I would have given more credibility to him had they at least admitted to something, instead...EVERY concern the community has is in vein...so everything is perfect...come on man. No way is the community wrong on everything...of course we could be on some things...but when I see you defend every single thing, it looks like an 8 year trying to argue that his dad can beat up someone else dad.
Post started good, by the end, I felt like you were just defending everything and that the development team is just going to be right about everything...for me...that was the last straw...sad face, it's adventurine all over again, lol.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
I'll say it again. Goto SC kickstarter page. Now see under all of the pledges where it says estimated delivery date? It says Nov 2014. That's where they promised a delivery date. If you want to see what they should have delivered read any of the pledges.
Do you understand what "estimated" means...?
As far as I am aware, people did get their playable ships in AC module, alpha access, credits and alike.
So I assume you are just letting your mouth run wild...
Read the whole kickstarter page. Nov. 2014 was the estimated delivery date of a playable beta of the whole package. The wording "estimated" gives a bit af leeway, but at this time it is fair to consider it overdue.
BUT, apparently they made a puplic announcement about changeing the delivery date and scope of the project and at the same time offered money back to those not saticefied with that, so I guess all is OK and dandy in SC land... At least that is what the backers keeps telling me.
Originally posted by LacedOpium In other words, according to them it would all be fine and dandy if CIG ripped gamer's off of tens of millions of dollars.
How is one being ripped here?
1) You either want a game and you purchsase one,
or
2) you support devs in their endeavor, w/e that is.
There is no deception, nothing shady, crystal clear choice. No one is forcing or tricking anyone to spend money on ideas and talk instead of paying for product with finished development cycle.
In other words, according to them it would all be fine and dandy if CIG ripped gamer's off of tens of millions of dollars.
How is one being ripped here?
1) You either want a game and you purchsase one,
or
2) you support devs in their endeavor, w/e that is.
There is no deception, nothing shady, crystal clear choice. No one is forcing or tricking anyone to spend money on ideas and talk instead of paying for product with finished development cycle.
Up to each own, one can blame yourself only.
It is obviously clear to all that have backed this game, all of which have contributed a total of $85+ million dollars with many of them individually contributing thousands on just one spaceship, that they have done so on more than just a good faith expectation that they are not only going to receive a game in return, but that they are going to receive a pretty exceptional one at that. You are defending the morally reprehensible probability that CIG may not only not release an exceptional game, but that a game may not be released at all. I doubt that there is any documentation whatsoever by CIG spelling forth the probability that no game will be released at all, and if such where the case, that CIG would be entitled to keep all of the $85+ millions contributed. Yet here you are in this thread, with all your fanboy glory, proudly defending that if such be the case it would not be a rip-off, and that all of the backers should simply accept it and blame themselves for that unfortunate outcome. Like I said only a paid shill, or a rabid fanboy, would defend, or otherwise justify, such and indefensible and reprehensible point of view.
In other words, according to them it would all be fine and dandy if CIG ripped gamer's off of tens of millions of dollars.
How is one being ripped here?
1) You either want a game and you purchsase one,
or
2) you support devs in their endeavor, w/e that is.
There is no deception, nothing shady, crystal clear choice. No one is forcing or tricking anyone to spend money on ideas and talk instead of paying for product with finished development cycle.
Up to each own, one can blame yourself only.
It is obviously clear to all that have backed this game, all of which have contributed a total of $85+ million dollars with many of them individually contributing thousands on just one spaceship, that they have done so on more than just a good faith expectation that they are not only going to receive a game in return, but that they are going to receive a pretty exceptional one at that. You are defending the morally reprehensible probability that CIG may not only not release an exceptional game, but that a game may not be released at all. I doubt that there is any documentation whatsoever by CIG spelling forth the probability that no game will be released at all, and if such where the case, that CIG would be entitled to keep all of the $85+ millions contributed. Yet here you are in this thread, with all your fanboy glory, proudly defending that if such be the case it would not be a rip-off, and that all of the backers should simply accept it and blame themselves for that unfortunate outcome. Like I said only a paid shill, or a rabid fanboy, would defend, or otherwise justify, such and indefensible and reprehensible point of view.
Not getting a game is a possibility. With the money they got now, they would probably break even on a 5 years development cycle. What happens if the game is nowhere near complete and they are out of money ? Do you expect the 200 employee to just keep working for free ? Do you think you would have legal ways to get your money back ?
Kickstarter projects are never a garanteed return.
There are at least two issues being mashed together in this debate: (1) is proceeding in good faith on a very ambitious project and utterly failing morally acceptable? (2) Should those who fund kickstarter-type projects have some sort of insurance against their investment? Is there any clear evidence there has not been genuine effort on this gargantuan task?
In other words, according to them it would all be fine and dandy if CIG ripped gamer's off of tens of millions of dollars.
How is one being ripped here?
1) You either want a game and you purchsase one,
or
2) you support devs in their endeavor, w/e that is.
