Originally posted by justmemyselfandiAh yes, the Mighty Chris Roberts is immune to government oversight and intervention.Not.You think they'll only go for Chris without going for Kickstarter as well, implementing the stringent regulations and consumer protections that should have been there from the beginning?
Again, there is nothing they can do. It is his company, his money - there is no liability, people stuffed the money inside his pockets.
Backing Kickstarter does not put you on terms as a consumer, you are a donor. He can do whatever he wants with the money collected, it is completely legal.
What I find funniest with everything about SC over the past week is that, as MMORPG players, we should have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to develop an MMORPG.
Because being an MMO player qualifies you as MMO developer/producer, right?
Please no...
No, because MMO players are used to wait 2-3 years after a game is announced to see it released and then it needs another year to get playable and that game was already a good 2 years in development when you learned about it. That was the timeframe for normally published games. For early access/crowdfunded games, you learn about their existence about 6 months after the devs came up with an idea (sometimes even less). That means you are going to wait the entire duration of the game development time: that means 5 years average for MMOs (although the last two to release, WildStar/ESO, took over 7 years).
Everything is delayed and they have no real information to give, but everything's still all right because the devs say so and give us a hell lot of vague and unverifiable reasons.
A community manager is payed to say good things even if they are not true. My god gamer's can be so gullible. I find it funny that this comes out after what Derek Smart said about the direction of the game. Maybe he hit a nerve.
More interesting the issues he raised are the only ones they DON'T adress, and to be fair those issues are the ones they really need to adress, either by doing some in depth explanation on how they are going to make the seamless world actually work, or better yet by delivering an ACTUAL WORKING PROTOTYPE!
Elite did this early in development, but only for its intended limited scope, so have No Mans Sky. If SC is to deliver within the next few years they should have a working prototype to show off by now. The simple fact that they dont is the most alarming thing about this whole project, and completely fail to adress the issue.
They might be able to pull of a wonder, but throwing manpower at the problem, unlike game assets, wont help them. Actual coding talent is required.
Originally posted by azarhal No, because MMO players are used to wait 2-3 years after a game is announced to see it released and then it needs another year to get playable and that game was already a good 2 years in development when you learned about it. That was the timeframe for normally published games. For early access/crowdfunded games, you learn about their existence about 6 months after the devs came up with an idea (sometimes even less). That means you are going to wait the entire duration of the game development time: that means 5 years average for MMOs (although the last two to release, WildStar/ESO, took over 7 years).
Average numbers do not apply to particular case. You are further proving my point :-P
Another episode of "we do not make marketing plans" but acting according to a marketing plan.
A huge post of "answers" (quotes in purpose) directed not to answer anything for people with concern, doubts, etc., but instead, to say what the fans (whales) want to hear. Summarized all in "concerns are invalid" and "fanboy/white-knights answers, are always the right ones"). Playing the fanboy hero... again.
All vague excuses and hilarious explanations about feature creep for example. Only fanboys would swallow that kind of answer, and they know that.
They are just worried that the concerns and doubts could influence whales to give them less money. Not interested at all to answer the real questions.
It has been their strategy from the day one. Concerns are considered a problem and must to be hidden from the eyes of the whales in some way. Their strategy and focus always was that and that's the purpose of his post.
Then, comes the real questions, the real concerns in the same thread start to appear, and he quickly change the face of the good guy, to start to give those tips of threats that in case some question persists, the ban hammer will lock his target. Fled and ignore the real ones.
Obviously. The reason is obvious. It always come to the fact that this company is not customer oriented. They want your money, not to make you happy. Actually they want your money and then, want you making them happy, staying in the line, and spreading the word and avoid "controversial topics". If you do that, good luck. An angry customer for fair reasons, for their mistakes, is what they call "a troll" and the party goes on.
Not been customer oriented, means that even that they know a lot of design and direction that won't change along the project, they won't tell you, will try their best to avoid to answer earlier. Instead, they will give you hope and want you stay there, looking to them for new information (you can't sell ships if people do not visit the website were they are sold).
And even if they know the direction and that won't change, they want you keep there, because maybe you know... you could be seduced by some other thing, some fancy ship, and would ignore that earlier concern, or even if you did not ignore, you ended spending a little more.
