All I know is that they are acting as if money is going to continue to flow in and thus are being deliberate. That is 10000% the wrong way to do business. They need to act with urgency as if funding could stop at any moment. All of these delays just make them look incompetent at best.
The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
mislead consumers and
affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
Just about everything is open to interpretation. Legal systems makes sure of that... kind of a conflict of interest make work project. Otherwise we'd have a hell of a lot of unemployed lawyers.
The interpretation is of who RULES, OVERSEES and REGULATES the matter in the country that CIG is inside, meaning, you follow that, or ask that FTC does not rule, oversees and regulate that anymore, ok? Send a letter to your congress man asking for that then.
LoL
Of course there are NO unemployed lawyers that try to defend a case like would be one opened against CIG, all things considered... And they know that are earning money from a dumb customer that cannot see a lost cause
I dont have a congress man... like you I'm Canadian.
Quite the expert... You like to talk a lot of bullshit just like a lawyer, are you one?
The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
mislead consumers and
affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
However, only a portion of the money so far contributed to SC has come from Kickstarter. Therein lies the rub. Since CIG is doing there own collection of monies now, a whole new set of rules can apply.
There is no misleading rule that you could put in any Terms of Services that could remove customer rights or contradict advertised statements. If that is the case, the deal became abusive beyond customer rights and is immediatelly discarded as a matter of the defense.
And pay attention to these, to those who presume that a disclaimer means more than it actually means (source: Federal Trade Comission):
"
Disclaimers and disclosures must be clear and conspicuous. That is, consumers must be able to notice, read or hear, and understand the information. Still, a disclaimer or disclosure ALONE usually is not enough to remedy a false or deceptive claim.
"
In fact, CIG made sure to change his TOS along the road in such way, that it can be more used as a matter to prosecute them, than to defend them. It's useless.. They are out in the wind, just waiting for some backer that spend a lot of money to be really pissed of... or a good quantity of backers complain to FTC and they just "look" to the situation for a few days.
People and you also failed to see something very important. While the advertising of other crowd-funding campaigns could promise just a final product and be very specific about delay possibilities and this way... that was NOT ONLY what CIG advertised. They also advertised... and STRONGLY... SERVICES and EXCLUSIVITIES and LATER, did not accomplish with such services and excluvities, for the sake to gather more money. This is not JUST classified as a misleading the customer, but also as an bad faith on business (good faith... a word that they used in their TOS by the way). And they also advertised that if they received MORE money they would release the game as promised EARLIER, in a matter of fact, in the "2 year time period" (and not later as they are doing). So, here you have a serious difference between the CIG Kickstarter pitch and others. And that basically let them, as I said, like a ball in below the goal without defense possible... just waiting for someone to give the kick, because it's basically impossible to miss the goal.
Did they say the could, or would release sooner if they got extra money? Have they passed their promise release date?
Campaign ended on November 2012. About services (just an example, there are more):
The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public.
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other KS campaigns (example: Frontier DEv - Elite Dangerous), usually are safe from false ad claims, because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays - again, customers never can be assumed as experts. But developers making the pitch, yes... they are. How possibly they couldn't know that the game is impossible to make in 2 years. When the leader of the gods make such statement, people would expect, AS EXPECTED, many people, that they were already advanced in the development and/or found some new innovative tech to deliver faster.
(remember that many KS are exactly about innonative tech)
That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other pitches, usually are safe from false ad claims because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays. That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
As a long time MMOer, I just dont see it. We know the time it takes to make a tripple A MMO, they know it. Sit back and wait like everyone does for the game they want. Im waiting for EQN win or fail. I know I am in for a long ride because I have done this before and I will do it again till I am old and I forget where I am and why I am doing it.
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other KS campaigns (example: Frontier DEv - Elite Dangerous), usually are safe from false ad claims, because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays - again, customers never can be assumed as experts. But developers making the pitch, yes... they are. How possibly they couldn't know that the game is impossible to make in 2 years. When the leader of the gods make such statement, people would expect, AS EXPECTED, many people, that they were already advanced in the development and/or found some new innovative tech to deliver faster.
(remember that many KS are exactly about innonative tech)
That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
They made no promises, did they? I don't remember these promises. Feel free to point them out on the campaign though.
As far as Elite: Dangerous, though, they actually said there would be a single player mode, which never materialized. So that was actually something that was mentioned which they never physically delivered. You seem ok with that for some reason, though, since you continually mention them.
Again, you're making a whole lot of assertions based on opinion instead of fact.
That was funny to re-read after what I read after that.
There ARE a few facts, though. First of all, you keep talking about Legal Obligations. The only legal obligation is that they make every effort to deliver the project (which they are) and if they don't then they need to bring the project to a conclusion that satisfies their backers. There is zero legal obligation, unless you outright are doing nothing.
"Marketing and advertising your products or services effectively is key to the success of your business. However, all businesses have a legal responsibility to ensure that any advertising claims are truthful, not deceptive and that your marketing activities don’t break the law."
"The Internet connects marketers to customers across the country and around the world. If you advertising online, remember the rules and guidelines that protect consumers also help businesses by maintaining the credibility of the Internet as a marketing medium. In addition, truth-in-advertising standards apply if you sell computers, software, apps, or other products or services.
"
Just a reminder. The advertising of CIG promises product and services. Not just the product, or just a try to make a product. Its a promise to deliver the product and services. Not a promise to try to make it. If what they said, give me the money and I will try to make it, very clearly and without doubt in their advertising, THEN, they wouldn't break the law. But they didn't, and, at the present moment, they broke the Fair ACt Law dozen of times along this project.
I understand that English is not your first language, but you're taking these laws much too literally. Unfortunately what you view as being unfair business practices is business as normal in North America. Oh, and once again, they made no promises. A crowd-funding campaign is NOT a charity, but it is NOT a Store either. It doesn't guarantee that the product is even POSSIBLE to make. This is stated quite clearly in the KS Terms of Service. There have been attempts to sue people, but the reason you don't see the FTC filing suits in thousands of cases a year is because it's NOT A GUARANTEE!!!!!!!!! It's an ESTIMATED DATE OF DELIVERY!!! Read the KS User TOS.
I'm not sure why you believe that Roberts is a "bad" developer. They aren't stealing any money from anybody else.
Stealing, is not what makes a developer bad. Stealing make him a bandit, to be put on jail.
Stealing: take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.
That's a dictionary definition. Not really indicative of what's happening here.
Elite: Dangerous got very similar crowd funding to SC, but the game was completely different. It was a retail game, so they were relying on backend retail sales to make up whatever was lost in development.