There is no deception, nothing shady, crystal clear choice. No one is forcing or tricking anyone to spend money on ideas and talk instead of paying for product with finished development cycle.
Up to each own, one can blame yourself only.
It is obviously clear to all that have backed this game, all of which have contributed a total of $85+ million dollars with many of them individually contributing thousands on just one spaceship, that they have done so on more than just a good faith expectation that they are not only going to receive a game in return, but that they are going to receive a pretty exceptional one at that. You are defending the morally reprehensible probability that CIG may not only not release an exceptional game, but that a game may not be released at all. I doubt that there is any documentation whatsoever by CIG spelling forth the probability that no game will be released at all, and if such where the case, that CIG would be entitled to keep all of the $85+ millions contributed. Yet here you are in this thread, with all your fanboy glory, proudly defending that if such be the case it would not be a rip-off, and that all of the backers should simply accept it and blame themselves for that unfortunate outcome. Like I said only a paid shill, or a rabid fanboy, would defend, or otherwise justify, such and indefensible and reprehensible point of view.
Not getting a game is a possibility. With the money they got now, they would probably break even on a 5 years development cycle. What happens if the game is nowhere near complete and they are out of money ? Do you expect the 200 employee to just keep working for free ? Do you think you would have legal ways to get your money back ?
Kickstarter projects are never a garanteed return.
I am not saying it isn't possible. I am saying it is indefensible. As in the possibility of it happening should not be defended or justified in any way. I am acutely aware that the possibility exist that it could happen. Will it actually happen? Of course not, and to think that it will after an $85 million dollar crowd funding campaign is an absolutely asinine position to take. What is more likely to happen, from a negative stand point, is that they will release what amounts to vaporware. But to defend and justify the probability that nothing at all will be released is nothing more than BS fanboy rhetoric designed to troll the player base.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Stay in School you might get a job at MacDonald's...
Time is still Time and it is a resource that has to be managed. It also happens to be very well limited.
This flows into the concept of an FTE (Full Time Employee), which equals between 1 day of work by 1 person or weeks or months depending on the scale.
You have a project that will take 8 FTE days to complete, you can put 8 people on it and get it done in a day sure. What happens when the team working gets to large to be efficient You start introducing FTE overhead just to manage the team and cause more FTE needed.
This is the balancing act, the reason development resources are limited.
So I am sick of tired of people running their mouths off with out having a clue what they hell they are talking about.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Stay in School you might get a job at MacDonald's...
Time is still Time and it is a resource that has to be managed. It also happens to be very well limited.
This flows into the concept of an FTE (Full Time Employee), which equals between 1 day of work by 1 person or weeks or months depending on the scale.
You have a project that will take 8 FTE days to complete, you can put 8 people on it and get it done in a day sure. What happens when the team working gets to large to be efficient You start introducing FTE overhead just to manage the team and cause more FTE needed.
This is the balancing act, the reason development resources are limited.
So I am sick of tired of people running their mouths off with out having a clue what they hell they are talking about.
Management of time and employee resources and budgets is taught in Business Management 101. There is no excuse for the failure to manage time, employee resources and budgets to the extent that it produces catastrophic results for a company. If your managers are unable to manage your company's time, employee resources, and budgets efficiently and effectively then perhaps it is time that these so-called managers themselves find their way back to school. That is what the positions of CEO and CFO were created for, to manage and be accountable for the personnel and financial duties, tasks, and responsibilities of their respective company, and to do so in a manner that will ensure bottom line success.
I'll say it again. Goto SC kickstarter page. Now see under all of the pledges where it says estimated delivery date? It says Nov 2014. That's where they promised a delivery date. If you want to see what they should have delivered read any of the pledges.
Do you understand what "estimated" means...?
As far as I am aware, people did get their playable ships in AC module, alpha access, credits and alike.
So I assume you are just letting your mouth run wild...
Read the whole kickstarter page. Nov. 2014 was the estimated delivery date of a playable beta of the whole package. The wording "estimated" gives a bit af leeway, but at this time it is fair to consider it overdue.
BUT, apparently they made a puplic announcement about changeing the delivery date and scope of the project and at the same time offered money back to those not saticefied with that, so I guess all is OK and dandy in SC land... At least that is what the backers keeps telling me.
Nov. 2014 was the release of the full game (SQuadron 42 + PU).
Alpha and Beta were not an "estimate". Was a promise:
Alpha 12 months in after the end of the campaign: Nov/2013.
Beta 20-22 months after the end of the campaign: July/Sept 2014
Full release: Nov/2014.
I never heard about their offering money back. Ever! I Would be interested to see the link if you could provide it.
They actually did the opposite. They made stretch goals after the end of the original campaign, implied that those wouldn't hold the release:
"There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. Typically the stretch goals fall into two categories;"
"But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state. Also remember that this is not like a typical retail boxed product — there is no rule that all features and content have to come online at the same time! As you can see from the Hangar Module we plan to make functionality and content come on line as it’s ready, so you should look at the stretch goals as a window into the future of functionality and content additions we plan for the live game."
