Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is the game economy already "live"?

18911131416

Comments

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    DKLond said:
    Brenics said:

    Escapist Article: No follow up article, never a mention of anything related to this or the follow up again. Dead silence kinda fucks their credibility pretty badly.

    Wired Article: Same empty talking points as above.

    Missed Release Dates: No argument there, except this is due to feature creep. CR decided to shoot for the moon so now we have to wait and see if he makes it or burns up horribly on reentry. My personal choice for most relevant SC criticism.

    $16k espresso machine: Show me the receipt that shows they were stupid enough to buy a machine outright when you can lease one for far cheaper per year. More "bark bark bark" attack dog nonsense that can be solved with a few seconds of rational thinking.

    This guy here: Self admitted non-factor. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the guy in general, but taking his game making expertise over Roberts makes about as much sense as taking Carrot Top's comedy success advice over Richard Pryor's. 

    Again as I've stated time and again there are some really good talking points on what's wrong with this game. However with the exception of feature creep the rest on that list are nothing but overblown hyperbole that in the end scuttle the ant-fans arguments far more than their foes as you guys can never prove any of your insinuations and just end up looking like the boy who cried wolf. Or worse, just incredibly envious.


    We seem to be running into a problem of 'selective rationalism'.  To me, that there is no follow up Escapist article doesn't "fuck their[] credibility" in the slightest, and is common sense.  I'll not get into the "why", here; the reason is so obvious (if you've been paying attention), that from my perspective it needs no explanation.

    Espresso machine: I almost feel bad for pointing this one out, as I am an avid coffee drinker myself.  However, it doesn't matter if it's leased or owned?  It's just.... not a very smart move, from my perspective.  You are right; $16k is a drop in the bucket compared to what they have raised.  Consider, though, what it looks like from the outside.

    "This guy" I was referring to was actually "J HOW", not "dsmart".  Apparently, he has some technical insight to the project after looking at former CIG programmer / engineer applications.  It isn't pretty, or flattering, as I'm sure you can imagine.

    This is all highly speculative, of course, and it could be that we are just seeing the negative side of things from people with whom things didn't work out between them and CIG; this is especially true of the Escapist article, so I am taking it with a grain of salt.

    Again, this probably looks like I am damning the project, and this isn't the case; I just don't think "without a shred of evidence" is an accurate depiction of what's going on here: it's inciteful, rather than insightful, language.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329

    Again, this probably looks like I am damning the project, and this isn't the case; I just don't think "without a shred of evidence" is an accurate depiction of what's going on here: it's inciteful, rather than insightful, language.
    As the claim was  that Chris Roberts was broke before Star Citizen and i asked to produce even a shred of evidence for that claim (see above in this thread)  ..... do YOU have any shred of evidence to support that claim ?

    And no - none of the things you mentioned so far are evidence for that claim as you can see in my previous answer to your "no shred of evidence" post. And yes - i DID read the articles you mentioned.


    Have fun
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.

    Again, and this is the problem with SC discussions, we're talking about SC as though it is somehow "different" than anything else. It's actually quite common practice to ban people for being overly negative with regards to a game, on the games forums. Is it not? Steam is a classic example. 

    Some other examples of popular games would be Everquest, SWTOR, Elite: Dangerous, FFXIV. 

    I really don't think that it's anything new. Actually, it is kind of new, but then is the issues with negativity which seem to be pandemic now. So, for a game which relies heavily on its community to spread positivity in order to make money, it's really not that surprising. Even if I was just looking to foster a strong community, I'd ban those people. Whether or not it's stated, it happens on the daily. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    edited April 2016
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.

