Every time I see a post these days, there's already 5 pages of nonsensical garbage as relies.
My answer is....
Is the game fun? If yes, the who the hell friggin cares. If not? Then who the hell friggin cares?
People are so quick judge things down to the last micron....give it a rest and play.
Thise 2 philosophies are so different that it can seriously impact fun and gameplay.
So is it relevant now?
No! It isn't!!
But people don't care. If someone else is yammering on about it, they will care. Does it matter? Only if you let it. I NEVER noticed it until you people posted it.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Originally posted by Bitrip Vertical to me these days is really nothing but end game. I am more about the journey than the destination, so I prefer horizontal progression. Guild Wars 2 did it well...they just need to add mounts or some kind of fun movement options to shake up the monotony of running everywhere.
This. I agree wholeheartedly and find the rush to end game formula is not only bad for player retention, but its a lost opportunity for meaningful content from level 1 onward.
If vertical doesn't win this poll by a landslide its another testament to the fact that how games currently work is not what most players actually want.
I so agree.. So far 70% of the responders are in complete contradiction to what games are designing.. LOL So does this mean that the devs are NOT listening to the players, or are the players just clueless to what they want?? lol I actually voted for horizontal.. Granted I'm ok with minimal vertical growth, but I wish more games focused on horizontal content instead of how many vertical grinds can we shove into one patch..
Originally posted by Axehilt
PVE is typically most fun with vertical progression. You struggle with one challenge, then progress a little and it's easier, and now you're onto new challenges. I disagree.. I think when you say PvE, you are focusing on it from a singular console point of view.. Oh sure, when people play games like Dragon Age, it's all about vertical power progression.. However, there is the communal PvE, which many ignore in where you do NOT want to install power gaps that will in turn segregate the player base into mini pockets.. From my chair and point of view, I want "minimal" restrictions, so that player base have ever opportunity to enjoy the game together.. This is why I recommend horizontal.. But then I guess it depends if you look at gaming from a SOLO perspective, or a SOCIAL one..
PVP is typically fun with zero vertical progression (all lateral progression.) Any vertical progression directly works against the point of a PVP game (skill-based competition.) This I do agree, that from a Esport PvP point of view, everyone regardless on how experience or long they have been playing, gains NO advantage..
IMO.. In PvE games, I would like to see maybe 20% vertical growth, and 80% vertical content.. Without doing a spreadsheet, I would like to keep the power gap between newbie and max level about 75%.. This mean that a newbie would have a power rating about 100, and a veteran would be around 175.. So 2 or 3 newbies can take out that veteran
Question, take 2 characters. 1 is fresh lvl 80. Another one is in full ascended gear. Both have same skill, which one wins?
Same premise, but throw in masteries, one is fresh lvl 80 who managed to pick up a few masteries on the way to 80, the other maxed them out. Which one wins?
You see now why GW2 isn't a good example of horizontal progression?
So, GW2 has skills which need to be built? Skills that need to be built is semantics when compared to levels that need to be built, as both systems can be translated into the other quite easily. Both are vertical.
Picking a moment in time when one char is at a power cap and the other is not is meaningless, it applies to all games. vertical has no power cap. if you cant understand the concept parallel capped progression curves via a focus on an endless power curve then i cant help with that. Again wether or not you think GW2 is a 'good example' or not is irrelevant.
Oh thank Innoruuk! Now I get it! So a capped or limited vertical progression is horizontal progression. Oh crap, but what if that cap gets raised?
Sephiroso here dont really know what hes talking about im afraid
Going exotic to ascended is same like going r4 to r5 in EvE.
I will take it, there was a mix up here. I suppose it happens. But I am in the camp of "horizontal progression does not exist in MMORPGs" (except in super mario bros, sonic the hedgehog, et al). Horizontal is based on "incomparables," such as comparing 2 different classed characters to each other, or such as comparing their gears at equal levels, or their skills at equal levels. So mixed within the confines of vertical progression, "horizontal progression" is allowed the privilege of existing at all, but for no other reason. This is of course, when we speak in the context of an MMORPG.
Ideal horizontal would be no vertical at all. Devs seem to include short vertical progression for either some kind of tutorial or for some directed experience, but yes, main difference is power plateau, horizontal tends to reach that plateau quickly while ideal vertical never has power plateau.
