Originally posted by kitarad I actually prefer games that give you an option to monthly subscription and they have other added payment schemes. This way I can choose but in ESO if you are subbed do you get free access to the DLC too or do you have to buy that separately ?
As announced they have stated that subscribers will get access to all DLC whilst subscribed.
We don't know how much the DLC will be or how frequently the DLC will be released.
If a content patch is $60 then good luck with that; expect serious value for money questions.
If a content patch is $15 then - if you play today - you are probably better off buying the content.
And then there is the question what does the term DLC mean; small content patches - a dungeon here, a region there or "an expansion". Difficult to see expansion type stuff being free.
Difficult to see really why you would subscribe "today" imo. The only other things being floated are 500 crowns and some 10% bonuses. Now if people can only get crowns by subscribing or making an original purchase, and the bonuses are only available to subscribers .... well the cash shop won't have many customers. If you can buy the stuff as a non-subscriber though .... what are the benefits of being a subscriber?
We won't know - clearly - until they announce prices but ......
Now if you decide to try the game in the future In the future and are faced with buying many content patches - whether the price is $60 or $15 each - you could get people subscribing for 30 days to play through all the "DLC" content. Which could hurt Zenimax's future revenue - b2p games - whether we are talking GW1 or CK2 or The Sims or etc. - derive revenue from people buying the core game, months and years after release, and then if they like it buying the expansions. As happens with people trying Skyrim and then buying Oblivion etc.
Originally posted by Viper482 WHat makes us elitists for thinking sub is the better model for MMO's? Why is your opinion on the matter any less elitists than ours? This is a ridiculous conversation, period. We feel the sub model is better and we are speaking with our wallets and not supporting the game due to the choice we disagree with. Simple as that. Why you have to throw in an insult about it just shows how juvenile you all are.
Clearly you either never read any posts from P2P advocates or just playing ignorant. What makes these people elitist is the rampant attitude of these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them.
I've seen the words "freeloader" ,"scrubs" ," poor people" and I even saw someone call these people "cockroaches" It's like these P2P people have to dehumanize other people to support their weak ass argument.
So yeah , people who are rabid supporters of P2P are elitist just for the mere fact of talking down to others because they don't agree with their view point.
This^
there can be dumb elitists on both sides, but a lot of sub-only supporters feel superior than everyone else and start causing drama.
Tried the game in Beta briefly and did not care for it. With F2P I would have given it a go since my Guild plays it but with B2P I will wait for box price to be cheap. I'm sure there have been tons of updates since my experience.
If free to play and cash shops are this bad for people, then I guess thos epeople shouldnt be playing mmos anymore.
Micro transacion is more profitable then any other sub model.
Get over the elitism and move on to a new genre , because for the large part of the old fashioned player, mmos arent for you anymore.
Sk many bitch and moan about cash shops, but when they HAD the games that didnt havecash shops , had all of everything everyone wanted, no one played them. SO please just stop being a trruly oxymoronic community.
[mod edit]
Agreed 100%.
Subscriptions are dead and will remain dead so get used to it. Change is inevitable and like in Business you adapt or die.
Have fun with your air drops and lock boxes walled off content and glacial slow bug fixes, because nothings free, and there really aren't that many people who want to spend a ton of money to dress like a baker or a blacksmith while they craft.
In this day and age the one real truth is there just ain't that many whales willing to pay the dollar for someone else playtime.
IF F2P is such a big money maker why is Soe losing so much money??
I am off now, playing other games till 17th of March, if they dont want my subscription money, i will make other use of it
And by 17th of March, we will see where the game leads us
Anyone else walking this route?
Yes I cancelled yesterday. I still have some slight hope that I'm wrong and the Rampant B2P/F2P is the answer players maybe right, in which case they can foot the bill
IF F2P is such a big money maker why is Soe losing so much money??
SOE has never turned a profitable quarter in its history. It has always been a financial loss for Sony. Even back when it was all subs.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Originally posted by Salute You know how many ppl bought the game (including me) since yesterday and how many more will do it in the next few days/weeks? The price was 8-9 euros in keyshops and now either its out of stock, or the price is over than 100% up. Those ppl payed the game and most of them will pay the month until it goes B2P. Many of them ofc will keep the sub after that and many more will buy from the shop. Guilds will find ppl easier, ingame economy will get better and campaign pop will rise a lot. Imho and i m not a TESO fanboy at all, both TESO and players will get a lot benefits from this transition.