It's much better than state something now, and losing this opportunity to milk much more people that wouldn't give any dime anymore if knowing that information that they hold.
Tl;dr: Just one more show of Mr. Lesnick playing the fanboy hero, not answering anything except with arguments "I cried" (like if any fanboy was some kind of fan who scream helmet, helmet for whatever animation displayed). Or even giving more food to show how incompetent they are, like not having the insight, for example, that launching that patch with just 3 trophies, after not releasing anything for a long time, and keep saying that has 300+ employees working hard and advancing with the tasks, were terrible PR, bad timing, and failed to see how they show themselves incompetent of tying core code that influences the entire game, or other modules, to one module, and later "having to figure out" if they maybe could, separate the stuff. A post targeted to the ears of a fanboy, not to the ears of a person with concerns or doubts. A post made, just because they are worried that concerns and doubts, could influence whales to close their pockets. Nothing more than that. Period.
Some might say they stopped feature creep once it was realized it'd already gone further than was ever reasonable.
The thing about feature creep is pretty simple.
Star Citizen was promised to be delivered in the 2 year time period. They did not achieve that target. The game as promised, was a BDSSE, the ultimate of the ultimate of the games, and included Squadron 42 + PU + stretch goals, that, per the own statements of Chris Roberts, were all that he dreamed of to put in a game, his vision that he pursuit along years (no backers should give a dime for him beyond 6 million dollars, and he still would be required to deliver that, in the time promised). That's it.
So, whatever they put in the game and is beyond that is feature creep. People keep saying that "oh, but they did not make stretch goals anymore since a long time now", while in fact, the bigger feature creep of this project, are not described in stretch goals.
To you see feature creep in the context of Star Citizen project is pretty simple. You just have to ask yourself:
- This game element that was added, be a feature, part of a feature, asset or detail in some asset, is really required to deliver the already delayed game as the Best Damn Space Sim Ever? Or if you cut that out, you still get the Best Damn Space Sim Ever?
Pretty simple. If for the feature, or set of feature, or details, assets, the answer was "Yes, that was not really required. Without that, still would be BDSSE", and most importantly, if that feature, detail, asset, whatever, HOLD your release, or make it delay more, be from a release of an Alpha/Beta or even the full game... YES... that feature is feature creep. Period.
No, because MMO players are used to wait 2-3 years after a game is announced to see it released and then it needs another year to get playable and that game was already a good 2 years in development when you learned about it. That was the timeframe for normally published games. For early access/crowdfunded games, you learn about their existence about 6 months after the devs came up with an idea (sometimes even less). That means you are going to wait the entire duration of the game development time: that means 5 years average for MMOs (although the last two to release, WildStar/ESO, took over 7 years).
Average numbers do not apply to particular case. You are further proving my point :-P
What I find funniest with everything about SC over the past week is that, as MMORPG players, we should have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to develop an MMORPG.
Because being an MMO player qualifies you as MMO developer/producer, right?
Please no...
No, because MMO players are used to wait 2-3 years after a game is announced to see it released and then it needs another year to get playable and that game was already a good 2 years in development when you learned about it. That was the timeframe for normally published games. For early access/crowdfunded games, you learn about their existence about 6 months after the devs came up with an idea (sometimes even less). That means you are going to wait the entire duration of the game development time: that means 5 years average for MMOs (although the last two to release, WildStar/ESO, took over 7 years).
Exactly...... but let's continue to gather our pitch forks, because everyone loves a good witch hunt!!
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
From a long time they broke their deal.
They told that they would use the money to build the game.
Still, they are using the money to keep reserves for the company and are only working or producing, based in the revenue that they earn with more ship sales.
Wait? If the backer money is to keep reserves for a company, they should start to release much more information, because we are now investors, not backers of a game.
People signed to sustain a company or to produce a game? The backers money should be used to the game. Roberts and associates money should be used to keep the company or reserves if they wanted to, after all, they still should be counting on sales after the game released. Or not?
They even told that after acquired the entire quantity of money needed, and even after having 4 times above, if the money stopped the game would be yet delivered but "without the level of advance" that they are doing now? (can you imagine that? what would be of this game if going even more slowly?)