So in context of MMOs (which are supposed to be played for long periods of time):
Vertical: constant power ugrades that ideally never end (endless levels would be example, AA as another example, Champoin points...or constant gear upgrades that add stats) so no power plateau
Horizontal: no or very short vertical progression, "upgrades" include expanding options, ideally in every part of the game, very definite power plateau that ideally never changes
Originally posted by Bitrip Vertical to me these days is really nothing but end game. I am more about the journey than the destination, so I prefer horizontal progression. Guild Wars 2 did it well...they just need to add mounts or some kind of fun movement options to shake up the monotony of running everywhere.
GW2 is not a good example of horizontal progression lol.
Then give me a recent example. Please, I'd love to hear it.
I think people like you have a misconception when it comes to vertical/horizontal progression. First off horizontal progression is a contradiction. There is no game that is 100% vertical progression and there is no game that is 100% horizontal progression.
It is a scale, a balance that all games have of the two. A few things on the vertical side is things like leveling, getting better gear, leveling up abilities/skills to get stronger. A few things on the horizontal side of things is unlocking new classes, not getting any stronger as you play the game, basically a communist way of playing a game. Everyone is equal and can not be any stronger than the next person.
There are good ways to insert horizontal progression into your games, and there are bad ways. You want to see a good way? Look at the Zelda games. There are no stats that you raise through leveling up in a Zelda game. You only collect equipment as you play through the game. Link's sword swipe with the Kokiri sword will never do more damage no matter how close to the actual end of the game you are or how many hours you played. Shooting an enemy with Link's Fairy Bow will never miss so long as your aim is true because there is no artificial accuracy stat that raises as you play the game.
Now there are ways for certain things to do more damage in this horizontal setup like enemy weaknesses. For example say a big giant eyeball is a monster you're up against, one could assume he'd take increased damage from a pointy weapon like a Bow, but a sling shot may not have enough oomf to do damage.
This isn't to say that there is no vertical progression in these games because there is. Like the progression from Kokiri Sword, to Master Sword, to Biggoron Sword. Each doing more damage than the last. But the vast majority of the equipment you use in those games are situational. And all of them do not get stronger just by playing the game. You have to get components to increase the situations in which you'd use them(like Fire/Light Arrows for the bow).
Bringing this back to GW2, their horizontal progression ammounted to forcing people to grind for cosmetics only. Once you hit max level everyone was pretty much at the same level as the next person. There wasn't any meaningful ways of utilizing the horizontal side of progression. Just forcing everyone to be on the same level field is not good enough. Which is why they quickly started sliding more and more towards vertical progression with the Ascended gear and what not which was still a mistake because the grind for legendary/ascended was just mindless grind instead of putting it in actually challenging content like a raid or something.
You still didn't answer my question. Give me a recent example of an MMO with horizontal progression since you don't think GW2 counts...
The Secret World
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
in GW2 levels dont grant any significant power due to downscaling, so it doesnt matter if youre level 80, going to lvl35 area you will be lvl35 with lvl35 stats.
It never took over 100 hours to reach 80 in GW2, and today there are options to be 80 in few minutes (no cash shop options)
There hasnt been any content (and wont be in exapnsion) that requires more power than at launch.
Its pretty obvious what is and what isnt vertical progression game.
and power plateaues ARE a significant difference beween vertical and horizontal progression.
If reaching 80 as a new character really could be done in "a few minutes" for the average player, then that would be enough to consider it a lateral progression game. I don't think that's the case though?
Power pleateaus happen in basically all games, but caps or plateaus aren't what makes a game have lateral progression. It's whether or not there is significant power growth. You could argue that when the level cap is 1 that cap has now caused a game to have a lot less verticality (possibly none), but it's really not about the cap but about the traverse of how much power you can attain (and whether it takes significant time to gain that power, because if it doesn't then that's effectively not vertical progression.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
PVE is typically most fun with vertical progression. You struggle with one challenge, then progress a little and it's easier, and now you're onto new challenges. I disagree.. I think when you say PvE, you are focusing on it from a singular console point of view.. Oh sure, when people play games like Dragon Age, it's all about vertical power progression.. However, there is the communal PvE, which many ignore in where you do NOT want to install power gaps that will in turn segregate the player base into mini pockets.. From my chair and point of view, I want "minimal" restrictions, so that player base have ever opportunity to enjoy the game together.. This is why I recommend horizontal.. But then I guess it depends if you look at gaming from a SOLO perspective, or a SOCIAL one..
