Originally posted by lugal I said this in the other mega-thread, but Chris needs to get a gameplay video out there quickly. By this time, they have to have a part of the core game that they can quickly show us being played. If they did this. It would go a long way to help silence critics, haters, and the supporters.
I was not very clear, in my first comment in the mega-thread, I stated that they need to show us something that has not already been released. So people can get a sense of progress.
If you are actually interested in what they are working on then go to the website and look at the crazy amount of news posts on it. Maybe watch a few episodes of "around the verse" where they tell you exactly whats going on?
Originally posted by lugal I said this in the other mega-thread, but Chris needs to get a gameplay video out there quickly. By this time, they have to have a part of the core game that they can quickly show us being played. If they did this. It would go a long way to help silence critics, haters, and the supporters.
I was not very clear, in my first comment in the mega-thread, I stated that they need to show us something that has not already been released. So people can get a sense of progress.
If you are actually interested in what they are working on then go to the website and look at the crazy amount of news posts on it. Maybe watch a few episodes of "around the verse" where they tell you exactly whats going on?
Then that will shatter their narrative of Star Citizen being a scam... we don't want that now do we? It's better that they grab the pitchforks so they can burn the place down to make room for Derek Smart's ego to pass through and become CEO so we can see how someone 'REALLY' squanders $85 million.
"At GDC Online Roberts also announced a program to bring his devotees and other interested parties much closer to the development process. A crowd funding site has been posted at www.robertsspaceindustries.com to help raise the necessary funds for completing development of the project. “Our purpose today,” said Roberts, “is to allow our fans to join us in this process early. It will likely be another two years before the full product is ready for release, but early backers will be able to play a version of the game a year from now."
Clearly not a quote from C. Roberts in October 2012 in that link, they made it up, Illuminati confirmed.
When I read quotes like this, I can't help but smile...
So fresh and naive and filled with enthusiasm ! Little did he know then that the path ahead would be a long and arduous one, filled with challenges and setbacks. I'm sure that unrealistic promise was made on the strength of his ample experience with building single-player games, because in 2012 CR had no experience of MMO development whatsoever afaik.
I'm sure that promised date was rescheduled at a later date, but I'll leave it to someone else to retrieve that little slice of info. It's great fun putting on blinkers and looking at only a narrow segment of history, isn't it ?
When I read quotes like that I think of project management failures.
Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
Why do you think that there isn't? There is.
The problem is that the developers are ignoring and the authorities are looking to the other side.
But there is.
While the developer is making the game in the standard, without changing too much scope and just having usual issues, you can consider them doing ok and do not require accountability. But in the moment that they start to do (what Roberts is doing), then you can require that.
The problem is, that developers are not recognizing that. Are abusing.
At this case only a lawsuit will set this thing right.
And that is exactly the move that Federal Trade Comission started to do since the last year.
Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
Why do you think that there isn't? There is.
The problem is that the developers are ignoring and the authorities are looking to the other side.
But there is.
While the developer is making the game in the standard, without changing too much scope and just having usual issues, you can consider them doing ok and do not require accountability. But in the moment that they start to do (what Roberts is doing), then you can require that.
The problem is, that developers are not recognizing that. Are abusing.
At this case only a lawsuit will set this thing right.
And that is exactly the move that Federal Trade Comission started to do since the last year.
What is Chris Roberts doing and please provide the proof. Not some 'instincts' or 'hunch'. PROOF.
Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The biggest issue I have is the funds being taken, combined with the blatent cash raking with things like ships being sold. That is where my feelings about the game is very uneasy. It seems far to ambitious in its money raking over anything else.
Originally posted by Purutzil The biggest issue I have is the funds being taken, combined with the blatent cash raking with things like ships being sold. That is where my feelings about the game is very uneasy. It seems far to ambitious in its money raking over anything else.
But that's pretty much the norm in every game today, sadly.
