Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
Here's some perspective. Firefall was the brain child of people who were apart of WoW and Tribes Ascend. Explain that mess. Go.
I thought Tribes Ascend was fun. Firefall was fun for a minute. Got bored of World of Warcraft within two weeks.
Not all game releases will be 'fun' or turn out 'as people envision them' here. Star Citizen may end up as the greatest game of all time or it could end up being a pile of trash that people find boring, or lose its luster in a week.
However, Derek Smart has yet to release a successful MMO. Alganon, a game he has didn't build himself and was rather bad, was a game that he executed a hostile takeover to boot David Allen out of (who actually led the development of it from start to release; who basically did the heavy lifting). it's reasonable to believe that part of Derek Smart's comments (and based upon how narcissistic the guy is) that he may even believe he has some chance to actually step in and take over Star Citizen. Hire an independent executive producer? Derek Smart boasts about the fact that he's the 'oldest' indie game developer... I would not put it past the guy.
Line of Defense will be his first MMO that he led dev on from start to finish(if you can even call it that) and it's already being panned with 'Mostly Negative' reviews.
People affiliated with Derek Smart/3000AD in some way on Steam were caught posting Metacritic reviews giving Line of Defense Tactics a high score.
Derek Smart's announcement of Line of Defense (including release date):
Put that in perspective as he bashes CIG for missing their original release date by eight or so months. He missed his by three years, according that article. And, even the original Star Citizen game scope was more advanced than Line of Defense...
Reality check is when someone asks 'where is the beef?', have that company panic/refund the money to silence him. Kinda funny in a sad way really.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
PLEASE TELL ME WHICH OF THESE GAMES CHARGED PEOPLE FOR ASSETS IN A UNFINISHED GAME NOT JUST CHARGE BUT OVERPRICE WITH SOME ASSETS COSTING IN THE $1000'S EASY?????? SMH PAID ALPHA?? WTF?
You can dislike Dsmart all you want bruh but this dude has a valid point and its not hard to see the greed in this company already.. but if you want to be blind to it more power to you.. I know personally i'm not paying over $60 and i'm def not paying for a alpha test and im not paying hundreds, or thousands of dollars for anything to do with this game or any other its crazy and greedy. FOH = Fuck outta here.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Originally posted by mbrodie You have serious mental issues, creating thread after thread.. far out.
Another ad hominem attack.
Were you aware of the Arena Commander videos on Youtube that showcase the vaporware project known as Star Citizen? Do they kinda shatter your position?
PLEASE TELL ME WHICH OF THESE GAMES CHARGED PEOPLE FOR ASSETS IN A UNFINISHED GAME NOT JUST CHARGE BUT OVERPRICE WITH SOME ASSETS COSTING IN THE $1000'S EASY?????? SMH PAID ALPHA?? WTF?
You can dislike Dsmart all you want bruh but this dude has a valid point and its not hard to see the greed in this company already.. but if you want to be blind to it more power to you.. I know personally i'm not paying over $60 and i'm def not paying for a alpha test and im not paying hundreds, or thousands of dollars for anything to do with this game or any other its crazy and greedy. FOH = Fuck outta here.
Please tell me the part in which any of the backers were forced to buy those assets and were given a guarantee that a product would be launched? With all indications still pointing a product still in full development, and not what a very small 'minority' of people suffering from Dunning-Kruger Effects are saying?
Anyone that takes his points or words seriously is incredibly naive. Just because certain points are raised or has some measure of truth in this doesn't mean the entire thing isn't credible due to dishonesty, misrepresentation, a play on people's ignorance, and so forth.
The small rowdy group with the pitchforks will welcome any supporters to their cause, no questions asked.
They cannot afford to be picky, they need the numbers desperately.
I'm sorry but 30 percent of the Backers wanting their money back is not a small rowdy group. It is almost 1/3 of your support and would probably cripple CIG snd RSI's attempts to put the game out.
Why do people keep saying this? A poll asking if people want the ability to receive refunds, is not exactly the same thing as people saying they want a refund, they're saying they'd welcome the option if they wanted a refund. Was it also representative of everyone who backed the game? I highly doubt that as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
PLEASE TELL ME WHICH OF THESE GAMES CHARGED PEOPLE FOR ASSETS IN A UNFINISHED GAME NOT JUST CHARGE BUT OVERPRICE WITH SOME ASSETS COSTING IN THE $1000'S EASY?????? SMH PAID ALPHA?? WTF?
