Star Citizen, Holiday Sale (aka Sale 2.0)

Distopia

Uhwop said:

Or do you guys not realize that after 20 plus years the one thing CR has been consistent about is that he's a bad investment? 

He didn't crowdfund because he thought it was the smart way to go, it's because no one would invest in him after 20 years of showing that he's more likely to lose money than to make you money, and that's what investors look for. 

In business, you do not invest in someone who has a habit of making less than they're given.  The man has a history of not making investors money. 

The same could be said about a few of the individuals seeking crowdfunding at present. At least based on the same type of deduction.

Erillion

Uhwop said:

He didn't crowdfund because he thought it was the smart way to go, it's because no one would invest 

IMHO:
No one invested because all investors believed that multi-platform compatible versions of sequels of existing IPs and genres was the way to go. Which led to self censure and self castration in the gaming industry. 


Have fun

Brenics

There is still no proof of 104m made. That could very well be part of the whole marketing scheme just to try and get more people to give. Like I said the New Year is going to be very interesting.

jcrg99

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

I dont think you understand yet. What I have been saying 'should' be understood in one word.


Titanfall.

do you know what I mean by that one word?

Not really. Please explain.

TitanFall is a game that promised a ton and delivered basically none of it.

Titanfall story is extremely common in the gaming industry.

if someone says 'I am going to fly to the moon by flapping my hands' do you really except to be surprised that it doesnt happen? is that something you really need to base a case on by saying 'yeah but he said he could' if you say that everyone is going to look at you as if you are just as mad as he is.

The problem in this case however 'doing it in 2 years' does NOT equal 'not ever doing it'

OF COURSE its reasonable to assume that he will not get something done sooner than average DESPITE what he says and to surrender your ability of deductive reasoning simply because a moron says something is being silly.

Titanfall is not a crowdfunded game and is not targeted for a niche of hardcore gamers, at least, not a tiny one. It's a console game. The Star Citizen scenario does not match with those that you are trying to imply that because worked for them, will work for Star Citizen. They "worked" because they were not niche and they did not have the same level of crap marketing along years of development that SC have. They did not even approach to the SC level of ridiculousness and effort to burn as more consumers as possible in the ride.

Turrican187

SEANMCAD said:

Titanfall.

Titanfall ... wasn't this scrapped by blizzard because the community had too much expectations?

Daikuru

Turrican187 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Titanfall.

Titanfall ... wasn't this scrapped by blizzard because the community had too much expectations?

No. That was Titan (codename).

Distopia

jcrg99 said:

Titanfall is not a crowdfunded game and is not targeted for a niche of hardcore gamers, at least, not a tiny one. It's a console game. The Star Citizen scenario does not match with those that you are trying to imply that because worked for them, will work for Star Citizen. They "worked" because they were not niche and they did not have the same level of crap marketing along years of development that SC have. They did not even approach to the SC level of ridiculousness.

You say this as if SC has been in some development limbo for a decade..

SEANMCAD

Turrican187 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Titanfall.

Titanfall ... wasn't this scrapped by blizzard because the community had too much expectations?

no Titanfall is an Electronic Arts game that (like many AAA games) got hyped out the A to unbelieable levels and then what was actually deployed was nothing like what was promised.

Point being, if you dont have the consumer acumen to filter on what is PRODUCED rather than what is SAID then you barely have the intellectual acumen to be having a conversation on this topic

Erillion

Brenics said:

There is still no proof of 104m made. That could very well be part of the whole marketing scheme just to try and get more people to give. Like I said the New Year is going to be very interesting.

Let me guess - some people leave CIG in 2016 (which is normal in the gaming industry and most other industries too) and some anonymous sources will post something bad about CIG on Glassdoor ?! Sprinkle in some doom and gloom "The End is near" propaganda claiming that all the money has been spend and/or has been hidden in Swiss bank accounts by Sandi Gardiner. 

Then Derek Smart will forge his latest conspiracy theory / hate harangue out of this. Which you will channel as always. 

Chris Roberts will take longer than he expects ... about as long as his fans expected (minimum 5 years).

In short - business as usual. 


Have fun 

jcrg99

SEANMCAD said:

Point being, if you dont have the consumer acumen to filter on what is PRODUCED rather than what is SAID then you barely have the intellectual acumen to be having a conversation on this topic

Interesting point of view. So, since you have such intellectual acumen, why you claim that this game, in the state that is now is going to be delivered as promised in 1 years or 2 years? You were pretty much adamant about that in the other day, despite claiming your neutrality.

Maybe they shown to you something that they did not show to the rest of the public? Or wouldn't that be just words... statements about a foundation that actually cannot really be felt in practice, considering the feature set that this game promised to have... So... well... that would mean that you have an intellectual problem

P.S: By the way. It's a crowdfunded game. It's a deal, to produce a game with a feature set that convinced people to pledge, different people, convinced by different set of features and putting a lot of money on it. Just to start to suffer from a painful path and actions that contradicts the speech of the company of "saviors".
It's a different relationship and, in time you will learn, with different/major impacts, considering the things been done by CIG and the public that their game is targeted for. You can consider a flawed campaign as ok and put the guilty in the shoulders of consumers. That is pretty much nonsense and it does not help crowdfunding to grow as it should.