People (fans) that are following this project lost tons of brain cells swallowing the Roberts speech without think, to do not see what that means and the serious implications of that.
None of this changes the fact that the doomsayers are simply showing how little they know about game dev and how shallow their views and opinions are on it.
Seriously kids, take your zoloft, calm down and wait until it is gold to start flipping out like 10y old kids fresh off a bad call of duty match.
Everything is delayed and they have no real information to give, but everything's still all right because the devs say so and give us a hell lot of vague and unverifiable reasons.
"It was incredibly early temp footage… lips sometimes didn’t move, objects were missing texture, crowd scenes were empty… but I teared up like a baby seeing it."
How possibly could you have any concern/doubt/questions past, present or future, after hearing this ultimate answer that prove you and all the doubters wrong?
Exactly...... but let's continue to gather our pitch forks, because everyone loves a good witch hunt!!
What I see is a lot of people who have this or that agenda against crowd-funding, or a regret about putting money in without realizing what they're doing when they do so. It's a donation...
On top of that many argue along the lines of it being bad for them to put the money into the company itself, when that is the backbone of sustaining the game, as well as ensuring it's completion. No company = No SC...
In short most of these arguments aren't worth the effort to refute.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
"We are not concerned, and you shouldn’t be either. We saw the same trend last year, and are keenly aware that interest in Star Citizen is based on our ability to deliver fresh content."
That basically means that they think that gamers or disappoints never affect anything. Perception is not something built along the way. Its something that could be wiped like magic... Gamers are dumb. Hardcore gamers are now behaving just like casual players who don't care with what devs do, say, or deliver, or if do things for milking purposes.
Release a fancy graphical tech demo, to be consumed in a few hours by any serious hardcore gamer and they all will come back, renew their trust and throw more money in their faces again.
One more of those things that he is saying what the whales want to hear. As basically only whales have been raising their dollars and that dropped (even some whales can't be delusional forever), he gives reasons that they are confident, to make they feel that they are not been exploited too much, while others (more smart) are just waiting for 2025 to get everything done and smoothly, or, if it never happens, would not lose anything.
And, again, it shows how they simply dismiss that after a long time, a long road of delays, crashes and cash grabbing, and delivering the less than half game that will come in the day one, with the excuse, "but but, it will be always in development", everyone will be pleased by the shiny ship porn and giving no higher weight in bugs in anything.
"Gamers are all casual"... that's what he is saying.
They obviously did not listen to the alerts. Consider that hate, like a teenager would hate the advice of a father. Well... like a stubborn teenager, they will learn suffering (and ruining the entire thing in the process).
It's funny. Watch they making a game for one of the most hardcore group between gamers, and acting like if they were casual, or even if they are casual, with less time to play, they still are more adults and give much more value to more than just the game, but also how the devs behind the game behave, act, and if they are reliable or not, or just say again and again what you want to hear to see that can get more of your money... in other words, that all the public of this game would behave like casual in the end.
What IF Mr. Lesnick... What IF, people hold their pockets because disappointments caused by your own failures. You want to say that you are confident and this or that... but have you stopped to figure out that in ALL your previous communication/plans shared, all them you were confident and then... it failed?
Do you think that people forgive again and again? Yes, they forgave you in the AC release, but now they have FPS bs coming and while they forgave that, they remember, and they remember what you said and they see you just coming again and again with the same excuse, and you hope that whatever new tech demo, gloriously delayed, will make their minds again?
So, considering that the "revenue" maybe do not come anymore "as last year" should people be worried Mr. Lesnick? Would your boss stop to save profit and put it into the production of the game then?
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
If you believe what CIG says though that 85 million is actually worth 340 million because its crowdfunded money and goes all to the devs(minus kickstarter fees from the initial backing)
Exactly...... but let's continue to gather our pitch forks, because everyone loves a good witch hunt!!
What I see is a lot of people who have this or that agenda against crowd-funding, or a regret about putting money in without realizing what they're doing when they do so. It's a donation...
On top of that many argue along the lines of it being bad for CIG to put the money into the company itself, when that is the backbone of sustaining the game, as well as ensuring it's completion. No CIG = No SC...