    The reddit is worse. It's censored into oblivion. There's not even a "controversial" tab anymore, when it existed 2 months ago. The threads just disappear.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Adjuvant1 said:

    The reddit is worse. It's censored into oblivion. There's not even a "controversial" tab anymore, when it existed 2 months ago. The threads just disappear.
    Well, you will always have Paris ... errr... I mean ... somethingawful.com


    Have fun
  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593
    I look in this way guys have trillion UC before game release probably lost interresing in game quick 
    Any kind game players like see progression , if you are maxed before game release whats points?
    going space and do pvp? All right you can do that and its not bad thing since you dont need grind out to have better equipment you have more time to Explore and Gank newcomers(you are innocence if you think its not going happen largely)  beside this you can focus in capture station and faction war(or any kind war/territorial warfare) you game be resume on IT

    you spend 10k USD to play 2 moth 
    CR its thankfull for you support and dont give a shit about you  
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Erillion said:
    Adjuvant1 said:

    The reddit is worse. It's censored into oblivion. There's not even a "controversial" tab anymore, when it existed 2 months ago. The threads just disappear.
    Well, you will always have Paris ... errr... I mean ... somethingawful.com


    Have fun
    Isn't "agitprop" the word you like to use to describe dissension?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agitprop

    "Censorship of the press: Bolshevik strategy from the beginning was to introduce censorship over the primary medium of information in the former Russian Empire in 1917, the newspaper. The provisional government, born out of the March Revolution against the tsarist regime, abolished the age-old practice of censoring the press. This created free newspapers that survived on their own revenue. The Bolsheviks' power over the provisional government lay in the Petrograd Soviet of Workers’ and Soldiers’ Deputies, because they could shut down industry and government by calling in workers and soldiers to strike and demonstrate. This ability to orchestrate strikes was especially helpful in the newspaper printing factories because a strike would mean a large loss in revenue, and the inability to continue to operate. The capability of strikes allowed the Bolsheviks to shut down any newspaper they wanted, creating a highly effective censorship mechanism that put a stop to the voice of the opposition. Lenin took control of the socialist newspaper Pravda, making it an outlet to spread Bolshevik agitprop, articles, and other media. With the Bolshevik capability to censor and shut down newspapers of opposing or rival factions, Pravda was able to become the dominant source of written information for the population in regions controlled by the Red Army ."


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Adjuvant1 said:

    Isn't "agitprop" the word you like to use to describe dissension?

    Agitprop is the word i like to use to describe a controlled and directed campaign of propaganda to denigrate a project.

    In this particular case it is my opinion that it is also often used by certain parties with previous experience of using such techniques e.g. in EVE Online.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    vadio123 said:
    you spend 10k USD to play 2 moth 
    Or you can spend 54 $ (or even as low as 20 $ once)   and play (hopefully) 10 years.


    Have fun
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Erillion said:
    Adjuvant1 said:

    Isn't "agitprop" the word you like to use to describe dissension?

    Agitprop is the word i like to use to describe a controlled and directed campaign of propaganda to denigrate a project.

    In this particular case it is my opinion that it is also often used by certain parties with previous experience of using such techniques e.g. in EVE Online.


    Have fun
    That's not what that word means. Agitprop is a propaganda campaign to control the masses, make them not look outside at possible sources of dissent. It's used to magnify the glory and power of the institution in the minds of, otherwise ignorant, natives.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    edited April 2016
    Erillion said:
    vadio123 said:
    you spend 10k USD to play 2 moth 
    Or you can spend 54 $ (or even as low as 20 $ once)   and play (hopefully) 10 years.


    Have fun
    Yep but the thing is as of right now in this time you will never see the game you guys think you are. 

    But keep up the good fight! I bet in the end you guys would of taken that 6m dollar game compared what you just might be getting. 

    OH MY GOD THANK YOU AM OUT OF JAIL. 

    Bubba I will miss you. :-D
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Adjuvant1 said:
    That's not what that word means. Agitprop is a propaganda campaign to control the masses, make them not look outside at possible sources of dissent. It's used to magnify the glory and power of the institution in the minds of, otherwise ignorant, natives.
    Ah, i see you have read your "Mittani"  ;-)


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    edited April 2016
    Brenics said:

    OH MY GOD THANK YOU AM OUT OF JAIL. 