We will see I hope your right, my personal experience with other MMO's going F2P (EQ2) is different but its a different company and I have been wrong before
Originally posted by angerbeaver Tried the game in Beta briefly and did not care for it. With F2P I would have given it a go since my Guild plays it but with B2P I will wait for box price to be cheap. I'm sure there have been tons of updates since my experience.
Cheaper than the actual 13€ you can get Explorer pack for?
I doubt it will get any cheaper, in fact, it will probably rise its price after the conversion and with the console release.
Originally posted by Viper482 WHat makes us elitists for thinking sub is the better model for MMO's? Why is your opinion on the matter any less elitists than ours? This is a ridiculous conversation, period. We feel the sub model is better and we are speaking with our wallets and not supporting the game due to the choice we disagree with. Simple as that. Why you have to throw in an insult about it just shows how juvenile you all are.
Clearly you either never read any posts from P2P advocates or just playing ignorant. What makes these people elitist is the rampant attitude of these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them.
I've seen the words "freeloader" ,"scrubs" ," poor people" and I even saw someone call these people "cockroaches" It's like these P2P people have to dehumanize other people to support their weak ass argument.
So yeah , people who are rabid supporters of P2P are elitist just for the mere fact of talking down to others because they don't agree with their view point.
So you dont like the P2P crowd because they call F2P and B2P group names and you think they are "elitist"? Are you not doing the same thing you just claim to hate?
What I HATE is the dehumanizing of others to validate an opinion. It can be with ANY group and ANY discussion. In this particular case , the so named "elitist". I didn't coin the phrase but If it will make you feel you feel better about it , I'll just call them "other " people. And no , I'm not doing the same thing. You show me where I dehumanized someone in my post then you can be right in your statement.
Originally posted by Gaeluian Since many here seem to be cancelling, can I have everyone's stuff?
That's the dumbest part of all this. Even if they cancel they aren't losing anything. (except maybe the feeling of exclusivity gained from being the last 10 people playing a AAA MMO.)
It's like going on a hunger strike the day you find out you no longer need food.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
How is it dehumanizing ? To describe someone as a parasite is what you would attribute to a behaviour. When whales and subscribers pay for a game how do f2p players contribute aside from being present. They benefit and feed off the whales and subscribers. That is what parasitic behaviour is. It is not dehumanizing when it is accurate.
There are posters on this very forum who boast how they have not spent a penny to support a game and they do not think it wrong that they play a game to death and not think even once to pay anything towards the product. What would you call behaviour like that and is it not contemptible that other people continue to support their hobby ?
It offends me that I pay monthly so that some other person waltzes in and plays for free. It upsets me that the game I am playing and paying for is spending the money I pay towards supporting these other players. That is not elitism it is the feeling of anger when you slave and slog for the money you earn so that some other person can play the same game you are paying for, for FREE.
I was going to resub but DMKano's hint made me wait. Now i will wait until April (I have the big move at the end of March) and start playing again, probably from scratch.
Originally posted by kitarad How is it dehumanizing ? To describe someone as a parasite is what you would attribute to a behaviour. When whales and subscribers pay for a game how do f2p players contribute aside from being present. They benefit and feed off the whales and subscribers. That is what parasitic behaviour is. It is not dehumanizing when it is accurate.
HA! If that's what you think you haven't logged in lately. Calling it a pre-50 ghost town would be an insult to the social qualities of ghosts.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Originally posted by kitarad How is it dehumanizing ? To describe someone as a parasite is what you would attribute to a behaviour. When whales and subscribers pay for a game how do f2p players contribute aside from being present. They benefit and feed off the whales and subscribers. That is what parasitic behaviour is. It is not dehumanizing when it is accurate.
Ok, lets try this then , how are YOU better than them? Do you know all of their situations? How do you know if they DON'T contribute? Do you have a some sort of program that hacks into all of these people computers to see whether or not they contribute?
If you can answer ANY of these questions, then you have a point but I'm sure as shit you can't. Make sure you have links to back up your statements.