In short most of these arguments aren't worth the effort to refute.
Amen
I don't know much about writing software, but I do run a Designing/Prototyping/Fabricating/Manufacturing company employing 36 people. Most have not a clue about the costs of running a business and the amount of Bullshit in these threads always makes for good entertainment.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
So... you know more than Chris Roberts then? Because he told that people exaggerate these things, in the beginning of his campaign. He said, by that time, that his BDSSE could perfectly come in all awesomeness and destroying any 'current' AAA game, just having 20 million dollars in hands.
He even said that his dollar represents 4 in any other development because he has no publisher. Meaning, that, in terms of money gave directly to the development, he has now "320 million dollars" if that was a money given to one of these other projects that you use as examples.
Originally posted by vgamer Good from CR to address this. Star Citizen will be the best game ever to grace mankind and you will all apologize when the day comes that His vision is realized. We fans will endure all hardships no matter all the illegitimate criticism and we will keep buying ships to support Him and His company! I wish CR would just give us a paypal number where we can directly funnel our cash into his pockets to speed up development.
I agree. But I disagree with something. We won't be alive when the vision be realized. I don't think that I can live until the age of 150 (Im 37). Maybe our grandchildren will see? Anyway, I care with the future generations, so, why the hell there are no more JPEG's offered that I could buy?
I already bought 100 of those Starliner JPEGS... created 100 multiple accounts to help in their marketing yesterday... but I am a human being with selfish interest too and wishes... at least, I need a different one. I am starting to be concerned that they are not releasing neither the JPEG's fast enough. Maybe all these naysayers could be right then?
But I am strong. No matter what they say, I am going to keep thinking in the BDSSE that my grandchildren will see. They are all goons or EA employees after all. I hope that Roberts/Sandi son has been educated to complete the vision too. Or maybe Master Roberts have more magic powers than we don't know.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk What I find funniest with everything about SC over the past week is that, as MMORPG players, we should have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to develop an MMORPG. In fact, I think that when the SC Kickstarter was released there were plenty of people calling BS. 5 years is pretty much the time to market for an MMORPG. If I'm out of line on that, please feel free to tell me otherwise. Why people believe that SC would be any different is beyond me. It's fine if you feel like the model is effed. Plenty do, and it's not "unfair". However, they will try to make money. Don't buy the damn product. If you want to hold their feet to flame then feel free to do so when it's reasonable. So ttfn, talk to you in 2017.
Not all customers that pledged for this project are MMORPG players or know things about development. That's why there are obligations and responsibilities of companies when doing business with customers in general.
So, when the "Master of the Gods of the Game Industry" comes and say that he can make in two years, you would consider that he can, even been a MMORPG player.
You would say: "But he wouldn't be crazy to say such thing to people and then, do not fulfill. Wouldn't make any sense!".
And here we are.
Your advice is obvioulsy, the best one. But its sad, because due bad developers and money makers like Roberts, the good developers that could use earlier access and crowd-funding as a way, end suffering.
Who would believe in whatever indie that comes with a nice idea, reasonable, not impossible like the Roberts "vision". Nobody. Maybe a few Roberts fans would jump to help. But the recent crowd-funding campaigns of Space Sims have been proven that the group of followers of Roberts are not enough and their attitude, both of the group and of the company, is making sure to keep away a larger public. It's the end of the crowd-funding... supposedly to be boosted by Star Citizen, but ended ruined by what they started to do after ended the original campaign when they figured out that selling ships, in the vibe of those few whales behind them, would be better than sell or believe that the game could sell in the future.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
So... you know more than Chris Roberts then? Because he told that people exaggerate these things, in the beginning of his campaign. He said, by that time, that his BDSSE could perfectly come in all awesomeness and destroying any 'current' AAA game, just having 20 million dollars in hands.
He even said that his dollar represents 4 in any other development because he has no publisher. Meaning, that, in terms of money gave directly to the development, he has now "320 million dollars" if that was a money given to one of these other projects that you use as examples.
