something that consumes your life.
It's about making sure those players that have 10 hours a week can be part of the community instead of lagging so far behind they will never be a part of the community.
Last thing a lot of us want is to spend 2 hours waiting for a group only to then spend 4+ hours running a dungeon that's an entire day of work or anything else practically for a dungeon run. That doesn't mean the content can't have different ways to be done with various classes allowing you to accomplish the event in different ways and not be challenging. It means getting rid of the 60+ trash mob that your gonna kill mindlessly for a few hours until you get to the hard content.
I think what you miss is that by making it more accessible that it becomes a simplified hallow experience with limited interaction. I don't believe you can have everything in life. You can either choose to devote a lot of time to MMOs and have it be a worthwhile experience or you can choose to do things outside of game you deem more important and don't worry about MMOs at all. The way MMOs are right now it just a hallow experience. Otherwise they wouldn't have to go free to play to survive. As I've pointed out to a lot of people there are single player games and coop games that would suit someone with a time frame of 10 hours a week just fine. I guess anything that requires social interaction and living in another world would require a fairly large time investment.
That's a completely subject viewpoint. There are limits in life but why can't I play an MMORPG that suits me.
Why am I subject to what you think an MMO should be and the experience that you want. Right now I can include the games in my life and for the forseable future they will be making games that I can why should I not experience that and enjoy it.
If you need crave another type of experience that's fine but don't try and tell me how to play and diminish the enjoyment that I get out of it. Not everyone has to play like you.
If you want the old school experience as has been pointed out there are games people have suggested games like Wakufu and Age of Wushu that harken back to older experiences why don't you try those or even P1999
I can't waste time avoiding mobs. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an annoying waste of time.
I can't waste time on creativity. It's a game, annoying , and a waste of time.
I can't waste time on anything, but killing easy or hard mobs setup for me to win. It's a thrilling experience.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time on creativity. I want to be entertained.
... fixed.
The point is not about wasting time .. playing games are wasting time to have fun. The point is that some of the stuff you have listed is BORING (to me, and some others). That is why when i want to waste time, i play games that do not have those kind of BORING stuff.
You think it's boring to do all that stuff, but it's exciting to kill mobs over and over again with nothing else to do? RPGs are only partially about killing mobs. The other part is experiencing a world. To me waiting for nightfall is not boring. It's feeling the night chill against my skin. It's feeling an sense of danger in the bottom of my stomach as the sun starts to go down and darkness falls. It's not knowing what scary creature might be around the corner or who/what I may be meeting in with in the night.
I am glad you enjoy imagining these things but many of us that play games feel differently.
If these are the kinds of experiences you crave have you thought about taking part in any Live Action Role Playing games where people focus on recreating and role playing these experiences.
Not everyone wants to spend all their time at their computer imagining things like that they would much rather enjoy playing a fun engaging game.
If I truly want a terrifying and challenging experience there are also games that simulate that much better than any MMORPG ever has.
Monopoly, chess, tetris, pong, zork, pacman, thumb wrestling, etc... every "game" out there... says youre WRONG.
You miss the point that accomplishment and winning is FUN.
but grazing cows like you just want to lumber around drooling, flatulent, and consuming grass that doesnt fight back; being fed a slow drip anesthetic easy experience without any resistance.. you call it "fun". players with a pulse call it boring.
btw.. isnt Immodium a diarrhea medicine? ya it is.. makes sense. i understand your post now.
WoW, the "easiest" game ever, is harder now than it's ever been if you bother to participate in the hard content. If by hard, you mean an enormous time-sink, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Monopoly, chess, tetris, pong, zork, pacman, thumb wrestling, etc... every "game" out there... says youre WRONG.
You miss the point that accomplishment and winning is FUN.
but grazing cows like you just want to lumber around drooling, flatulent, and consuming grass that doesnt fight back; being fed a slow drip anesthetic easy experience without any resistance.. you call it "fun". players with a pulse call it boring.
btw.. isnt Immodium a diarrhea medicine? ya it is.. makes sense. i understand your post now.
So your telling me you'd do all those things if they were not fun? Every person who looses in those games didn't have fun? Winning is certainly not the be all end all of my gaming experience.
So a small minority of players that choose to play games for competitive reasons over fun. Doesn't change my opinion that games are about fun, not winning.
Most people complaining about challenge in this post mention PvE mechanics. If you want challenge go PvP. You know, actually challenge against something with a brain.