    Bubba I will miss you. :-D
    ****   deleted ;-)   *** nevermind ***

    Have fun
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Erillion said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    That's not what that word means. Agitprop is a propaganda campaign to control the masses, make them not look outside at possible sources of dissent. It's used to magnify the glory and power of the institution in the minds of, otherwise ignorant, natives.
    Ah, i see you have read your "Mittani"  ;-)


    Have fun
    What does this even mean?
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Distopia said:
    "Make up justifications" "facts".. No one needs to make up anything here, it's about whether those things are true evidence, or are they circumstantial and/or anecdotal. 

    A) Escapist article, no matter how you slice it down, in the end it's he said vs she said... that's not facts... 

    B.) Have no idea what the "wired" article is referring to so no comment...

    C) This is mostly anecdotal as well as circumstantial. Hence the reason you hear the argument you mock. A missed release date is a missed release date. It happens, outright it doesn't mean "scam" or any other manner of wrong doing. Could simply be technical difficulty. 

    D) Coffee machine.... sure it's a pure luxury, but come on... in the grand scheme of things if something is wrong, where does that weigh in in matters of importance?

    What did I have to make up in these replies, how in any way are they outlandish?

    It's not about refusing to believe anything it's that the proof isn't exactly "proof"... yet it's shoved down our throats as though it is.


    A. What you said applies to everything then eh?  Someone testifies about a murder they saw, its basically he said/she said isnt it?  No real reason to convict someone then eh?  That's not fact. 

    B.

    C. Some people in the game industry miss delivery dates so it is now ok for anyone to miss delivery dates by YEARS. 

    D. What about the promise Chris wrote that 100% of the backer money would go to game development?  Do we understand that that includes chairs/desks/computers/lamps/coffee machine, YES!  Should it include $16,000 coffee machines and $900 lamps in corners which are more for show than actual lighting in the office? NOPE

    You continue to use broad generalizations to justify his actions.  Some people miss target dates, guess it is ok for Chris to miss dates.  Chris is no longer missing dates, he has now called the whole process of having a timeline "artificial" which creates an environment perfect for him to no longer be accountable.  Tell me one  publisher who would allow Chris to run around and do whatever he wanted and have no accountability or even have a tentative timetable?  I'm all for removing the suppression of creativity that developers claim publishers put on them but I am also for accountability and right now there is none.  

    I would have no problem with any of this if it were a publishers money or Chris's money but its not.  It is our money and we can no longer get a refund and to get out of this mess.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    What I find really funny a few of Star Citizen fans wouldn't give smed the time of day and the guy helped give us what we have today. But CR gave us some great visions he never actually gave us the game as in coding. Yet they believe anything he says and forgive him for his (what I have read, go look I won't link it) drug dependencies. Until it all comes to a head all we do is go round and round. 

    We hit them they go down.

    They hit us we go down.

    It is fun to watch, plus at times downright funny. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited April 2016
    Talonsin said:
    Distopia said:
    "Make up justifications" "facts".. No one needs to make up anything here, it's about whether those things are true evidence, or are they circumstantial and/or anecdotal. 

    A) Escapist article, no matter how you slice it down, in the end it's he said vs she said... that's not facts... 

    B.) Have no idea what the "wired" article is referring to so no comment...

    C) This is mostly anecdotal as well as circumstantial. Hence the reason you hear the argument you mock. A missed release date is a missed release date. It happens, outright it doesn't mean "scam" or any other manner of wrong doing. Could simply be technical difficulty. 

    D) Coffee machine.... sure it's a pure luxury, but come on... in the grand scheme of things if something is wrong, where does that weigh in in matters of importance?

    What did I have to make up in these replies, how in any way are they outlandish?

    It's not about refusing to believe anything it's that the proof isn't exactly "proof"... yet it's shoved down our throats as though it is.


    A. What you said applies to everything then eh?  Someone testifies about a murder they saw, its basically he said/she said isnt it?  No real reason to convict someone then eh?  That's not fact. 

    B.