Roberts got the money to make a game. The funding is to make it. Not for profit business, except AFTER release. It's THEIR deal, by the way.
He is making the game. It's in the process of being made. That's been made quite clear. Understand that he has "raised" the additional money himself, not through KS. So he is, effectively investing $83 Million of his own money in the game. Thanks Chris!
Unless you can give some quotes from Roberts saying that he's intentionally trying to stifle his competition and be evil, then I'd have to disagree with you on principal, and you're not helping yourself or your cause by looking like a crazy person. Roberts and Braben were both supportive of each others projects, in fact.
So, do you think that for someone to be charged as breaking marketing and advertising laws, the person MUST to be get speaking that is intentionally breaking the law because is evil? You should just educate yourself about the law. There is no "intention" evaluated, when you break it or not. That's why its said that companies have the legal obligation of not doing deceptive marketing. And if Roberts don't know that after been owner of 3 earlier companies, well... if you want to see obvious about intention... the obvious is in his own resume. But again... "intention" means nothing when you break such law... repeatedly... and after ALERTED by many people about that (oh look, one more argument if you are so eagerly to find "intention").
No, but a jury must determine whether or not what they're doing is deceptive. It should also be known that there is PLENTY of legal precedence that shows that WITHOUT intent makes a huge difference. Take a look at murder versus manslaughter.
As far s people pledging to the game, they SHOULD understand the terms and risks associated with a crowd funding campaign. If they don't then that's on them. There is no "Guaranteed Release Date" field on a KS campaign. It's an estimated delivery date, and it's not a hard date. Also, I believe there was a time when that date had a limit (user couldn't go past 2 years or something), so that's another possibility. Either way, if you threw $20 at a KS campaign with complete ignorance, then you can't turn around now and say, "But I don't understand anything." Sorry, ignorance isn't an excuse for stupidity.
So, why in the complaint officially opened by FTC against a crowd-funding project, they actually put the delays as an argument? That alone, have not too much weight indeed. But that together with other flaws and repeated bait-and-switch made by the company from the beginning, and even later, build a case with no possibilities to CIG to hope to have any defense.
It's very well know that "estimate" in the software industry IS NOT a word... It's a PROCESS... and in 2015, every single developer of the world that studied the basics, know that while estimates can be wrong, there is a ball park that if it passed, you can easily classify as not an estimate at all, but a try to mislead the customer. And from that, you put in count that its not whatever person who is doing that, but a serious veteran of the industry. Again... no defense my friend. You can scream the dictionary meaning of the word how many times that you prefer... but in a court of law, with these arguments put in place, CIG has not a chance. Arguments that any half-brain with the minimum knowledge about these matters would bring.
"But I don't understand anything." Sorry, ignorance isn't an excuse for stupidity.
This is total valid for my argument above. Not for customers. See? Your own motto above, screwed Roberts defense.
While I think it's amusing that you believe that the FTC has any grounds in the case, it should be noted that Roberts could, TECHNICALLY, refund all of the KS backers at this point, say "Eff you" and be on his merry way, because he hasn't made any promises about any "estimated delivery date" through his own crowd funding. So even if that was the case, it doesn't serve any real purpose. $2 million is a mere drop in the bucket at this point.
Keep fighting the good fight,though. It's quite obvious that the FTC has a strong case based on your legal expertise, supported by your strong, fact-based arguments.
As a long time MMOer, I just dont see it. We know the time it takes to make a tripple A MMO, they know it. Sit back and wait like everyone does for the game they want. Im waiting for EQN win or fail. I know I am in for a long ride because I have done this before and I will do it again till I am old and I forget where I am and why I am doing it.
Wishes and hopes were not the point of this discussion for what you asked questions and I answered them. "What you don't see" has nothing to do with what I confirmed with proof. That CIG is easy cake for any rich backer too much disappointed that don't care to spend money instead on ships, in a lawsuit, or in a group of backers going to the class law suit, or for FTC.
I acknowledge that, in order to such thing happening, they will have to under-deliver or never delivering.
In one way or another, it will happen. If you look to the trend (now I am giving an opinion, not a fact as before), they are not going to deliver all the stretch goals beyond the 6 million mark in the day ONE! And the trend is that they have less and less support as more the time passes, meaning, that to recover the support, only if they did not under-delivered and from there, were FAST to deliver additional stuff, and the promises missing.
That obviously won't happen, because, by design, they tied themselves to give a lot of focus to tiny little detais to every single asset of the game, as well as the promised mechanics involved. So, they never will be faster enough, like competitors can.
Besides, with all this "deep mechanics" to be implemented, the scale of bugs will be ridiculously higher that probably any other game released ever.
The history of this project already shown that the "magic tech" or the "magic skill" of Roberts and its associates does not exist. They are far from that. Today, if the matter of releasing a much more simpler game (like Descent Underground or Starfighter Inc.) from the hands of Roberts, most of people who backed him originally wouldn't back him now. They barely have a maturity, skill or anything special to say to anyone that they are capable to task. More like the contrary. They seem less capable that a lot of other indie teams (which makes their situation worst in terms of reliability).
So, people are still dreaming that things will happen, or the tide will turn, ignoring that after 4 years that this project started in the hands of Roberts, they have only those tech demos that proves absolutely nothing.
People claim that the tech demo worked to "prove" their capabilities, but these are in general... fans statements. Obviously making all those fancy graphics and fancy details for a battle of 4x4 or less, and still bugged, is not really difficult to do, mainly considering the tech that they based on. But that is what that tech is made for... to release fast, high level of graphical fidelity, games of minor scale. Things start to complicate when is to expand all that to the game that he promised to make. So, it's not that difficult to expect that they never will manage to deliver, because, like Derek Smart, they don't have what it takes, not the right engine, and not the right team, and no matter how they try to delude people... in the real world... in practice.... they also do not have the time.
So, with the most obvious catastrophic result and easily predictable of all times int he game industry, and all things considered, including in how they keep milking people with values never heard before for micro-transactions in the same industry, AFTER fully-funded, the possibility that they will escape of lawsuits that are easy cake and with total capacity of disrupt totally their business, in my opinion (considering that in the recent couple of years, the tide turned and more customer lawsuits are starting to be opened from gamers against companies and FTC started to act in crowd-funding NOW - and we are now going forward to 2018/20) is ZERO.
They still can manage to make some deviations and strategies to escape of PAYING the penalties. But in any case, the business would end closed and burned to the ground in the first news about a lawsuit. (remember, they are not an established monster with decades on the market like EA or Ubisoft and so on, that still can survive of a dozen of lawsuits, one against CIG is already enough, mainly after all the things that we saw happening along this road and more to happen next).