Originally posted by LacedOpiumYou are defending the morally reprehensible probability that CIG may not only not release an exceptional game, but that a game may not be released at all.
What is moral about making bad decisions and then asking someone else to pay for your loss/not met expectations or w/e ?!
That, sir, is immoral.
Backers made their choice. They could throw their money on already released product, therefore appreciate already invested time and money, or they could spend their money on developer support with uncertain outcome.
You make the choice, you bear the consequences. How again is that indefensible?
How do you folks not realize this is vaporware by now? I knew it after the third or fourth "special" $100+ ship. Add to that the INSANE amount of feature creep. It's not gonna happen. And if by some miracle it does happen, I have a feeling it's gonna be REEEEAL bad. I hope for the sake of the backers and fans that I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra How do you folks not realize this is vaporware by now?
Maybe because i play this "vaporware" a few times a week and enjoy it ?
Play it alone (PvE) and together with others (PvP and racing) in various game modes and with many different ships, especially when there is a free fly test week like this week (Origin 300i and variants 315p, 325a and 350r).
I backed about 20 kickstarter projects, I lost hope in some, got my money worth in others and some others are still on tracks.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date. To my knowledge, the most butthurt peoples are the ones involved in the black market of LTI ships, but just to hurt those retards I am glad they did more LTI sales to fuck them up.
All you highlight about FTC is true, but none of it applies right now. Marketing an existing product is a lot easier than something that doesn't exist yet. Honest mistake can happen, and until you can prove foul play, there is nothing you can do.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date.
July 13th 2016
After a month without new patches and people still waiting eagerly by the release of the first chapter of Squadron 42, and some internet uproar due a lack of communication of CIG, finally Chris Roberts decided to end the rumors with a fantastic news for its Universe.
With the money that CIG gathered, they decide that it's time to Star Citizen to achieve a larger public. When Roberts thought about this project, he knew that was impossible to make a console version of Star Citizen. But then, after some meetings with Sony and Microsoft, and an unexpected interested of those behemoths of the tech industry, CIG just announced that Star Citizen is coming for Xbox One and PlayStation 4!
"Yes, I could not image when I saw their technologies. I thought that they couldn't handle, but I was wrong. With a few optimizations we will be able to deliver. I think that people misunderstood me. I never said that this game could never come to consoles, I just said that they accepting a deal in my terms would be difficult." - says Roberts.
Roberts did not reveal the details about such terms but he guarantee that the backers shouldn't be worried: "I assure you that with the massive interest of backers from console that have been requesting us by email for years we will be able to escalate our team to develop all versions. Our plan is to release in all platforms at the same time in any time soon. Don't worry, it could take a little longer due unexpected things, but It will worth the wait. Trust me. We made a test bed of a version of AC already that we have been keeping in secret because we would want to give you this great news as a surprise. And it's simply amazing. I am amazed by the job that Microsoft and Sony did in the last year." - Roberts said.
"When I said that the Space Sims weren't death I was talking seriously. I am pretty sure that our backers will understand. We have the best community ever, true heroes that are sending a message to the publisher and the message was received and now, they are really interested and opened to a fair deal. And remember, as more people better. We are announcing a new stretch goal too. With more 10 millions dollars, we will do cross-platform!!! And we will show a demo of that on Gamescon! And for the new people that will pledge for the console version to help with the development, we are announcing more 10 ships with special skins of Sony and Microsoft. And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
Reports say that backers apparnetly were angry with the decision and worried about delays or downgrades, but it sounds just a rumor.
Our team checked the CIG Forums yesterday after this announcement and everything was fine, with all people happy and praising the developers. The counter also show a influx of new backers and they made more 2 million dollars in a few hours. Someone touched us to say that all the complaines would be in some "concern" section but we weren't able to find it after a few hours digging the RSI forums. Probably was just another non-sense troll attitude of that well know hater that we can't say the name three times that he appears.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date.
July 13th 2016
After a month without new patches and people still waiting eagerly by the release of the first chapter of Squadron 42, and some internet uproar due a lack of communication of CIG, finally Chris Roberts decided to end the rumors with a fantastic news for its Universe.
With the money that CIG gathered, they decide that it's time to Star Citizen to achieve a larger public. When Roberts thought about this project, he knew that was impossible to make a console version of Star Citizen. But then, after some meetings with Sony and Microsoft, and an unexpected interested of those behemoths of the tech industry, CIG just announced that Star Citizen is coming for Xbox One and PlayStation 4!
"Yes, I could not image when I saw their technologies. I thought that they couldn't handle, but I was wrong. With a few optimizations we will be able to deliver. I think that people misunderstood me. I never said that this game could never come to consoles, I just said that they accepting a deal in my terms would be difficult." - says Roberts.