You can dislike Dsmart all you want bruh but this dude has a valid point and its not hard to see the greed in this company already.. but if you want to be blind to it more power to you.. I know personally i'm not paying over $60 and i'm def not paying for a alpha test and im not paying hundreds, or thousands of dollars for anything to do with this game or any other its crazy and greedy. FOH = Fuck outta here.
Please tell me the part in which any of the backers were forced to buy those assets and were given a guarantee that a product would be launched? With all indications still pointing a product still in full development, and not what a very small 'minority' of people suffering from Dunning-Kruger Effects are saying?
yep another person ignoring the subject at hand.. this will be easy.
So what you are saying is people who get robbed through bank heists are at fault because they chose to put their money in the BANK??
your logic is ass backwards mate. NO they didnt have to do it, but they did and there is little accountability for where their money went. If there is no foul play then SC should be transparent and end all this drama.. what are they hiding for if they arent doing anything wrong?
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Originally posted by mbrodie You have serious mental issues, creating thread after thread.. far out.
Another ad hominem attack.
Were you aware of the Arena Commander videos on Youtube that showcase the vaporware project known as Star Citizen? Do they kinda shatter your position?
You realise Arena Commander is an instanced dog fighting simulator and nothing more.
Of which is still an Alpha Module (not even the whole game)
Of which you need to pay $60 to get access too (again, alpha module not even the whole game.. $60 for 1 instanced dog fighting map)
Of which you also need to buy ships ontop of it (again, alpha ships, for an alpha module of 1 instanced dog fighting map)
and thats all they have to show after 2 and a half years and $85 million in crowdfunding.
How is bashing Derek Smart's games a legitimate argument for what Roberts and his company are doing? Even if everything Smart has ever made is terrible and you don't like it, how does that change any of the facts about Star Citizen that he has put forward? Can't you argue against his points, or are you just trying to discredit him based on what you perceive to be the quality of his work?
This argument in this thread just doesn't make any sense. Even if he doesn't make very good games (and I have no idea because I've never played a single one), he still knows about the gaming industry, and what it takes on the technical side to make these games. There are several people in the gaming industry that have similar knowledge and would probably agree with him on his assessment. There are also a LOT of backers who stand on his side and feel that there is a massive lack of transparency, and a real concern about the fact that they have yet to deliver even an alpha stage product.
You can't release a "module" of a game (which is essentially a small demo), and then expect people to wait indefinitely for the rest of the product while you continue to sell them virtual goods for something that doesn't exist. Smart is right about this. His points are all valid and the fact is that he has done nothing other than tell people to ask questions and raises concerns that have been "non-answered" by the development team. What they're doing at best looks suspicious, and at most malicious.
You can't compare games that have already released either. The scope of Star Citizen is NOTHING like that of ESO or any MMO ever released for that matter. What he's claiming to be offering is the moon, the stars, and the world (literally within all these "modules"). Does that not sound far-fetched to anyone else? Being as no game has ever done this, even those with over $100 million from AAA experienced development companies... Doesn't that seem unlikely? Shouldn't you be asking more questions about where your money is going and when you're going to get what you've been promised?
Maybe Smart's games are the worst thing since E.T. on the Atari, but that doesn't mean his points aren't valid. Argue against those... if you can...
How is bashing Derek Smart's games a legitimate argument for what Roberts and his company are doing? Even if everything Smart has ever made is terrible and you don't like it, how does that change any of the facts about Star Citizen that he has put forward? Can't you argue against his points, or are you just trying to discredit him based on what you perceive to be the quality of his work?
This argument in this thread just doesn't make any sense. Even if he doesn't make very good games (and I have no idea because I've never played a single one), he still knows about the gaming industry, and what it takes on the technical side to make these games. There are several people in the gaming industry that have similar knowledge and would probably agree with him on his assessment. There are also a LOT of backers who stand on his side and feel that there is a massive lack of transparency, and a real concern about the fact that they have yet to deliver even an alpha stage product.
You can't release a "module" of a game (which is essentially a small demo), and then expect people to wait indefinitely for the rest of the product while you continue to sell them virtual goods for something that doesn't exist. Smart is right about this. His points are all valid and the fact is that he has done nothing other than tell people to ask questions and raises concerns that have been "non-answered" by the development team. What they're doing at best looks suspicious, and at most malicious.