Ooo dont take me as defending KSers. I think they often are putting the money in the hands of people that should not have it. In the case of SC, IMO Chris is fast learning 85 mill can be spent real fast. Heck a staff of 200 can cost 10 mill a year if the average is only 50k a year. Building to house that many costs about 80-200k a day, just to turn the lights when you walk in the door. Sure 85 mill is worth more because he has no interest to pay back but he still only has 85 mill. About 15 mill short of the starting cap to enter the game as a triple A MMO. Why people kept chucking 300-400 bucks a pop at a guy that has not proven he can handle a business that big I have no clue. I think KSers in a few years will be a sore spot for gamers they will not be happy to talk about.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
Yeah, it's a tight budget when you have all sorts of overhead because you're a AAA dev studio working for a publisher. The entire point of indie gaming is that it's just you and your team creating product and nothing is creating red tape for you to overcome. I wonder how much of those AAA budgets goes purely into development.
The Secret World - $50 million dollars.
DCUO - $50 million dollars.
Defiance - $70 million dollars.
Destiny - $170 million dollars.
$85M for an indie company is not a "tight budget" - unless you're mismanaging the funds. They're playing with big name levels of money. Maybe not biggest, but definitely big.
Ooo dont take me as defending KSers. I think they often are putting the money in the hands of people that should not have it. In the case of SC, IMO Chris is fast learning 85 mill can be spent real fast. Heck a staff of 200 can cost 10 mill a year if the average is only 50k a year. Building to house that many costs about 80-200k just to turn the lights on every day. Sure 85 mill is worth more because he has no interest to pay back but he still only has 85 mill. About 15 mill short of the starting cap to enter the game as a triple A MMO. Why people kept chucking 300-400 bucks a pop at a guy that has not proven he can handle a business that big I have no clue. I think KSers in a few years will be a sore spot for gamers they will not be happy to talk about.
And you know about theses 200 in the staff, how exactly?
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
Yeah, it's a tight budget when you have all sorts of overhead because you're a AAA dev studio working for a publisher. The entire point of indie gaming is that it's just you and your team creating product and nothing is creating red tape for you to overcome. I wonder how much of those AAA budgets goes purely into development.
The Secret World - $50 million dollars.
DCUO - $50 million dollars.
Defiance - $70 million dollars.
Destiny - $170 million dollars.
$85M for an indie company is not a "tight budget" - unless you're mismanaging the funds. They're playing with big name levels of money. Maybe not biggest, but definitely big.
The thing with SC though is that it is aiming for AAA quality, combine that with the scope of the project, you have a much different beast than what is considered a typical indie game. Cutting edge tech, all the bells and whistles of a AAA project, massive scope, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
There is nothing FTC can do... Kickstarter money bear no liability, the reason why developers use kickstarter in the first place.
Again, there is nothing they can do. It is his company, his money - there is no liability, people stuffed the money inside his pockets.
Backing Kickstarter does not put you on terms as a consumer, you are a donor. He can do whatever he wants with the money collected, it is completely legal.
No, because MMO players are used to wait 2-3 years after a game is announced to see it released and then it needs another year to get playable and that game was already a good 2 years in development when you learned about it. That was the timeframe for normally published games. For early access/crowdfunded games, you learn about their existence about 6 months after the devs came up with an idea (sometimes even less). That means you are going to wait the entire duration of the game development time: that means 5 years average for MMOs (although the last two to release, WildStar/ESO, took over 7 years).
More interesting the issues he raised are the only ones they DON'T adress, and to be fair those issues are the ones they really need to adress, either by doing some in depth explanation on how they are going to make the seamless world actually work, or better yet by delivering an ACTUAL WORKING PROTOTYPE!
Elite did this early in development, but only for its intended limited scope, so have No Mans Sky. If SC is to deliver within the next few years they should have a working prototype to show off by now. The simple fact that they dont is the most alarming thing about this whole project, and completely fail to adress the issue.
They might be able to pull of a wonder, but throwing manpower at the problem, unlike game assets, wont help them. Actual coding talent is required.
Average numbers do not apply to particular case. You are further proving my point :-P
Another episode of "we do not make marketing plans" but acting according to a marketing plan.