Drop the "console" nonsense, it makes you sound wildly inexperienced in gaming. I've been PC focused in my games since the C64 and in all that time the PC RPGs I played were successful due to vertical progression. MMORPGs have been no different.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When people discuss vertical and horizontal, they are referring to progression beyond the max level.
An expansion that raises levels and stats, beyond the original cap, is vertical progression, along with the gear that is released. This isn't true with GW2, as far as we know.
I wouldn't consider Masteries vertical at all, since everyone will have access to them at max level (probably before that too).
Ascended gear is the only vertical system at max level, so i agree with you there.
No, vertical/horizontal progression is just about whether a game has vertical/horizontal progression. No "beyond max level" condition applies. The only "cheat" to get around being considered vertical is if the progression only takes a trivial amount of time (if the other poster's implication that you can start a new character and be maxed in "a few minutes" is true) then that would be get around vertical progression being a factor.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When people discuss vertical and horizontal, they are referring to progression beyond the max level.
An expansion that raises levels and stats, beyond the original cap, is vertical progression, along with the gear that is released. This isn't true with GW2, as far as we know.
I wouldn't consider Masteries vertical at all, since everyone will have access to them at max level (probably before that too).
Ascended gear is the only vertical system at max level, so i agree with you there.
No, vertical/horizontal progression is just about whether a game has vertical/horizontal progression. No "beyond max level" condition applies. The only "cheat" to get around being considered vertical is if the progression only takes a trivial amount of time (if the other poster's implication that you can start a new character and be maxed in "a few minutes" is true) then that would be get around vertical progression being a factor.
When people discuss vertical and horizontal, they are referring to progression beyond the max level.
An expansion that raises levels and stats, beyond the original cap, is vertical progression, along with the gear that is released. This isn't true with GW2, as far as we know.
I wouldn't consider Masteries vertical at all, since everyone will have access to them at max level (probably before that too).
Ascended gear is the only vertical system at max level, so i agree with you there.
No, vertical/horizontal progression is just about whether a game has vertical/horizontal progression. No "beyond max level" condition applies. The only "cheat" to get around being considered vertical is if the progression only takes a trivial amount of time (if the other poster's implication that you can start a new character and be maxed in "a few minutes" is true) then that would be get around vertical progression being a factor.
enjoy
Yea, you only need a character that is 365 days old, or a character with a shit ton of achievement reward points as you get 1 every 5k, or be a pvp fanatic or just buy a bunch of black lion chests.
That's totally something anyone and everyone can do.
When people discuss vertical and horizontal, they are referring to progression beyond the max level.
An expansion that raises levels and stats, beyond the original cap, is vertical progression, along with the gear that is released. This isn't true with GW2, as far as we know.
I wouldn't consider Masteries vertical at all, since everyone will have access to them at max level (probably before that too).
Ascended gear is the only vertical system at max level, so i agree with you there.
No, vertical/horizontal progression is just about whether a game has vertical/horizontal progression. No "beyond max level" condition applies. The only "cheat" to get around being considered vertical is if the progression only takes a trivial amount of time (if the other poster's implication that you can start a new character and be maxed in "a few minutes" is true) then that would be get around vertical progression being a factor.
enjoy
Yea, you only need a character that is 365 days old, or a character with a shit ton of achievement reward points as you get 1 every 5k, or be a pvp fanatic or just buy a bunch of black lion chests.
That's totally something anyone and everyone can do.
You really should keep in touch with times.. And i dont really see wha BLC has to so with anything. or a 365 days old character.
AND, you can alwys do it old fashioned way, nothings stopping you. Or just craft or just....Its not silver platter thingy.
Choices, choices, so many choises
Il have lvl 80 revenant minutes after expansion goes live.
Vertical is about growing up word in terms of power level by directly increasing the statistical power(Level or Gear) and indirectly by doing more damage or being less damaged by negative elements(enemies and others) thorough secondary mechanics (perks or addons),which may need to be increased its effectiveness by completing of requirements(leveling,using items,spending resources or even completing tasks).
Horizontal is about expanding the number of different effects or benefits by finding new utilities(perks and skills) and items(Gear and addons).
all of you forget the word progression.
Without it there is no movement of any kind or ways to move on.
leveling used differently in both Horizontal and Vertical.With in Vertical being the one of the ways in which the player increasing hers or his statistical power.While in Horizontal it might be not even there and if it is its short in terms time spend in leveling,as its mostly used for the purpose of the tutorial.