Notice that here you have a strong argument to understand, why they do not care, and why keep in the same approach of ignoring the issue or not improving their ways.
The big bosses there (Roberts and his lawyer that ends to be his major associate) probably understand that in the "worst case", their image will be ruined by a bad game anyway and they could try other shady means to escape with the money in hands. Hollywood folks know the drill.
So, they could even use as excuse for the colapse (to let the few backers still supporting them thinking on them like heroes) an argument like:
"Look guys, the evil corportations with fear of our success made this against us, they are powerful you know. We tried. But they won. Sorry guys, but we have to close the doors due that, we are still planning to finish that mod tools that we promised, "soon" so you keep the flame against the evil corporations", and those fans still will applaud them while they go for a nice retirement in their mansions in tropical or asian countries.
As a long time MMOer, I just dont see it. We know the time it takes to make a tripple A MMO, they know it. Sit back and wait like everyone does for the game they want. Im waiting for EQN win or fail. I know I am in for a long ride because I have done this before and I will do it again till I am old and I forget where I am and why I am doing it.
Wishes and hopes were not the point of this discussion for what you asked questions and I answered them. "What you don't see" has nothing to do with what I confirmed with proof. That CIG is easy cake for any rich backer too much disappointed that don't care to spend money instead on ships, in a lawsuit, or in a group of backers going to the class law suit, or for FTC.
I acknowledge that, in order to such thing happening, they will have to under-deliver or never delivering.
In one way or another, it will happen. If you look to the trend (now I am giving an opinion, not a fact as before), they are not going to deliver all the stretch goals beyond the 6 million mark in the day ONE! And the trend is that they have less and less support as more the time passes, meaning, that to recover the support, only if they did not under-delivered and from there, were FAST to deliver additional stuff, and the promises missing.
That obviously won't happen, because, by design, they tied themselves to give a lot of focus to tiny little detais to every single asset of the game, as well as the promised mechanics involved. So, they never will be faster enough, like competitors can.
Besides, with all this "deep mechanics" to be implemented, the scale of bugs will be ridiculously higher that probably any other game released ever.
The history of this project already shown that the "magic tech" or the "magic skill" of Roberts and its associates does not exist. They are far from that. Today, if the matter of releasing a much more simpler game (like Descent Underground or Starfighter Inc.) from the hands of Roberts, most of people who backed him originally wouldn't back him now. They barely have a maturity, skill or anything special to say to anyone that they are capable to task. More like the contrary. They seem less capable that a lot of other indie teams (which makes their situation worst in terms of reliability).
So, people are still dreaming that things will happen, or the tide will turn, ignoring that after 4 years that this project started in the hands of Roberts, they have only those tech demos that proves absolutely nothing.
People claim that the tech demo worked to "prove" their capabilities, but these are in general... fans statements. Obviously making all those fancy graphics and fancy details for a battle of 4x4 or less, and still bugged, is not really difficult to do, mainly considering the tech that they based on. But that is what that tech is made for... to release fast, high level of graphical fidelity, games of minor scale. Things start to complicate when is to expand all that to the game that he promised to make. So, it's not that difficult to expect that they never will manage to deliver, because, like Derek Smart, they don't have what it takes, not the right engine, and not the right team, and no matter how they try to delude people... in the real world... in practice.... they also do not have the time.
So, with the most obvious catastrophic result and easily predictable of all times int he game industry, and all things considered, including in how they keep milking people with values never heard before for micro-transactions in the same industry, AFTER fully-funded, the possibility that they will escape of lawsuits that are easy cake and with total capacity of disrupt totally their business, in my opinion (considering that in the recent couple of years, the tide turned and more customer lawsuits are starting to be opened from gamers against companies and FTC started to act in crowd-funding NOW - and we are now going forward to 2018/20) is ZERO.
They still can manage to make some deviations and strategies to escape of PAYING the penalties. But in any case, the business would end closed and burned to the ground in the first news about a lawsuit. (remember, they are not an established monster with decades on the market like EA or Ubisoft and so on, that still can survive of a dozen of lawsuits, one against CIG is already enough, mainly after all the things that we saw happening along this road and more to happen next).
Notice that here you have a strong argument to understand, why they do not care, and why keep in the same approach of ignoring the issue or not improving their ways.
The big bosses there (Roberts and his lawyer that ends to be his major associate) probably understand that in the "worst case", their image will be ruined by a bad game anyway and they could try other shady means to escape with the money in hands. Hollywood folks know the drill.
So, they could even use as excuse for the colapse (to let the few backers still supporting them thinking on them like heroes) an argument like:
"Look guys, the evil corportations with fear of our success made this against us, they are powerful you know. We tried. But they won. Sorry guys, but we have to close the doors due that, we are still planning to finish that mod tools that we promised, "soon" so you keep the flame against the evil corporations", and those fans still will applaud them while they go for a nice retirement in their mansions in tropical or asian countries.
This is your first post I didnt even bother reading and its for one reason. Many times you have been called out on showing where they said a time line of will be out in 2 years and that date is past. I dont see them doing so but you say they did but cant show us where? /thread till you show proof.
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other KS campaigns (example: Frontier DEv - Elite Dangerous), usually are safe from false ad claims, because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays - again, customers never can be assumed as experts. But developers making the pitch, yes... they are. How possibly they couldn't know that the game is impossible to make in 2 years. When the leader of the gods make such statement, people would expect, AS EXPECTED, many people, that they were already advanced in the development and/or found some new innovative tech to deliver faster.
(remember that many KS are exactly about innonative tech)
That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
Delays and a failure to award are two different things, if it weren't most software companies would be held accountable to false advertising every-time they fail to meet on a previously stated pre-order date. Unexpected delays are common place in the software industry, so much so, that if I'm not mistaken, it's accounted for in law. It's been a while since I read up or had much interest in the subject.
For the record, I'm no SC backer or a backer of any other KS project, I'm not arguing from any position on this. I'm just pointing out your argument of legality, failure to meet.. etc in this debate hasn't been exactly concrete or without fault.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other KS campaigns (example: Frontier DEv - Elite Dangerous), usually are safe from false ad claims, because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays - again, customers never can be assumed as experts. But developers making the pitch, yes... they are. How possibly they couldn't know that the game is impossible to make in 2 years. When the leader of the gods make such statement, people would expect, AS EXPECTED, many people, that they were already advanced in the development and/or found some new innovative tech to deliver faster.
(remember that many KS are exactly about innonative tech)
That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
They made no promises, did they? I don't remember these promises. Feel free to point them out on the campaign though.