You can't compare games that have already released either. The scope of Star Citizen is NOTHING like that of ESO or any MMO ever released for that matter. What he's claiming to be offering is the moon, the stars, and the world (literally within all these "modules"). Does that not sound far-fetched to anyone else? Being as no game has ever done this, even those with over $100 million from AAA experienced development companies... Doesn't that seem unlikely? Shouldn't you be asking more questions about where your money is going and when you're going to get what you've been promised?
Maybe Smart's games are the worst thing since E.T. on the Atari, but that doesn't mean his points aren't valid. Argue against those... if you can...
+1 great write.... it's literally what any sane person would be thinking.
also he did in another thread.. and basically just used smear tactics to try and discredit everything... it was ridiculous to read.
How is bashing Derek Smart's games a legitimate argument for what Roberts and his company are doing? Even if everything Smart has ever made is terrible and you don't like it, how does that change any of the facts about Star Citizen that he has put forward? Can't you argue against his points, or are you just trying to discredit him based on what you perceive to be the quality of his work?
This argument in this thread just doesn't make any sense. Even if he doesn't make very good games (and I have no idea because I've never played a single one), he still knows about the gaming industry, and what it takes on the technical side to make these games. There are several people in the gaming industry that have similar knowledge and would probably agree with him on his assessment. There are also a LOT of backers who stand on his side and feel that there is a massive lack of transparency, and a real concern about the fact that they have yet to deliver even an alpha stage product.
You can't release a "module" of a game (which is essentially a small demo), and then expect people to wait indefinitely for the rest of the product while you continue to sell them virtual goods for something that doesn't exist. Smart is right about this. His points are all valid and the fact is that he has done nothing other than tell people to ask questions and raises concerns that have been "non-answered" by the development team. What they're doing at best looks suspicious, and at most malicious.
You can't compare games that have already released either. The scope of Star Citizen is NOTHING like that of ESO or any MMO ever released for that matter. What he's claiming to be offering is the moon, the stars, and the world (literally within all these "modules"). Does that not sound far-fetched to anyone else? Being as no game has ever done this, even those with over $100 million from AAA experienced development companies... Doesn't that seem unlikely? Shouldn't you be asking more questions about where your money is going and when you're going to get what you've been promised?
Maybe Smart's games are the worst thing since E.T. on the Atari, but that doesn't mean his points aren't valid. Argue against those... if you can...
THIS EXACTLY.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
this warley person obviously works for SC prob in the marketing dept, but even still Warls.. Warly. Warlly. Warlman. Walter. Listen. You trying to discredit Dsmart because he "makes unsuccessful games" will not change the reality of the situation. People are not that stupid..people ARE stupid but in general not THAT stupid to not see what this is and has become. Look at the actual situation. Millions of dollars, charging people LOTS of $ for alpha access to alpha assets, where has the money gone, all they have to show is a half ass module unfinished....etc. those are the issues at hand.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Are we using Derek Smart now as a scapegoat a crutch?
Do you really think people question this operation because of Derek Smart's recent comments?
I question many things of this operation but Derek Smart had NOTHING to do with it.
As far as his past,i laugh at that past ,NOTHING he made even remotely crossed me as being good.
When i was in my gaming prime,i bought tons of games like i have literally over a thousand games,guess what ..NONE of them are by this guy.I have been PC gaming since we had to make boot floppy disks,so you would think one of his games would have moved me over time but nope,nothing.
Even if you look at his brother,the ONLY notables are the ones using known IP brands.So were they actually good products or just using notable titles to make sales?
When someone posted that pole yesterday of those wanting at least a CHOICE of a refund,i lol@ that community.If you don't have the common sense to at least want a CHOICE ,then you deserve to get a crap game from all of this.Instead the majority said ,no i don't want a choice ..../facepalm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by mbrodie You have serious mental issues, creating thread after thread.. far out.
Another ad hominem attack.
You mean, like your post's regarding DS?
Have you actually countered any point's he raised?, or were you too busy attacking him personally, and white knighting SC....
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
Roberts' 'critically acclaimed' games came when he was safely in the cocoon of support provided by Origin Systems. On his own, at Digital Anvil, he created.....Nothing. No in-house games released. After his fiscal mismanagement there, it took a Microsoft buyout and years of extra money and work to get Freelancer out.
And good luck at finding a 'critically acclaimed' production among his movie resume. Or even a particularly profitable one.
He still have made some really great games.
I am suspicious myself over selling ships very expensively in a game that so far doesn't exist but that doesn't mean Roberts is incomepetent.
SC should still be 2 years or so in the future and their buseless model is far from good but Roberts is still one of the more competent people making a MMO right now.
Sure, some people have sunk way too much money into a game they never played and no matter how good the game will be at launch are we going the hear a nerd rage of never before seen magnitude.
All that does not make the game vaporware, expecting it to release now would put it on a time table with Cryptics games like STO and CO and we don't want that. Don't give them any money you can't risk losing and give them time to make a good game instead of hastily release som crap.
Lets complain if the game sucks by the time of the open beta, or if it hasn't released 3 years from now.
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
I don't disagree about the OP, he obviously has a larger agenda here, yet I do have to ask though, what's the difference between White Knighting and Black Knighting? IF that's what you want to call a person standing in defense of SC, why not attack those repeatedly railing against SC in the same manner by calling them Black-knights? It's just always funny to me to see those who want to jump in with this type of statement (it happens for every game), hardly ever go after those who are essentially the opposite end of the same coin.
I mean if it's not okay to defend a game, why is it okay to rail against it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
I don't disagree about the OP, he obviously has a larger agenda here, yet I do have to ask though, what's the difference between White Knighting and Black Knighting? IF that's what you want to call a person standing in defense of SC, why not attack those repeatedly railing against SC in the same manner by calling them Black-knights? It's just always funny to me to see those who want to jump in with this type of statement (it happens for every game), hardly ever go after those who are essentially the opposite end of the same coin.
I mean if it's not okay to defend a game, why is it okay to rail against it?
the only point i've made is the same seems like it's being mismanaged and they need to be held accountable.
more transparency / being forthcoming and answering the concerns of it's backers.
At no point have i tried to smear / badmouth the development team / game at all.
Due to
* 85 million in funds
* 2.5 years in development
* Fairly large team
* Only one charged module alpha released which is in no way anywhere near the scope of what the game is supposed to be
* The only other module has been delayed indefinitely.
so nothing i've said is to discredit the game at all, just pointing out the facts and that there needs to be better management / transparency / accountability.
if i start parsonally attacking them and their work, sure feel free to call me out.
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
I don't disagree about the OP, he obviously has a larger agenda here, yet I do have to ask though, what's the difference between White Knighting and Black Knighting? IF that's what you want to call a person standing in defense of SC, why not attack those repeatedly railing against SC in the same manner by calling them Black-knights? It's just always funny to me to see those who want to jump in with this type of statement (it happens for every game), hardly ever go after those who are essentially the opposite end of the same coin.
I mean if it's not okay to defend a game, why is it okay to rail against it?
the only point i've made is the same seems like it's being mismanaged and they need to be held accountable.
more transparency / being forthcoming and answering the concerns of it's backers.
At no point have i tried to smear / badmouth the development team / game at all.
Due to
* 85 million in funds
* 2.5 years in development
* Fairly large team
* Only one charged module alpha released which is in no way anywhere near the scope of what the game is supposed to be
* The only other module has been delayed indefinitely.
so nothing i've said is to discredit the game at all, just pointing out the facts and that there needs to be better management / transparency / accountability.
if i start parsonally attacking them and their work, sure feel free to call me out.
I wasn't saying you are, so my apology if it came off that way, I just see this a lot around here, seemed a fitting occasion to share my thought on that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
I don't disagree about the OP, he obviously has a larger agenda here, yet I do have to ask though, what's the difference between White Knighting and Black Knighting? IF that's what you want to call a person standing in defense of SC, why not attack those repeatedly railing against SC in the same manner by calling them Black-knights? It's just always funny to me to see those who want to jump in with this type of statement (it happens for every game), hardly ever go after those who are essentially the opposite end of the same coin.
I mean if it's not okay to defend a game, why is it okay to rail against it?
the only point i've made is the same seems like it's being mismanaged and they need to be held accountable.
more transparency / being forthcoming and answering the concerns of it's backers.
At no point have i tried to smear / badmouth the development team / game at all.
Due to
* 85 million in funds
* 2.5 years in development
* Fairly large team
* Only one charged module alpha released which is in no way anywhere near the scope of what the game is supposed to be
* The only other module has been delayed indefinitely.
so nothing i've said is to discredit the game at all, just pointing out the facts and that there needs to be better management / transparency / accountability.
if i start parsonally attacking them and their work, sure feel free to call me out.
I wasn't saying you are, so my apology if it came off that way, I just see this a lot around here, seemed a fitting occasion to share my thought on that.
oh no i agree, there is a lot of black / white knighting, i'm not one to call someone out on it though, personally i think if someone really enjoys a game more power to them... But OP keeps saying he has no vested interest in the game / doesnt want to play it / isnt affiliated, but continues to bash on DS for some reason. So it seemed fitting
oh no i agree, there is a lot of black / white knighting, i'm not one to call someone out on it though, personally i think if someone really enjoys a game more power to them... But OP keeps saying he has no vested interest in the game / doesnt want to play it / isnt affiliated, but continues to bash on DS for some reason. So it seemed fitting
Fair enough reasoning, like I said I don't disagree even as a person who railed against DS in the thread on the subject, there's a time and place where it might be fitting, making multiple threads to do it is quite bizarre/nonsensical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm sorry but 30 percent of the Backers wanting their money back is not a small rowdy group. It is almost 1/3 of your support and would probably cripple CIG snd RSI's attempts to put the game out.
A lie that does not become any more true by repeating it.
with the question "Would you like there to be a publically available refund process now, given this latest development?" and out of the 1173 participants 25.15 % voted YES and 74.85 % voted NO.
The result from this poll was then intentionally used wrong to imply that 30% of the backers wanted a refund.
Who wants to play a game of "Spot the people who donated to Kickstarter and bought super expensive ships"? It's eerily easy to play. People aren't worried about the delays. They aren't worried about how long it's been in development. What people ARE worried about is no game play footage after this long. Hell, even EQ Next had gameplay footage by this point. They are worried about the insane skill and feature creep. Every update, something new is added that is completely tertiary to the gameplay overall, and that feature will no doubt need more features and skills to use, which seem to with this company, cascade into even more features. This would be amazing, if we as consumers had any actual gameplay to look at. Without that footage, we are left to wonder if the game itself even exists or if they are just too busy planning and implementing things to create a working game. PS: this fella has done nothing on his own. He only had success while with Origin, which afforded him infinitely more resources.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra Who wants to play a game of "Spot the people who donated to Kickstarter and bought super expensive ships"? It's eerily easy to play. People aren't worried about the delays. They aren't worried about how long it's been in development. What people ARE worried about is no game play footage after this long. Hell, even EQ Next had gameplay footage by this point. They are worried about the insane skill and feature creep. Every update, something new is added that is completely tertiary to the gameplay overall, and that feature will no doubt need more features and skills to use, which seem to with this company, cascade into even more features. This would be amazing, if we as consumers had any actual gameplay to look at. Without that footage, we are left to wonder if the game itself even exists or if they are just too busy planning and implementing things to create a working game. PS: this fella has done nothing on his own. He only had success while with Origin, which afforded him infinitely more resources.
Go ahead - ignore a few thousand gameplay videos of Star Citizen on Youtube, made available by gamers.
Comments
I thought Tribes Ascend was fun. Firefall was fun for a minute. Got bored of World of Warcraft within two weeks.
Not all game releases will be 'fun' or turn out 'as people envision them' here. Star Citizen may end up as the greatest game of all time or it could end up being a pile of trash that people find boring, or lose its luster in a week.
However, Derek Smart has yet to release a successful MMO. Alganon, a game he has didn't build himself and was rather bad, was a game that he executed a hostile takeover to boot David Allen out of (who actually led the development of it from start to release; who basically did the heavy lifting). it's reasonable to believe that part of Derek Smart's comments (and based upon how narcissistic the guy is) that he may even believe he has some chance to actually step in and take over Star Citizen. Hire an independent executive producer? Derek Smart boasts about the fact that he's the 'oldest' indie game developer... I would not put it past the guy.
Line of Defense will be his first MMO that he led dev on from start to finish(if you can even call it that) and it's already being panned with 'Mostly Negative' reviews.
People affiliated with Derek Smart/3000AD in some way on Steam were caught posting Metacritic reviews giving Line of Defense Tactics a high score.
Derek Smart's announcement of Line of Defense (including release date):
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/02/02/3000ad-announces-line-of-defense/
Put that in perspective as he bashes CIG for missing their original release date by eight or so months. He missed his by three years, according that article. And, even the original Star Citizen game scope was more advanced than Line of Defense...
