Different guids have different rules. It's alright for scheduled raids and maybe dungeon runs but when you're doing solo PvE then it shouldn't be required. When guilds get bigger alot of people talk at once and it gets hard to follow alot of typed chat happening at once.
Voice chat just makes it easier to follow and organise raids etc. I was lucky enough to get a social invite to one of the top raiding guilds in WoW back in BC only because of who one of my friends was but I left because they were too serious and I notice their still in the top raiding guilds today but anyways forced mic shouldn't be required but if you are raiding (I don't mean LFR I mean actual proper raiding) it makes life alot easier for the raid leader if you do have one.
"Their guild, their law, their rules. Don't like it? Find another guild.".
For instance, my guild only accepts 18+ years old people unless they are family of one of the existing adult guild members who will vouch for them. The reasons for that are multiple and are our own too. Don't like it? No problem, find another guild.
Now that this is out of the way:
- I do NOT agree with forced usage of headset/microphone each time you're online. That's just plain silly in my opinion.
- I DO agree with requiring players to have a headset/microphone when the guild does group content together.
Seems to me you just encountered a bunch of extremists which you will be better served to avoid anyway.
I pretty much "agree" with all of this.
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Different guids have different rules. It's alright for scheduled raids and maybe dungeon runs but when you're doing solo PvE then it shouldn't be required. When guilds get bigger alot of people talk at once and it gets hard to follow alot of typed chat happening at once.
Voice chat just makes it easier to follow and organise raids etc. I was lucky enough to get a social invite to one of the top raiding guilds in WoW back in BC only because of who one of my friends was but I left because they were too serious and I notice their still in the top raiding guilds today but anyways forced mic shouldn't be required but if you are raiding (I don't mean LFR I mean actual proper raiding) it makes life alot easier for the raid leader if you do have one.
agree.
I think the only exception I would add is for PvP guilds that have some political sensitivity.
Here is an example:
slow day, no sieges or raids planned, most everyone on vent.
one team member is out in some remote village doing some crafting and he sees a large group, all one clan, a clan we are at war with, going the direction of our strong hold. He text's 'they are incoming!' nobody reads it because everyone else is in voice.
we had issues like this all the time
ADDED: Here is another situation, team member is not on vent, didnt hear the latest news, does something that we have been told will get us a war dec. BOOM war dec because he didnt know.
I think it depends on the game. In a game like Darkfall we tried and it didnt work well for us. Even the policy of 'if your not on vent we just treat you like a random person do not expect us to respond we may or may not read your text' even that didnt work out well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm the other way. I pretty much ignore type chat and don't really want to group with people if they're not on a mic. I don't want to have to type everything out.
I don't really understand the issue with using voice coms. You talk to people every day without worrying about what your voice sounds like yet put a headset on and suddenly it becomes "weird" for them or it breaks immersion...or whatever.
Deaf people?
Believe me, they are out there in the MMO world.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn I don't join a lot of guilds for this reason. I don't always want to be connected. Sometimes I just wanna run around quietly.
I've absolutely no problem in using voips, even mics if necessary. But i just don't like these silly requirements; it tells me a lot about the guild attitude, or at least of the leadership mentality.
I'm sure there are people out there who share their views and props to them; it's just not my thing.
I'm the other way. I pretty much ignore type chat and don't really want to group with people if they're not on a mic. I don't want to have to type everything out.
I don't really understand the issue with using voice coms. You talk to people every day without worrying about what your voice sounds like yet put a headset on and suddenly it becomes "weird" for them or it breaks immersion...or whatever.
When I group with people to do stuff together I'm perfectly fine with getting on whatever chat client they use. Being told I need to spend all my online time connected to their voice chat is big no no however, and I will instantly avoid those guilds.
Often when I'm playing I'm trying to follow the game's storyline, and I don't need to hear a bunch of people talk all over the NPCs I'm trying to listen to, or completely ruin my concentration when it's an old school "read the quest text" system like WoW.
So don't join a guild like that ? It's not a big no no...it's just like minded people wanting something many others don't. The OP joined a guild that required this even though he has a laundry list of reasons why he doesn't want to follow that rule. Obviously the mistake was ever joining in the first place not anything the guild is doing.
If a game required you to do it that's a whole other story. Guilds however should focus on finding members that like the same things...that's the whole point of forming one.
Yep. That's exactly what I do. A RL friend of mine joined a guild like that on POE and was trying to convince me to join them too. I told him hell no. =P
As someone said earlier, their guild, their rules. I can understand they want to make sure that chat is always active, so that the guild stays social, but it's just not my thing.