Comments
Exactly my point. The games are boring. They are about linear solo content with a few instanced dungeons that are somewhat hard. Not an engaging world to live in.
nah ... people here talking about all sort of games. D3, Destinty, LOL are all listed here. There is a thread about D3 and lore. There is no reason not to talk about D3, particularly when it is close enough to MMOs for me.
Boring is subject. If linear solo content is not fun for many, why so many buy and play SP games like Dishonored and Tomb Raider?
Not everyone want to live in another world .. many are just enjoying games.
Personally, I cant stand constantly dying. I like a challenge, I like ending a fight with my HP bar blinking or in the red, ut I cannot stand dying over and over and over and over. That to me i snot fun. i do not play video games for the challenge. I do not play video games to go brag to people about how good my reflexes are, or how great my understanding of the inner workings of any particular game are. I play to relax.
That being said I believe that they can make a game that is challenging wihtout constantly dying, and even have those elements in it for those who want it. I believe that you can have a balanced game with an Ai every bit as challenging as any human player. And I desire a game like that that has a grind to it, because without the grind, people finish the game too quickly and abandon it. The BEST feature of EQ was the grind. The fact that even the most dedicated and hardcore players still couldnt reach cap without months of playtime. New games need to have that aspect. Make the grind fun and enjoyable. Make the grind as non repetitive as it can be. However you cannot do al lthat and mix pvp and pve. It has been proven time and again that you cannot mix pvp and pve playstyles. You want pvp, go play starcraft II, or LOL, or something like that. You want to play an onlin RPG? stick with pve. its the people that ruin the games.
If you are satisfied with tomb raider why aren't you playing it? There are more linear single player and coop games out then every before. There should be enough to take up your 10 hours a week of game time.
I can't waste time interacting with people. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time waiting for night to fall. It's an BORING (for me).
I can't waste time on creativity. I want to be entertained.
... fixed.
The point is not about wasting time .. playing games are wasting time to have fun. The point is that some of the stuff you have listed is BORING (to me, and some others). That is why when i want to waste time, i play games that do not have those kind of BORING stuff.
Uh? Of course I am playing it. Why do you even think that i don't play a game that i like? And yeah .. of course I am playing linear SP and co-op games.
Right now, I am playing D3 (RoS is very very fun to me), Tomb Raider, Max Payne. Just finished Call of Juarez Gunslinger (very nice shooter mechanics with great narrative .. .totally linear and fun).
I don't know where you get the ideas that i don't play linear SP games .... if i don't, why would I state that i like them? You need to brush up on your logic.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
You think it's boring to do all that stuff, but it's exciting to kill mobs over and over again with nothing else to do? RPGs are only partially about killing mobs. The other part is experiencing a world. To me waiting for nightfall is not boring. It's feeling the night chill against my skin. It's feeling an sense of danger in the bottom of my stomach as the sun starts to go down and darkness falls. It's not knowing what scary creature might be around the corner or who/what I may be meeting in with in the night.
Yeh .. that is why i play D3 .... killing mobs in interesting ways is very fun to me. I don't really care about what RPGs are about .. i only care about what i prefer to be fun. I am not playing games to experiencing a world. I do that to have fun in my way.
And i do that.
Even if you can create a virtual reality mmorpg where players can truly live, i doubt those days will come back. It is about players preferences, not technology.
I totally understand what the purpose of an RPG is and I play pen and paper every few weeks for a few hours. I have seen very, very little Role Playing in any RPG I have played and often the RP servers aren't that populated because with the amount of time people play MMORPGs they don't want to stay in character. If you really want to Role Play you should ceate a character a persona and hit up an RP server because that seems to be where you would be the happiest
I have never once said that everything about the old style of games is wrong, meaningful crafting is a huge + IMO and there are plenty of ways to take ideas from older games update them and find a way to fuse them with successful ideas from the current genre. I have played both find the current games more to my liking but I do miss certain aspects of older games. I have no problem with being required to trek across the world the first time but after that I want some fast travel as I don't want to have to wait for warrior and a healer to be planning to go to the sameplace I am in order to cross the world.
My argument is for an evolution of the MMO genre. Your definition of freedom is still limited by the gameplay mechanics for example is SWG you couldn't steal from people as that was not part of the game. What I mean by freedom is if I want to run in large groups in order to progress that's fine give me a way to do that. If I prefer small groups give me a way to do that as well. If I want to make some progress solo then give me options. All games will be limited by their mechanics and in that respect you need to find mechanics that you enjoy. Give people the freedom to play the game they way they want in long plays periods or short bursts and let them be a valued member of the community that's the Freedom that I want. In Older games you didn't neccesarily have that spending 45 minutes travelling across the game world to get to that specific quest, shop etc, when I have 2 hours to play is taking away that freedom and means that most likely I will go play another game.