As far as Elite: Dangerous, though, they actually said there would be a single player mode, which never materialized. So that was actually something that was mentioned which they never physically delivered. You seem ok with that for some reason, though, since you continually mention them.
No. I am not ok that they advertised and did not accomplish that promise. Open complaints on FTC against them if you think that they mislead you.
To what promise are you referring to? What do you mean by "they made no promises". Are you a follower. You know. What kind of game are you playing here now? Trolling me or something?
Ok... here's a list of promises that they did not accomplish... again... (how many times I will have to show, to these people still claim that "they don't see"?)
"Our intention has always been to make Roberts Space Industries YOUR site. It's not a public advertisement for the game; it's a private community for those who are making the game happen. We want your input on what we're doing and we want to share our plans with you; the occasional passer-by doesn't concern us. The plan was initially to immediately switch on a wall that would allow only you, our backers, to access features like the Comm-Link and the Spectrum Dispatches."
Never happened. Everyone can access everything there.
"We will also be launching new sections which have been in the works for some time: the Galactapedia"
This, just show how they usually lie, when necessary, in their reports. Notice that this section never came out and was even referred as not really in the works after so many years, just now, by the big post of Mr. Lesnick. It was an obvious bait-and-switch after the end of campaign, since they associated that "would close the doors" and then todl about "new sections", implying to laters that they should rush... last chance to pledge, otherwise, it will be just for our backers, not "public ad for the game".
"What about pledges? Good news: those of you who got in on the ground floor are covered. Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.) "
This is just the first instance... of many additional ones later, that they told that LTI would never come back. Bait-and-switch, again.
....
Let's move then to 5 months later of this post. To APRIL 26TH 2013.
"To celebrate the release of the Aurora, we’ve put together a special AURORA SALE WEEK promotion! We’re making a special edition version of the Aurora, the Aurora LX, available for a limited time. The LX will be available in the finished game, but this will be your only chance to pledge for it through the site "
We know that it was not the only chance, right?
Starter Package ($35) We know that a lot of players aren’t interested in the single player Squadron 42 game and they just want to join their friends in space as soon as possible. As a result, we’ve created a lower priced package that allows you to get into Star Citizen without Squadron 42! The Starter package includes Star Citizen with an Aurora LX, lifetime insurance and Alpha, Beta andRSI site access. This is the lowest price Star Citizen will be available before the game ships. The best way to be sure you can take off when testing begins!
Why the rush CIG? Well... we know that it was not the lowest price that they offered.
Advanced Starter Package ($45) Includes Star Citizen and Squadron 42 with an Aurora LX, lifetime insurance and Alpha, Beta and RSI site access. Your last chance to get it all for a low price!
"last chance for a low price" right? Oh wait.
WHY BACK NOW?
What a huge capital letters they put in this title right?
"
Prices are going up! We will be increasing prices when the new site launches, so this is the cheapest you will ever be able to pledge for Star Citizen!
"
Oh wait... Maybe its just my imagination but I am pretty sure that I saw a cheapest package going later, after the new site launched.
"
The new site is coming! The all-new Roberts Space Industries website will feature content exclusive for pledgers, including full access to post to the forums and to read sections like Engineering and the Galactapedia.
"
Wait? Exclusive? I am pretty sure that a non-CIG backer can go there and both read all the content and even not backing any dime, having full access to post in their forums.
5 months later the Galactapedia that was about to release, as implied 5 months earlier, is not ready yet? What is this? CryEngine is not holding that too? Oh wait... how many years later and that Galactpedia that they had been working for some time on Nov/2012 and still was not there?
LoL
"
Alpha slots are limited! We plan to begin testing Star Citizen’s space combat with the community later this year and the number of slots we can support are closing. We can support an estimated 50,000 more testers; after that, no more packages with alpha access will be sold! Pledge now so you can be one of the first into space.
"
Ok! I want to be a alpha tester. I should rush and buy this package following that big huge capital letters of the title stating "why I should pledge NOW", after all... look to this... Alpha slots ARE LIMITED!!! (I love the exclamations that they put). Just more 50k ok? Rush. Pledge NOW. Wait? Am I dreaming or I am able to play the alpha TODAY?
STRETCH GOAL: If we can make it to $9 million in total pledges before the new site launches, we’ll go ahead and put a cool Roberts Space Industries Class II space suit in your closet, colored to match the new site! What’s more, every current pledger will get Lifetime Insurance! This will be your last opportunity to get LTI before the game launches.
"
Oh! Look... those fools who believed that in Dec/2012 was the last time that LTI could be get.
FROM THE DESK OF CHAIRMAN CHRIS ROBERTS
WOW! Another big title! That must to be important... Let me see:
"According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back."
Wait? What? So... all that talking of achieving marks in the counter during the funding campaign (and giving prizes to people), as well as all the interviews ("oh we have 50k backers", when the space sim fans = 50k) was JUST clear as clean water, FALSE ADVERTISING? And now Mr. Roberts you can and say in the face of people that all that is just bs... and the game has not the popularity that you want people believe that it has! wow!
"Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. "
Wait? What are you saying? That people buy multiple accounts? But all your fans have been saying again and again that "this is a conspiracy" when someone raises this info again. I guess that they keep just having wipes in their memories in a daily basis then.
"Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen."
Which sounds the trend of what happened later too... People signing (or fanboys creating multiple accounts to vote in polls, raise the counter for promotion?) and not pledging.
Well... Multiple accounts aside, which is obviously another subject, I think that I had brought enough bait-and-switch situations and promises broken.
Again, CIG pitch does not promise you just the game and rewards, or website sections (which they failed to deliver in the period of the time promised), but also services and exclusivities, some of then, already broken... it's not "under devlepoment", they let the site opened as a PR tool that told that wouldn't be, they kept selling LTI, they offered cheap packages later, and so on.
Any other question? Or you don't see yet? In any case, that will be a case of everyone can see, but a fan+backer of Star Citizen.
I lost the key to the lock of my wallet and I have not been able to buy 1 single ship, oh well, still trying to find a good locksmith who can fix that lock, but is a very old lock, so it may take 3 years before I can access my CCs.
Delays and a failure to award are two different things, if it weren't most software companies would be held accountable to false advertising every-time they fail to meet on a previously stated pre-order date.
LoL.
But they are!
ROFL!
Go pursuit your rights my friend. They are. You don't see too much of this kind of thing happening against game development companies, because GAMERS does not have the habit that customers of other kinds of products/services usually have. And I have to tell you...
Many people actually pursuit and make the companies pay...
But you know what happens in the majority of the cases? Deals. Companies go there and pay the guy to he shuts his mouth.