GrumpyHobbit

Erillion said:

Brenics said:

There is still no proof of 104m made. That could very well be part of the whole marketing scheme just to try and get more people to give. Like I said the New Year is going to be very interesting.

Let me guess - some people leave CIG in 2016 (which is normal in the gaming industry and most other industries too) and some anonymous sources will post something bad about CIG on Glassdoor ?! Sprinkle in some doom and gloom "The End is near" propaganda claiming that all the money has been spend and/or has been hidden in Swiss bank accounts by Sandi Gardiner. 

Then Derek Smart will forge his latest conspiracy theory / hate harangue out of this. Which you will channel as always. 

Chris Roberts will take longer than he expects ... about as long as his fans expected (minimum 5 years).

In short - business as usual. 


Have fun 

But...but...what about all the people that don't work for SC, who have no investment in the game, are not game developers and like to moan about all the stuff they have no clue on...is it still business as usual for them

Brenics

Erillion said:

Brenics said:

There is still no proof of 104m made. That could very well be part of the whole marketing scheme just to try and get more people to give. Like I said the New Year is going to be very interesting.

Let me guess - some people leave CIG in 2016 (which is normal in the gaming industry and most other industries too) and some anonymous sources will post something bad about CIG on Glassdoor ?! Sprinkle in some doom and gloom "The End is near" propaganda claiming that all the money has been spend and/or has been hidden in Swiss bank accounts by Sandi Gardiner. 

Then Derek Smart will forge his latest conspiracy theory / hate harangue out of this. Which you will channel as always. 

Chris Roberts will take longer than he expects ... about as long as his fans expected (minimum 5 years).

In short - business as usual. 


Have fun 

It is funny how DS is brought up when anyone says there is no proof of this 104m. Sorry buddy but it has nothing to do with DS but reality and in our reality anyone can put up a web site stating they have this much money yet nothing to back it up with.

Seelinnikoi

I am still digesting the notion "limited quantity" copy pasta digital items... 

SpottyGekko

Brenics said:

There is still no proof of 104m made. That could very well be part of the whole marketing scheme just to try and get more people to give. Like I said the New Year is going to be very interesting.

Steady now, big fella...

If you carry on with this line of thought, soon you'll be accusing CR of stealing money that never actually existed in the first place !

Best to pick one line of fantasy and stick with it. That way, there's far less chance of confounding yourself...

SEANMCAD

jcrg99 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Point being, if you dont have the consumer acumen to filter on what is PRODUCED rather than what is SAID then you barely have the intellectual acumen to be having a conversation on this topic

Interesting point of view. So, since you have such intellectual acumen, why you claim that this game, in the state that is now is going to be delivered as promised in 1 years or 2 years? 

I'M NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

which is the point.

'its to early to say' means EXACTLY that 'it's to early to say.

That is what I have been saying over and over and over and over and over and over again.

No matter what CR says its Still to early to say given average dev times

jcrg99

Brenics said:

Sprinkle in some doom and gloom "The End is near" propaganda

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

I know that this kind of material is great for clicks but you also have to remember that we are talking about the jobs of 261 people and numerous contractors. Every time a game studio shuts down every outlet and commenter is quick to lament the state of the game industry.


Signed: Chris Roberts (an article and of course, Derek Smart, are capable to destroy a 100 million dollars project and making 261 people lose their jobs... so much for confidence in his own project... and well... doom and gloom propaganda from his side of course)

Uhwop

Distopia said:

Uhwop said:

Or do you guys not realize that after 20 plus years the one thing CR has been consistent about is that he's a bad investment? 

He didn't crowdfund because he thought it was the smart way to go, it's because no one would invest in him after 20 years of showing that he's more likely to lose money than to make you money, and that's what investors look for. 

In business, you do not invest in someone who has a habit of making less than they're given.  The man has a history of not making investors money. 

The same could be said about a few of the individuals seeking crowdfunding at present. At least based on the same type of deduction.

Which is why you shouldn't invest in the "project", you invest in the people behind the project. 
Which is why I think it's stupid to give CR money.  The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value. 

You don't step into a cage with a  wild bear, because you know they bite.  Why are people throwing money at a guy who is known to be a bad investment.  Because he made a generic game several decades ago that was popular? 

The only thing CR has demonstrated a talent for is getting people to pay him to be bad at producing things; over, and over, and over again. 

It's crazy to me that so many people expect this guy to be able to do something he's demonstrated time and again that's he's simply incapable of doing.  There's a serious lack of rational thinking going on here. 

But then, if this wasn't the norm there wouldn't be a saying about a fool and his money, would there. 