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
PLEASE TELL ME WHICH OF THESE GAMES CHARGED PEOPLE FOR ASSETS IN A UNFINISHED GAME NOT JUST CHARGE BUT OVERPRICE WITH SOME ASSETS COSTING IN THE $1000'S EASY?????? SMH PAID ALPHA?? WTF?
You can dislike Dsmart all you want bruh but this dude has a valid point and its not hard to see the greed in this company already.. but if you want to be blind to it more power to you.. I know personally i'm not paying over $60 and i'm def not paying for a alpha test and im not paying hundreds, or thousands of dollars for anything to do with this game or any other its crazy and greedy. FOH = Fuck outta here.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Another ad hominem attack.
Were you aware of the Arena Commander videos on Youtube that showcase the vaporware project known as Star Citizen? Do they kinda shatter your position?
Please tell me the part in which any of the backers were forced to buy those assets and were given a guarantee that a product would be launched? With all indications still pointing a product still in full development, and not what a very small 'minority' of people suffering from Dunning-Kruger Effects are saying?
Why do people keep saying this? A poll asking if people want the ability to receive refunds, is not exactly the same thing as people saying they want a refund, they're saying they'd welcome the option if they wanted a refund. Was it also representative of everyone who backed the game? I highly doubt that as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
yep another person ignoring the subject at hand.. this will be easy.
So what you are saying is people who get robbed through bank heists are at fault because they chose to put their money in the BANK??
your logic is ass backwards mate. NO they didnt have to do it, but they did and there is little accountability for where their money went. If there is no foul play then SC should be transparent and end all this drama.. what are they hiding for if they arent doing anything wrong?
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
You realise Arena Commander is an instanced dog fighting simulator and nothing more.
Of which is still an Alpha Module (not even the whole game)
Of which you need to pay $60 to get access too (again, alpha module not even the whole game.. $60 for 1 instanced dog fighting map)
Of which you also need to buy ships ontop of it (again, alpha ships, for an alpha module of 1 instanced dog fighting map)
and thats all they have to show after 2 and a half years and $85 million in crowdfunding.
How is bashing Derek Smart's games a legitimate argument for what Roberts and his company are doing? Even if everything Smart has ever made is terrible and you don't like it, how does that change any of the facts about Star Citizen that he has put forward? Can't you argue against his points, or are you just trying to discredit him based on what you perceive to be the quality of his work?
This argument in this thread just doesn't make any sense. Even if he doesn't make very good games (and I have no idea because I've never played a single one), he still knows about the gaming industry, and what it takes on the technical side to make these games. There are several people in the gaming industry that have similar knowledge and would probably agree with him on his assessment. There are also a LOT of backers who stand on his side and feel that there is a massive lack of transparency, and a real concern about the fact that they have yet to deliver even an alpha stage product.
You can't release a "module" of a game (which is essentially a small demo), and then expect people to wait indefinitely for the rest of the product while you continue to sell them virtual goods for something that doesn't exist. Smart is right about this. His points are all valid and the fact is that he has done nothing other than tell people to ask questions and raises concerns that have been "non-answered" by the development team. What they're doing at best looks suspicious, and at most malicious.
You can't compare games that have already released either. The scope of Star Citizen is NOTHING like that of ESO or any MMO ever released for that matter. What he's claiming to be offering is the moon, the stars, and the world (literally within all these "modules"). Does that not sound far-fetched to anyone else? Being as no game has ever done this, even those with over $100 million from AAA experienced development companies... Doesn't that seem unlikely? Shouldn't you be asking more questions about where your money is going and when you're going to get what you've been promised?
Maybe Smart's games are the worst thing since E.T. on the Atari, but that doesn't mean his points aren't valid. Argue against those... if you can...
+1 great write.... it's literally what any sane person would be thinking.
also he did in another thread.. and basically just used smear tactics to try and discredit everything... it was ridiculous to read.
infact here is the link http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436781/page/1
THIS EXACTLY.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
this warley person obviously works for SC prob in the marketing dept, but even still Warls.. Warly. Warlly. Warlman. Walter. Listen. You trying to discredit Dsmart because he "makes unsuccessful games" will not change the reality of the situation. People are not that stupid..people ARE stupid but in general not THAT stupid to not see what this is and has become. Look at the actual situation. Millions of dollars, charging people LOTS of $ for alpha access to alpha assets, where has the money gone, all they have to show is a half ass module unfinished....etc. those are the issues at hand.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
OP tsk tsk
Are we using Derek Smart now as a scapegoat a crutch?
Do you really think people question this operation because of Derek Smart's recent comments?
I question many things of this operation but Derek Smart had NOTHING to do with it.
As far as his past,i laugh at that past ,NOTHING he made even remotely crossed me as being good.
When i was in my gaming prime,i bought tons of games like i have literally over a thousand games,guess what ..NONE of them are by this guy.I have been PC gaming since we had to make boot floppy disks,so you would think one of his games would have moved me over time but nope,nothing.
Even if you look at his brother,the ONLY notables are the ones using known IP brands.So were they actually good products or just using notable titles to make sales?
When someone posted that pole yesterday of those wanting at least a CHOICE of a refund,i lol@ that community.If you don't have the common sense to at least want a CHOICE ,then you deserve to get a crap game from all of this.Instead the majority said ,no i don't want a choice ..../facepalm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You mean, like your post's regarding DS?
Have you actually countered any point's he raised?, or were you too busy attacking him personally, and white knighting SC....
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
too busy attacking and white knighting / regurgitating overused smear tactics with no real substance. he has literally not given one worthwhile rebuttal just keeps repeating the same things over and over again, which had actually lead me todo the same now also.
He still have made some really great games.
I am suspicious myself over selling ships very expensively in a game that so far doesn't exist but that doesn't mean Roberts is incomepetent.
SC should still be 2 years or so in the future and their buseless model is far from good but Roberts is still one of the more competent people making a MMO right now.
Sure, some people have sunk way too much money into a game they never played and no matter how good the game will be at launch are we going the hear a nerd rage of never before seen magnitude.
All that does not make the game vaporware, expecting it to release now would put it on a time table with Cryptics games like STO and CO and we don't want that. Don't give them any money you can't risk losing and give them time to make a good game instead of hastily release som crap.
Lets complain if the game sucks by the time of the open beta, or if it hasn't released 3 years from now.
I don't disagree about the OP, he obviously has a larger agenda here, yet I do have to ask though, what's the difference between White Knighting and Black Knighting? IF that's what you want to call a person standing in defense of SC, why not attack those repeatedly railing against SC in the same manner by calling them Black-knights? It's just always funny to me to see those who want to jump in with this type of statement (it happens for every game), hardly ever go after those who are essentially the opposite end of the same coin.
I mean if it's not okay to defend a game, why is it okay to rail against it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
the only point i've made is the same seems like it's being mismanaged and they need to be held accountable.
more transparency / being forthcoming and answering the concerns of it's backers.
At no point have i tried to smear / badmouth the development team / game at all.
Due to
* 85 million in funds
* 2.5 years in development
* Fairly large team
* Only one charged module alpha released which is in no way anywhere near the scope of what the game is supposed to be
* The only other module has been delayed indefinitely.
so nothing i've said is to discredit the game at all, just pointing out the facts and that there needs to be better management / transparency / accountability.
if i start parsonally attacking them and their work, sure feel free to call me out.
I wasn't saying you are, so my apology if it came off that way, I just see this a lot around here, seemed a fitting occasion to share my thought on that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
oh no i agree, there is a lot of black / white knighting, i'm not one to call someone out on it though, personally i think if someone really enjoys a game more power to them... But OP keeps saying he has no vested interest in the game / doesnt want to play it / isnt affiliated, but continues to bash on DS for some reason. So it seemed fitting
Fair enough reasoning, like I said I don't disagree even as a person who railed against DS in the thread on the subject, there's a time and place where it might be fitting, making multiple threads to do it is quite bizarre/nonsensical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A lie that does not become any more true by repeating it.
There IS no desired refund rate of 30 %.
There was a poll on the RSI forum
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/271799/are-refunds-for-our-packages-ships-from-cig-now-okay-to-be-requested
with the question "Would you like there to be a publically available refund process now, given this latest development?" and out of the 1173 participants 25.15 % voted YES and 74.85 % voted NO.
The result from this poll was then intentionally used wrong to imply that 30% of the backers wanted a refund.
Have fun
Go ahead - ignore a few thousand gameplay videos of Star Citizen on Youtube, made available by gamers.
Only takes 5 seconds with Google.
Have fun