Still, the lawsuit remains there. In general, not something that press is used to report too. Mainly when is related to games of high attention from well-know companies.
But from a company doing something "different" stuff, using kickstarter and asking along the road 2500 dollasr in exchange of pixels... I wouldn't have so much hope that press wouldn't see that happening or even the backers involved, wouldn't make sure that they spread the info, before CIG thought about a deal.
Everything is delayed and they have no real information to give, but everything's still all right because the devs say so and give us a hell lot of vague and unverifiable reasons.
No kiddin'.
I especially like how he said as much:
"The ensuing argument for this one, of course, is that we're telling but not showing. To that, I have to say... that's correct."
Unexpected delays are common place in the software industry
About this. CIG made another mistake.
They made sure to put in pretty and fancy words both in the delays of the DFM and the FPS module (which visibly by their own explanations CAUSED a delay in the game as a whole), that it's not really something that you could classify as
"UNEXPECTED"
Instead, they associated as a Marketing decision, of not putting out because "people are looking to them and willing them to fail".
Wait?
Who cares CIG with outsiders. You are building and pitching something that you told, would be exclusive for backers and not a public PR tool worried with outsiders... YOUR WORDS...
And then you refuse to deliver stuff to your backers, "because people are out there looking to you and willing for your fail"
LoL
Good luck to convince a judge that a Marketing Decision, after the promises made earlier, is something "unexpected" that prevented the release of what they did, so far.
And how many times they told that? I could fill a HD with video/interviews about how they are worried with the view of outsiders, etc. instead worried on releasing what was promised to their backers.
This IS Marketing... Worried on selling more copies, instead worrying to deliver what was promised to the backers. That was not the deal advertised. This is NOT responsibility of backers... to make sure that CIG will sell or not, or have reserves in their account.
They even hold money to keep reserves, when they promised to accelerate the release with the money. And even threatened people: "Stopping the money, things will come, but "not in the level that we are doing""... but they already promised the ultimate level of game from the day one, so what a hell they are talking about ?
This is all obvious and continuous bait-and-switch that is basically in their bloods. They won't change. Wait for another week, another month, and we still will see they breaking promises, they contradicting themselves many times, and the reason is all the same... marketing... people willing to they fail... ignoring that their deal was to deliver into their promises, serivces, exclusivities, and NOT require from all backers that they have to work for their marketing team, directly, or indirectly having to wait more, because "they are worried with their future profit".
"The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. "
Keep fighting the good fight,though. It's quite obvious that the FTC has a strong case based on your legal expertise, supported by your strong, fact-based arguments.
I sent your post to a friend who works there. Just for his entertainment.
Stating that there is "precedence" in "murder" cases about intention and then "intention" is now considered in the Fair Act, was indeed... how can I say politely? Funny.
And saying that FTC wouldn't go to a case like this, when they are actually going to cases against crowd-funding of a couple thousands dollars recently (because its starting to raise the number of broken promises in these campaigns) was funny.
And the part of the "thank you CR to put YOUR 85 million dollars in the game" (pretty sure that not a single employee of that company have this weird mindset)
ROFL
You know nothing Jon Snow... not even the deal that you made with CIG you know. You know the bs that fanboys spread around to try to make people less entitled and criticize less their heroes... that's what you know. Nothing, except bs. And worst... Refuse to learn. That's what is even more ridiculous about these fanatics (no offense intended... fanatics is a mere group of fans... your passion blinds you... that happens with everyone in some point of our lives).
Unexpected delays are common place in the software industry
About this. CIG made another mistake.
They made sure to put in pretty and fancy words both in the delays of the DFM and the FPS module (which visibly by their own explanations CAUSED a delay in the game as a whole), that it's not really something that you could classify as
"UNEXPECTED"
Instead, they associated as a Marketing decision, of not putting out because "people are looking to them and willing them to fail".
Wait?
Who cares CIG with outsiders. You are building and pitching something that you told, would be exclusive for backers and not a public PR tool worried with outsiders... YOUR WORDS...
And then you refuse to deliver stuff to your backers, "because people are out there looking to you and willing for your fail"
LoL
Good luck to convince a judge that a Marketing Decision, after the promises made earlier, is something "unexpected" that prevented the release of what they did, so far.
And how many times they told that? I could fill a HD with video/interviews about how they are worried with the view of outsiders, etc. instead worried on releasing what was promised to their backers.
This IS Marketing... Worried on selling more copies, instead worrying to deliver what was promised to the backers. That was not the deal advertised. This is NOT responsibility of backers... to make sure that CIG will sell or not, or have reserves in their account.
They even hold money to keep reserves, when they promised to accelerate the release with the money. And even threatened people: "Stopping the money, things will come, but "not in the level that we are doing""... but they already promised the ultimate level of game from the day one, so what a hell they are talking about ?
This is all obvious and continuous bait-and-switch that is basically in their bloods. They won't change. Wait for another week, another month, and we still will see they breaking promises, they contradicting themselves many times, and the reason is all the same... marketing... people willing to they fail... ignoring that their deal was to deliver into their promises, serivces, exclusivities, and NOT require from all backers that they have to work for their marketing team, directly, or indirectly having to wait more, because "they are worried with their future profit".
What's becoming apparent is I am talking to someone who has an agenda, that's usually when I bow out, it's obvious there's no reasoning with you to be had here... You're just going off on tangents that are all over the place. Good luck with that mind you've made up, I'll wait for the final results.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Keep fighting the good fight,though. It's quite obvious that the FTC has a strong case based on your legal expertise, supported by your strong, fact-based arguments.
I sent your post to a friend who works there. Just for his entertainment.
Stating that there is "precedence" in "murder" cases about intention and then "intention" is now considered in the Fair Act, was indeed... how can I say politely? Funny.
And saying that FTC wouldn't go to a case like this, when they are actually going to cases against crowd-funding of a couple thousands dollars recently (because its starting to raise the number of broken promises in these campaigns) was funny.
And the part of the "thank you CR to put YOUR 85 million dollars in the game" (pretty sure that not a single employee of that company have this weird mindset)
ROFL
You know nothing Jon Snow... not even the deal that you made with CIG you know. You know the bs that fanboys spread around to try to make people less entitled and criticize less their heroes... that's what you know. Nothing, except bs. And worst... Refuse to learn. That's what is even more ridiculous about these fanatics (no offense intended... fanatics is a mere group of fans... your passion blinds you... that happens with everyone in some point of our lives).
Looks at post history:
Dude you're pretty much at the point of being scary.
None of this changes the fact that the doomsayers are simply showing how little they know about game dev and how shallow their views and opinions are on it.
Seriously kids, take your zoloft, calm down and wait until it is gold to start flipping out like 10y old kids fresh off a bad call of duty match.