You may have had freedom in other games but it was often gated by the amount of hours you had to spend to accomplish anything which IMO forces you to play the game a certain way at specific times or just quit the game which was far more common in older games than anything else.
Making me take part in a 40 man raid and deal with crazy hardcore people to stay relevant in your game is taking away my freedom and excluding me from the community and making me play a certain way.
My point is that time gating content via grinds or forced grouping does not make for great gameplay. If you want to focus on riding across the world in a group because that's what it takes that's fine that's what you enjoy and I am never going to tell you that you can't enjoy that.
What I enjoy is socializing with people and getting organized to succeed at taking down the most challenging content in the game. Everyone enjoys different things in games and the most important thing do with any RPG is that it's a game and if your not enjoying it then why play?
I am just glad to be an experianced gamer. Sure games turn out to be easy if you let the game hold your hand.
But you see I don't need to best gear because I already know it will make the game far to easy. Thankfully there are plenty of way's to make a easy game more challenging especially within the MMORPG genre.
People call SWTOR a single player game. I've been playing since launch and leveled two of the many toons I have not doing any solo stuff. Just queuing for 4 man flashpoints and it was really fun. Playing with people > solo. Not boring at all.
The best groups were with the new players who really don't know the mechanics and you teach them. Yeah you'd wipe but going back, trying again is all fun.
If I want challenge from games I'll go PvP anyway, not PvE.
Games are about fun, not accomplishment/winning.
That is certainly true. There is the iron man challenge, and no-killing leveling in WoW.
Furthermore, MMOs should put in difficulty sliders like in D3 .. then no one will find a game too easy, or too challenging.
lol ya. +1
welcome to modern MMOs... feel good slot machines for lazy eyed drooling gimps and spazmoo kids and whining adults about their jobs and not having any time to play but still wanting to feel like they did.
today's games are NOT games.. you are playing a business model and the business model is playing you. they are milking you for every $$$ and in return theyre offering you the cheap illusion that youre winning the game - a vague impression that dinging sounds and fireworks and shining glowing pixels that just poof into your inventory means something.
fun huh
That's a completely subject viewpoint. There are limits in life but why can't I play an MMORPG that suits me.
Why am I subject to what you think an MMO should be and the experience that you want. Right now I can include the games in my life and for the forseable future they will be making games that I can why should I not experience that and enjoy it.
If you need crave another type of experience that's fine but don't try and tell me how to play and diminish the enjoyment that I get out of it. Not everyone has to play like you.
If you want the old school experience as has been pointed out there are games people have suggested games like Wakufu and Age of Wushu that harken back to older experiences why don't you try those or even P1999
I am glad you enjoy imagining these things but many of us that play games feel differently.
If these are the kinds of experiences you crave have you thought about taking part in any Live Action Role Playing games where people focus on recreating and role playing these experiences.
Not everyone wants to spend all their time at their computer imagining things like that they would much rather enjoy playing a fun engaging game.
If I truly want a terrifying and challenging experience there are also games that simulate that much better than any MMORPG ever has.
Monopoly, chess, tetris, pong, zork, pacman, thumb wrestling, etc... every "game" out there... says youre WRONG.
You miss the point that accomplishment and winning is FUN.
but grazing cows like you just want to lumber around drooling, flatulent, and consuming grass that doesnt fight back; being fed a slow drip anesthetic easy experience without any resistance.. you call it "fun". players with a pulse call it boring.
btw.. isnt Immodium a diarrhea medicine? ya it is.. makes sense. i understand your post now.
Game are all about accomplishment/winning . And people are get fun from winning or accomplish something.
"Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction." from wiki
Those gangs you mentioned can and often are played without a winner or loser.
They were always easy, they just take less time now.
People always seem to confuse challenging with time consuming.
So your telling me you'd do all those things if they were not fun? Every person who looses in those games didn't have fun? Winning is certainly not the be all end all of my gaming experience.
So a small minority of players that choose to play games for competitive reasons over fun. Doesn't change my opinion that games are about fun, not winning.
Most people complaining about challenge in this post mention PvE mechanics. If you want challenge go PvP. You know, actually challenge against something with a brain.
Oh and yes, it is.