A huge post of "answers" (quotes in purpose) directed not to answer anything for people with concern, doubts, etc., but instead, to say what the fans (whales) want to hear. Summarized all in "concerns are invalid" and "fanboy/white-knights answers, are always the right ones"). Playing the fanboy hero... again.
All vague excuses and hilarious explanations about feature creep for example. Only fanboys would swallow that kind of answer, and they know that.
They are just worried that the concerns and doubts could influence whales to give them less money. Not interested at all to answer the real questions.
It has been their strategy from the day one. Concerns are considered a problem and must to be hidden from the eyes of the whales in some way. Their strategy and focus always was that and that's the purpose of his post.
Then, comes the real questions, the real concerns in the same thread start to appear, and he quickly change the face of the good guy, to start to give those tips of threats that in case some question persists, the ban hammer will lock his target. Fled and ignore the real ones.
Obviously. The reason is obvious. It always come to the fact that this company is not customer oriented. They want your money, not to make you happy. Actually they want your money and then, want you making them happy, staying in the line, and spreading the word and avoid "controversial topics". If you do that, good luck. An angry customer for fair reasons, for their mistakes, is what they call "a troll" and the party goes on.
Not been customer oriented, means that even that they know a lot of design and direction that won't change along the project, they won't tell you, will try their best to avoid to answer earlier. Instead, they will give you hope and want you stay there, looking to them for new information (you can't sell ships if people do not visit the website were they are sold).
And even if they know the direction and that won't change, they want you keep there, because maybe you know... you could be seduced by some other thing, some fancy ship, and would ignore that earlier concern, or even if you did not ignore, you ended spending a little more.
It's much better than state something now, and losing this opportunity to milk much more people that wouldn't give any dime anymore if knowing that information that they hold.
Tl;dr: Just one more show of Mr. Lesnick playing the fanboy hero, not answering anything except with arguments "I cried" (like if any fanboy was some kind of fan who scream helmet, helmet for whatever animation displayed). Or even giving more food to show how incompetent they are, like not having the insight, for example, that launching that patch with just 3 trophies, after not releasing anything for a long time, and keep saying that has 300+ employees working hard and advancing with the tasks, were terrible PR, bad timing, and failed to see how they show themselves incompetent of tying core code that influences the entire game, or other modules, to one module, and later "having to figure out" if they maybe could, separate the stuff. A post targeted to the ears of a fanboy, not to the ears of a person with concerns or doubts. A post made, just because they are worried that concerns and doubts, could influence whales to close their pockets. Nothing more than that. Period.
The thing about feature creep is pretty simple.
Star Citizen was promised to be delivered in the 2 year time period. They did not achieve that target. The game as promised, was a BDSSE, the ultimate of the ultimate of the games, and included Squadron 42 + PU + stretch goals, that, per the own statements of Chris Roberts, were all that he dreamed of to put in a game, his vision that he pursuit along years (no backers should give a dime for him beyond 6 million dollars, and he still would be required to deliver that, in the time promised). That's it.
So, whatever they put in the game and is beyond that is feature creep. People keep saying that "oh, but they did not make stretch goals anymore since a long time now", while in fact, the bigger feature creep of this project, are not described in stretch goals.
To you see feature creep in the context of Star Citizen project is pretty simple. You just have to ask yourself:
- This game element that was added, be a feature, part of a feature, asset or detail in some asset, is really required to deliver the already delayed game as the Best Damn Space Sim Ever? Or if you cut that out, you still get the Best Damn Space Sim Ever?
Pretty simple. If for the feature, or set of feature, or details, assets, the answer was "Yes, that was not really required. Without that, still would be BDSSE", and most importantly, if that feature, detail, asset, whatever, HOLD your release, or make it delay more, be from a release of an Alpha/Beta or even the full game... YES... that feature is feature creep. Period.
Statistic applies to everything, even you.
Exactly...... but let's continue to gather our pitch forks, because everyone loves a good witch hunt!!
Crazkanuk
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From a long time they broke their deal.
They told that they would use the money to build the game.
Still, they are using the money to keep reserves for the company and are only working or producing, based in the revenue that they earn with more ship sales.
Wait? If the backer money is to keep reserves for a company, they should start to release much more information, because we are now investors, not backers of a game.