Contributing money is the only contribution I will consider personally. Nowhere did I say I am better than them. I said I found that behaviour contemptible ,I never said I was better. I said it made me angry that I am paying for them to play. I have been supporting SWTOR for years. Never unsubscribed although I do not play the game as much now but I feel the game needs my support because it is a good game. All along it saddened me that my money is used to support the F2P players and that is my honest feeling.
I am not interested nor will consider personally any other support other than cash for a game. That is not elitism and I thought that was the point. I feel companies take advantage of people like me who are willing to pay and support their games and having paid it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Not everything is a matter of opinion. For example, a lot of poor people end up using payday loan places (or loan sharks; same thing.) These offer "convenience", but they can financially ruin a lot of people who don't realize the traps involved. In principle it's a legit service. In practice they are exploitative. In the same way, a lot of cash shop games just take advantage of people (and there are documented examples of what they do to game design and game play.)
I'm going to call payday loans ripoffs that should be illegal, even if there are people who can use them responsibly. I'm going to call cash shops in games a terrible practice that I won't support. (And I'm not going to play BS games about trivial services somehow being the same as buying lottery boxes or fancy gear,) I have no illusion that this will, by itself, change things; but I also have no other way to communicate my anger at what ZoS did.
I want there to be a cost to cash grabs. And I want companies to realize that the cost is real and large enough to matter.
More to the point, I have plenty of choices that don't rely on payment models that I despise. This is a golden age for computer games now, really, and I don't have to play a MMO.
How is it dehumanizing ? To describe someone as a parasite is what you would attribute to a behaviour. When whales and subscribers pay for a game how do f2p players contribute aside from being present. They benefit and feed off the whales and subscribers. That is what parasitic behaviour is. It is not dehumanizing when it is accurate.
There are posters on this very forum who boast how they have not spent a penny to support a game and they do not think it wrong that they play a game to death and not think even once to pay anything towards the product. What would you call behaviour like that and is it not contemptible that other people continue to support their hobby ?
It offends me that I pay monthly so that some other person waltzes in and plays for free. It upsets me that the game I am playing and paying for is spending the money I pay towards supporting these other players. That is not elitism it is the feeling of anger when you slave and slog for the money you earn so that some other person can play the same game you are paying for, for FREE.
Companies need these F2P players because these players are also playing an important part of keeping game more active and social.
To call them parasites and insult them is really low behavior. If your sub money was sufficent MMOS wouldn't go F2P or B2P to begin with. You spending money is one very small part of over all bigger picture. Without these F2P parasites your F2P MMOS will be ghost towns...you know the very situation companies try to avoid by going F2P?
FTP destroys the games that people like me enjoy. They exist in name but the experience that we like no longer exist. And it's sad that the free brigade doesn't even realize the difference in many cases.
So yeah , people who are rabid supporters of P2P are elitist just for the mere fact of talking down to others because they don't agree with their view point.
They are only elitist if they have actually called people those names or adopted a better than thou stance against others who don't support it.
Otherwise, you will have to join the "elitist jerk club" ( I hear they have a lounge) as you are making a the same type of blanket statement based on what "some" people said.
So in essence, just a different side of the same coin.
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Comments
As announced they have stated that subscribers will get access to all DLC whilst subscribed.
We don't know how much the DLC will be or how frequently the DLC will be released.
I just fel feel sorry for he peeps who like this game ,soon you will meat true MMO crowd .
:&
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
This^
there can be dumb elitists on both sides, but a lot of sub-only supporters feel superior than everyone else and start causing drama.
I still having fun in ESO why should I unsub just beacuse the game goes B2P in March?
I did as well
Have fun with your air drops and lock boxes walled off content and glacial slow bug fixes, because nothings free, and there really aren't that many people who want to spend a ton of money to dress like a baker or a blacksmith while they craft.
In this day and age the one real truth is there just ain't that many whales willing to pay the dollar for someone else playtime.
IF F2P is such a big money maker why is Soe losing so much money??
Yes I cancelled yesterday. I still have some slight hope that I'm wrong and the Rampant B2P/F2P is the answer players maybe right, in which case they can foot the bill
Poor management and bad game design decisions?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
SOE has never turned a profitable quarter in its history. It has always been a financial loss for Sony. Even back when it was all subs.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
We will see I hope your right, my personal experience with other MMO's going F2P (EQ2) is different but its a different company and I have been wrong before
Cheaper than the actual 13€ you can get Explorer pack for?
I doubt it will get any cheaper, in fact, it will probably rise its price after the conversion and with the console release.
What I HATE is the dehumanizing of others to validate an opinion. It can be with ANY group and ANY discussion. In this particular case , the so named "elitist". I didn't coin the phrase but If it will make you feel you feel better about it , I'll just call them "other " people. And no , I'm not doing the same thing. You show me where I dehumanized someone in my post then you can be right in your statement.
This could end up being very interesting.
That's the dumbest part of all this. Even if they cancel they aren't losing anything. (except maybe the feeling of exclusivity gained from being the last 10 people playing a AAA MMO.)
It's like going on a hunger strike the day you find out you no longer need food.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
How is it dehumanizing ? To describe someone as a parasite is what you would attribute to a behaviour. When whales and subscribers pay for a game how do f2p players contribute aside from being present. They benefit and feed off the whales and subscribers. That is what parasitic behaviour is. It is not dehumanizing when it is accurate.
There are posters on this very forum who boast how they have not spent a penny to support a game and they do not think it wrong that they play a game to death and not think even once to pay anything towards the product. What would you call behaviour like that and is it not contemptible that other people continue to support their hobby ?
It offends me that I pay monthly so that some other person waltzes in and plays for free. It upsets me that the game I am playing and paying for is spending the money I pay towards supporting these other players. That is not elitism it is the feeling of anger when you slave and slog for the money you earn so that some other person can play the same game you are paying for, for FREE.
HA! If that's what you think you haven't logged in lately. Calling it a pre-50 ghost town would be an insult to the social qualities of ghosts.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Ok, lets try this then , how are YOU better than them? Do you know all of their situations? How do you know if they DON'T contribute? Do you have a some sort of program that hacks into all of these people computers to see whether or not they contribute?
If you can answer ANY of these questions, then you have a point but I'm sure as shit you can't. Make sure you have links to back up your statements.
This could end up being very interesting.
Contributing money is the only contribution I will consider personally. Nowhere did I say I am better than them. I said I found that behaviour contemptible ,I never said I was better. I said it made me angry that I am paying for them to play. I have been supporting SWTOR for years. Never unsubscribed although I do not play the game as much now but I feel the game needs my support because it is a good game. All along it saddened me that my money is used to support the F2P players and that is my honest feeling.
I am not interested nor will consider personally any other support other than cash for a game. That is not elitism and I thought that was the point. I feel companies take advantage of people like me who are willing to pay and support their games and having paid it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Not everything is a matter of opinion. For example, a lot of poor people end up using payday loan places (or loan sharks; same thing.) These offer "convenience", but they can financially ruin a lot of people who don't realize the traps involved. In principle it's a legit service. In practice they are exploitative. In the same way, a lot of cash shop games just take advantage of people (and there are documented examples of what they do to game design and game play.)
I'm going to call payday loans ripoffs that should be illegal, even if there are people who can use them responsibly. I'm going to call cash shops in games a terrible practice that I won't support. (And I'm not going to play BS games about trivial services somehow being the same as buying lottery boxes or fancy gear,) I have no illusion that this will, by itself, change things; but I also have no other way to communicate my anger at what ZoS did.
I want there to be a cost to cash grabs. And I want companies to realize that the cost is real and large enough to matter.
More to the point, I have plenty of choices that don't rely on payment models that I despise. This is a golden age for computer games now, really, and I don't have to play a MMO.
Companies need these F2P players because these players are also playing an important part of keeping game more active and social.
To call them parasites and insult them is really low behavior. If your sub money was sufficent MMOS wouldn't go F2P or B2P to begin with. You spending money is one very small part of over all bigger picture. Without these F2P parasites your F2P MMOS will be ghost towns...you know the very situation companies try to avoid by going F2P?
*rolls eyes*
They are only elitist if they have actually called people those names or adopted a better than thou stance against others who don't support it.
Otherwise, you will have to join the "elitist jerk club" ( I hear they have a lounge) as you are making a the same type of blanket statement based on what "some" people said.
So in essence, just a different side of the same coin.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo