Originally posted by Incomparable Which means, as a potential win 10 user, I wont test or most likely enjoy the full benefits any time soon, and I hope MS accounts for people such as myself and offer the same opportunity to jump on win 10 when its fully ready while giving win 7 full support.
Sure, you'll have the same opportunity everyone else does. 1 year for a free upgrade, and if you are still on the fence after that, you can still pay just like everyone else will be.
Originally posted by JJ82 1. Making money on X because of Y is not making money on X...do you do business? Are you saying that because Office makes a ton of money that MSFT could then give everything away for free? Because that IS what you are saying when you think about it. And the Windows app store could be made for Windows 7 easily...crazy thing about a PC is that software can be made for anything and doesn't require code to be imbedded into an OS core code to work...
Consoles are being sold with a loss and so is beer in stores. It a pretty normal practice. Not everything has to make profit on it own. So the idea is not that odd.
Consoles are sold at a loss when they are first released to make a profit LATER once the installment base is high. That is only due to the fact that one must have a console, to play games, so the money made off of games are tied to the console.
Nothing listed by the person I replied to has anything to do with Windows 10. Xbox One does not feed Windows 10 revenue or vise-versa.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Because of GNOME you can install software on it allowing for other uses making it more like a PC. Since its Linux based and can be continually upgraded with newer features and functions it CAN actually eventually replace a desktop for a PC gamer who only uses his desktop for games. Considering there are an estimated 300 million PC gamers worldwide...that's a massive risk to Windows.
With the same logic, home non-gaming computers would have been long replaced with linux or w/e OS.
Neither is happening and won't happen. There is no reason to.
Unless you factor in the fact that many people have left the desktop in favor of mobile and would actually prefer to not be stuck in front of a desk if they can be on their nice recliner or couch...
So again, there is yet another non-MSFT Windows option today, that did not exist 8 years ago and as can be seen by the fact that MSFT cant break into mobile and compete against Android and Iphone...the more options there are, the worse it is for MSFT since MSFT has become fat and too used to forcing their ways onto people because of lack of choice.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I'm coming to think, if valve didn't push for steamOS to become a good gaming OS desktop in the furture, microsoft would not even thinking of giving free upgrade, is like most companies don't find a threat that some other OS may come take there share then they don't even try your going to buy it even if it's buggy or crappy.
Unless you factor in the fact that many people have left the desktop in favor of mobile and would actually prefer to not be stuck in front of a desk if they can be on their nice recliner or couch...
So again, there is yet another non-MSFT Windows option today, that did not exist 8 years ago and as can be seen by the fact that MSFT cant break into mobile and compete against Android and Iphone...the more options there are, the worse it is for MSFT since MSFT has become fat and too used to forcing their ways onto people because of lack of choice.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
I recall hearing something similar 10+ years ago and every year since then..
"This is the year for Linux to take off!'
Yeah, Windows is still king in the desktop world and unless HL3 is 'SteamOS Only', that ain't changing.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
I'll probably look at Win10 once a more solid preview is available but this looks good. Can't argue with 'free'; although it technically is only free for WIn7/Win8 users.
Being 'better than Win8' is not a high bar though. Win8 is just so bad!
Windows 8 is amazing, it has drivers for almost everything preloaded and it can run anything plug and play. It's extremely light weight, fast, agile, and easy to use for any level of user.
I don't know what you are talking about, 8 is freaking god like.
Day 350 or so after launch sounds like a good day to do a fresh win 7 install, then get the free upgrade:) Start with no bloat and fresh installs for free? Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
I bet you can even skip all the windows security updates to save time as well if going straight to a upgrade.
Sounds like they have gotten a bit smarter about working with people to get feedback and USE it on 10. Like what i have read and heard about 10 so far.
I'll probably look at Win10 once a more solid preview is available but this looks good. Can't argue with 'free'; although it technically is only free for WIn7/Win8 users.
Being 'better than Win8' is not a high bar though. Win8 is just so bad!
Windows 8 is amazing, it has drivers for almost everything preloaded and it can run anything plug and play. It's extremely light weight, fast, agile, and easy to use for any level of user.
I don't know what you are talking about, 8 is freaking god like.
The red highlighted text is not true for any users.
Win8 on a traditional non-touch desktop is terrible. Hence the 'We are so sorry! Here is our latest software FOR FREE!'
Christ, MS literally didn't name their next windows 'Win9' cause they wanted more separation from 'Win8'.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Originally posted by JJ82Unless you factor in the fact
I am not factoring in fabulated fantasy facts. Sorry.
You are still missing the reason why are Windows successful. The main advantage of Windows is that they are not just OS, they are representing a platform - it is all the stuff related you get with Windows rather than the OS itself.
This advantage is not present when it comes to mobile devices because the market for mobile devices is still fresh and either too out of scope of Microsoft operations(they are focused on business rather than end-users) or they severely underestimated mobile devices as such.
Given some more functionality to Steam machine would still make it more competitive to console rather than desktops, where Windows is miles and miles ahead of any competition.
There is speculation/rumors that it will move to a subscription service to align with their new "Windows as a service" ideology.
I don't think that will happen. Frankly this seems more a response to Apple, where ppl get free upgrades to their OS.
And upgrading ppl from 7 to 10 unlocks the app store, which should increase revenue for MS when ppl buy apps.
Apple gives Mac people free upgrades because they are making their profits from the actual computers. The OS is a side benefit. MS makes most of its profit from Windows. They don't make truckloads of money from selling you laptops/desktops.
The main thing is that if you don't have much choice whether you use Windows or not if you don't have a mac. What is out there? Linux? Don't make me laugh. Ubuntu? Better cut my wrists.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I recall hearing something similar 10+ years ago and every year since then..
"This is the year for Linux to take off!'
lol
Linux on desktop is kind of like using Javascript.
It's one ugly duckling compared to CSS and Python.
Its slow, it's laggy, it runs differently on every system. The only reason JS still isn't dead is JQuery. The only reason Linux on desktop isn't dead yet is Ubuntu.
But everyone knows it's a horrible, inefficient, and completely user un-friendly mess of a solution.
You are talking about an OS where the AMD drivers are written by people in their spare time.
An OS that is so insecure that the bash shell exploit sent shockwaves through the linux world last year.
I buy an iMac before I touch the mess that is Linux on desktop.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
If you have windows 7, 8 or 8.1, you get a free upgrade to Windows 10.
I have windows 10 on my pc atm, the preview, it's much better than 8, and it has a propr start screen .
What do you think of all of this.
the update will be free for a "year after release".
i wonder what happens after that? do i own it then? or do i have to buy it after a year.
I think you get a LICENSE KEY, just like you get one if you buy Windows 8 online.
So if you format your system and want to reinstall, you go to the download page (of which you get a link of in your email), download and unlock with the key.
If you have windows 7, 8 or 8.1, you get a free upgrade to Windows 10.
I have windows 10 on my pc atm, the preview, it's much better than 8, and it has a propr start screen .
What do you think of all of this.
the update will be free for a "year after release".
i wonder what happens after that? do i own it then? or do i have to buy it after a year.
Its still free, no subscription. Its not MS trying to be nice. They are trying to get as many people over to Win 10 as fast as they can. Software developers wont support it otherwise. Windows users are spread over to many OS currently, this gives MS less leverage.
well, a) it's definately a business model that WILL bring em more users.
but since they said it will be free for a year, b) is still my question :P
if we got it before we get to keep it, everyone else has to buy it then?
i don't bitch em here, i just don't get it
(and for the record, i like my windows 8, which i actually bought hehe. i am not a pure leecher, that's what i try to say)
If you dont use the upgrade tool, patch or how ever they roll out the free copy within 12 months. Then you will need to pay the retail price to goto win 10.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
Steam OS is dead, re-releasing it won't matter.
Just like re-releasing OUYA wouldn't matter.
steamOS is not dead just Steam Machines as in the marketing term is. They will be called living room PCs.
And a reply to your post above this.
Linux growth is slow. With Valve pushing gaming into linux it has seen more growth and will continue. We already have seen AMD and Nvidia up their driver support since Valve started down the path of linux.
Shellshock was a major Bash shell exploit ( unix shell) and has been patched ( now depends on individual admins to ensure their system is patched ). It was mainly a web server issue. The exploit itself can be extremely bad for webservers. The shock for most people is that this exploit has existed for 20 years undiscovered.
We already have seen AMD and Nvidia up their driver support since Valve started down the path of linux.
Really..AMD made their drivers open source and have 1 dev working on it spare-time.
In fact I contacted AMD 2 years ago when I tried Ubuntu and Mint again, and needed GPU support, my PC was crashing every 2 minutes each time the driver got called.
The email I got back said that driver development on Linux wasn't a priority for them, ie: "we don't care about Linux".
Linux users have been saying that AMD and NVIDIA would support Linux with proper drivers for a decade now, it's 2015 and still to this day, not a single desktop Linux build has decent support for the latest graphics cars that aren't bugged like crazy.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
Steam OS is dead, re-releasing it won't matter.
Just like re-releasing OUYA wouldn't matter.
steamOS is not dead just Steam Machines as in the marketing term is. They will be called living room PCs.
And a reply to your post above this.
Linux growth is slow. With Valve pushing gaming into linux it has seen more growth and will continue. We already have seen AMD and Nvidia up their driver support since Valve started down the path of linux.
Shellshock was a major Bash shell exploit ( unix shell) and has been patched ( now depends on individual admins to ensure their system is patched ). It was mainly a web server issue. The exploit itself can be extremely bad for webservers. The shock for most people is that this exploit has existed for 20 years undiscovered.
Its not dead but its not in a good place as well. There are a few reasons. The desktop side of SteamOS has very little support and most people who use their PC for gaming use it for more then just games. They are going to need to drum up allot of support to get the desktop side of SteamOS to make it worth using.
Big reason you would get SteamOS is to stream any game from any OS on one computer. Microsoft is moving to streaming games as well. With more window users then Linux, by far. SteamOS should be worried, not the other way around. I am not sure SteamOS project has what it takes to make it really big. This is before you get into software and driver support.
Linux 10 years ago vs today, linux is everywhere except the desktop ( it doesn't take a genius to figure out why desktop adoption has been slow). It has massive market share in terms of servers, phones/ tablet, embedded devices. Look at the games that have started to come out to linux since Valve started opening linux up. There are more publishers that are now bringing their games to the OS then ever before and I am sure will continue to grow
I have been a windows user my whole life. I have played with linux for years but it never grew out of just a hobby and become my main OS simply because I couldn't do most of my work or play my games on it. I can now do my work so only reason I am left with windows is for gaming and I am looking forward to that change ( as I see more games are getting made for linux )
Linux 10 years ago vs today, linux is everywhere except the desktop ( it doesn't take a genius to figure out why desktop adoption has been slow). It has massive market share in terms of servers, phones/ tablet, embedded devices.
I don't think anyone was talking about phones or servers. Linux works well to run Apache or SAP software, but that also doesn't require a working GPU driver or sound drivers or media codecs, or user friendlyness.
Linux on desktop has nothing to do with someone running Apache on some webserver, they're not the same systems, they have as much user interactivity as a typewriter.
Most webservers running Apache couldn't run Tetris, let alone directly address a GPU.
Comments
Sure, you'll have the same opportunity everyone else does. 1 year for a free upgrade, and if you are still on the fence after that, you can still pay just like everyone else will be.
Consoles are sold at a loss when they are first released to make a profit LATER once the installment base is high. That is only due to the fact that one must have a console, to play games, so the money made off of games are tied to the console.
Nothing listed by the person I replied to has anything to do with Windows 10. Xbox One does not feed Windows 10 revenue or vise-versa.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Unless you factor in the fact that many people have left the desktop in favor of mobile and would actually prefer to not be stuck in front of a desk if they can be on their nice recliner or couch...
So again, there is yet another non-MSFT Windows option today, that did not exist 8 years ago and as can be seen by the fact that MSFT cant break into mobile and compete against Android and Iphone...the more options there are, the worse it is for MSFT since MSFT has become fat and too used to forcing their ways onto people because of lack of choice.
All Steam needs to do is re-release their machine with more software installed on it to have more internet related functionality by adding video streaming apps, social media apps and a fully functional browser.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I recall hearing something similar 10+ years ago and every year since then..
"This is the year for Linux to take off!'
Yeah, Windows is still king in the desktop world and unless HL3 is 'SteamOS Only', that ain't changing.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Windows 8 is amazing, it has drivers for almost everything preloaded and it can run anything plug and play. It's extremely light weight, fast, agile, and easy to use for any level of user.
I don't know what you are talking about, 8 is freaking god like.
Day 350 or so after launch sounds like a good day to do a fresh win 7 install, then get the free upgrade:) Start with no bloat and fresh installs for free? Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
I bet you can even skip all the windows security updates to save time as well if going straight to a upgrade.
Sounds like they have gotten a bit smarter about working with people to get feedback and USE it on 10. Like what i have read and heard about 10 so far.
The red highlighted text is not true for any users.
Win8 on a traditional non-touch desktop is terrible. Hence the 'We are so sorry! Here is our latest software FOR FREE!'
Christ, MS literally didn't name their next windows 'Win9' cause they wanted more separation from 'Win8'.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
I am not factoring in fabulated fantasy facts. Sorry.
You are still missing the reason why are Windows successful. The main advantage of Windows is that they are not just OS, they are representing a platform - it is all the stuff related you get with Windows rather than the OS itself.
This advantage is not present when it comes to mobile devices because the market for mobile devices is still fresh and either too out of scope of Microsoft operations(they are focused on business rather than end-users) or they severely underestimated mobile devices as such.
Given some more functionality to Steam machine would still make it more competitive to console rather than desktops, where Windows is miles and miles ahead of any competition.
Apple gives Mac people free upgrades because they are making their profits from the actual computers. The OS is a side benefit. MS makes most of its profit from Windows. They don't make truckloads of money from selling you laptops/desktops.