Fortunately there are tons of guilds out there that don't have a requirement like that.
Another type I avoid are the ones that even though they're not raiding guilds, or hardcore PvP ones, still require you to get on their voice chat for an interview. Come on, I'm looking for a game to relax, not getting a second job.
I got one of those the other day. And it wasn't in their little advertisement either. I joined up and a few moments later I get a tell from the guild leader "Hey, get on TS for an interview." So I was out of there again quickly.
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- I do NOT agree with forced usage of headset/microphone each time you're online. That's just plain silly in my opinion.
- I DO agree with requiring players to have a headset/microphone when the guild does group content together.
Seems to me you just encountered a bunch of extremists which you will be better served to avoid anyway.
agreed.
Mic is necessary for group content. Its a lot easier to plan stuff together by talking instead of typing. But when im doing my own thing, or just chilling in town listening to music i dont want to hear 2+ people on the mic (that in some occasion are real life friends with each other) talk about things that arent of my concern.
I agree with these thoughts completely. If I'm flying in a fleet in EVE, or even if I'm in 0.0 space doing some PVE ratting, I have no issues wearing my headset to follow instructions, listen for intel warnings or call for help.
But if I'm just station spinning while selling stuff, or doing some high sec crafting or mission running, I see no reason to be on comms and would prefer to hang out in the afk channel. (a common work-around I've used)
I agree, just chatting in random guild chat is pointless and annoying at the same time if I'm trying to listen to voiced over game content while soloing.
I rate like 82% on the visual scale, so I really don't hear background conversation unless I'm focusing on it, but if you type something I'll respond almost every time, just how I'm wired.
But as Jean-Luc said, if the guild wants to require it, their rules, and I just make sure I don't join up with any organization that wants this, I don't expect them to adapt to my play style.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But as Jean-Luc said, if the guild wants to require it, their rules, and I just make sure I don't join up with any organization that wants this, I don't expect them to adapt to my play style.
This reminds me of my early days in Earth and Beyond. There was a major guild on our servers who started requiring their members to only log off in one specific location. This got them a lot of ridicule from the other guilds. I was part of a guild based on a live-and-live policy and we got a major surge of recruits shortly after this while the guild with the silly rules quickly dwindled.
back in the day when I was GM, I had a mic, my class officers had a mic, and we had 1 officer following chat. If someone not leading the raid had a question to ask in voice that had to basically raise there hand then they could talk
I fully understand both sides to this discussion. It has been my experience both as a leader and a member, that the players that tend to not get on voice are the ones that tend to not stick around a guild. They end up feeling alienated or ignored when a guild and the leadership within that guild make full use of voice comms. They end up not feeling part of the guild and move on.
That's absolutely fine. You as a member need to understand what type of guild you are in and if it doesn't fit you then move on. As someone that tends to ignore in game chat of any kind and as someone that spends most of his time on voice chat, i try to shy away from players that don't do the same. It's nothing personal, as i respect everyone's preference, i just prefer to game with like minded people.
The biggest mistake most new recruits make is not understanding what type of guild they're joining. A little research goes a long way and saves a lot of headaches and time down the road. If you join a guild that requires voice and you complain about it later, that's on you.
The golden age of guilds is over. There used to be a time when they could get away with the strict requirements, but at this point the guilds need players more than players need guilds.
Not only that, but I'm seeing a kind of backlash against voice, in general, amongst players these days. People who used to game with it have found that it detracts just as much as it adds value to the gameplay.
The solution seems to be so glaringly simple and obvious, I'm surprised nobody has done it already. Let the devs informally label some servers "TeamSpeak preferred", some ":Ventrillo preferred", some "Mumble preferred" and some "Text Only." That simple step would solve the vast majority of problems, both for guilds and perspective guild members.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The golden age of guilds is over. There used to be a time when they could get away with the strict requirements, but at this point the guilds need players more than players need guilds.
Not only that, but I'm seeing a kind of backlash against voice, in general, amongst players these days. People who used to game with it have found that it detracts just as much as it adds value to the gameplay.
The solution seems to be so glaringly simple and obvious, I'm surprised nobody has done it already. Let the devs informally label some servers "TeamSpeak preferred", some ":Ventrillo preferred", some "Mumble preferred" and some "Text Only." That simple step would solve the vast majority of problems, both for guilds and perspective guild members.
Yes, let's spread the community once more... Next step : A solo-oriented preferred server and a group-oriented server.