So, maybe they had a chance, because by the time that they release we, the 10 year old kids will have 60 or 70 years old and then we will be "mature" enough to understand about game dev?
(I still wonder how I produced and released my games without knowing game dev by the way... guess was a lucky kid).
Hey Derek do you include Alganon in your list of games? I haven't seen someone on the site in a long time with such an agenda boner who just wants to see it all burn.
So what is your list of games? Are you going to come clean with that or not? Taking pot shots at another dev, citing your credentials, and then not backing them up shows that your integrity sits in the toilet.
What does your FTC friend say about that? How can I put this nicely. Funny?
Wow.... The shoe fits
If this is accurate, my previous statement rings more true then ever
Keep fighting the good fight,though. It's quite obvious that the FTC has a strong case based on your legal expertise, supported by your strong, fact-based arguments.
I sent your post to a friend who works there. Just for his entertainment.
Stating that there is "precedence" in "murder" cases about intention and then "intention" is now considered in the Fair Act, was indeed... how can I say politely? Funny.
And saying that FTC wouldn't go to a case like this, when they are actually going to cases against crowd-funding of a couple thousands dollars recently (because its starting to raise the number of broken promises in these campaigns) was funny.
And the part of the "thank you CR to put YOUR 85 million dollars in the game" (pretty sure that not a single employee of that company have this weird mindset)
ROFL
You know nothing Jon Snow... not even the deal that you made with CIG you know. You know the bs that fanboys spread around to try to make people less entitled and criticize less their heroes... that's what you know. Nothing, except bs. And worst... Refuse to learn. That's what is even more ridiculous about these fanatics (no offense intended... fanatics is a mere group of fans... your passion blinds you... that happens with everyone in some point of our lives).
I still wonder why CIG didn't take your offer to help back in 2013, and it makes me sad Derek.
You could have brought your incredible talent to the project. I always enjoyed reading your passionate posts and game suggestions before you got banned and all your posts archived under jcrg99.old, especially the one where you outlined your experience in the gaming industry
(just quoting you below so you know what I'm talking about mate)
"with more than 10 years of experience in the Software Development Area and additional 10 years in Business, working since from the small to the major companies of the world:" etc. continued here ->
so you got the credentials, the PhD in computer science, the world success blockbuster titles, why CIG never hired you is beyond my understanding. You worked for decades on EXACTLY this genre and I bet with your incredible expertise and fantastic games like Universal Combat and Line of Defense, Star Citizen would already be finished.
Only you can save StarCitizen now, you are our last hope, our last line of defense.
Since they ignored your help offer you literally have no other choice to get your friend at the FTC on them, good luck to both of you.
Comments
I dont have a congress man... like you I'm Canadian.
Quite the expert... You like to talk a lot of bullshit just like a lawyer, are you one?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
They'd have to first be found guilty of that, they'd also have to first never make good on their pledge honors. That's where your argument falls flat, no matter how much legalese you throw into this debate. You also conveniently left out the prime context I was arguing from, as well as against.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
mmorpg junkie since 1999
No where in all that do I see a promise of the game coming out in 2 years. Where are you getting that?
I am going to repeat that again. They failed to deliver services and promises that were part honoring the pledge, AS WELL AS did not deliver the rewards according with their statements and promises.
So, the only flat argument here is yours at the moment. You are ignoring what is the Star Citizen pitch and trying to give as excuses, based in whatever other generic kickstarter pitch.
Again, other KS campaigns (example: Frontier DEv - Elite Dangerous), usually are safe from false ad claims, because THEY make very clear in the advertising the issues that could cause delays - again, customers never can be assumed as experts. But developers making the pitch, yes... they are. How possibly they couldn't know that the game is impossible to make in 2 years. When the leader of the gods make such statement, people would expect, AS EXPECTED, many people, that they were already advanced in the development and/or found some new innovative tech to deliver faster.
(remember that many KS are exactly about innonative tech)
That was not the case of CIG who put that "if more money, it would come earlier than, actually, is coming". They just do not accomplish with their advertised promised... but they made the CONTRARY, which makes their situation impossible (in a matter of trying to defend their case).
I did not "conveniently left out" anything. I just cut for the sake of not becoming a big wall of discussion in each post.
As a long time MMOer, I just dont see it. We know the time it takes to make a tripple A MMO, they know it. Sit back and wait like everyone does for the game they want. Im waiting for EQN win or fail. I know I am in for a long ride because I have done this before and I will do it again till I am old and I forget where I am and why I am doing it.
They made no promises, did they? I don't remember these promises. Feel free to point them out on the campaign though.
As far as Elite: Dangerous, though, they actually said there would be a single player mode, which never materialized. So that was actually something that was mentioned which they never physically delivered. You seem ok with that for some reason, though, since you continually mention them.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
While I think it's amusing that you believe that the FTC has any grounds in the case, it should be noted that Roberts could, TECHNICALLY, refund all of the KS backers at this point, say "Eff you" and be on his merry way, because he hasn't made any promises about any "estimated delivery date" through his own crowd funding. So even if that was the case, it doesn't serve any real purpose. $2 million is a mere drop in the bucket at this point.
Keep fighting the good fight,though. It's quite obvious that the FTC has a strong case based on your legal expertise, supported by your strong, fact-based arguments.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Wishes and hopes were not the point of this discussion for what you asked questions and I answered them. "What you don't see" has nothing to do with what I confirmed with proof. That CIG is easy cake for any rich backer too much disappointed that don't care to spend money instead on ships, in a lawsuit, or in a group of backers going to the class law suit, or for FTC.
I acknowledge that, in order to such thing happening, they will have to under-deliver or never delivering.
In one way or another, it will happen. If you look to the trend (now I am giving an opinion, not a fact as before), they are not going to deliver all the stretch goals beyond the 6 million mark in the day ONE! And the trend is that they have less and less support as more the time passes, meaning, that to recover the support, only if they did not under-delivered and from there, were FAST to deliver additional stuff, and the promises missing.
That obviously won't happen, because, by design, they tied themselves to give a lot of focus to tiny little detais to every single asset of the game, as well as the promised mechanics involved. So, they never will be faster enough, like competitors can.
Besides, with all this "deep mechanics" to be implemented, the scale of bugs will be ridiculously higher that probably any other game released ever.
The history of this project already shown that the "magic tech" or the "magic skill" of Roberts and its associates does not exist. They are far from that. Today, if the matter of releasing a much more simpler game (like Descent Underground or Starfighter Inc.) from the hands of Roberts, most of people who backed him originally wouldn't back him now. They barely have a maturity, skill or anything special to say to anyone that they are capable to task. More like the contrary. They seem less capable that a lot of other indie teams (which makes their situation worst in terms of reliability).
