Because there is no just cause for him to share his personal business with anyone. There is no requirement, and there should not be, that a private business or person have to justify or make their private dealings transparent. Why should they? Someone should have to prove a need for that first.
Eh, I would submit that playing with millions of dollars of people's money, given to you in good faith, is warrant enough for transparency.
But this is where we are with crowdfunding, such a double-edged sword. And if CR is really worried about the damage such claims could do to the project and company.. Isn't that need enough for him to provide just enough transparency to prove the claims false?
So where do we draw the line? How much money is too much? Who gets to decide what projects are investigated and what they have to make public to their competition? Who gets to sit in judgement? Who is paying for that oversight?
Why are large money crowd funded projects more subject to arbitrary scrutiny than established businesses? We have game companies like Blizzard raking in billions gouging customers for hundreds of dollars in annual rental fees and returning very little. Is that any less predatory? Why aren't they subject to scrutiny and regulation for fair business practices?
Why are non-crowd funded private business that have big money private investors given the edge over crowd funded projects that are expected to make their entire business strategy public. Doesn't it seem reasonable that competitors, Derek Smart among them, wouldn't like to know how and what that competition is doing?
Saying they should be transparent because a lot of money is involved sounds very reasonable and fair at first, but there are a lot of questions because it's complicated. No one wants to deal with the complex so we go for the simple answers - they should be transparent.
You seem to be implying I asked for full transparency of all matters relating to CIG. Not at all. The acceptable response is the least amount of transparency needed to refute claims the game is in trouble of not being made. Honestly, a simple show of good progress would be all that's needed. The gist of the article seems to indicate progress is stunted by gross mismanagement to the point of threatening the project in its entirety (I don't keep up with the specifics of SC, so I will refrain from attempting to cite anything specific coming from either camp). You don't need a full quarterly spending report to refute those claims effectively. You just need to show that progress is being made at a reasonably acceptable pace for the money being spent.
And once you refute this claim, the public (and, more importantly, your contributer base) becomes much more reluctant to believe any future claims of doom and gloom. Which, coincidently, is the reason Blizzard isn't under such scrutiny; not only is the company already presenting a full product that folks can use their own judgement on to determine it's worth to them, but they have a track record, as a company, of delivering quality products.
I have no doubt if Blizzard did a Kickstarter that pulled in millions, there would be naysayers. Only, they would gain no traction because Blizzard has shown a consistent record of delivering on promises. CIG has no such record, no such stable of released products. Sure, some employees may have worked on released products.. But that just isn't the same, unfortunately. Not when you've raked in record numbers in a new and untested (for MMORPGs) form of media investment.
CR and CIG are setting precedent for such large (financially speaking) KS projects here. If they didn't expect this kind of scrutiny, this kind of passionate discourse, they were foolishly blind. And all that's needed to end it (and set a good precedent that could assist future KS projects in gaining traction) is providing just enough transparency to say "hey, here's very real progress being made with YOUR donations, and here's a tentative plan for further, specific progress items over the next X months." And by that, I would submit that screenshots and paragraphs of text are not enough.
You know without a doubt? Well...That says it all really. That's basically saying you're incapable of being mistaken.
Not at all-
man, I dont want to get off topic here- I'm the 'King' of mistakes, bro. I am totally capable of being wrong and often find myself wrong. I'm wrong so much it hurts lol.
But heres the thing- I learn I am wrong at some point and move on. I dont hold onto my theory or what i believe to be fact once new information comes forth that shows me the error in my thinking.
I am hoping I am wrong every single day. But every single day nothing is coming forth that changes my opinion- In fact my opinion is strengthened all the time. At this point I KNOW i'm right on this issue.
Now- That doesnt mean I dont think SC is going to kick out a 'game'. Unlike many on my 'side' I dont think we'll have lawsuits (we're not a hivemind...) because I think CR knows that 'something wicked this way comes' if he doesnt cobble some buggy ass shit together and call it a day or offload the company somehow. There are many unknowns and 'what ifs'but there are also some pretty major certainties as well.
Sorry to off topic- I dont WANT to go off topic and im helping the whole 'redirect the conversation' tactic lol
Fair enough. I wasn't saying it wasn't a respectable cause to follow, if folks like yourself help in uncovering underhanded practices that's commendable.. I can respect that, just don't let hubris get in the way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sure is funny watching all the finger pointing. Even the people defending Chris Roberts have to see what is obviously happening here. 261 employees is a huge clue. It is 38 studios all over again.
If it weren't so sad that he has scammed so many people, I would get a real laugh out of this. Reminds me of all the shenanigans that went on during the Vanguard project in Carlsbad, seems that Braid McQuaid has a compatriot in Chris Roberts.
Sure is funny watching all the finger pointing. Even the people defending Chris Roberts have to see what is obviously happening here. 261 employees is a huge clue. It is 38 studios all over again.
If it weren't so sad that he has scammed so many people, I would get a real laugh out of this. Reminds me of all the shenanigans that went on during the Vanguard project in Carlsbad, seems that Braid McQuaid has a compatriot in Chris Roberts.
