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Girl player---interactions with guys, some issues
jykouras
Member Posts: 8
Hey guys, sorry this is so long. I'm having a bit of a dilemma and I wanted to ask some advice. So I am an adult female MMO player in my late twenties. I am not new to games, I've played several over the past 12 years and my current game for nearly 2 years. I think I would be considered a 'hardcore casual' player because I do everything, I'm good at a lot of stuff, I spend an obnoxious amount of time in the game, but I never really messed with staying on the cutting edge of new content as it came out, mainly because I am a full time student and didn't think I'dhave time to dedicate to a static and regular progression type work.
So any way, most of my time in this game has been spent with a very small, close knit group of people who are all very nice, respectful and friendly. I would say that I was a more active player than most of this group and probably had a bit more experience with a lot of things than them because of this.
Any way, so I started delving into some of the more end game content and was introduced to several serious, endgame-oriented people and made some friends and also some enemies it seems. The server we play on is not large, so it seems like most of these people know or know of each other so any news and drama with these people seems to travel very quickly. Obviously the second I started regularly going into vent with these people is when it changed. Most of these player are guys and early-mid twenties. They interact with me in different ways.
I have developed a group of suck up followers, for one, who now constantly invite me to things, want to be in contact 100% of the time when I am online, want to do things one-on-one; want to use a messenger outside the game. This has proved difficult because I no longer have as much "alone time" as I am use too, I am constantly bombarded with multiple requests to do *something* all the time, and these people get upset/butthurt when I turn them down, or they get jealous if I'm doing something with someone else and not them and then get catty and weird about it. They take personal offense if I invite someone else to the group. I've made it VERY clear that I am only interested in being friends, not some weird online relationship with all of them, but they don't listen. So there's THAT drama.
Then there's a fair group of people who seem irritated by me and my followers, who assume that I only have this fan club because I am a girl and that I obviously suck at everything and am not deserving of such adoration(which I did not ask for), so they seem to give me a hard time to balance out the suck ups.
Then there's a third group of very competitive, elitist jerks that seem threatened by my presence or that I could be good at anything they are good at and will not be outdone by a girl. This group is particularly nasty because they go for the low blows, always giving me a hard time, making very aggressive, sexually charged attacks at me, criticizing everything I do. This group, while usually all-around dicks with everyone, seem to lie in wait for my voice in a group of maybe 10 people, to chime in and attack me for whatever I've said and try to embarrass me in front of everyone else. I have tough skin though, I've dealt with aggressive dudes. I think I can handle myself on my own. I don't let them get away with it, and I try really hard not to be affected, but sometimes they do get to me and I just need a break from all that.
So I lay low for a bit, fighting off the followers as best I can, but the second I return, all this drama comes back with force. I am hoping that given time and more interaction with me the whole thing will die down some and I can just hang out and be treated relatively equally. Most of them are not bad, some I'd even call friends. But playing with this group means I can't escape the dicks because they are all so closely intertwined. Also I seem to have developed a questionable/negative rep among this group, including a fair group of people I've never met before because they are name dropping me one way or another in their circles.
These games are like grown up high school and some of these dudes are much worse than any woman with their drama. Advice for me here? I'm just trying to make things a little smoother. I want to be able to play with these people without all the drama and just see how it goes.
Comments
My advice is to NOT be so available for discussion/gaming with people outside your group. The more you open up to this Fan Club, the more they will go crazy. I feel like you have complete control of who you interact with and who you do not interact with. You probably shouldn't go outside the game to talk to these people, unless you really want to.
I've seen this problem exactly like this with female gamer friends, or even with my own problem with forming a fan club of girls in a couple guilds I've joined. I also had a male friend that would get this group of younger men that would fan club around him.
People are on these games for the social aspect as well as the game, you are the gatekeeper on how much you interact socially. Don't worry so much about sparing everyone's feelings. Let people know if they are being pushy or are crossing a line. There is enough politics in real life, seems silly to bring it into a game as well.
-D
Yes you do have this fan club only because you are a girl. It's a fact of live, you better get used to it. It's the same reason why you have so many guy "friends".
Nothing wrong with it though but it is hardly surprising.
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Hi I play games with my wife, in fact I met her online in a game.. but I digress, I'm in my early 40s and tbh what you describe is just the normal douchbaggery associated with any endgame mmo activity especially if you have to run in "circles" or private groups.
Over the years my wife and I have just gotten use to playing just us two and rarely join guild or circles like this unless we absolutely have to as we are planing on playing long term ( 2 years +) and when we do join guilds we tend to look for casual or laid back guilds or circles that are not too hardcore....
You haven't mentioned which type of mmo you're into which can also have an impact.. mobas and other really competitive games are the worst of the bunch.
You kind of have to look at mmo gaming as walking into some bar you have never been to before and kind of navigate things that way. There's no magic solution and you just need to decide how much of this "xxxx" you are willing to put up with before you fight back, if it's worth it etc etc, and just act accordingly.
The whole must have vent/raidcall etc etc just tends to aggravate things too which is another reason we avoid circles or guilds that "require" this as admittance to join.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Could always send them misleading photos of Richard Simmons when they ask for your pics, and say the fluffy thinning hair is because of a glandular disorder.
And I get that. I know thats how this works. I am magically more interesting because they know I'm a girl and I sound reasonably young on vent. I didn't ask for it though. Honestly I'm not even all that nice to most of them, but that doesn't deter them. For some reason being standoffish makes these people want to talk to me more.
I also get not giving them too much info or contact outside the game. I am really careful about that because I've met weirdos in these games before. I don't really give any personal info out for this reason. I occasionally talk to a few on a messenger, but not often.
The drama is really obnoxious though.
Unfortunately you get a LOT more of that kind of behavior in progression focused guilds, on any game.
Being a girl doesn't help as you've discovered. Unfortunately the problem is not with you, its with them, and that being said, means nothing you can do is going to change it.
My recommendation would be to try to find a different guild that focuses on progression. You may have to hop around for a bit until you find a suitable guild, but they do exist. Back when i did a lot of raiding and such i've found if you try to look for guilds that advertise as "mature" or "older gamers" etc, then to help with that a lot.
The leg humping will probably never go away sadly, but it can be significantly reduced.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Hey,
I'm glad that you reached out, since it's something we had to deal with several times over the years, playing in MMO's as a larger clan. Respectively, some of our best/most dedicated players have been female, and we have had to deal with those who had disrespected them accordingly. The web is still full of people, who for whatever reason, feel they can abuse, discriminate and disrespect people with no regard, due to the 1/10 inch thick screen in front of them. To be blunt, as we all know, it's childish. Times are changing though, in a bigger scope, but due to the MMO part of most online games, the abuse continues.
Couple tips, that we found effective.
One, you have to have a pretty hard edge. If and when people come on to you, since this might actually be the closest they get to a real life female this week, turn them down immediately. It's nice to think that you can be friendly, chatty and that they are just there to be friends, but given an opportunity, or led down the wrong path by being "nice" can lead to people getting the wrong impression. Make it clear that you are only here to enjoy the game, and that partying with a particular person is no different that partying with a random. It can be tough trying to be "nice" without giving the attitude that can be considered...well... anything but that.
Two, show them up. Guys hate being shown up. We had a healer that would consitsently kick the living shit out of every healer in our guild. She ligitely got invited for being a good healer, not just for being a girl. To prove that point, she started a hunter.... she went back healing for raids.. lol. Talk to your guild leaders, if your in one, and express some of your concerns to them one on one. Ask them to help you out. Make some minor alliances, and when you get invited to stuff, make a point of showing them up. Over time, if you have those alliances on your side, you will turn resentment into respect, and be better off for it.
Three, if all else fails, ignore. Your there to play a game, not to deal with 14 year olds with hormone problems. If there are certain people who persist, give them the ulitmatimun. Back off, or forever be put on ignore. Respect me, or fuck right off. They might bitch for a while, and might get their friends to bitch, but a couple simple clicks of the mouse, they are gone.
The biggest one, if your guild/clan doesn't have it, is create a respectful place to be. If they aren't into that, find one that has that mind set. We drew a huge female fan base for dealing with the jerks immediately, and with that, had a lot of fun having the very different perspective of a female(s) in our groups. In the long run, it made us one of the best, and most desirable clans on our server.
It's what worked for us, but we also had leaders who built that as a core in our guild. Hope this helps a bit.
Wolff
Drama is always like that.
Well, can you get a name change or a server transfer or switch to a new game?
Well thats the thing, I'm not in the douchebags guild. I'm in a very nice guild filled with nice people, but those people are extremely casual and don't play nearly as often as I do. They also do not delve much into endgame much. When I do venture out to do end game stuff, I occasionally go with a few of my newer, helpful friends--who are not dicks to me--but inevitably, because all of these endgame raiders seem to know each other, that means some of the dicks end up joining, or end up in the vent, end up in the party, start crap up when they see my character in a city.
And I am serious, somehow people I don't even know, act like they know me. I don't even know what these douches are saying in their own guilds and vents/teamspeaks. There really is no avoiding them, they are everywhere. And they know my name now. They are just as bad in the game as they are in vent.
I wanted to add something: I will absolutely not leave the server. I am one of those people who plays games like this for the people and the friends and I'd never give up the people I know and have met over this. I'd sooner blacklist all the dicks.
I just wish it was a little smoother with less conflict.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Like I said if you're unsatisfied change your criteria for joining said guilds/circles, there's not much you can do really, you need to decide if slower endgame with a laid back guild vs quicker endgame with a hardcore guild is the way to go and even if you want to chat in voice chat at all.
Dunno but maybe run with a static group that you can actually be friends with rather than just peeps you run raids and endgame with and let tell the other drama queens to bugger off. It might make you less popular and might make endgame a little slower but you might have more fun.
Looks like you have two choices put up with the drama or avoid some circles due to the drama queens running in them.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Do your friends not care about any of this? I mean, shouldn't they have your back?
I know there is this weird anti-women thing in gaming society now and it is pretty sad.
Video game nerds want to use their epeen to impress, don't buy into it, play these games with your own personal progression in mind and be ready to cut ties when a better opportunity arises.
When you're online dont look at yourself as a female either, look at yourself as someone trying to progress, let your skills speak for you rather than your gender, if the nerds can't handle it move on.
i understand you op. Funny though this is not just a females problem. I hate feeling "obligated" in mmos and its for this reason i dont join guilds and that I mostly play solo. I dont mind helping people but i do not like the type of people/guilds that are bombarding me the second i login with this " what are we going to do to help me(them)?" attitudes or the guilds that run activities that always only benefit the leaders and their close friends and family. As for younger guys, most are thinking of sex every 10 secs even in a mmo and if they even think your a girl youre fair game.
tips
never use voice chat.. its not needed (we did just fine for a decade without it)
tell everyone youre a guy even if you play a female character. it just saves you from a lot of hassle
I'm gonna be the bad guy here and ask.....How and why do you show yourself as a female game player? I mean why even make the choice? My mom has been games since forever and only has had a couple of instances where a douche even contacted her. On the other hand...my ex wife went out of her way to play the girlie game card to get flirts.
I AM NOT SAYING...you did the latter....but why associate yourself as anything but a gamer?
Again...this is from the "Devil's Advocate" angle...but I have always wondered why guys play female characters and why girls feel the need to let everyone know and then feel surprised when some douche acts like he does.
Please don't take this wrong.....I am a guy and prone to eat my foot a lot.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Probably hard to avoid the "I'm a girl" when voice chatting in vent etc....
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I've seen this happen over and over again. What do you get when you put a bunch of lonely desperate guys together with one lone female? Your situation. It won't get better if you ignore it either, if anything it will get worse as more, crazier people are added to the mix or somebody "falls in love" with you and starts some shit. This has happened in a couple of guilds I've been in over the years and said guilds broke up because of it.
Your only real defense is to play a male character and never get on voice com... I actually know a few women that do this just to avoid issues. Sad, but it's how things are. You could also just tell them you're married with 6 kids or something too, that would probably cool most of their jets.
My advice? Find a group of people you get along with and play with them, hell with everybody else. You don't need a large group to do most things in MMO's these days anyway.
So...the whole thing stemmed from voice chat? I didn't read it that way but maybe should have.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
@Gestankfaust
Because sin is fun. The only time I ever played as a girl was in Guild Wars 1, because all my friends didn't want to play, so I was like, why not. Because you see, my friends always peer pressured me that it was wrong to play a girl. So I felt rebellious with the pressure was no longer present.
I had my fun, till people said Wammos are evil, and I deleted her. But it's not wrong to play a female. In fact it can be very educational and healthy. But I don't tell anybody I don't trust about it.