Vertical: Advancement of a character through a means that is linear and measurable.
Horizontal: Advancement of a character through a means that is non-linear and situational.
I prefer both. We can argue semantics all day about what is or isn't. But the fact of the matter is that pretty much all persistent games are built around vertical progression. Unless you consider fluff like achievements and appearance to be an avenue of character progression they all advance in measurable ways and plateau at some point.
I am pretty limited in my scope of MMORPG experience but GW1 is a great example of going from Vert to Horz in such a jarring way as to differentiate the two progression schemes accurately. FFXI from my understanding is the polar opposite of that. But still managing to engender a complexity that can feel somewhat horizontal with secondary jobs.
So my preference? Diagonal progression. Since both are accepted forms of advancement, and I have subjectively thrown achievements/vanity into the trash for this discussion, I think this works best.
You can level and stat increase. But without skilling, discovery, specialization, and practice you can only go so far. I'd much prefer to slow down the Vertical progress with mastery. Often these two things are tied to the same thing (level). Divorce these two and let both axis be a progression that is required for both.
You really should keep in touch with times.. And i dont really see wha BLC has to so with anything. or a 365 days old character.
AND, you can alwys do it old fashioned way, nothings stopping you. Or just craft or just....Its not silver platter thingy.
Choices, choices, so many choises
Il have lvl 80 revenant minutes after expansion goes live.
So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.
Watch the video.
In the last resort scenario, you can dump money into gems sell them and buy mats for crafting.
There IS an option to be quick max level even on your 1st character, you dont even have to set foot outside captial city of your race.
ANet doesnt really want you to do that though as leveling your 1st character is setup as tutorial and story/lore (and you need it, most of the people couldnt properly dodge or utilise combo fields etc.)
Along that many choices for alternate leveling are opened for you.
As i said, ill have new class at power plateau in minutes after expansion goes live as well as countless other people. Now show me what vertical progression game has that option. Show me how you can do that in WoW.
'So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.'
Are people dense or what. Horizontal progression games are full of vertical lines of progression. Vertical progression games have parallel lines of progression. vertical progression games have a core line of progression that never ends. that single line of progression fundementally alters the players relationship with the game as it progresses.
vertical v progression is based on the shape of the progression model, and developer design intent. The GW2 developers have said they designed the game to be horizontal, even as recently as when they talked about the mastery model. As for working out the shape, if your confused, draw one, it takes about 30 seconds and a child could do it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by MalaboogaYou really should keep in touch with times.. And i dont really see wha BLC has to so with anything. or a 365 days old character.AND, you can alwys do it old fashioned way, nothings stopping you. Or just craft or just....Its not silver platter thingy.Choices, choices, so many choises Il have lvl 80 revenant minutes after expansion goes live.
So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.
So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.
Watch the video.
In the last resort scenario, you can dump money into gems sell them and buy mats for crafting.
There IS an option to be quick max level even on your 1st character, you dont even have to set foot outside captial city of your race.
Right I did watch the video and the only way someone is going to have those items is a lot of time, or money. Your tone here suggests you still disagree, and yet the evidence you've presented indicates you should be agreeing with me.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
His very next post admitted money would be required to do what the video showed on your first character. So apparently nothing is wrong with me, since a player still needs a lot of time or money to advance through GW2's vertical progression.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
His very next post admitted money would be required to do what the video showed on your first character. So apparently nothing is wrong with me, since a player still needs a lot of time or money to advance through GW2's vertical progression.
so what, what has your petty argument got to do with the progression model in the game. the speed you level has got no bearing on this (although some games will punish slow play)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.
Watch the video.
In the last resort scenario, you can dump money into gems sell them and buy mats for crafting.
There IS an option to be quick max level even on your 1st character, you dont even have to set foot outside captial city of your race.
Right I did watch the video and the only way someone is going to have those items is a lot of time, or money. Your tone here suggests you still disagree, and yet the evidence you've presented indicates you should be agreeing with me.
And?
is there a way to get to power plateau quick?
yes.
Is there many options to get to power plateau quickly?
yes
I reaaaaaaaly don see the problem, you asked a question, you were answered and then move the goalposts.
And it doesnt require a lot of time either.
And that video requires 0 money (also already mentioned, that video has no connection to any currency at all). it does require time spent on ANY character you choose to play with.
