Star Citizen, Holiday Sale (aka Sale 2.0)

GrumpyHobbit

With 100 mil in the bank I guess they can afford to hire a few lawyers to follow up on defamation of character suits against whinny forum posters who make statements like "yes it is a scam" without any substantive evidence and I for one hope it happens because it would make me laugh.

SEANMCAD

rodarin said:

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

SpottyGekko said:

 Nothing concrete has come from all the noise on the interwebz, which is not really all that surprising, lol

Nothing concrete has come from CIG and their fan noise too. One year late. Four years and counting.

To be fair game development on average is 4 years.

I am not defending SC I am just saying  there are a few items people should take into consideration

Dont use excuses from the past to defend these guys, especially when it contradicts what they have said themselves.

.

no Fs given on 'what they said'

If a guy comes to me and says 'I can build you a car in 1 day' I know already from the start that its likely they are full of it. However, to judge them before that day is even done is a bit silly.

If they can create more of a car (even if incomplete) in less time then average then they are very good at what they are doing DESPITE the words that come out of their mouth which by the way is something I could not care less about

Distopia

rodarin said:

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

SpottyGekko said:

 Nothing concrete has come from all the noise on the interwebz, which is not really all that surprising, lol

Nothing concrete has come from CIG and their fan noise too. One year late. Four years and counting.

To be fair game development on average is 4 years.

I am not defending SC I am just saying  there are a few items people should take into consideration

Dont use excuses from the past to defend these guys, especially when it contradicts what they have said themselves.

Holy crap... this is just ridiculous... so in other words, don't judge it based on how long games generally take to be completed... (games with much smaller focus at that)... Judge it based on sensationalism and accusations... that's the logical approach of course.lmao..

03cobradude

Why do you hate the game/concept so much jcrg99? Every post you have about SC is negative. I'm just trying to figure out why you spend so much time on the hate wagon. I get voicing your opinions, but this I don't get. Did they wrong you in some way that you can not forgive? My thing is, if you don't like the game than don't play/buy into it. It's only been 3 years most games take around 5 to complete unless you have a shit ton of people working on it. Even then, I don't know of any mmo that has taken 3 years to build successfully.

You have to look at the systems they need to create in order to get the game working the way we all want it to be. All those systems need to play with each other nicely or it will be a buggy mess. So of course, this is going to take a while to make, and I'm a patient person. Not only am I patient, but I have a life outside of games that keeps my plenty occupied.  Not going to worry about it and not going to buy anymore spaceships. Just got to know why you like bashing SC so much?

SEANMCAD

Distopia said:

rodarin said:

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

SpottyGekko said:

 Nothing concrete has come from all the noise on the interwebz, which is not really all that surprising, lol

Nothing concrete has come from CIG and their fan noise too. One year late. Four years and counting.

To be fair game development on average is 4 years.

I am not defending SC I am just saying  there are a few items people should take into consideration

Dont use excuses from the past to defend these guys, especially when it contradicts what they have said themselves.

Holy crap... this is just ridiculous... so in other words, don't judge it based on how long games generally take to be completed... (games with much smaller focus at that)... Judge it based on sensationalism and accusations... that's the logical approach of course.lmao..

he wants to judge daddy on what daddy says not on what daddy does.

Which is unfortunate.

Turrican187

jcrg99 said:

rodarin said:

I suspect many of them are Euros and there will eventually be a lawsuit brought, so I am surprised that thread has been allowed to exist for as long as it has.

CIG support the attitude. They built a new marketing plan entirely focused on milking these guys more, as revealed by Sandi Gardiner one of these days. And they don't have any shame of saying that, but of course, quickly bringing those worthless disclaimers, like if changed the reality that its a clear exploitation of addiction, way above reasonably levels.
[...]

As I mentioned before, Sandi is working on a collectors edition (whatever that means BTW) of S42 - They will make all backers to buy S42 again. If they are using industry standard it will be 100$ (maybe 60$ upgrade). If they are greedy it will be something 150$+.
I expect them to launch the sale end of January. With this sale they will separate the S42 from the PU packages so that future buyers have to pay for each gamemode as standalone.

Mensur

Man- I will try to control my self now- and not use foul language, but this is just sad. Get your Jpgs why they last- I mean come on, donate that cash to people in need- wait for release and get your ships- these "sale" scams are one of the reasons i deeply hate Chris. That man is laughing all the way to the bank. 

p.s: I know he does cocain! Check his last presentation 

sgel

GrumpyHobbit said:

With 100 mil in the bank I guess they can afford to hire a few lawyers to follow up on defamation of character suits against whinny forum posters who make statements like "yes it is a scam" without any substantive evidence and I for one hope it happens because it would make me laugh.

Yeah free speech is nasty isn't it!

I sure as hell hope CIG hire lawyers and sue forum posters! It almost gave me a hard-on when Ortwyn threatened to sue The Escapist! I'm sure he'll follow through with that!!
CIG is here to show us the alternative to all the nasty publisher practises after all!

SEANMCAD

sgel said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

With 100 mil in the bank I guess they can afford to hire a few lawyers to follow up on defamation of character suits against whinny forum posters who make statements like "yes it is a scam" without any substantive evidence and I for one hope it happens because it would make me laugh.

Yeah free speech is nasty isn't it!

I sure as hell hope CIG hire lawyers and sue forum posters! It almost gave me a hard-on when Ortwyn threatened to sue The Escapist! I'm sure he'll follow through with that!!
CIG is here to show us the alternative to all the nasty publisher practises after all!

'The SC trolls make their predictions true by making the legal costs of SC so high its impossible to make the game'

so says the headlines in a few years

rodarin

What they have said and what they have done...BOTH have fallen short, despite the fact that they have raised about 5 times as much money as they said they would need to to make the game.

people can spin it and play all the semantics games they want, but if a guy said they could build you a car in a day (24 hours, to use an analogy used here) and you gave them 125K to do it ( 5 times the average price of most cars these days) I would imagine it would be built, and they might even throw in some fuzzy dice. 

But I asked this question before and it got crickets so I will ask it again...

They have 'raised' 15 million in the past 3 months alone, if they continue to 'raise' 5 million a month for the next 6 months (bring the total 'raised' to around 135 million) what will the true believers expect? Quicker release? Better game? More content to tide them over? More ship jpegs?(for sale) An on schedule release of whatever they promised for 2016? A release that ran and was as good or better than a 'normal' release from a similar medium? All of the above? What if they do raise that money and there are still more delays, more ship sales, more broken promises, more crap that isnt made yet still being sold? Then what?

I expect more crickets because the true believers can never answer simple questions, they like every other sheep chooses to deflect and distract rater than address the actual issues.

GrumpyHobbit

rodarin said:

...they like every other sheep chooses to deflect and distract rater than address the actual issues.

Just curious but what are the issues?

I don't really follow the game but from what I can tell a game still in development is making some people who will NOT play the game jealous that it has raised over 100 mil from people who WILL play the game and are making lots of stuff up for fuck knows why.

I am really struggling to understand what the problem is other then idiots on the internet doing what they do best.

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

rodarin said:

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

SpottyGekko said:

 Nothing concrete has come from all the noise on the interwebz, which is not really all that surprising, lol

Nothing concrete has come from CIG and their fan noise too. One year late. Four years and counting.

To be fair game development on average is 4 years.

I am not defending SC I am just saying  there are a few items people should take into consideration

Dont use excuses from the past to defend these guys, especially when it contradicts what they have said themselves.

.

no Fs given on 'what they said'

If a guy comes to me and says 'I can build you a car in 1 day' I know already from the start that its likely they are full of it. However, to judge them before that day is even done is a bit silly.

If they can create more of a car (even if incomplete) in less time then average then they are very good at what they are doing DESPITE the words that come out of their mouth which by the way is something I could not care less about

If they say they can create a car in 1 day but it takes them 6 months I'm still not impressed. If you say 1 day you better well know you can do it in 1 day. I don't tell my bosses at work I can validate a method in 1 day when it can take up to a month cause something tells me they wouldn't be impressed that I was still able to get 1 days worth of data that is completely useless.

SEANMCAD

rodarin said:

What they have said and what they have done...BOTH have fallen short, despite the fact that they have raised about 5 times as much money as they said they would need to to make the game.

I think you somewhat miss the point.

Although you do have an underlining point which requires the assumption that consumers across the board (other than the minority of white nights of consumer rights protection) always and under no other circumstance believe 100% of what a seller says.

Reality is most of us know its BS, so instead we evaluate actual production compared to other options

SpottyGekko

rodarin said:

... 

But I asked this question before and it got crickets so I will ask it again...

They have 'raised' 15 million in the past 3 months alone, if they continue to 'raise' 5 million a month for the next 6 months (bring the total 'raised' to around 135 million) what will the true believers expect? ...

I would "expect" nothing.
I would hope that it would lead to some favourable outcome.
I would think that it made the chance of an eventual launch much more likely.

I would most certainly not expect that the launch date would miraculously be announced immediately.

If I had given CIG that $35M personally, the situation would be somewhat different. But it's not my money, so it's not my concern.

sgel

GrumpyHobbit said:

rodarin said:

...they like every other sheep chooses to deflect and distract rater than address the actual issues.

Just curious but what are the issues?

I don't really follow the game but from what I can tell a game still in development is making some people who will NOT play the game jealous that it has raised over 100 mil from people who WILL play the game and are making lots of stuff up for fuck knows why.

I am really struggling to understand what the problem is other then idiots on the internet doing what they do best.

If you haven't been following the game how do you know people who are "jealous" of the 100m are making stuff up? How do you know if fans of the game aren't making things up?

rodarin

GrumpyHobbit said:

rodarin said:

...they like every other sheep chooses to deflect and distract rater than address the actual issues.

Just curious but what are the issues?

I don't really follow the game but from what I can tell a game still in development is making some people who will NOT play the game jealous that it has raised over 100 mil from people who WILL play the game and are making lots of stuff up for fuck knows why.

I am really struggling to understand what the problem is other then idiots on the internet doing what they do best.

Its setting a standard that is already being felt. Look at Crowfall and their new 10K package, other games have also gone over board with these high level packages. But at least most of these companies have something to show for the money they have raised.

I guess the best way to describe it is DEGREE of game versus amount of money spent. A common ratio.

We know (or we know they CLAIM) to have raised 105 million dollars. We also know what the alpha 2 is (I still call it a tech demo because thats what it is) So that ratio is CLEARLY out of balance.

Now some people cite 'they didnt have 100 million all at once'. Which is true but they HAVE taken in 35 million a year (almost like clockwork) so they have had an extremely steady income to develop something.

Now do they have way more than they have shown? I say no, believers say yes. That is the one unknown neither of us can be certain of, and it is the crux of the main issue.

We both use the same knowledge to 'prove' completely opposing  viewpoints. Critics have way more ammunition, fans can cite the dollar figure raised. Which I said is MY main argument that that amount is a double edged sword. Because if it IS true there should be more, and a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT more. If it isnt true then the hopes of this game being much more than what it is now are almost zero. Because at this point sustaining the amount of people he has will cost almost as much as what they (claim) to raise every month. Again using the figures given by them themselves. So again it comes to ratio and degree of money spent versus what is being put into the game. If their pay roll is 3 million a month (their figures or someone associated with them) what is that 3 million getting them? Where are the results? Two weeks ago the guy couldnt even play his own game on live stream without it crashing so many times he gave up. He has gotten another 3 million in 'pledges' since then. That says it all to me.

I couldnt care less what happens but I hope what happens happens fast because the longer it goes the longer the precedence has to get set. So all these other over hyped games will start posting these ridiculous 5 figure (and I believe 6 figure within a year) packages to help them make their game. Games like Elyira, Gloria Victus and most obvious Pantheon all come to mind. Crowfalls I mentioned before has already done it.

But at his point the whole MMO landscape is just sad. Nothing worthy came out last year, and nothing really decent even in 2014, and 2016 looks like another waste (unless you want to call ARK an MMO) But a single game worth playing (opinion obviously) in a three year span is more than a drought. And having these sort of precedence set and stringing it along just means it will be that much monger before a correction takes place. At this point it might never get better. But then again thats the new age I guess, people are now completely satisfied in paying for everything and anything these guys can monetize, when just a couple years ago people freaked the F out when they thought ESO was 'selling' Imperial race (which they were). Oh and that game was basically made and at release stage when they did it.

SpottyGekko

GrumpyHobbit said:

I don't really follow the game but from what I can tell a game still in development is making some people who will NOT play the game jealous that it has raised over 100 mil from people who WILL play the game and are making lots of stuff up for fuck knows why.

I am really struggling to understand what the problem is other then idiots on the internet doing what they do best.

Fear not, you appear to have a perfectly clear grasp of the "problem" !

And a gift for beautifully succinct summaries...

Distopia

rodarin said:

What they have said and what they have done...BOTH have fallen short, despite the fact that they have raised about 5 times as much money as they said they would need to to make the game.

people can spin it and play all the semantics games they want, but if a guy said they could build you a car in a day (24 hours, to use an analogy used here) and you gave them 125K to do it ( 5 times the average price of most cars these days) I would imagine it would be built, and they might even throw in some fuzzy dice. 

But I asked this question before and it got crickets so I will ask it again...

They have 'raised' 15 million in the past 3 months alone, if they continue to 'raise' 5 million a month for the next 6 months (bring the total 'raised' to around 135 million) what will the true believers expect? Quicker release? Better game? More content to tide them over? More ship jpegs?(for sale) An on schedule release of whatever they promised for 2016? A release that ran and was as good or better than a 'normal' release from a similar medium? All of the above? What if they do raise that money and there are still more delays, more ship sales, more broken promises, more crap that isnt made yet still being sold? Then what?

I expect more crickets because the true believers can never answer simple questions, they like every other sheep chooses to deflect and distract rater than address the actual issues.

What exactly is anyone supposed to say to this? Other than, we'll cross that board when it is in front of us?

Personally if they raised enough to reach 200 mil, my expectations would remain the same, being I have no expectations (as usual for me)...

Delays are something any gaming consumer should expect or at least acknowledge as a possibility. 

Not sure what else to add, in short.. more money doesn't mean faster development... it doesn't mean problems will not arise, it does not solidify a release...

jcrg99

Distopia said:

Not sure what else to add, in short.. more money doesn't mean faster development... it doesn't mean problems will not arise, it does not solidify a release...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period


Signed: Chris Roberts.

Wizardry

You cannot call items you outright sell assets in a cash shop as content,that is very lame of Chris to even think that.

We used to all be in accordance with not accepting anything but fluff in cash shops,what has happened to our fellow gamer's over the last two years?

SEANMCAD

jcrg99 said:

Distopia said:

Not sure what else to add, in short.. more money doesn't mean faster development... it doesn't mean problems will not arise, it does not solidify a release...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period


Signed: Chris Roberts.

but again.

1. if standard development takes 4 years why would we realistically expect to see content within 2 years despite what CR says or doesnt say
2. welcome to the world of pretty much all consumer goods everywhere anywhere and throughout time. Shocker! what the manufacturer says and what can actually be delievered we all know is rarely ever the same thing

jcrg99

SEANMCAD said:

but again.

1. if standard development takes 4 years why would we realistically expect to see content within 2 years despite what CR says or doesnt say
2. welcome to the world of pretty much all consumer goods everywhere anywhere and throughout time. Shocker! what the manufacturer says and what can actually be delievered we all know is rarely ever the same thing

1. Because he is the man in charge of the project and looking into the big picture and stating the conditions that would make him accomplish or not his promise. As Kickstarter can imply innovation, I could argue that he could have a hidden tech that would make him doing something that others couldn't. You could assume that a veteran of the game industry, wouldn't come and give such objective statements and then simply ignore or lie about what said in the past, or stating something totally different when became convenient in the future. Seriously. If you said that Star Citizen would take 4 years a while ago, you would be considered the worst troll of all times. So! Heh! Welcome to the convenience of the excuses. In the end, just excuses. The fact remains. They failed to keep their promises, words and direct statements. And they are doing a business fully based on trust, or should be. Of course, trust they have none, so, they are now migrated to a business fully based on crazy addiction (confused as trust).