So, people are still dreaming that things will happen, or the tide will turn, ignoring that after 4 years that this project started in the hands of Roberts, they have only those tech demos that proves absolutely nothing.
People claim that the tech demo worked to "prove" their capabilities, but these are in general... fans statements. Obviously making all those fancy graphics and fancy details for a battle of 4x4 or less, and still bugged, is not really difficult to do, mainly considering the tech that they based on. But that is what that tech is made for... to release fast, high level of graphical fidelity, games of minor scale. Things start to complicate when is to expand all that to the game that he promised to make. So, it's not that difficult to expect that they never will manage to deliver, because, like Derek Smart, they don't have what it takes, not the right engine, and not the right team, and no matter how they try to delude people... in the real world... in practice.... they also do not have the time.
So, with the most obvious catastrophic result and easily predictable of all times int he game industry, and all things considered, including in how they keep milking people with values never heard before for micro-transactions in the same industry, AFTER fully-funded, the possibility that they will escape of lawsuits that are easy cake and with total capacity of disrupt totally their business, in my opinion (considering that in the recent couple of years, the tide turned and more customer lawsuits are starting to be opened from gamers against companies and FTC started to act in crowd-funding NOW - and we are now going forward to 2018/20) is ZERO.
They still can manage to make some deviations and strategies to escape of PAYING the penalties. But in any case, the business would end closed and burned to the ground in the first news about a lawsuit. (remember, they are not an established monster with decades on the market like EA or Ubisoft and so on, that still can survive of a dozen of lawsuits, one against CIG is already enough, mainly after all the things that we saw happening along this road and more to happen next).
Notice that here you have a strong argument to understand, why they do not care, and why keep in the same approach of ignoring the issue or not improving their ways.
The big bosses there (Roberts and his lawyer that ends to be his major associate) probably understand that in the "worst case", their image will be ruined by a bad game anyway and they could try other shady means to escape with the money in hands. Hollywood folks know the drill.
So, they could even use as excuse for the colapse (to let the few backers still supporting them thinking on them like heroes) an argument like:
"Look guys, the evil corportations with fear of our success made this against us, they are powerful you know. We tried. But they won. Sorry guys, but we have to close the doors due that, we are still planning to finish that mod tools that we promised, "soon" so you keep the flame against the evil corporations", and those fans still will applaud them while they go for a nice retirement in their mansions in tropical or asian countries.
This is your first post I didnt even bother reading and its for one reason. Many times you have been called out on showing where they said a time line of will be out in 2 years and that date is past. I dont see them doing so but you say they did but cant show us where? /thread till you show proof.
Delays and a failure to award are two different things, if it weren't most software companies would be held accountable to false advertising every-time they fail to meet on a previously stated pre-order date. Unexpected delays are common place in the software industry, so much so, that if I'm not mistaken, it's accounted for in law. It's been a while since I read up or had much interest in the subject.
For the record, I'm no SC backer or a backer of any other KS project, I'm not arguing from any position on this. I'm just pointing out your argument of legality, failure to meet.. etc in this debate hasn't been exactly concrete or without fault.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No. I am not ok that they advertised and did not accomplish that promise. Open complaints on FTC against them if you think that they mislead you.
To what promise are you referring to? What do you mean by "they made no promises". Are you a follower. You know. What kind of game are you playing here now? Trolling me or something?
Ok... here's a list of promises that they did not accomplish... again... (how many times I will have to show, to these people still claim that "they don't see"?)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/352301
"Our intention has always been to make Roberts Space Industries YOUR site. It's not a public advertisement for the game; it's a private community for those who are making the game happen. We want your input on what we're doing and we want to share our plans with you; the occasional passer-by doesn't concern us. The plan was initially to immediately switch on a wall that would allow only you, our backers, to access features like the Comm-Link and the Spectrum Dispatches."
Never happened. Everyone can access everything there.
"We will also be launching new sections which have been in the works for some time: the Galactapedia"
This, just show how they usually lie, when necessary, in their reports. Notice that this section never came out and was even referred as not really in the works after so many years, just now, by the big post of Mr. Lesnick. It was an obvious bait-and-switch after the end of campaign, since they associated that "would close the doors" and then todl about "new sections", implying to laters that they should rush... last chance to pledge, otherwise, it will be just for our backers, not "public ad for the game".
"What about pledges? Good news: those of you who got in on the ground floor are covered. Your ships have lifetime insurance policies and for the next year you will have the ability to purchase further tiers or upgrade existing ones at the initial prices. That's not true of everyone else: if you want to back Star Citizen and participate in this amazing community, you still can. but it's going to cost you a little extra as of now, and you aren't going to have as many extras (no lifetime insurance, for example.) "
This is just the first instance... of many additional ones later, that they told that LTI would never come back. Bait-and-switch, again.
....
Let's move then to 5 months later of this post. To APRIL 26TH 2013.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12975-The-Aurora-Revealed
"To celebrate the release of the Aurora, we’ve put together a special AURORA SALE WEEK promotion! We’re making a special edition version of the Aurora, the Aurora LX, available for a limited time. The LX will be available in the finished game, but this will be your only chance to pledge for it through the site "
We know that it was not the only chance, right?
Why the rush CIG? Well... we know that it was not the lowest price that they offered.
"last chance for a low price" right? Oh wait.
WHY BACK NOW?
What a huge capital letters they put in this title right?
"
"
Oh wait... Maybe its just my imagination but I am pretty sure that I saw a cheapest package going later, after the new site launched.
"
"
Wait? Exclusive? I am pretty sure that a non-CIG backer can go there and both read all the content and even not backing any dime, having full access to post in their forums.
5 months later the Galactapedia that was about to release, as implied 5 months earlier, is not ready yet? What is this? CryEngine is not holding that too? Oh wait... how many years later and that Galactpedia that they had been working for some time on Nov/2012 and still was not there?
LoL
"
"
Ok! I want to be a alpha tester. I should rush and buy this package following that big huge capital letters of the title stating "why I should pledge NOW", after all... look to this... Alpha slots ARE LIMITED!!! (I love the exclamations that they put). Just more 50k ok? Rush. Pledge NOW. Wait? Am I dreaming or I am able to play the alpha TODAY?
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Module-Passes/Arena-Commander
"
"
Oh! Look... those fools who believed that in Dec/2012 was the last time that LTI could be get.
FROM THE DESK OF CHAIRMAN CHRIS ROBERTS
WOW! Another big title! That must to be important... Let me see:
"According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back."