Distopia

Uhwop said:

Distopia said:

Uhwop said:

Or do you guys not realize that after 20 plus years the one thing CR has been consistent about is that he's a bad investment? 

He didn't crowdfund because he thought it was the smart way to go, it's because no one would invest in him after 20 years of showing that he's more likely to lose money than to make you money, and that's what investors look for. 

In business, you do not invest in someone who has a habit of making less than they're given.  The man has a history of not making investors money. 

The same could be said about a few of the individuals seeking crowdfunding at present. At least based on the same type of deduction.

Which is why you shouldn't invest in the "project", you invest in the people behind the project. 
Which is why I think it's stupid to give CR money.  The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value. 

You don't step into a cage with a  wild bear, because you know they bite.  Why are people throwing money at a guy who is known to be a bad investment.  Because he made a generic game several decades ago that was popular? 

The only thing CR has demonstrated a talent for is getting people to pay him to be bad at producing things; over, and over, and over again. 

It's crazy to me that so many people expect this guy to be able to do something he's demonstrated time and again that's he's simply incapable of doing.  There's a serious lack of rational thinking going on here. 

But then, if this wasn't the norm there wouldn't be a saying about a fool and his money, would there. 

I don't really disagree at all, I also agree I'm not a fan of the games he made in the past. I"m certainly not coming at this debate from an "I support CR and Star Citizen" perspective. IF SC is half of what it's promised to be I'd def check it out though.

SEANMCAD

Distopia said

I don't really disagree at all, I also agree I'm not a fan of the games he made in the past. I"m certainly not coming at this debate from an "I support CR and Star Citizen" perspective. IF SC is half of what it's promised to be I'd def check it out though.

fair warning any position of 'moderation', 'wait and see attitude' or even somewhat the appearance of defending SC on any of the number of issues in question will be seen as a fanboy for SC.

blutigfaust

They needed Chrsitmas bonus for everyone !!!!!    looks like they got it  o.o

SpottyGekko

Uhwop said:

.  

Which is why I think it's stupid to give CR money.  The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value. 

... 

Would you care to link some references to support this allegation ?


PS: Is it just this time of the year, or am I imagining that there's waaay more crazy in this thread than usual ?

Distopia

SEANMCAD said:

Distopia said

I don't really disagree at all, I also agree I'm not a fan of the games he made in the past. I"m certainly not coming at this debate from an "I support CR and Star Citizen" perspective. IF SC is half of what it's promised to be I'd def check it out though.

fair warning any position of 'moderation', 'wait and see attitude' or even somewhat the appearance of defending SC on any of the number of issues in question will be seen as a fanboy for SC.

HAHA

Uhwop

Distopia said:

Uhwop said:

Distopia said:

Uhwop said:

Or do you guys not realize that after 20 plus years the one thing CR has been consistent about is that he's a bad investment? 

He didn't crowdfund because he thought it was the smart way to go, it's because no one would invest in him after 20 years of showing that he's more likely to lose money than to make you money, and that's what investors look for. 

In business, you do not invest in someone who has a habit of making less than they're given.  The man has a history of not making investors money. 

The same could be said about a few of the individuals seeking crowdfunding at present. At least based on the same type of deduction.

Which is why you shouldn't invest in the "project", you invest in the people behind the project. 
Which is why I think it's stupid to give CR money.  The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value. 

You don't step into a cage with a  wild bear, because you know they bite.  Why are people throwing money at a guy who is known to be a bad investment.  Because he made a generic game several decades ago that was popular? 

The only thing CR has demonstrated a talent for is getting people to pay him to be bad at producing things; over, and over, and over again. 

It's crazy to me that so many people expect this guy to be able to do something he's demonstrated time and again that's he's simply incapable of doing.  There's a serious lack of rational thinking going on here. 

But then, if this wasn't the norm there wouldn't be a saying about a fool and his money, would there. 

I don't really disagree at all, I also agree I'm not a fan of the games he made in the past. I"m certainly not coming at this debate from an "I support CR and Star Citizen" perspective. IF SC is half of what it's promised to be I'd def check it out though.

I'll check it out as well.  I just find it hilarious that there are people out there that expect the game to be...something other than anyone who thinks rationally should ever expect. 

After all, we are talking about a guy who tried to make this game once already, and failed.  Who after 4 years and over a hundred million dollars is releasing things people are calling "tech demos", and those same people think the game is going to release a year from now in some state that will actually be something even remotely close to the game that's being pitched to them. 

Considering what they have to test today, to think it'll be even half of what is promised a year from now just doesn't seem reasonable.  It'll be something all right, just not what CR is trying to sell. 

Erillion

Uhwop said:

 The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value.  

Except for several Hall of Fame titles ;-) 


Have fun

Uhwop

Erillion said:

Uhwop said:

 The guy has a well known history of taking peoples money and not delivering anything of value.  

Except for several Hall of Fame titles ;-) 


Have fun

Several? 


PS:  I don't think you know who you invested in.  What you did was invested in nostalgia. 
Please, tell us all about his successes after wing commander.