Problem is that you listen to people like Sephiroso who again and angain demonstrated he lacks knowledge about the game.
AND that video nicely shows that it takes 1 minute to progress through vertical progression.
You are offered MANY choices to skip whole part of vertical progression, and that includes 1st character on fresh account. Is that the part that is confusing for you?
show me a way to get to power plateau in 1 minute in vertical progression game of your choosing.
Originally posted by Bladestrom its 1 dimensional thinking. a game has a progression element with a scale on it, so it must be a vertical progression game!
Vertical progression means power progression, so yes most everything with a scale is vertical progression. The majority of things measured by a scale will be vertical (level, stats, etc) and almost never are scales used on lateral things ("articles of vanity clothing unlocked")
It takes a pretty warped perspective to call the truth 1-dimensional. "I'm trying to tell this guy sideways is up, but he's so 1-dimensional that he keeps saying only sideways is sideways and up is up. The truth is so infuriating!"
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Bladestrom its 1 dimensional thinking. a game has a progression element with a scale on it, so it must be a vertical progression game!
Vertical progression means power progression, so yes most everything with a scale is vertical progression. The majority of things measured by a scale will be vertical (level, stats, etc) and almost never are scales used on lateral things ("articles of vanity clothing unlocked")
It takes a pretty warped perspective to call the truth 1-dimensional. "I'm trying to tell this guy sideways is up, but he's so 1-dimensional that he keeps saying only sideways is sideways and up is up. The truth is so infuriating!"
If theres downscaling/upscaling throughout most of the game then vertical progression part is irrelevant.
When you can skip all vertical progression part, vertical progression is irrelevant.
Comments
No! It isn't!!
But people don't care. If someone else is yammering on about it, they will care. Does it matter? Only if you let it. I NEVER noticed it until you people posted it.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Ideal horizontal would be no vertical at all. Devs seem to include short vertical progression for either some kind of tutorial or for some directed experience, but yes, main difference is power plateau, horizontal tends to reach that plateau quickly while ideal vertical never has power plateau.
So in context of MMOs (which are supposed to be played for long periods of time):
Vertical: constant power ugrades that ideally never end (endless levels would be example, AA as another example, Champoin points...or constant gear upgrades that add stats) so no power plateau
Horizontal: no or very short vertical progression, "upgrades" include expanding options, ideally in every part of the game, very definite power plateau that ideally never changes
The Secret World
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
If reaching 80 as a new character really could be done in "a few minutes" for the average player, then that would be enough to consider it a lateral progression game. I don't think that's the case though?
Power pleateaus happen in basically all games, but caps or plateaus aren't what makes a game have lateral progression. It's whether or not there is significant power growth. You could argue that when the level cap is 1 that cap has now caused a game to have a lot less verticality (possibly none), but it's really not about the cap but about the traverse of how much power you can attain (and whether it takes significant time to gain that power, because if it doesn't then that's effectively not vertical progression.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Drop the "console" nonsense, it makes you sound wildly inexperienced in gaming. I've been PC focused in my games since the C64 and in all that time the PC RPGs I played were successful due to vertical progression. MMORPGs have been no different.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No, vertical/horizontal progression is just about whether a game has vertical/horizontal progression. No "beyond max level" condition applies. The only "cheat" to get around being considered vertical is if the progression only takes a trivial amount of time (if the other poster's implication that you can start a new character and be maxed in "a few minutes" is true) then that would be get around vertical progression being a factor.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
enjoy
Yea, you only need a character that is 365 days old, or a character with a shit ton of achievement reward points as you get 1 every 5k, or be a pvp fanatic or just buy a bunch of black lion chests.
That's totally something anyone and everyone can do.
You really should keep in touch with times.. And i dont really see wha BLC has to so with anything. or a 365 days old character.
AND, you can alwys do it old fashioned way, nothings stopping you. Or just craft or just....Its not silver platter thingy.
Choices, choices, so many choises
Il have lvl 80 revenant minutes after expansion goes live.
Vertical is about growing up word in terms of power level by directly increasing the statistical power(Level or Gear) and indirectly by doing more damage or being less damaged by negative elements(enemies and others) thorough secondary mechanics (perks or addons),which may need to be increased its effectiveness by completing of requirements(leveling,using items,spending resources or even completing tasks).