Originally posted by Purutzil The biggest issue I have is the funds being taken, combined with the blatent cash raking with things like ships being sold. That is where my feelings about the game is very uneasy. It seems far to ambitious in its money raking over anything else.
But that's pretty much the norm in every game today, sadly.
I can't think of a single other example of a company selling virtual goods (ships in this case) for literally thousands of dollars.
Star Citizen is being developed by a professional that has numerous years of highly acclaimed releases that begins with Wing Commander. Now, if I were to look at the leader behind Star Citizen and seen a profile like say James Proctor or Jason Appleton's then I'd question things. However, Chris Roberts has a history of not only creating games, but also releasing those games to CRITICAL ACCLAIM.
Derek Smart has NEVER released a successful MMO. Derek Smart has never led the development of a game that has received high praised from the gaming community or media. You guys are following someone that honestly doesn't have the expertise to weigh in on a massive project such as Star Citizen. Look at Line of Defense and Star Citizen, and if you still think Derek Smart has some credibility here then you should donate money to build that bridge in Alaska.
But, let's follow Derek Smart, a self-admitted troll.
Some perspective:
Star Citizen has been in development for 2 1/2 to 3 years. World of Warcraft was in development for 5 years; Darkfall was in development for 8 years; Guild Wars 1, far less complicated game, was in development for roughly the same length as Star Citizen has been.
Derek Smart has been working on his MMO space game for what seems like over a decade.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take the reasonable approach here.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Do you have proof that Star Citizen is ponzi scheme or scam?
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What is Chris Roberts doing and please provide the proof. Not some 'instincts' or 'hunch'. PROOF.
Molineuxing, but worst. Cashing abusively in the process. If Molineux got a bad rep, here you have an idea of what is the rep of Roberts at this point.
But you know... the way that you call me in capital letters for PROOF.
Maybe I should ban you and get your stuff back for that.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
Well.. There are several evidences that they could be scamming people.
You can "explain" all that. But I can explain all that as a reason for scamming people too.
In the end of the day, CIG could prove that they are not. But they refused, changed a clause, which made the whole thing even approach more as they deceiving people than been honest.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
Never ending crowdfunding being used to pay either:
Waste, probably.
Fraud, doubt it.
Feature creep, yes.
Combination of 1 thru 3 combined.
20 million game completion budget per Mr. Roberts with 85 million raised.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
Well.. There is several evidences that they could be scamming people.
You can "explain" all that. But I can explain all that as a reason for scamming people too.
In the end of the day, CIG could prove that they are not. But they refused, changed a clause, which made the whole thing even approach more as they deceiving people than been honest.
Or maybe they just don't want people panic.
There's a reason why you'll ask for proof and cry once it's provided: you have no idea what goes into the development of an MMO when you get past 'client', 'server, 'networking', 'database', and 'graphics engine'.
So, what appears to be to you a useless component because you don't understand what it does could be a component that had countless hours poured into it with revisions made or the need to scrap to create an improved version.
I have yet to see anyone here post in favor of Derek Smart or against CIG, when it comes to the technological side, that has displayed any meaningful level of knowledge in regards to the meat and bones of MMO development. NONE.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
Never ending crowdfunding being used to pay either:
Waste, probably.
Fraud, doubt it.
Feature creep, yes.
Combination of 1 thru 3 combined.
20 million game completion budget per Mr. Roberts with 85 million raised.
Resources creeped from 20 million to 85 million so feature creep bad...
Yes, it's standard practice for backers to "buy" the final version of a Kickstarter-funded game at the point where they pledge for the campaign. Nothing unusual about that in the slightest.
Didn't you know that ?
Or are you implying that games should not be allowed to be funded via Kickstarter ?
Nope. Devs just must to comprehend the reality of the market, how the gamers think, in order to do not force them for too long in the process... (or force them to crazy expenses making everyone look to them as a joke). And they also must to be committed, by the force of the law, to respect their advertised promises, which includes the text, interviews, any material that they deliver to possible buyers or current ones (in case of providing new services or new stuff on sales).