Yeah, SC has been like watching a car crash in slow motion, with all the same morbid intrigue. Problem is that it was kinda obvious the car wasn't roadworthy a long time ago. Can I extend this metaphor any further? And the road (KS) was still under construction. I think stretched it too far.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
I used to check out The Escapist website on occasion but I am done with them now. That was a truly awful piece of 'journalism' and I hope they get sued.
Speaking of getting sued, it would be nice to see Derek Smart get sued for everything he owns for being a part of this mess. Thing is, the only thing he owns is a legacy of horrendous games so what's the point?
I appreciated Chris Robert's extremely long and well thought out response. All the naysayers and keyboard warriors that have posted negative trash in threads like this one. They will be the same people that will be enjoying Star Citizen when it releases and telling everybody how they were one of the first people to back the project and supported it all the way!
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Wait, are you saying they somehow created false links to counter an article 2 days+ before the article was written and therefore had no reason to create?
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Wait, are you saying they somehow created false links to counter an article 2 days+ before the article was written and therefore had no reason to create?
I'll take it further than that. What I am saying is that if anyone is so naive to believe that with all of the tens of millions of dollars given to RSI/CiG, that they have not unleashed an army of shills and PR experts to spread misinformation throughout the various social media outlets in an attempt to confuse, deflect and obfuscate the matter and bring remedy to this crisis, then you are truly naive. These are intelligent people. They have their ways. It's going to get a lot uglier.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Wait, are you saying they somehow created false links to counter an article 2 days+ before the article was written and therefore had no reason to create?
I'll take it further than that. What I am saying is that if anyone is so naive to believe that with all of the tens of millions of dollars given to RSI/CiG, that they have not unleashed an army of shills and PR experts to spread misinformation throughout the various social media outlets in an attempt to confuse, deflect and obfuscate the matter in an attempt to bring remedy to this crisis, then you are truly naive. These are intelligent people. They have their ways.
Great news! Someone does have a time machine then...I hope I can borrow it I'd love to change a couple investments I made a decade ago!
Because mate, you are literally arguing someone went back in time to make posts to damage control an article after said article was posted...yah
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a very bad spin on him and the project and the best way for CR to shed positive light on this is to show more then a hanger or a walk around/walk through of a ship, he needs to show real game play and I think he also needs to show some proof of the money.
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Actually the escapist story was BS as most of us thought. They have already been caught. Read the post two posts before yours and check the links.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Wait, are you saying they somehow created false links to counter an article 2 days+ before the article was written and therefore had no reason to create?
I'll take it further than that. What I am saying is that if anyone is so naive to believe that with all of the tens of millions of dollars given to RSI/CiG, that they have not unleashed an army of shills and PR experts to spread misinformation throughout the various social media outlets in an attempt to confuse, deflect and obfuscate the matter in an attempt to bring remedy to this crisis, then you are truly naive. These are intelligent people. They have their ways.
Great news! Someone does have a time machine then...I hope I can borrow it I'd love to change a couple investments I made a decade ago!
Because mate, you are literally arguing someone went back in time to make posts to damage control an article after said article was posted...yah
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Seems that we are truly naive
Fuck those CIG guys are ruthless. Watch out for your cats!
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Seems that we are truly naive
Fuck those CIG guys are ruthless. Watch out for your cats!
wait....how did you know I have cats.... I'm watching you buddy :P
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Regardless of what he said - Do you not agree CIG will not let this go unchallenged unless it were true?
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
What I am saying is that you are making assumptions without knowing the entire story. The journalist wrote the story based on information provided by unnamed sources. Irrespective of any information provided on those links, if the incidents mentioned in the story are real, and later proven to be true by unnamed sources, then all of the information provided by so called "sleuths" in those links, though coincidental, would be proven to be totally irrelevant. There is a lot of shady stuff going on, TOS have been changed, information denied or omitted and later proven true (Gardiner being CR's wife) etc. Like I said, you SC/CR supporters can keep defending the indefensible all you want, but this hasn't gone away, it isn't going to go away, and it only gets worse with time. If there was nothing to this, it would just go away. But its not doing that. It just keeps coming back and it will continue to linger because truth always prevails.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Regardless of what he said - Do you not agree CIG will not let this go unchallenged unless it were true?
No. I believe they will likely do whatever they think will cost them less money, as most businesses do.
Is Roberts ripping everyone off? Maybe, maybe not. But this has put a v
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
Thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
Except for the part where that is exactly what he said. See bold above. Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story. He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article. They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Regardless of what he said - Do you not agree CIG will not let this go unchallenged unless it were true?
No. I believe they will likely do whatever they think will cost them less money, as most businesses do.
If someone on a Worldwide gaming news website accused me of 1/10th of whats been put forth in that article (note: I own a tiny spec of a business funded originally through bank) it would destroy me and I would have it redacted and possibly sue for damages since thats alot of damage. and a fairly easy case- Unless you know the person is speaking the truth.
Anyone would. A legal letter could have that redacted unless they arent prepared for proof to be brought forth and would rather play to the crowd...funding.
No. I believe they will likely do whatever they think will cost them less money, as most businesses do.