Horizontal is about expanding the number of different effects or benefits by finding new utilities(perks and skills) and items(Gear and addons).
all of you forget the word progression.
Without it there is no movement of any kind or ways to move on.
leveling used differently in both Horizontal and Vertical.With in Vertical being the one of the ways in which the player increasing hers or his statistical power.While in Horizontal it might be not even there and if it is its short in terms time spend in leveling,as its mostly used for the purpose of the tutorial.
So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Vertical: Advancement of a character through a means that is linear and measurable.
Horizontal: Advancement of a character through a means that is non-linear and situational.
I prefer both. We can argue semantics all day about what is or isn't. But the fact of the matter is that pretty much all persistent games are built around vertical progression. Unless you consider fluff like achievements and appearance to be an avenue of character progression they all advance in measurable ways and plateau at some point.
I am pretty limited in my scope of MMORPG experience but GW1 is a great example of going from Vert to Horz in such a jarring way as to differentiate the two progression schemes accurately. FFXI from my understanding is the polar opposite of that. But still managing to engender a complexity that can feel somewhat horizontal with secondary jobs.
So my preference? Diagonal progression. Since both are accepted forms of advancement, and I have subjectively thrown achievements/vanity into the trash for this discussion, I think this works best.
You can level and stat increase. But without skilling, discovery, specialization, and practice you can only go so far. I'd much prefer to slow down the Vertical progress with mastery. Often these two things are tied to the same thing (level). Divorce these two and let both axis be a progression that is required for both.
Watch the video.
In the last resort scenario, you can dump money into gems sell them and buy mats for crafting.
There IS an option to be quick max level even on your 1st character, you dont even have to set foot outside captial city of your race.
ANet doesnt really want you to do that though as leveling your 1st character is setup as tutorial and story/lore (and you need it, most of the people couldnt properly dodge or utilise combo fields etc.)
Along that many choices for alternate leveling are opened for you.
As i said, ill have new class at power plateau in minutes after expansion goes live as well as countless other people. Now show me what vertical progression game has that option. Show me how you can do that in WoW.
'So it seems like it would require a lot of time or money to level after all. Vertical progression.'
Are people dense or what. Horizontal progression games are full of vertical lines of progression. Vertical progression games have parallel lines of progression. vertical progression games have a core line of progression that never ends. that single line of progression fundementally alters the players relationship with the game as it progresses.
vertical v progression is based on the shape of the progression model, and developer design intent. The GW2 developers have said they designed the game to be horizontal, even as recently as when they talked about the mastery model. As for working out the shape, if your confused, draw one, it takes about 30 seconds and a child could do it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
What is wrong with you?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Right I did watch the video and the only way someone is going to have those items is a lot of time, or money. Your tone here suggests you still disagree, and yet the evidence you've presented indicates you should be agreeing with me.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
His very next post admitted money would be required to do what the video showed on your first character. So apparently nothing is wrong with me, since a player still needs a lot of time or money to advance through GW2's vertical progression.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
so what, what has your petty argument got to do with the progression model in the game. the speed you level has got no bearing on this (although some games will punish slow play)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And?
is there a way to get to power plateau quick?
yes.
Is there many options to get to power plateau quickly?
yes
I reaaaaaaaly don see the problem, you asked a question, you were answered and then move the goalposts.
And it doesnt require a lot of time either.
And that video requires 0 money (also already mentioned, that video has no connection to any currency at all). it does require time spent on ANY character you choose to play with.
Problem is that you listen to people like Sephiroso who again and angain demonstrated he lacks knowledge about the game.
AND that video nicely shows that it takes 1 minute to progress through vertical progression.
You are offered MANY choices to skip whole part of vertical progression, and that includes 1st character on fresh account. Is that the part that is confusing for you?
show me a way to get to power plateau in 1 minute in vertical progression game of your choosing.
Vertical progression means power progression, so yes most everything with a scale is vertical progression. The majority of things measured by a scale will be vertical (level, stats, etc) and almost never are scales used on lateral things ("articles of vanity clothing unlocked")
It takes a pretty warped perspective to call the truth 1-dimensional. "I'm trying to tell this guy sideways is up, but he's so 1-dimensional that he keeps saying only sideways is sideways and up is up. The truth is so infuriating!"
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If theres downscaling/upscaling throughout most of the game then vertical progression part is irrelevant.
When you can skip all vertical progression part, vertical progression is irrelevant.