This is all a legal obligation of any business (particularly in Untied States). And it does not matter that 'its crowd-funded".
There is no such thing of "easy" mode. Some devs are moving to crowd-funding and abusing of what they really can do using this alternative.
And that is basically the case of Star Citizen, one of the best, if not the best example of abuse, lack of respect with customers and with the law.
Yes, it's standard practice for backers to "buy" the final version of a Kickstarter-funded game at the point where they pledge for the campaign. Nothing unusual about that in the slightest.
Didn't you know that ?
Or are you implying that games should not be allowed to be funded via Kickstarter ?
Nope. Devs just must to comprehend the reality of the market, how the gamers think, in order to do not force them for too long in the process... (or force them to crazy expenses making everyone look to them as a joke). And they also must to be committed, by the force of the law, to respect their advertised promises, which includes the text, interviews, any material that they deliver to possible buyers or current ones (in case of providing new services or new stuff on sales).
This is all a legal obligation of any business (particularly in Untied States). And it does not matter that 'its crowd-funded".
There is no such thing of "easy" mode. Some devs are moving to crowd-funding and abusing of what they really can do using this alternative.
And that is basically the case of Star Citizen, one of the best, if not the best example of abuse, lack of respect with customers and with the law.
All assertions, with 'assumptions' or 'gut feelings' being presented as proof, with that being born from ignorance.
Also CGI is doing something no other developer has ever done in game design. Personally I sense some jealousy here from Mr Smart. He has no talent when it comes to game design from my view point and so attacks those that does have talent.
Also CGI is doing something no other developer has ever done in game design. Personally I sense some jealousy here from Mr Smart. He has no talent when it comes to game design from my view point and so attacks those that does have talent.
Tread lightly for you've entered the realm of arguments from ignorance. ;/
This thread is hilarious. It is attacking the messenger cause they don't like the message. ROFL! !
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Backers were asking for accountability way before Derek Smart made it front page news.
It's just that now with the doors blown wide open it's a big deal. If Derek Smart hadn't blogged anything, CIG would still be ignoring the backers that were asking the same exact questions as he did on CIGs own forums. Now it's on the front page of every gaming website and they have to deal with it.
I don't care if Derek's a rival, every one of his games tanked or even if he was a transvestite. The questions he's asking are what counts. They are the right questions. 90 million is a shit-ton of money, all donated towards a game where no-one has any idea of whats going on except what they're spoon feeding you.
You can watch their videos and read their blog, but nothing that anyone really wants to hear about is ever talked about.
Comments
If you are actually interested in what they are working on then go to the website and look at the crazy amount of news posts on it. Maybe watch a few episodes of "around the verse" where they tell you exactly whats going on?
Then that will shatter their narrative of Star Citizen being a scam... we don't want that now do we? It's better that they grab the pitchforks so they can burn the place down to make room for Derek Smart's ego to pass through and become CEO so we can see how someone 'REALLY' squanders $85 million.
When I read quotes like that I think of project management failures.
So basically what we have here is another I hate Derek Smart thread.
I don't care about Smart and I don't care about Star Citizen. But the bottom line is with crowd funding there is NO accountability for the money. With normal traditional development the developers are accountable to their sources of funding but in crowd funding it being just donations then anyone getting money in this method is not accountable. This needs to change and there needs to be some form of accountability.
Why do you think that there isn't? There is.
The problem is that the developers are ignoring and the authorities are looking to the other side.
But there is.
While the developer is making the game in the standard, without changing too much scope and just having usual issues, you can consider them doing ok and do not require accountability. But in the moment that they start to do (what Roberts is doing), then you can require that.
The problem is, that developers are not recognizing that. Are abusing.
At this case only a lawsuit will set this thing right.
And that is exactly the move that Federal Trade Comission started to do since the last year.
What is Chris Roberts doing and please provide the proof. Not some 'instincts' or 'hunch'. PROOF.
No accountability to people that can shut a mismanaged, over budget product down. Why do you think they went the crowdfunding way? it's Bernie Madoff game development, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
But that's pretty much the norm in every game today, sadly.
I can't think of a single other example of a company selling virtual goods (ships in this case) for literally thousands of dollars.
Do you have proof that Star Citizen is ponzi scheme or scam?
I don't believe that it's a scam. Just an unfair practice, abusive that will be shut down by FTC, if they persist.
What is it that leads you to believe such? It's getting interesting watching some of you at work, in one thread you're going on and on about peoples opinions about Derek Smart. in another you're completely tearing down and outright demonizing the folks at CIG.. Out right claiming they're in fact scamming people. Without presenting any kind of evidence of such. All any one has done to Smart is question his intention..You think that's worse than what you're doing here? As I said, interesting...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Molineuxing, but worst. Cashing abusively in the process. If Molineux got a bad rep, here you have an idea of what is the rep of Roberts at this point.
But you know... the way that you call me in capital letters for PROOF.
Maybe I should ban you and get your stuff back for that.
Well.. There are several evidences that they could be scamming people.
You can "explain" all that. But I can explain all that as a reason for scamming people too.
In the end of the day, CIG could prove that they are not. But they refused, changed a clause, which made the whole thing even approach more as they deceiving people than been honest.
Or maybe they just don't want people panic.
Never ending crowdfunding being used to pay either:
There's a reason why you'll ask for proof and cry once it's provided: you have no idea what goes into the development of an MMO when you get past 'client', 'server, 'networking', 'database', and 'graphics engine'.
So, what appears to be to you a useless component because you don't understand what it does could be a component that had countless hours poured into it with revisions made or the need to scrap to create an improved version.
I have yet to see anyone here post in favor of Derek Smart or against CIG, when it comes to the technological side, that has displayed any meaningful level of knowledge in regards to the meat and bones of MMO development. NONE.
That...
should...
be...
your...
first...
clue.
Resources creeped from 20 million to 85 million so feature creep bad...
I'll spell this out for you:
You...
are...
arguing...
from...
ignorance.
Nope. Devs just must to comprehend the reality of the market, how the gamers think, in order to do not force them for too long in the process... (or force them to crazy expenses making everyone look to them as a joke). And they also must to be committed, by the force of the law, to respect their advertised promises, which includes the text, interviews, any material that they deliver to possible buyers or current ones (in case of providing new services or new stuff on sales).
This is all a legal obligation of any business (particularly in Untied States). And it does not matter that 'its crowd-funded".
There is no such thing of "easy" mode. Some devs are moving to crowd-funding and abusing of what they really can do using this alternative.
And that is basically the case of Star Citizen, one of the best, if not the best example of abuse, lack of respect with customers and with the law.
All assertions, with 'assumptions' or 'gut feelings' being presented as proof, with that being born from ignorance.
This is Derek Smarts latest game
Looks a bit like a budgeted B class Star Citizen
Now look at a gameplay trailer of SC
Also CGI is doing something no other developer has ever done in game design. Personally I sense some jealousy here from Mr Smart. He has no talent when it comes to game design from my view point and so attacks those that does have talent.
Tread lightly for you've entered the realm of arguments from ignorance. ;/
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
If you use a message to take over ANOTHER company and kick out ANOTHER CEO/creator of a game,
then yes, the messenger does not get a warm reception.
Have fun
Backers were asking for accountability way before Derek Smart made it front page news.
It's just that now with the doors blown wide open it's a big deal. If Derek Smart hadn't blogged anything, CIG would still be ignoring the backers that were asking the same exact questions as he did on CIGs own forums. Now it's on the front page of every gaming website and they have to deal with it.
I don't care if Derek's a rival, every one of his games tanked or even if he was a transvestite. The questions he's asking are what counts. They are the right questions. 90 million is a shit-ton of money, all donated towards a game where no-one has any idea of whats going on except what they're spoon feeding you.
You can watch their videos and read their blog, but nothing that anyone really wants to hear about is ever talked about.