If someone on a Worldwide gaming news website accused me of 1/10th of whats been put forth in that article (note: I own a tiny spec of a business funded originally through bank) it would destroy me and I would have it redacted and possibly sue for damages since thats alot of damage. and a fairly easy case- Unless you know the person is speaking the truth.
Anyone would. A legal letter could have that redacted unless they arent prepared for proof to be brought forth and would rather play to the crowd...funding.
They aren't going to sue and that is telling in and of itself. If they ever decided to sue all hell would break lose with the biggest losers being RSI/CiG/CR themselves. Look, they know they're engaging in malfeasance. Only the truly gullible and naive believes otherwise.
Comments
And once you refute this claim, the public (and, more importantly, your contributer base) becomes much more reluctant to believe any future claims of doom and gloom. Which, coincidently, is the reason Blizzard isn't under such scrutiny; not only is the company already presenting a full product that folks can use their own judgement on to determine it's worth to them, but they have a track record, as a company, of delivering quality products.
I have no doubt if Blizzard did a Kickstarter that pulled in millions, there would be naysayers. Only, they would gain no traction because Blizzard has shown a consistent record of delivering on promises. CIG has no such record, no such stable of released products. Sure, some employees may have worked on released products.. But that just isn't the same, unfortunately. Not when you've raked in record numbers in a new and untested (for MMORPGs) form of media investment.
CR and CIG are setting precedent for such large (financially speaking) KS projects here. If they didn't expect this kind of scrutiny, this kind of passionate discourse, they were foolishly blind. And all that's needed to end it (and set a good precedent that could assist future KS projects in gaining traction) is providing just enough transparency to say "hey, here's very real progress being made with YOUR donations, and here's a tentative plan for further, specific progress items over the next X months." And by that, I would submit that screenshots and paragraphs of text are not enough.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If it weren't so sad that he has scammed so many people, I would get a real laugh out of this. Reminds me of all the shenanigans that went on during the Vanguard project in Carlsbad, seems that Braid McQuaid has a compatriot in Chris Roberts.
Not even your attempts at guessing my gender.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I know it is a private business, but the money has been given to him in good faith and some serious acquisitions have been leveled against him and the company. He needs to show this and not continue lashing out at others, that is just making himself & his company look even worse.
Speaking of getting sued, it would be nice to see Derek Smart get sued for everything he owns for being a part of this mess. Thing is, the only thing he owns is a legacy of horrendous games so what's the point?
I appreciated Chris Robert's extremely long and well thought out response. All the naysayers and keyboard warriors that have posted negative trash in threads like this one. They will be the same people that will be enjoying Star Citizen when it releases and telling everybody how they were one of the first people to back the project and supported it all the way!
In before the hypocrisy.
P.S.
I just bought an Endeavor.
Except those links are BS propaganda released in an attempt to counter the article. If you are of the belief that those are legit and not specifically released by RSI/CiG crisis management personnel to counter the article, then you are truly naive.
I'll take it further than that. What I am saying is that if anyone is so naive to believe that with all of the tens of millions of dollars given to RSI/CiG, that they have not unleashed an army of shills and PR experts to spread misinformation throughout the various social media outlets in an attempt to confuse, deflect and obfuscate the matter and bring remedy to this crisis, then you are truly naive. These are intelligent people. They have their ways. It's going to get a lot uglier.
Someone does have a time machine then...I hope I can borrow it I'd love to change a couple investments I made a decade ago!
Because mate, you are literally arguing someone went back in time to make posts to damage control an article after said article was posted...yah
he's saying there is a ton of shit going on and lots of money changing hands for damage control...Perhaps even minimizing the damage before its been done .
regardless, we will see. If they redact it, its a bullshit story. If not, theres something seriously wrong CIG.
See bold above.
Someone asks him to check links and in said links are posts created days before the story.
He then declares that the links are BS propoganda released to counter the article.
They were created before the article and therefore aren't a reaction to it.
Fuck those CIG guys are ruthless. Watch out for your cats!
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I'm watching you buddy :P
What I am saying is that you are making assumptions without knowing the entire story. The journalist wrote the story based on information provided by unnamed sources. Irrespective of any information provided on those links, if the incidents mentioned in the story are real, and later proven to be true by unnamed sources, then all of the information provided by so called "sleuths" in those links, though coincidental, would be proven to be totally irrelevant. There is a lot of shady stuff going on, TOS have been changed, information denied or omitted and later proven true (Gardiner being CR's wife) etc. Like I said, you SC/CR supporters can keep defending the indefensible all you want, but this hasn't gone away, it isn't going to go away, and it only gets worse with time. If there was nothing to this, it would just go away. But its not doing that. It just keeps coming back and it will continue to linger because truth always prevails.
I believe they will likely do whatever they think will cost them less money, as most businesses do.
Anyone would. A legal letter could have that redacted unless they arent prepared for proof to be brought forth and would rather play to the crowd...funding.
They aren't going to sue and that is telling in and of itself. If they ever decided to sue all hell would break lose with the biggest losers being RSI/CiG/CR themselves. Look, they know they're engaging in malfeasance. Only the truly gullible and naive believes otherwise.