I will not join VOIP all the time because I skype a lot with a friend. One guilds solution, tell her to join Teamspeak and the two of us be in a channel...yes because I be telling private stuff in some random teamspeak channel...
I think this rule is silly in this day and age. VOIP becomes more and more mainstream. People tend to use it a lot more then for just there guild. So I do not believe you should force someone to be in your teamspeak when he is just kicking back and playing by himself.
I simply log in say hello then mute the mic and talk only when needed. What is hard about this?
Because I am already in a conversation with someone and do not feel the need to be one a teamspeak channel when I will not listen and reply. Nothing more annoying then being on teamspeak and talking to someone who does not reply when you need them.
Well 1st is I do agree it is a must in most games that take team work you are in comms at all times while online.
BUT...
It is not nessasary to be in the main lobby or even in a "room" that has other actives.
I dont know how many times Ive had my best PvP experiances in the afk channel. Theres 10 of us in the afk channel all playing away without talking and out of desperation someone calls out on the afk room for help. And BAM! 10 troopps desend on the enemy and we have hours of back and forth fun.
All in the AFK channel!
That said the guilds clans and corps out there that leave it as a manditory rule and enforce it do have a better time in game. But again that dosent mean F@#twtt#69 isnt muted at all times and Im not in the semi afk channel or in a channel just for the 1-2 that understand griping and bititing pillows is immature at best and a game killer at worst.
I simply log in say hello then mute the mic and talk only when needed. What is hard about this?
Because I am already in a conversation with someone and do not feel the need to be one a teamspeak channel when I will not listen and reply. Nothing more annoying then being on teamspeak and talking to someone who does not reply when you need them.
If a guild is literally forcing you to stay on and talk then i understand. But if i am a situation like yours i would simply let them know that i am busy and will log in later. If they understand well if not you are better off without such guild.
The golden age of guilds is over. There used to be a time when they could get away with the strict requirements, but at this point the guilds need players more than players need guilds.
Not only that, but I'm seeing a kind of backlash against voice, in general, amongst players these days. People who used to game with it have found that it detracts just as much as it adds value to the gameplay.
The solution seems to be so glaringly simple and obvious, I'm surprised nobody has done it already. Let the devs informally label some servers "TeamSpeak preferred", some ":Ventrillo preferred", some "Mumble preferred" and some "Text Only." That simple step would solve the vast majority of problems, both for guilds and perspective guild members.
Yes, let's spread the community once more... Next step : A solo-oriented preferred server and a group-oriented server.
Communication-specific servers don't spread communities. They build communities.
Because the one who won't stick a headset in his ear already isn't in the same community as the person who is on TeamSpeak...even if they play on the same server. Because we can't be in a community with one another if we can't communicate with one another, because of a clash of personal preferences.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Voice sucked when it hit Yahoo Chat in 99/00, it still sucks now. It sucks listening to people all day and not being able to respond other than by typing because they tend to overlook everything typed anyway, and by the time they get to it the context of it is lost so it seems like disjointed phrases.
If people had to go a single day without being able to speak, I'll bet voice chat and typing would suddenly be really high on people's list of 'things we need to work on to fix'. But since most will never know what it's like, it's easier to just give some vague mic excuse then turn the volume all the way down unless you're in a group and know they'll need to say something to you eventually (especially if you're healing, for instance, or need to be on add duty or whatever). I despise voice chat with a passion; more than anything else imo it destroyed the community feel of many places and led to the sorts of extreme in-clique behaviour so prevalent in guilds nowadays.
Voice chat requirements are a tell for me that I probably wouldn't get along with that group. Our household actually forbid voice chat for awhile after a couple of incidents of people wildly hollaring things like 'Help, help, Oh no! Ahaah!', leading to real world rushes to their aid, only to find it was some in game fight or drama.
I'm perfectly capable of following voice instruction in game, as I play on headphones 100%. But, unless the group/guild is made up of folks I know, I'm not that interested in voice. Of course, I can type 50 wpm easy.....of course, some might find voice easier. Different strokes and all.
Anyway, it's a negative point for me. Both guild and games that require it are a lot less likely to get my play time.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn I don't join a lot of guilds for this reason. I don't always want to be connected. Sometimes I just wanna run around quietly.
Same for me. And, I don't even own a mic.
I do but I have no interest in hearing a bunch of crap going on. I usually turn off the chat channels because it's pure stupidity going on anyhow. It's much harder to ignore the stupid when it's going right in your ear.