People signed to sustain a company or to produce a game? The backers money should be used to the game. Roberts and associates money should be used to keep the company or reserves if they wanted to, after all, they still should be counting on sales after the game released. Or not?
They even told that after acquired the entire quantity of money needed, and even after having 4 times above, if the money stopped the game would be yet delivered but "without the level of advance" that they are doing now? (can you imagine that? what would be of this game if going even more slowly?)
People (fans) that are following this project lost tons of brain cells swallowing the Roberts speech without think, to do not see what that means and the serious implications of that.
None of this changes the fact that the doomsayers are simply showing how little they know about game dev and how shallow their views and opinions are on it.
Seriously kids, take your zoloft, calm down and wait until it is gold to start flipping out like 10y old kids fresh off a bad call of duty match.
"It was incredibly early temp footage… lips sometimes didn’t move, objects were missing texture, crowd scenes were empty… but I teared up like a baby seeing it."
How possibly could you have any concern/doubt/questions past, present or future, after hearing this ultimate answer that prove you and all the doubters wrong?
LoL
"Helmet! Helmet! Helmet..."
What I see is a lot of people who have this or that agenda against crowd-funding, or a regret about putting money in without realizing what they're doing when they do so. It's a donation...
On top of that many argue along the lines of it being bad for them to put the money into the company itself, when that is the backbone of sustaining the game, as well as ensuring it's completion. No company = No SC...
In short most of these arguments aren't worth the effort to refute.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Average 2d6 dice roll is 7. Does that mean when you roll a dice, you will roll a 7? No, it does not.
Truly wondering what makes you engaging in this kind of discussion...
Your post shows how little you know. A Tripple A MMO starting point is 100 mill, some of the bigger and better games were 200 mill+. 85 mill is a tight budget.
"We are not concerned, and you shouldn’t be either. We saw the same trend last year, and are keenly aware that interest in Star Citizen is based on our ability to deliver fresh content."
That basically means that they think that gamers or disappoints never affect anything. Perception is not something built along the way. Its something that could be wiped like magic... Gamers are dumb. Hardcore gamers are now behaving just like casual players who don't care with what devs do, say, or deliver, or if do things for milking purposes.
Release a fancy graphical tech demo, to be consumed in a few hours by any serious hardcore gamer and they all will come back, renew their trust and throw more money in their faces again.
One more of those things that he is saying what the whales want to hear. As basically only whales have been raising their dollars and that dropped (even some whales can't be delusional forever), he gives reasons that they are confident, to make they feel that they are not been exploited too much, while others (more smart) are just waiting for 2025 to get everything done and smoothly, or, if it never happens, would not lose anything.
And, again, it shows how they simply dismiss that after a long time, a long road of delays, crashes and cash grabbing, and delivering the less than half game that will come in the day one, with the excuse, "but but, it will be always in development", everyone will be pleased by the shiny ship porn and giving no higher weight in bugs in anything.
"Gamers are all casual"... that's what he is saying.
They obviously did not listen to the alerts. Consider that hate, like a teenager would hate the advice of a father. Well... like a stubborn teenager, they will learn suffering (and ruining the entire thing in the process).
It's funny. Watch they making a game for one of the most hardcore group between gamers, and acting like if they were casual, or even if they are casual, with less time to play, they still are more adults and give much more value to more than just the game, but also how the devs behind the game behave, act, and if they are reliable or not, or just say again and again what you want to hear to see that can get more of your money... in other words, that all the public of this game would behave like casual in the end.
What IF Mr. Lesnick... What IF, people hold their pockets because disappointments caused by your own failures. You want to say that you are confident and this or that... but have you stopped to figure out that in ALL your previous communication/plans shared, all them you were confident and then... it failed?
Do you think that people forgive again and again? Yes, they forgave you in the AC release, but now they have FPS bs coming and while they forgave that, they remember, and they remember what you said and they see you just coming again and again with the same excuse, and you hope that whatever new tech demo, gloriously delayed, will make their minds again?
So, considering that the "revenue" maybe do not come anymore "as last year" should people be worried Mr. Lesnick? Would your boss stop to save profit and put it into the production of the game then?