The main thing is that if you don't have much choice whether you use Windows or not if you don't have a mac. What is out there? Linux? Don't make me laugh. Ubuntu? Better cut my wrists.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
lol
Linux on desktop is kind of like using Javascript.
It's one ugly duckling compared to CSS and Python.
Its slow, it's laggy, it runs differently on every system. The only reason JS still isn't dead is JQuery. The only reason Linux on desktop isn't dead yet is Ubuntu.
But everyone knows it's a horrible, inefficient, and completely user un-friendly mess of a solution.
You are talking about an OS where the AMD drivers are written by people in their spare time.
An OS that is so insecure that the bash shell exploit sent shockwaves through the linux world last year.
I buy an iMac before I touch the mess that is Linux on desktop.
Steam OS is dead, re-releasing it won't matter.
Just like re-releasing OUYA wouldn't matter.
the update will be free for a "year after release".
i wonder what happens after that? do i own it then? or do i have to buy it after a year.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think you get a LICENSE KEY, just like you get one if you buy Windows 8 online.
So if you format your system and want to reinstall, you go to the download page (of which you get a link of in your email), download and unlock with the key.
You do own it then.
Its still free, no subscription. Its not MS trying to be nice. They are trying to get as many people over to Win 10 as fast as they can. Software developers wont support it otherwise. Windows users are spread over to many OS currently, this gives MS less leverage.
(sorry for skipping the quote, got too much imo)
well, a) it's definately a business model that WILL bring em more users.
but since they said it will be free for a year, b) is still my question :P
if we got it before we get to keep it, everyone else has to buy it then?
i don't bitch em here, i just don't get it
(and for the record, i like my windows 8, which i actually bought hehe. i am not a pure leecher, that's what i try to say)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
That's right, everyone who wants to upgrade 1 year after Windows 10 launch, is going to have to pay full price for it.
So if you have windows 7 or 8, don't wait a year to upgrade your system to 10.
thx for clearing that. now it seems logical to me.
gonna get 10 within the first months i guess.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
If you dont use the upgrade tool, patch or how ever they roll out the free copy within 12 months. Then you will need to pay the retail price to goto win 10.
steamOS is not dead just Steam Machines as in the marketing term is. They will be called living room PCs.
And a reply to your post above this.
Linux growth is slow. With Valve pushing gaming into linux it has seen more growth and will continue. We already have seen AMD and Nvidia up their driver support since Valve started down the path of linux.
Shellshock was a major Bash shell exploit ( unix shell) and has been patched ( now depends on individual admins to ensure their system is patched ). It was mainly a web server issue. The exploit itself can be extremely bad for webservers. The shock for most people is that this exploit has existed for 20 years undiscovered.
Linux growth is non-existent.
Linux marketshare on desktop has never been above 1% in over a decade.
Really..AMD made their drivers open source and have 1 dev working on it spare-time.
In fact I contacted AMD 2 years ago when I tried Ubuntu and Mint again, and needed GPU support, my PC was crashing every 2 minutes each time the driver got called.
The email I got back said that driver development on Linux wasn't a priority for them, ie: "we don't care about Linux".
Linux users have been saying that AMD and NVIDIA would support Linux with proper drivers for a decade now, it's 2015 and still to this day, not a single desktop Linux build has decent support for the latest graphics cars that aren't bugged like crazy.
Linux on desktop is a joke.
Its not dead but its not in a good place as well. There are a few reasons. The desktop side of SteamOS has very little support and most people who use their PC for gaming use it for more then just games. They are going to need to drum up allot of support to get the desktop side of SteamOS to make it worth using.
Big reason you would get SteamOS is to stream any game from any OS on one computer. Microsoft is moving to streaming games as well. With more window users then Linux, by far. SteamOS should be worried, not the other way around. I am not sure SteamOS project has what it takes to make it really big. This is before you get into software and driver support.
Ah yes lets just say it is none.
Linux 10 years ago vs today, linux is everywhere except the desktop ( it doesn't take a genius to figure out why desktop adoption has been slow). It has massive market share in terms of servers, phones/ tablet, embedded devices. Look at the games that have started to come out to linux since Valve started opening linux up. There are more publishers that are now bringing their games to the OS then ever before and I am sure will continue to grow
I have been a windows user my whole life. I have played with linux for years but it never grew out of just a hobby and become my main OS simply because I couldn't do most of my work or play my games on it. I can now do my work so only reason I am left with windows is for gaming and I am looking forward to that change ( as I see more games are getting made for linux )
I don't think anyone was talking about phones or servers. Linux works well to run Apache or SAP software, but that also doesn't require a working GPU driver or sound drivers or media codecs, or user friendlyness.
Linux on desktop has nothing to do with someone running Apache on some webserver, they're not the same systems, they have as much user interactivity as a typewriter.
Most webservers running Apache couldn't run Tetris, let alone directly address a GPU.