Roberts did not reveal the details about such terms but he guarantee that the backers shouldn't be worried: "I assure you that with the massive interest of backers from console that have been requesting us by email for years we will be able to escalate our team to develop all versions. Our plan is to release in all platforms at the same time in any time soon. Don't worry, it could take a little longer due unexpected things, but It will worth the wait. Trust me. We made a test bed of a version of AC already that we have been keeping in secret because we would want to give you this great news as a surprise. And it's simply amazing. I am amazed by the job that Microsoft and Sony did in the last year." - Roberts said.
"When I said that the Space Sims weren't death I was talking seriously. I am pretty sure that our backers will understand. We have the best community ever, true heroes that are sending a message to the publisher and the message was received and now, they are really interested and opened to a fair deal. And remember, as more people better. We are announcing a new stretch goal too. With more 10 millions dollars, we will do cross-platform!!! And we will show a demo of that on Gamescon! And for the new people that will pledge for the console version to help with the development, we are announcing more 10 ships with special skins of Sony and Microsoft. And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
Reports say that backers apparnetly were angry with the decision and worried about delays or downgrades, but it sounds just a rumor.
Our team checked the CIG Forums yesterday after this announcement and everything was fine, with all people happy and praising the developers. The counter also show a influx of new backers and they made more 2 million dollars in a few hours. Someone touched us to say that all the complaines would be in some "concern" section but we weren't able to find it after a few hours digging the RSI forums. Probably was just another non-sense troll attitude of that well know hater that we can't say the name three times that he appears.
After reading that i honestly had to check to make sure it wasn't april 1st.
So, now that part of the game is on indefinite hold, they are going to start working on porting it to consoles. Obvious distraction tactic.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date.
July 13th 2016
After a month without new patches and people still waiting eagerly by the release of the first chapter of Squadron 42, and some internet uproar due a lack of communication of CIG, finally Chris Roberts decided to end the rumors with a fantastic news for its Universe.
With the money that CIG gathered, they decide that it's time to Star Citizen to achieve a larger public. When Roberts thought about this project, he knew that was impossible to make a console version of Star Citizen. But then, after some meetings with Sony and Microsoft, and an unexpected interested of those behemoths of the tech industry, CIG just announced that Star Citizen is coming for Xbox One and PlayStation 4!
"Yes, I could not image when I saw their technologies. I thought that they couldn't handle, but I was wrong. With a few optimizations we will be able to deliver. I think that people misunderstood me. I never said that this game could never come to consoles, I just said that they accepting a deal in my terms would be difficult." - says Roberts.
Roberts did not reveal the details about such terms but he guarantee that the backers shouldn't be worried: "I assure you that with the massive interest of backers from console that have been requesting us by email for years we will be able to escalate our team to develop all versions. Our plan is to release in all platforms at the same time in any time soon. Don't worry, it could take a little longer due unexpected things, but It will worth the wait. Trust me. We made a test bed of a version of AC already that we have been keeping in secret because we would want to give you this great news as a surprise. And it's simply amazing. I am amazed by the job that Microsoft and Sony did in the last year." - Roberts said.
"When I said that the Space Sims weren't death I was talking seriously. I am pretty sure that our backers will understand. We have the best community ever, true heroes that are sending a message to the publisher and the message was received and now, they are really interested and opened to a fair deal. And remember, as more people better. We are announcing a new stretch goal too. With more 10 millions dollars, we will do cross-platform!!! And we will show a demo of that on Gamescon! And for the new people that will pledge for the console version to help with the development, we are announcing more 10 ships with special skins of Sony and Microsoft. And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
Reports say that backers apparnetly were angry with the decision and worried about delays or downgrades, but it sounds just a rumor.
Our team checked the CIG Forums yesterday after this announcement and everything was fine, with all people happy and praising the developers. The counter also show a influx of new backers and they made more 2 million dollars in a few hours. Someone touched us to say that all the complaines would be in some "concern" section but we weren't able to find it after a few hours digging the RSI forums. Probably was just another non-sense troll attitude of that well know hater that we can't say the name three times that he appears.
Why did you quote me ? You just proved that I was right. If Sony and microsoft are now partners, I guess it proves that the game is gonna happen.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date.
July 13th 2016
After a month without new patches and people still waiting eagerly by the release of the first chapter of Squadron 42, and some internet uproar due a lack of communication of CIG, finally Chris Roberts decided to end the rumors with a fantastic news for its Universe.
With the money that CIG gathered, they decide that it's time to Star Citizen to achieve a larger public. When Roberts thought about this project, he knew that was impossible to make a console version of Star Citizen. But then, after some meetings with Sony and Microsoft, and an unexpected interested of those behemoths of the tech industry, CIG just announced that Star Citizen is coming for Xbox One and PlayStation 4!
"Yes, I could not image when I saw their technologies. I thought that they couldn't handle, but I was wrong. With a few optimizations we will be able to deliver. I think that people misunderstood me. I never said that this game could never come to consoles, I just said that they accepting a deal in my terms would be difficult." - says Roberts.
Roberts did not reveal the details about such terms but he guarantee that the backers shouldn't be worried: "I assure you that with the massive interest of backers from console that have been requesting us by email for years we will be able to escalate our team to develop all versions. Our plan is to release in all platforms at the same time in any time soon. Don't worry, it could take a little longer due unexpected things, but It will worth the wait. Trust me. We made a test bed of a version of AC already that we have been keeping in secret because we would want to give you this great news as a surprise. And it's simply amazing. I am amazed by the job that Microsoft and Sony did in the last year." - Roberts said.
"When I said that the Space Sims weren't death I was talking seriously. I am pretty sure that our backers will understand. We have the best community ever, true heroes that are sending a message to the publisher and the message was received and now, they are really interested and opened to a fair deal. And remember, as more people better. We are announcing a new stretch goal too. With more 10 millions dollars, we will do cross-platform!!! And we will show a demo of that on Gamescon! And for the new people that will pledge for the console version to help with the development, we are announcing more 10 ships with special skins of Sony and Microsoft. And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
Reports say that backers apparnetly were angry with the decision and worried about delays or downgrades, but it sounds just a rumor.
Our team checked the CIG Forums yesterday after this announcement and everything was fine, with all people happy and praising the developers. The counter also show a influx of new backers and they made more 2 million dollars in a few hours. Someone touched us to say that all the complaines would be in some "concern" section but we weren't able to find it after a few hours digging the RSI forums. Probably was just another non-sense troll attitude of that well know hater that we can't say the name three times that he appears.
After reading that i honestly had to check to make sure it wasn't april 1st.
So, now that part of the game is on indefinite hold, they are going to start working on porting it to consoles. Obvious distraction tactic.
Wow, I would be feeling like such a sucker right about now if I had backed this sham. It is so transparently insulting the way they describe their backers as "true heroes." Oh, and of course they would beg for an additional 10 million from these so-called "true heroes" lol. That's what you call having no scruples. Instead of working on finally releasing a game for the backers who have already contributed their money and have waited patiently only to be faced with delay after delay, they are now going to make them wait even longer for a console version that they did not ask for or need. I mean, couldn't this console version have waited until they released something more substantive to their "true heroes" before deciding on delaying the game even longer to work on a console version? This is so beyond a feature creep its bordering on the ridiculous. It is truly a shameful sham. I am feeling really bad for these backe ... er ... "true heroes" who have sent money for this shameful sham of a company. Just glad I wasn't one of them.
Just listen to this guy ...
... And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
... yeah, remember don't listen to us, just keep sending me your hard earned money because I need a new beach house in the Bahamas. You know me. Don't worry.
Not getting a game is a possibility. With the money they got now, they would probably break even on a 5 years development cycle. What happens if the game is nowhere near complete and they are out of money ? Do you expect the 200 employee to just keep working for free ? Do you think you would have legal ways to get your money back ?
I don't see how the 200 employee that CIG employs to make the game relevant to this overall debate at hand - as the backers backs the FINISHED PRODUCT, NOT the 200 employees that they hired to make the product.
What you are essentially saying is we should care the life story of person who baked a cupcake when we go the a cake shop to buy a dozen of them, and if it doesn't taste good we should take into account of his life story... that's as strawman an argument as one can get. Lol.
**snip ** Instead of working on finally releasing a game for the backers who have already contributed their money and have waited patiently only to be faced with delay after delay, they are now going to make them wait even longer for a console version that they did not ask for or need. **snip**
You do realize that you are reacting to a fake July 13th 2016 (!) article from the future invented by jcrg99 and that this is not a real announcement from CIG, do you not ?
Have fun
PS:
@Phry: >>>So, now that part of the game is on indefinite hold, they are going to start working on porting it to consoles. Obvious distraction tactic.>>>>
See above - you are reacting to a fake, invented announcement from the future.
the backers backs the FINISHED PRODUCT, NOT the 200 employees that they hired to make the product.
I think you´re confusing your Chinese Kickstarter USB handsfree watch with a game development project, buddy.
Guess what, your USB watch needs a few employees turning on the assembly line in the morning, and with a bit of luck they even get paid for doing it.
It might be a shocking revelation to you but if you buy a burger at McD, they use some of that money to pay employees. Please don´t sue them, it´s just how economy works these days, at least until we all get replaced by robots who don´t ask for paychecks.
Not getting a game is a possibility. With the money they got now, they would probably break even on a 5 years development cycle. What happens if the game is nowhere near complete and they are out of money ? Do you expect the 200 employee to just keep working for free ? Do you think you would have legal ways to get your money back ?
I don't see how the 200 employee that CIG employs to make the game relevant to this overall debate at hand - as the backers backs the FINISHED PRODUCT, NOT the 200 employees that they hired to make the product.
What you are essentially saying is we should care the life story of person who baked a cupcake when we go the a cake shop to buy a dozen of them, and if it doesn't taste good we should take into account of his life story... that's as strawman an argument as one can get. Lol.
Hmm no. What I am saying is simply that the game might never happen. If they run out of money, they might give us a quick release of what they have so far and that's it. There is no garantee, and those employee won't just keep working for free. You then would have no way to sue them to get your money back as they will actually be out of money.
Most of the conversation this post was linked to was deleted, so I could understand your confusion.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Stay in School you might get a job at MacDonald's...
Time is still Time and it is a resource that has to be managed. It also happens to be very well limited.
This flows into the concept of an FTE (Full Time Employee), which equals between 1 day of work by 1 person or weeks or months depending on the scale.
You have a project that will take 8 FTE days to complete, you can put 8 people on it and get it done in a day sure. What happens when the team working gets to large to be efficient You start introducing FTE overhead just to manage the team and cause more FTE needed.
This is the balancing act, the reason development resources are limited.
So I am sick of tired of people running their mouths off with out having a clue what they hell they are talking about.
Management of time and employee resources and budgets is taught in Business Management 101. There is no excuse for the failure to manage time, employee resources and budgets to the extent that it produces catastrophic results for a company. If your managers are unable to manage your company's time, employee resources, and budgets efficiently and effectively then perhaps it is time that these so-called managers themselves find their way back to school. That is what the positions of CEO and CFO were created for, to manage and be accountable for the personnel and financial duties, tasks, and responsibilities of their respective company, and to do so in a manner that will ensure bottom line success.
You still can't manage more then 24 hours out of a day. Time is still a limited resource that no amount of money can fix.
And last time I checked there was no course called Business Management 101, and even if there was then I am pretty sure the Project Managers and Producers of the project should be there not the Managers.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS EXCUSE FROM WAY TOO MANY DEVs:
"The thing to remember is that we work with limited development resources. "
GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! SC broke records with the amount of money it obtained from backers, THERE SHOULD BE NO LIMITED "ANYTHING"!!!!
Sounds like someone is mismanaging ALL THAT MONEY.
Stay in School you might get a job at MacDonald's...
Time is still Time and it is a resource that has to be managed. It also happens to be very well limited.
This flows into the concept of an FTE (Full Time Employee), which equals between 1 day of work by 1 person or weeks or months depending on the scale.
You have a project that will take 8 FTE days to complete, you can put 8 people on it and get it done in a day sure. What happens when the team working gets to large to be efficient You start introducing FTE overhead just to manage the team and cause more FTE needed.
This is the balancing act, the reason development resources are limited.
So I am sick of tired of people running their mouths off with out having a clue what they hell they are talking about.
Management of time and employee resources and budgets is taught in Business Management 101. There is no excuse for the failure to manage time, employee resources and budgets to the extent that it produces catastrophic results for a company. If your managers are unable to manage your company's time, employee resources, and budgets efficiently and effectively then perhaps it is time that these so-called managers themselves find their way back to school. That is what the positions of CEO and CFO were created for, to manage and be accountable for the personnel and financial duties, tasks, and responsibilities of their respective company, and to do so in a manner that will ensure bottom line success.
You still can't manage more then 24 hours out of a day. Time is still a limited resource that no amount of money can fix.
And last time I checked there was no course called Business Management 101, and even if there was then I am pretty sure the Project Managers and Producers of the project should be there not the Managers.
Read, Comprehend, Think Before Replying.
Honestly, I'm not sure it's even worth the time posting reality and facts here. This forum is a working example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. If I were a psychology professor I'd simply point to this forum and say, "This week's topic is the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Take a few hours reading the Star Citizen forum on MMORPG.com to get a great understanding of what that is."
Comments
I would have given more credibility to him had they at least admitted to something, instead...EVERY concern the community has is in vein...so everything is perfect...come on man. No way is the community wrong on everything...of course we could be on some things...but when I see you defend every single thing, it looks like an 8 year trying to argue that his dad can beat up someone else dad.
Post started good, by the end, I felt like you were just defending everything and that the development team is just going to be right about everything...for me...that was the last straw...sad face, it's adventurine all over again, lol.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Read the whole kickstarter page. Nov. 2014 was the estimated delivery date of a playable beta of the whole package. The wording "estimated" gives a bit af leeway, but at this time it is fair to consider it overdue.
BUT, apparently they made a puplic announcement about changeing the delivery date and scope of the project and at the same time offered money back to those not saticefied with that, so I guess all is OK and dandy in SC land... At least that is what the backers keeps telling me.
How is one being ripped here?
1) You either want a game and you purchsase one,
or
2) you support devs in their endeavor, w/e that is.
There is no deception, nothing shady, crystal clear choice. No one is forcing or tricking anyone to spend money on ideas and talk instead of paying for product with finished development cycle.
Up to each own, one can blame yourself only.
It is obviously clear to all that have backed this game, all of which have contributed a total of $85+ million dollars with many of them individually contributing thousands on just one spaceship, that they have done so on more than just a good faith expectation that they are not only going to receive a game in return, but that they are going to receive a pretty exceptional one at that. You are defending the morally reprehensible probability that CIG may not only not release an exceptional game, but that a game may not be released at all. I doubt that there is any documentation whatsoever by CIG spelling forth the probability that no game will be released at all, and if such where the case, that CIG would be entitled to keep all of the $85+ millions contributed. Yet here you are in this thread, with all your fanboy glory, proudly defending that if such be the case it would not be a rip-off, and that all of the backers should simply accept it and blame themselves for that unfortunate outcome. Like I said only a paid shill, or a rabid fanboy, would defend, or otherwise justify, such and indefensible and reprehensible point of view.
Not getting a game is a possibility. With the money they got now, they would probably break even on a 5 years development cycle. What happens if the game is nowhere near complete and they are out of money ? Do you expect the 200 employee to just keep working for free ? Do you think you would have legal ways to get your money back ?
Kickstarter projects are never a garanteed return.
Is there any clear evidence there has not been genuine effort on this gargantuan task?
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
I am not saying it isn't possible. I am saying it is indefensible. As in the possibility of it happening should not be defended or justified in any way. I am acutely aware that the possibility exist that it could happen. Will it actually happen? Of course not, and to think that it will after an $85 million dollar crowd funding campaign is an absolutely asinine position to take. What is more likely to happen, from a negative stand point, is that they will release what amounts to vaporware. But to defend and justify the probability that nothing at all will be released is nothing more than BS fanboy rhetoric designed to troll the player base.
Stay in School you might get a job at MacDonald's...
Time is still Time and it is a resource that has to be managed. It also happens to be very well limited.
This flows into the concept of an FTE (Full Time Employee), which equals between 1 day of work by 1 person or weeks or months depending on the scale.
You have a project that will take 8 FTE days to complete, you can put 8 people on it and get it done in a day sure. What happens when the team working gets to large to be efficient You start introducing FTE overhead just to manage the team and cause more FTE needed.
This is the balancing act, the reason development resources are limited.
So I am sick of tired of people running their mouths off with out having a clue what they hell they are talking about.
Management of time and employee resources and budgets is taught in Business Management 101. There is no excuse for the failure to manage time, employee resources and budgets to the extent that it produces catastrophic results for a company. If your managers are unable to manage your company's time, employee resources, and budgets efficiently and effectively then perhaps it is time that these so-called managers themselves find their way back to school. That is what the positions of CEO and CFO were created for, to manage and be accountable for the personnel and financial duties, tasks, and responsibilities of their respective company, and to do so in a manner that will ensure bottom line success.
Nov. 2014 was the release of the full game (SQuadron 42 + PU).
Alpha and Beta were not an "estimate". Was a promise:
Alpha 12 months in after the end of the campaign: Nov/2013.
Beta 20-22 months after the end of the campaign: July/Sept 2014
Full release: Nov/2014.
I never heard about their offering money back. Ever! I Would be interested to see the link if you could provide it.
They actually did the opposite. They made stretch goals after the end of the original campaign, implied that those wouldn't hold the release:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million
"There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. Typically the stretch goals fall into two categories;"
"But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state. Also remember that this is not like a typical retail boxed product — there is no rule that all features and content have to come online at the same time! As you can see from the Hangar Module we plan to make functionality and content come on line as it’s ready, so you should look at the stretch goals as a window into the future of functionality and content additions we plan for the live game."
What is moral about making bad decisions and then asking someone else to pay for your loss/not met expectations or w/e ?!
That, sir, is immoral.
Backers made their choice. They could throw their money on already released product, therefore appreciate already invested time and money, or they could spend their money on developer support with uncertain outcome.
You make the choice, you bear the consequences. How again is that indefensible?
Maybe because i play this "vaporware" a few times a week and enjoy it ?
Play it alone (PvE) and together with others (PvP and racing) in various game modes and with many different ships, especially when there is a free fly test week like this week (Origin 300i and variants 315p, 325a and 350r).
Have fun
[mod edit]
I backed about 20 kickstarter projects, I lost hope in some, got my money worth in others and some others are still on tracks.
So again, as long as they spend money on the game, I don't care about past exclusivity promises or estimated launch date. To my knowledge, the most butthurt peoples are the ones involved in the black market of LTI ships, but just to hurt those retards I am glad they did more LTI sales to fuck them up.
All you highlight about FTC is true, but none of it applies right now. Marketing an existing product is a lot easier than something that doesn't exist yet. Honest mistake can happen, and until you can prove foul play, there is nothing you can do.
July 13th 2016
After a month without new patches and people still waiting eagerly by the release of the first chapter of Squadron 42, and some internet uproar due a lack of communication of CIG, finally Chris Roberts decided to end the rumors with a fantastic news for its Universe.
With the money that CIG gathered, they decide that it's time to Star Citizen to achieve a larger public. When Roberts thought about this project, he knew that was impossible to make a console version of Star Citizen. But then, after some meetings with Sony and Microsoft, and an unexpected interested of those behemoths of the tech industry, CIG just announced that Star Citizen is coming for Xbox One and PlayStation 4!
"Yes, I could not image when I saw their technologies. I thought that they couldn't handle, but I was wrong. With a few optimizations we will be able to deliver. I think that people misunderstood me. I never said that this game could never come to consoles, I just said that they accepting a deal in my terms would be difficult." - says Roberts.
Roberts did not reveal the details about such terms but he guarantee that the backers shouldn't be worried: "I assure you that with the massive interest of backers from console that have been requesting us by email for years we will be able to escalate our team to develop all versions. Our plan is to release in all platforms at the same time in any time soon. Don't worry, it could take a little longer due unexpected things, but It will worth the wait. Trust me. We made a test bed of a version of AC already that we have been keeping in secret because we would want to give you this great news as a surprise. And it's simply amazing. I am amazed by the job that Microsoft and Sony did in the last year." - Roberts said.
"When I said that the Space Sims weren't death I was talking seriously. I am pretty sure that our backers will understand. We have the best community ever, true heroes that are sending a message to the publisher and the message was received and now, they are really interested and opened to a fair deal. And remember, as more people better. We are announcing a new stretch goal too. With more 10 millions dollars, we will do cross-platform!!! And we will show a demo of that on Gamescon! And for the new people that will pledge for the console version to help with the development, we are announcing more 10 ships with special skins of Sony and Microsoft. And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
Reports say that backers apparnetly were angry with the decision and worried about delays or downgrades, but it sounds just a rumor.
Our team checked the CIG Forums yesterday after this announcement and everything was fine, with all people happy and praising the developers. The counter also show a influx of new backers and they made more 2 million dollars in a few hours. Someone touched us to say that all the complaines would be in some "concern" section but we weren't able to find it after a few hours digging the RSI forums. Probably was just another non-sense troll attitude of that well know hater that we can't say the name three times that he appears.
After reading that i honestly had to check to make sure it wasn't april 1st.
So, now that part of the game is on indefinite hold, they are going to start working on porting it to consoles. Obvious distraction tactic.
Why did you quote me ? You just proved that I was right. If Sony and microsoft are now partners, I guess it proves that the game is gonna happen.
Wow, I would be feeling like such a sucker right about now if I had backed this sham. It is so transparently insulting the way they describe their backers as "true heroes." Oh, and of course they would beg for an additional 10 million from these so-called "true heroes" lol. That's what you call having no scruples. Instead of working on finally releasing a game for the backers who have already contributed their money and have waited patiently only to be faced with delay after delay, they are now going to make them wait even longer for a console version that they did not ask for or need. I mean, couldn't this console version have waited until they released something more substantive to their "true heroes" before deciding on delaying the game even longer to work on a console version? This is so beyond a feature creep its bordering on the ridiculous. It is truly a shameful sham. I am feeling really bad for these backe ... er ... "true heroes" who have sent money for this shameful sham of a company. Just glad I wasn't one of them.
Just listen to this guy ...
... And remember, despite the hater accusations you shouldn't listen. You know me. All dime goes to the development. I guarantee you that these conspiracies are all false."
... yeah, remember don't listen to us, just keep sending me your hard earned money because I need a new beach house in the Bahamas. You know me. Don't worry.
/laughs
I don't see how the 200 employee that CIG employs to make the game relevant to this overall debate at hand - as the backers backs the FINISHED PRODUCT, NOT the 200 employees that they hired to make the product.
What you are essentially saying is we should care the life story of person who baked a cupcake when we go the a cake shop to buy a dozen of them, and if it doesn't taste good we should take into account of his life story... that's as strawman an argument as one can get. Lol.
I think you´re confusing your Chinese Kickstarter USB handsfree watch with a game development project, buddy.
Guess what, your USB watch needs a few employees turning on the assembly line in the morning, and with a bit of luck they even get paid for doing it.
It might be a shocking revelation to you but if you buy a burger at McD, they use some of that money to pay employees. Please don´t sue them, it´s just how economy works these days, at least until we all get replaced by robots who don´t ask for paychecks.
Hmm no. What I am saying is simply that the game might never happen. If they run out of money, they might give us a quick release of what they have so far and that's it. There is no garantee, and those employee won't just keep working for free. You then would have no way to sue them to get your money back as they will actually be out of money.
Most of the conversation this post was linked to was deleted, so I could understand your confusion.
You still can't manage more then 24 hours out of a day. Time is still a limited resource that no amount of money can fix.
And last time I checked there was no course called Business Management 101, and even if there was then I am pretty sure the Project Managers and Producers of the project should be there not the Managers.
Read, Comprehend, Think Before Replying.
Honestly, I'm not sure it's even worth the time posting reality and facts here. This forum is a working example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. If I were a psychology professor I'd simply point to this forum and say, "This week's topic is the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Take a few hours reading the Star Citizen forum on MMORPG.com to get a great understanding of what that is."