If you believe what CIG says though that 85 million is actually worth 340 million because its crowdfunded money and goes all to the devs(minus kickstarter fees from the initial backing)
Amen
I don't know much about writing software, but I do run a Designing/Prototyping/Fabricating/Manufacturing company employing 36 people. Most have not a clue about the costs of running a business and the amount of Bullshit in these threads always makes for good entertainment.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
So... you know more than Chris Roberts then? Because he told that people exaggerate these things, in the beginning of his campaign. He said, by that time, that his BDSSE could perfectly come in all awesomeness and destroying any 'current' AAA game, just having 20 million dollars in hands.
He even said that his dollar represents 4 in any other development because he has no publisher. Meaning, that, in terms of money gave directly to the development, he has now "320 million dollars" if that was a money given to one of these other projects that you use as examples.
I agree. But I disagree with something. We won't be alive when the vision be realized. I don't think that I can live until the age of 150 (Im 37). Maybe our grandchildren will see? Anyway, I care with the future generations, so, why the hell there are no more JPEG's offered that I could buy?
I already bought 100 of those Starliner JPEGS... created 100 multiple accounts to help in their marketing yesterday... but I am a human being with selfish interest too and wishes... at least, I need a different one. I am starting to be concerned that they are not releasing neither the JPEG's fast enough. Maybe all these naysayers could be right then?
But I am strong. No matter what they say, I am going to keep thinking in the BDSSE that my grandchildren will see. They are all goons or EA employees after all. I hope that Roberts/Sandi son has been educated to complete the vision too. Or maybe Master Roberts have more magic powers than we don't know.
Not all customers that pledged for this project are MMORPG players or know things about development. That's why there are obligations and responsibilities of companies when doing business with customers in general.
So, when the "Master of the Gods of the Game Industry" comes and say that he can make in two years, you would consider that he can, even been a MMORPG player.
You would say: "But he wouldn't be crazy to say such thing to people and then, do not fulfill. Wouldn't make any sense!".
And here we are.
Your advice is obvioulsy, the best one. But its sad, because due bad developers and money makers like Roberts, the good developers that could use earlier access and crowd-funding as a way, end suffering.
Who would believe in whatever indie that comes with a nice idea, reasonable, not impossible like the Roberts "vision". Nobody. Maybe a few Roberts fans would jump to help. But the recent crowd-funding campaigns of Space Sims have been proven that the group of followers of Roberts are not enough and their attitude, both of the group and of the company, is making sure to keep away a larger public. It's the end of the crowd-funding... supposedly to be boosted by Star Citizen, but ended ruined by what they started to do after ended the original campaign when they figured out that selling ships, in the vibe of those few whales behind them, would be better than sell or believe that the game could sell in the future.
Ooo dont take me as defending KSers. I think they often are putting the money in the hands of people that should not have it. In the case of SC, IMO Chris is fast learning 85 mill can be spent real fast. Heck a staff of 200 can cost 10 mill a year if the average is only 50k a year. Building to house that many costs about 80-200k a day, just to turn the lights when you walk in the door. Sure 85 mill is worth more because he has no interest to pay back but he still only has 85 mill. About 15 mill short of the starting cap to enter the game as a triple A MMO. Why people kept chucking 300-400 bucks a pop at a guy that has not proven he can handle a business that big I have no clue. I think KSers in a few years will be a sore spot for gamers they will not be happy to talk about.
Yeah, it's a tight budget when you have all sorts of overhead because you're a AAA dev studio working for a publisher. The entire point of indie gaming is that it's just you and your team creating product and nothing is creating red tape for you to overcome. I wonder how much of those AAA budgets goes purely into development.
The Secret World - $50 million dollars.
DCUO - $50 million dollars.
Defiance - $70 million dollars.
Destiny - $170 million dollars.
$85M for an indie company is not a "tight budget" - unless you're mismanaging the funds. They're playing with big name levels of money. Maybe not biggest, but definitely big.
And you know about theses 200 in the staff, how exactly?
The thing with SC though is that it is aiming for AAA quality, combine that with the scope of the project, you have a much different beast than what is considered a typical indie game. Cutting edge tech, all the bells and whistles of a AAA project, massive scope, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson