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Is the game economy already "live"?

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  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    filmoret said:
    @rpmcmurphy man i told you its like talking to a wall.  Sooner or later they bait you into saying something you shouldn't then you are in the jail with Brenics.  You would be more productive throwing grass at a tree seeing if it falls down.


    While I respect the analogy, please don't act like somehow the anti-SC "logic" has been infallible, if existent at all! I would whole heartedly agree with you, though, don't waste your breath. I've injected many a logical argument into these threads, but do you think that Brenics is in jail because he was making logical arguments?

    That's a serious question by the way. It'll let me know whether or not I should bother even endeavouring to discuss logic with you or not. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    CrazKanuk said:
    filmoret said:
    @rpmcmurphy man i told you its like talking to a wall.  Sooner or later they bait you into saying something you shouldn't then you are in the jail with Brenics.  You would be more productive throwing grass at a tree seeing if it falls down.


    While I respect the analogy, please don't act like somehow the anti-SC "logic" has been infallible, if existent at all! I would whole heartedly agree with you, though, don't waste your breath. I've injected many a logical argument into these threads, but do you think that Brenics is in jail because he was making logical arguments?

    That's a serious question by the way. It'll let me know whether or not I should bother even endeavouring to discuss logic with you or not. 
    It's logical to draw attention to a subject which cannot be discussed? There's no way to contest your statement, not for the validity, but for the fact it's not an available topic for discussion. You don't "prove" anything when there's not possible rebuttal.

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/circle-jerk

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    filmoret said:
    @rpmcmurphy man i told you its like talking to a wall.  Sooner or later they bait you into saying something you shouldn't then you are in the jail with Brenics.  Y
    What is this 3rd grade?  No one is responsible for what another person says. IF you can't keep your cool over forum posts, that's on no one but yourself.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Adjuvant1 said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    filmoret said:
    @rpmcmurphy man i told you its like talking to a wall.  Sooner or later they bait you into saying something you shouldn't then you are in the jail with Brenics.  You would be more productive throwing grass at a tree seeing if it falls down.


    While I respect the analogy, please don't act like somehow the anti-SC "logic" has been infallible, if existent at all! I would whole heartedly agree with you, though, don't waste your breath. I've injected many a logical argument into these threads, but do you think that Brenics is in jail because he was making logical arguments?

    That's a serious question by the way. It'll let me know whether or not I should bother even endeavouring to discuss logic with you or not. 

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/circle-jerk


    Lol, that's funny because it's how I've characterized many of the SC discussions that go on here. 

    I'm not sure what the rest of your post is referring to. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I didn't state it clearly enough. Either way, we're about to head in that same direction that you so kindly linked above, so thanks for the illustration. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    edited April 2016
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?


    The woman has a job and bought a car.

    Next issue?
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
      How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    *** sigh ***

    Once again....

    Do you have even a SHRED of verifyable proof for your claim that "they were broke" ?


    If this is a rumour ... or your personal opinion ... please make it clear that it is an opinion or rumour.


    Have fun


    I will leave that for you to find, it has been posted on these forums and also there are other links on RSI, unless they took them down. 

    You are the link master. :-D
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Brenics said:
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
      How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    *** sigh ***

    Once again....

    Do you have even a SHRED of verifyable proof for your claim that "they were broke" ?


    If this is a rumour ... or your personal opinion ... please make it clear that it is an opinion or rumour.


    Have fun


    I will leave that for you to find, it has been posted on these forums and also there are other links on RSI, unless they took them down. 

    You are the link master. :-D
    That means: No. You do not have even a shred of verifyable proof.

    Tought so.


    Have fun 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not sure what the rest of your post is referring to. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.
    It's against forum rules to discuss mod decisions and infractions. People can't tell you for what, or what they think of, infractions that have been handed them. Taunting people to reply on a discussion about something against the rules isn't kosher. For all I know, the way you referenced the issue might get an infraction,  because it discusses mod activity. You should report yourself and find out.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Adjuvant1 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not sure what the rest of your post is referring to. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.
    It's against forum rules to discuss mod decisions and infractions. People can't tell you for what, or what they think of, infractions that have been handed them. Taunting people to reply on a discussion about something against the rules isn't kosher. For all I know, the way you referenced the issue might get an infraction,  because it discusses mod activity. You should report yourself and find out.

    What are you even talking about? I thought Brenics was literally in jail. My bad. Still don't know how that has anything to do with the subject at hand. Once again, we'll break down an SC thread into a war of semantics and literals in order to decrease the collective intelligence of the Internet? Meh...... 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    CrazKanuk said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not sure what the rest of your post is referring to. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.
    It's against forum rules to discuss mod decisions and infractions. People can't tell you for what, or what they think of, infractions that have been handed them. Taunting people to reply on a discussion about something against the rules isn't kosher. For all I know, the way you referenced the issue might get an infraction,  because it discusses mod activity. You should report yourself and find out.

    What are you even talking about? I thought Brenics was literally in jail. My bad. Still don't know how that has anything to do with the subject at hand. Once again, we'll break down an SC thread into a war of semantics and literals in order to decrease the collective intelligence of the Internet? Meh...... 
    You thought people who have the jail icon over their avatars are typing on mmorpg.com from jails.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Adjuvant1 said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not sure what the rest of your post is referring to. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.
    It's against forum rules to discuss mod decisions and infractions. People can't tell you for what, or what they think of, infractions that have been handed them. Taunting people to reply on a discussion about something against the rules isn't kosher. For all I know, the way you referenced the issue might get an infraction,  because it discusses mod activity. You should report yourself and find out.

    What are you even talking about? I thought Brenics was literally in jail. My bad. Still don't know how that has anything to do with the subject at hand. Once again, we'll break down an SC thread into a war of semantics and literals in order to decrease the collective intelligence of the Internet? Meh...... 
    You thought people who have the jail icon over their avatars are typing on mmorpg.com from jails.

    Yeah, is that not what it is? 

    Anyway, you were the one who linked to Circle Jerk. I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to inform me, I didn't realize it was a proposition to participate in one. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    edited April 2016
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 
    Just a quick question but which other developers do you know that disclose their accounts to the public let alone disclose how much their employee's are on. 

    Might want to take a closer look at data protection laws for a starter...
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 

    I definitely agree that this could end up happening. Shoot, it could happen right now. The only real obstacle is getting the Feds to launch an investigation, although that was suggested nearly a year ago now, so I highly doubt they'll be looking into anything. I mean it would be nice to put things to bed one way or the other with regards to spending, I just don't see it happening. You're right, though, possibly in the future these could be constraints placed on crowdfunded companies (for better or worse). 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    edited April 2016
    CrazKanuk said:

    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 

    I definitely agree that this could end up happening. Shoot, it could happen right now. The only real obstacle is getting the Feds to launch an investigation, although that was suggested nearly a year ago now, so I highly doubt they'll be looking into anything. I mean it would be nice to put things to bed one way or the other with regards to spending, I just don't see it happening. You're right, though, possibly in the future these could be constraints placed on crowdfunded companies (for better or worse). 
    Isn't it nice when two on different sides end up agreeing. :-D

    To the guy that thinks am in jail, if I was I don't think Bubba would let me. :surprised: 

    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited April 2016
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 

    I definitely agree that this could end up happening. Shoot, it could happen right now. The only real obstacle is getting the Feds to launch an investigation, although that was suggested nearly a year ago now, so I highly doubt they'll be looking into anything. I mean it would be nice to put things to bed one way or the other with regards to spending, I just don't see it happening. You're right, though, possibly in the future these could be constraints placed on crowdfunded companies (for better or worse). 
    Isn't it nice when two on different sides end up agreeing. :-D

    To the guy that thinks am in jail, if I was I don't think Bubba would let me. :surprised: 


    Crazy, there's a Bubba in there with you for real? That's hilarious! 

    I can see a need for transparency, but I don't think that the public is, generally, ready for a level of granularity that would include people's salaries. Also, that would mean that everyone in the office would know what everyone else was making which is never good. I mean I think that an outsider looking in can accept differentiation and good negotiating, but when you're an employee of that company, it's not good for business or morale. On top of that, it ends up driving up average salaries across the board. So if the feds take care of it, let the feds handle it. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited April 2016
    If someone actually took the time to go through all the articles written by CIG for the purpose of fundraising.  Well that would be one interesting thread.  It would probably cause them to remove half of them because noone really pays attention to them any more.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link?channel=&series=star-citizen-project&type=&text=&sort=publish_old

    I wonder if they added anything to the scope of the project other then ships.  Because reading those articles for a game that was suppose to cost around 6 million doesn't look much different then what is currently pitched.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:
    In the spirit of CR's movie career I will leave this vision with all of you.

    The sun looks large on the horizon while it sets for the night....we see an 80 thousand dollar car driving away and with it two people smiling at each other while they drive off into the sunset.........

    CUT IT'S A WRAP!
    I'm pretty sure the budget for this vaporware project allows for a more expensive car :)
    Well I only know Sandi owns an 80k car. How she can afford a car like that when they were broke when they started the SC kickstarter. :-D
    The same way most people have an 80k car, they don't pay for it all at once? Or lease it and spend even less money?
    I agree so would be nice to know how many checks she gets and how much each check is. But of course with these KS/Crowdfunding no one can know that stuff. Your money only counts for them not the backers.

    Lol, so you believe that by having run a crowdfunding campaign, people should be accountable to the degree that they release the salary of all employees? Ummmmm, yeah, 1) good luck bringing in any talent, 2) the Internet is DEFINITELY ready for that, and; 3) even if that was exposed to backers only, it would be public knowledge in a New York minute. 

    So if you can invent a technology which securely delivers granular data directly to the brain of backers ONLY and doesn't allow for the propagation of that data outside of their own brain..... I vote for yes too. Otherwise, it just turns into a shit show of Sharknado proportions and people being scrutinized without and sort of logic, context, or valid comparison. Shoot, it already happens!!! 
    You bring up a compelling argument yet if the backers would be investors (I believe they are with no payback in the end other than play a game) they would have a right to know who is getting what. They can see where the money is going, for example if CR or his wife receive a check from each company they founded. How much they end up spending on furniture and coffee machines, and so on. 

    You are right as of now they don't need to show anything. But I seem to think in the future this may actually end up happening. It will be interesting in the future what may change with crowdfunding more so if CR never releases a game or a game that doesn't come close to what a 100m should produce.

    We are getting very close to finding all of this out. 
    Nope sorry this is all just back to the rather tired "Oh ya got trouble, right here in River City" routine you guys like to trot out in the hopes that if you repeat this baseless canard long enough it will somehow become fact. Its funny how anti-fans somehow have concrete conviction of financial monkeyshines on behalf of Roberts yet have absolutely no evidence to back up the insinuations. "We know he's guilty" "Prove it" "We can't until we see his books" "Well sorry without any evidence of wrong doing you have absolutely no right to see his books" "But we KNOW he's guilty" "Show me the proof" "WE DON'T HAVE ANY" etc..... This circular argument over phantoms reminds me of the unpleasantly poignant NTNON skit on police profiling Constable Savage. Its easy to find fault when you've convinced yourself in your own head that someone is absolutely guilty even without one shred of evidence.
    "without one shred of evidence"

    A ) Escapist article

    B ) Wired article

    C ) Missed release dates

    D ) $16k espresso machine

    E ) This guy, here

    Hyperbole is hyperbole: that's an awful lot of smoke for "without one shred of evidence".  I'm not hating on this game (I have better things to do with my time), but I wouldn't want to pretend that 'everything is fine', either.  Perhaps you are taking exception to "wrongdoing" being lumped in with "apparent incompetence".  You would have a point, but to me they overlap somewhat.  Roberts was quick to tout the fact that he didn't need a publisher or 'pay to hire financial experts'...

    ...at what point, and after how many millions, does 'forgivable human fallibility' turn into 'he should have known better'?

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    MisterZebub said:
    Stuff
    "without one shred of evidence"

    A ) Escapist article

    B ) Wired article

    C ) Missed release dates

    D ) $16k espresso machine

    E ) This guy, here

    Hyperbole is hyperbole: that's an awful lot of smoke for "without one shred of evidence".  I'm not hating on this game (I have better things to do with my time), but I wouldn't want to pretend that 'everything is fine', either.  Perhaps you are taking exception to "wrongdoing" being lumped in with "apparent incompetence".  You would have a point, but to me they overlap somewhat.  Roberts was quick to tout the fact that he didn't need a publisher or 'pay to hire financial experts'...

    ...at what point, and after how many millions, does 'forgivable human fallibility' turn into 'he should have known better'?
    Now dont go throwing facts and data at them, you know they just simply refuse to believe or make up justifications for things. 

    The escapist article was a lie!
    Wired is a trash mag!
    Everyone misses dates!
    Every company of only a few hundred employees needs $1000 lamps and $16k coffee machines silly!

     
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939

    @MisterZebub You do realize the Escapist has no reason to do an update until something major happens at CIG. That seems to be coming in a couple of weeks. Time will tell.

    I agree it would be weird to have backers get to know all wages and where money is going. Granted they could say here is how much it takes to pay all employees. But the rest should be open to all backers it you spend 5 or 30k it shouldn't matter.

    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited April 2016
    Talonsin said:
    MisterZebub said:
    Stuff
    "without one shred of evidence"

    A ) Escapist article

    B ) Wired article

    C ) Missed release dates

    D ) $16k espresso machine

    E ) This guy, here

    Hyperbole is hyperbole: that's an awful lot of smoke for "without one shred of evidence".  I'm not hating on this game (I have better things to do with my time), but I wouldn't want to pretend that 'everything is fine', either.  Perhaps you are taking exception to "wrongdoing" being lumped in with "apparent incompetence".  You would have a point, but to me they overlap somewhat.  Roberts was quick to tout the fact that he didn't need a publisher or 'pay to hire financial experts'...

    ...at what point, and after how many millions, does 'forgivable human fallibility' turn into 'he should have known better'?
    Now dont go throwing facts and data at them, you know they just simply refuse to believe or make up justifications for things. 

    The escapist article was a lie!
    Wired is a trash mag!
    Everyone misses dates!
    Every company of only a few hundred employees needs $1000 lamps and $16k coffee machines silly!

     
    "Make up justifications" "facts".. No one needs to make up anything here, it's about whether those things are true evidence, or are they circumstantial and/or anecdotal. 

    A) Escapist article, no matter how you slice it down, in the end it's he said vs she said... that's not facts... 

    B.) Have no idea what the "wired" article is referring to so no comment...

    C) This is mostly anecdotal as well as circumstantial. Hence the reason you hear the argument you mock. A missed release date is a missed release date. It happens, outright it doesn't mean "scam" or any other manner of wrong doing. Could simply be technical difficulty. 

    D) Coffee machine.... sure it's a pure luxury, but come on... in the grand scheme of things if something is wrong, where does that weigh in in matters of importance?

    What did I have to make up in these replies, how in any way are they outlandish?

    It's not about refusing to believe anything it's that the proof isn't exactly "proof"... yet it's shoved down our throats as though it is.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Brenics said:

    @MisterZebub You do realize the Escapist has no reason to do an update until something major happens at CIG. That seems to be coming in a couple of weeks. Time will tell.

    I agree it would be weird to have backers get to know all wages and where money is going. Granted they could say here is how much it takes to pay all employees. But the rest should be open to all backers it you spend 5 or 30k it shouldn't matter.

    The way kickstarter and other crowd funded funds are currently handled is murky at best ... write out a petition and I'll sign it. I'll agree crowd funding in general could use a bit more clarifying legislation in the future.

    However the cold hard fact that these people gave away money with little to no strings attached? Tough titters! You foolishly made your beds, now lie in them.

    As to the Escapist, we'll just have to have a gentleman's disagreement on that one. Pausing while they gather some more ammo for the next attack I can buy. Going dark and pretending like the whole thing never happened? I can't. If they had any intention of continuing its seems rational that we would have heard at least another confirmation that they haven't given up by now.

    Now I'm not saying the original journalist isn't interested in continuing the battle, I personally feel the people who control the Escapist's purse strings just aren't letting her and have issued a gag order. An idea which personally disgusts me as her being the face of the article means its her journalistic credibility they're scuttling, not theirs.
    For the escapist article she has said that they haven't given her the ok for a follow up article (or something along those lines, I would need to check my inbox).

    Also you can't really bring up the Escapist going dark when Chris and his rantings have also gone dark on the matter.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    "without one shred of evidence"

    --> Yes. STILL without a shred of evidence.

    A ) Escapist article

    --> I just read it. Does not mention anywhere that Chris Roberts was broke before he started Star Citizen.

    B ) Wired article

    --> I just read it. Does not mention anywhere that Chris Roberts was broke before he started Star Citizen.

    C ) Missed release dates

    --> That is relevant for the claim that Chris Roberts was broke before he started Star Citizen .. how ?

    D ) $16k espresso machine

    --> Feel free to show us a ticket with a 16 k$ price tag on it ... any evidence that this is not a leased machine.

    E ) This guy, here

    -->  he is relevant for the claim that Chris Roberts was broke before he started Star Citizen .. how ?

    --> can he produce the bank statements  that show that Chris Roberts was broke before he started Star Citizen ?  The bank statements that you are obviously not able to show us as evidence for your claim.


    --> As I said ... if you want to say that this is your OPINION or that you heard this RUMOUR ... fine

    --> If you claim this to be the one and only truth, be prepared to present evidence. We are still waiting.


    --> Have fun






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