Wait? What? So... all that talking of achieving marks in the counter during the funding campaign (and giving prizes to people), as well as all the interviews ("oh we have 50k backers", when the space sim fans = 50k) was JUST clear as clean water, FALSE ADVERTISING? And now Mr. Roberts you can and say in the face of people that all that is just bs... and the game has not the popularity that you want people believe that it has! wow!
"Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. "
Wait? What are you saying? That people buy multiple accounts? But all your fans have been saying again and again that "this is a conspiracy" when someone raises this info again. I guess that they keep just having wipes in their memories in a daily basis then.
"Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen."
Which sounds the trend of what happened later too... People signing (or fanboys creating multiple accounts to vote in polls, raise the counter for promotion?) and not pledging.
Well... Multiple accounts aside, which is obviously another subject, I think that I had brought enough bait-and-switch situations and promises broken.
Again, CIG pitch does not promise you just the game and rewards, or website sections (which they failed to deliver in the period of the time promised), but also services and exclusivities, some of then, already broken... it's not "under devlepoment", they let the site opened as a PR tool that told that wouldn't be, they kept selling LTI, they offered cheap packages later, and so on.
Any other question? Or you don't see yet? In any case, that will be a case of everyone can see, but a fan+backer of Star Citizen.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
LoL.
But they are!
ROFL!
Go pursuit your rights my friend. They are. You don't see too much of this kind of thing happening against game development companies, because GAMERS does not have the habit that customers of other kinds of products/services usually have. And I have to tell you...
Many people actually pursuit and make the companies pay...
But you know what happens in the majority of the cases? Deals. Companies go there and pay the guy to he shuts his mouth.
Still, the lawsuit remains there. In general, not something that press is used to report too. Mainly when is related to games of high attention from well-know companies.
But from a company doing something "different" stuff, using kickstarter and asking along the road 2500 dollasr in exchange of pixels... I wouldn't have so much hope that press wouldn't see that happening or even the backers involved, wouldn't make sure that they spread the info, before CIG thought about a deal.
No kiddin'.
I especially like how he said as much:
"The ensuing argument for this one, of course, is that we're telling but not showing. To that, I have to say... that's correct."
About this. CIG made another mistake.
They made sure to put in pretty and fancy words both in the delays of the DFM and the FPS module (which visibly by their own explanations CAUSED a delay in the game as a whole), that it's not really something that you could classify as
"UNEXPECTED"
Instead, they associated as a Marketing decision, of not putting out because "people are looking to them and willing them to fail".
Wait?
Who cares CIG with outsiders. You are building and pitching something that you told, would be exclusive for backers and not a public PR tool worried with outsiders... YOUR WORDS...
And then you refuse to deliver stuff to your backers, "because people are out there looking to you and willing for your fail"
LoL
Good luck to convince a judge that a Marketing Decision, after the promises made earlier, is something "unexpected" that prevented the release of what they did, so far.
And how many times they told that? I could fill a HD with video/interviews about how they are worried with the view of outsiders, etc. instead worried on releasing what was promised to their backers.
This IS Marketing... Worried on selling more copies, instead worrying to deliver what was promised to the backers. That was not the deal advertised. This is NOT responsibility of backers... to make sure that CIG will sell or not, or have reserves in their account.
They even hold money to keep reserves, when they promised to accelerate the release with the money. And even threatened people: "Stopping the money, things will come, but "not in the level that we are doing""... but they already promised the ultimate level of game from the day one, so what a hell they are talking about ?
This is all obvious and continuous bait-and-switch that is basically in their bloods. They won't change. Wait for another week, another month, and we still will see they breaking promises, they contradicting themselves many times, and the reason is all the same... marketing... people willing to they fail... ignoring that their deal was to deliver into their promises, serivces, exclusivities, and NOT require from all backers that they have to work for their marketing team, directly, or indirectly having to wait more, because "they are worried with their future profit".
A PR flack's job is spew a bunch of BS to deflect public criticism (valid or not) to prevent negative publicity from hurting a product or brand.
That is all that we have here...
No reason to pay any attention.
Funny that you missed what I already brought... but who knows... here's again:
The crowd-funding campaign finished in Nov/2012.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
"The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. "
The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period.
They also mentioned after the end of the campaign, and all stretch goals accomplished, again:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/352301
The next two years are going to be incredible for all involved and we're thoroughly happy that all of you are along for this exciting ride.
I sent your post to a friend who works there. Just for his entertainment.
Stating that there is "precedence" in "murder" cases about intention and then "intention" is now considered in the Fair Act, was indeed... how can I say politely? Funny.
And saying that FTC wouldn't go to a case like this, when they are actually going to cases against crowd-funding of a couple thousands dollars recently (because its starting to raise the number of broken promises in these campaigns) was funny.
And the part of the "thank you CR to put YOUR 85 million dollars in the game" (pretty sure that not a single employee of that company have this weird mindset)
ROFL
You know nothing Jon Snow... not even the deal that you made with CIG you know. You know the bs that fanboys spread around to try to make people less entitled and criticize less their heroes... that's what you know. Nothing, except bs. And worst... Refuse to learn. That's what is even more ridiculous about these fanatics (no offense intended... fanatics is a mere group of fans... your passion blinds you... that happens with everyone in some point of our lives).
What's becoming apparent is I am talking to someone who has an agenda, that's usually when I bow out, it's obvious there's no reasoning with you to be had here... You're just going off on tangents that are all over the place. Good luck with that mind you've made up, I'll wait for the final results.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Looks at post history:
Dude you're pretty much at the point of being scary.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Wow.... The shoe fits
If this is accurate, my previous statement rings more true then ever
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I still wonder why CIG didn't take your offer to help back in 2013, and it makes me sad Derek.
You could have brought your incredible talent to the project. I always enjoyed reading your passionate posts and game suggestions before you got banned and all your posts archived under jcrg99.old, especially the one where you outlined your experience in the gaming industry
(just quoting you below so you know what I'm talking about mate)
"with more than 10 years of experience in the Software Development Area and additional 10 years in Business, working since from the small to the major companies of the world:" etc. continued here ->
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/20834/crowd-funding-the-revolution-starts-now-that-s-your-choice
so you got the credentials, the PhD in computer science, the world success blockbuster titles, why CIG never hired you is beyond my understanding. You worked for decades on EXACTLY this genre and I bet with your incredible expertise and fantastic games like Universal Combat and Line of Defense, Star Citizen would already be finished.
Only you can save StarCitizen now, you are our last hope, our last line of defense.
Since they ignored your help offer you literally have no other choice to get your friend at the FTC on them, good luck to both of you.