Comments
Different guids have different rules. It's alright for scheduled raids and maybe dungeon runs but when you're doing solo PvE then it shouldn't be required. When guilds get bigger alot of people talk at once and it gets hard to follow alot of typed chat happening at once.
Voice chat just makes it easier to follow and organise raids etc. I was lucky enough to get a social invite to one of the top raiding guilds in WoW back in BC only because of who one of my friends was but I left because they were too serious and I notice their still in the top raiding guilds today but anyways forced mic shouldn't be required but if you are raiding (I don't mean LFR I mean actual proper raiding) it makes life alot easier for the raid leader if you do have one.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I pretty much "agree" with all of this.
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agree.
I think the only exception I would add is for PvP guilds that have some political sensitivity.
Here is an example:
slow day, no sieges or raids planned, most everyone on vent.
one team member is out in some remote village doing some crafting and he sees a large group, all one clan, a clan we are at war with, going the direction of our strong hold. He text's 'they are incoming!' nobody reads it because everyone else is in voice.
we had issues like this all the time
ADDED: Here is another situation, team member is not on vent, didnt hear the latest news, does something that we have been told will get us a war dec. BOOM war dec because he didnt know.
I think it depends on the game. In a game like Darkfall we tried and it didnt work well for us. Even the policy of 'if your not on vent we just treat you like a random person do not expect us to respond we may or may not read your text' even that didnt work out well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Deaf people?
Believe me, they are out there in the MMO world.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Same for me. And, I don't even own a mic.
Me while reading a guild recruitment post:
"lot's of awesome things
...
bla bla
..mic required..."
Kthanksbye.
I've absolutely no problem in using voips, even mics if necessary. But i just don't like these silly requirements; it tells me a lot about the guild attitude, or at least of the leadership mentality.
I'm sure there are people out there who share their views and props to them; it's just not my thing.
Yep. That's exactly what I do. A RL friend of mine joined a guild like that on POE and was trying to convince me to join them too. I told him hell no. =P
As someone said earlier, their guild, their rules. I can understand they want to make sure that chat is always active, so that the guild stays social, but it's just not my thing.
Fortunately there are tons of guilds out there that don't have a requirement like that.
Another type I avoid are the ones that even though they're not raiding guilds, or hardcore PvP ones, still require you to get on their voice chat for an interview. Come on, I'm looking for a game to relax, not getting a second job.
I got one of those the other day. And it wasn't in their little advertisement either. I joined up and a few moments later I get a tell from the guild leader "Hey, get on TS for an interview." So I was out of there again quickly.
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I agree with these thoughts completely. If I'm flying in a fleet in EVE, or even if I'm in 0.0 space doing some PVE ratting, I have no issues wearing my headset to follow instructions, listen for intel warnings or call for help.
But if I'm just station spinning while selling stuff, or doing some high sec crafting or mission running, I see no reason to be on comms and would prefer to hang out in the afk channel. (a common work-around I've used)
I agree, just chatting in random guild chat is pointless and annoying at the same time if I'm trying to listen to voiced over game content while soloing.
I rate like 82% on the visual scale, so I really don't hear background conversation unless I'm focusing on it, but if you type something I'll respond almost every time, just how I'm wired.
But as Jean-Luc said, if the guild wants to require it, their rules, and I just make sure I don't join up with any organization that wants this, I don't expect them to adapt to my play style.
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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This reminds me of my early days in Earth and Beyond. There was a major guild on our servers who started requiring their members to only log off in one specific location. This got them a lot of ridicule from the other guilds. I was part of a guild based on a live-and-live policy and we got a major surge of recruits shortly after this while the guild with the silly rules quickly dwindled.
If I'm dungeon crawling with a group, I won't take a player if they don't have a mic.
Other than that, I don't care if a players on or off voice chat.
back in the day when I was GM, I had a mic, my class officers had a mic, and we had 1 officer following chat. If someone not leading the raid had a question to ask in voice that had to basically raise there hand then they could talk
I fully understand both sides to this discussion. It has been my experience both as a leader and a member, that the players that tend to not get on voice are the ones that tend to not stick around a guild. They end up feeling alienated or ignored when a guild and the leadership within that guild make full use of voice comms. They end up not feeling part of the guild and move on.
That's absolutely fine. You as a member need to understand what type of guild you are in and if it doesn't fit you then move on. As someone that tends to ignore in game chat of any kind and as someone that spends most of his time on voice chat, i try to shy away from players that don't do the same. It's nothing personal, as i respect everyone's preference, i just prefer to game with like minded people.
The biggest mistake most new recruits make is not understanding what type of guild they're joining. A little research goes a long way and saves a lot of headaches and time down the road. If you join a guild that requires voice and you complain about it later, that's on you.
The golden age of guilds is over. There used to be a time when they could get away with the strict requirements, but at this point the guilds need players more than players need guilds.
Not only that, but I'm seeing a kind of backlash against voice, in general, amongst players these days. People who used to game with it have found that it detracts just as much as it adds value to the gameplay.
The solution seems to be so glaringly simple and obvious, I'm surprised nobody has done it already. Let the devs informally label some servers "TeamSpeak preferred", some ":Ventrillo preferred", some "Mumble preferred" and some "Text Only." That simple step would solve the vast majority of problems, both for guilds and perspective guild members.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Yes, let's spread the community once more... Next step : A solo-oriented preferred server and a group-oriented server.
I will not join VOIP all the time because I skype a lot with a friend. One guilds solution, tell her to join Teamspeak and the two of us be in a channel...yes because I be telling private stuff in some random teamspeak channel...
I think this rule is silly in this day and age. VOIP becomes more and more mainstream. People tend to use it a lot more then for just there guild. So I do not believe you should force someone to be in your teamspeak when he is just kicking back and playing by himself.
Too much ado about nothing.
I simply log in say hello then mute the mic and talk only when needed. What is hard about this?
Because I am already in a conversation with someone and do not feel the need to be one a teamspeak channel when I will not listen and reply. Nothing more annoying then being on teamspeak and talking to someone who does not reply when you need them.
Part of the reason why I dont join guilds anymore..
I dont want have my play sessions constantly riddled with people blabbering in my ears.Totally kills the mood for me.
Well 1st is I do agree it is a must in most games that take team work you are in comms at all times while online.
BUT...
It is not nessasary to be in the main lobby or even in a "room" that has other actives.
I dont know how many times Ive had my best PvP experiances in the afk channel. Theres 10 of us in the afk channel all playing away without talking and out of desperation someone calls out on the afk room for help. And BAM! 10 troopps desend on the enemy and we have hours of back and forth fun.
All in the AFK channel!
That said the guilds clans and corps out there that leave it as a manditory rule and enforce it do have a better time in game. But again that dosent mean F@#twtt#69 isnt muted at all times and Im not in the semi afk channel or in a channel just for the 1-2 that understand griping and bititing pillows is immature at best and a game killer at worst.
If a guild is literally forcing you to stay on and talk then i understand. But if i am a situation like yours i would simply let them know that i am busy and will log in later. If they understand well if not you are better off without such guild.
Communication-specific servers don't spread communities. They build communities.
Because the one who won't stick a headset in his ear already isn't in the same community as the person who is on TeamSpeak...even if they play on the same server. Because we can't be in a community with one another if we can't communicate with one another, because of a clash of personal preferences.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Voice sucked when it hit Yahoo Chat in 99/00, it still sucks now. It sucks listening to people all day and not being able to respond other than by typing because they tend to overlook everything typed anyway, and by the time they get to it the context of it is lost so it seems like disjointed phrases.
If people had to go a single day without being able to speak, I'll bet voice chat and typing would suddenly be really high on people's list of 'things we need to work on to fix'. But since most will never know what it's like, it's easier to just give some vague mic excuse then turn the volume all the way down unless you're in a group and know they'll need to say something to you eventually (especially if you're healing, for instance, or need to be on add duty or whatever). I despise voice chat with a passion; more than anything else imo it destroyed the community feel of many places and led to the sorts of extreme in-clique behaviour so prevalent in guilds nowadays.
Voice chat requirements are a tell for me that I probably wouldn't get along with that group. Our household actually forbid voice chat for awhile after a couple of incidents of people wildly hollaring things like 'Help, help, Oh no! Ahaah!', leading to real world rushes to their aid, only to find it was some in game fight or drama.
I'm perfectly capable of following voice instruction in game, as I play on headphones 100%. But, unless the group/guild is made up of folks I know, I'm not that interested in voice. Of course, I can type 50 wpm easy.....of course, some might find voice easier. Different strokes and all.
Anyway, it's a negative point for me. Both guild and games that require it are a lot less likely to get my play time.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I do but I have no interest in hearing a bunch of crap going on. I usually turn off the chat channels because it's pure stupidity going on anyhow. It's much harder to ignore the stupid when it's going right in your ear.
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