2. welcome to the world where companies (most of them) ended ruined due such behavior. Specially when they start and keep the behavior as part of their blood, without yet to produce anything worthy of a reputation. Specially when the target public is a niche. Watch and learn. And no. I am not shocked of they falling apart, not living to the expectations (because they created impossible ones) and thrown to the lions due all the challenges that they made and accusations against the game industry to pretend that they were all better and saviors. It is happening as I predicted...

Brenics

SpottyGekko said:

jcrg99 said:

SpottyGekko said:

 Nothing concrete has come from all the noise on the interwebz, which is not really all that surprising, lol

Nothing concrete has come from CIG and their fan noise too. One year late. Four years and counting.

I fully expect that SC will not launch before 2017.

May even take an extra year. Nothing amazing about that. Good stuff takes time...

Just to clarify, exactly what game can you point too that can back up "May even take an extra year. Nothing amazing about that. Good stuff takes time..."!

SEANMCAD

jcrg99 said:

SEANMCAD said:

but again.

1. if standard development takes 4 years why would we realistically expect to see content within 2 years despite what CR says or doesnt say
2. welcome to the world of pretty much all consumer goods everywhere anywhere and throughout time. Shocker! what the manufacturer says and what can actually be delievered we all know is rarely ever the same thing

1. Because he is the man in charge of the project and looking into the big picture and stating the conditions that would make him accomplish or not his promise. As Kickstarter can imply innovation, I could argue that he could have a hidden tech that would make him doing something that others couldn't. You could assume that a veteran of the game industry, wouldn't come and give such objective statements and then simply ignore or lie about what said in the past, or stating something totally different when became convenient in the future. Seriously. If you said that Star Citizen would take 4 years a while ago, you would be considered the worst troll of all times. So! Heh! Welcome to the convenience of the excuses. In the end, just excuses. The fact remains. They failed to keep their promises, words and direct statements. And they are doing a business fully based on trust, or should be. Of course, trust they have none, so, they are now migrated to a business fully based on crazy addiction (confused as trust).

2. welcome to the world where companies (most of them) ended ruined due such behavior. Specially when they start and keep the behavior as part of their blood, without yet to produce anything worthy of a reputation. Specially when the target public is a niche. Watch and learn.

but....but...

1. the pure physics of reality suggests to us that there will not be content within 2 years of a major project. no matter what the man in charge says and no matter how much he needs it. To be frank NOBODY should be surprised by this

2. Games that do very well in the industry if not MOST of the games that do well in the industry are wrapped up in Marketing garbage selling crappy games and they make millions doing it. welcome to gaming bro you act surprised..

jcrg99

SEANMCAD said:

but....but...

1. the pure physics of reality suggests to us that there will not be content within 2 years of a major project. no matter what the man in charge says and no matter how much he needs it. To be frank NOBODY should be surprised by this

2. Games that do very well in the industry if not MOST of the games that do well in the industry are wrapped up in Marketing garbage selling crappy games and they make millions doing it. welcome to gaming bro you act surprised..

1. Once again. You couldn't have the information to claim that what CR was saying was false. In fact, if you mentioned what you just said a while ago, you would be called a crazy naysayer by the "mature" community and by Roberts himself (not using these words, but he would come up with some excuses if a member of the press, for example, raised such doubts - yeah... he actually did that in more than one interview that I read, trying to prove that what he did in an year earlier, and what he shown, was some kind of advanced status of development, and definitely they implied from the beginning, just as now, about things that were not been shown).

2. Games that are not for niche markets that are fully focused on hardcore players. Yeah! Welcome to gaming bro!