    C. Some people in the game industry miss delivery dates so it is now ok for anyone to miss delivery dates by YEARS. 

    D. What about the promise Chris wrote that 100% of the backer money would go to game development?  Do we understand that that includes chairs/desks/computers/lamps/coffee machine, YES!  Should it include $16,000 coffee machines and $900 lamps in corners which are more for show than actual lighting in the office? NOPE

    You continue to use broad generalizations to justify his actions.  Some people miss target dates, guess it is ok for Chris to miss dates.  Chris is no longer missing dates, he has now called the whole process of having a timeline "artificial" which creates an environment perfect for him to no longer be accountable.  Tell me one  publisher who would allow Chris to run around and do whatever he wanted and have no accountability or even have a tentative timetable?  I'm all for removing the suppression of creativity that developers claim publishers put on them but I am also for accountability and right now there is none.  

    I would have no problem with any of this if it were a publishers money or Chris's money but its not.  It is our money and we can no longer get a refund and to get out of this mess.
    Who's actions am I defending? When have I ever "defended" "his actions"? You completely mistake my intent if that's what you think I'm doing. I also wasn't generalizing as I was speaking to those points laid out, that's not generalizing. 

    Anyway... 

    A... to indict anyone you need real evidence, that's the point, "he said vs she said" alone means nothing in any court of law, it's completely circumstantial.. Eye witness testimony can be important, but it's rare a conviction happens outright due to it. They typically need more than that. 

    C: It's not about it being okay... who said "it's okay" I said it happens, so alone it isn't much evidence that the entire project is a sham. 

    D) like I said it's a luxury, one that in the big picture isn't going to matter all that much. 

    This is what we're supposed to view as evidence? OF what exactly? They are asses who like expensive coffee, miss deadlines, and have made some enemies for one reason or another?




    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Brenics said:
    What I find really funny a few of Star Citizen fans wouldn't give smed the time of day and the guy helped give us what we have today. But CR gave us some great visions he never actually gave us the game as in coding. Yet they believe anything he says and forgive him for his (what I have read, go look I won't link it) drug dependencies. Until it all comes to a head all we do is go round and round. 

    We hit them they go down.

    They hit us we go down.

    It is fun to watch, plus at times downright funny. 
    I have no problem with Smed, I also don't believe in much of what CR says (don't really pay attention to it either).. still don't agree with most of the points you guys lay out daily :P....

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.
    The thread you cited was closed. Apparently it's against rule 9 ( whatever we say should be closed ) because it's FUD to discuss FUD, the definition of FUD, or the nature of FUD.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Adjuvant1 said:
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.
    The thread you cited was closed. Apparently it's against rule 9 ( whatever we say should be closed ) because it's FUD to discuss FUD, the definition of FUD, or the nature of FUD.
    Petabyte!
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Adjuvant1 said:
    **stuff**
    Petabyte!
    That made me smile, especially with the Star Trek "2+2=5" episode in mind ;-)


    Have fun
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Adjuvant1 said:
    So I just took a walk along CIG/RSI's forums, just to see how things were coming along; it's downright weird over there:

    This is one of the first threads I stumble across.  Apparently, as a member of CIG's community, you are barred from spreading "Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt."  They even have an acronym for this: "FUD".  You are not allowed to "spread FUD".

    Does that seem normal to you?  Healthy?

    Having been a forum moderator for years and years, to me it's a very strange rule to have.  Rather than sparking productive discussion, it seems positively engineered to foster "us vs. them" mentality.  It's like something out of a cult.

    I'm all for fostering productive discussion, but warning against "spreading fear", "spreading doubt", or "spreading uncertainty" is just weird.  It speaks to an elephant in the room.

    Good luck to this project; I've just never had a taste for this sort of thing.

    The reddit is worse. It's censored into oblivion. There's not even a "controversial" tab anymore, when it existed 2 months ago. The threads just disappear.
    It's becoming quite normal for crowdfunded projects to promote the idea that it's forums aren't a place for true critique, you see it often on steam with early access titles. You also see it in the nature and reasoning for "forum subscriptions". which the very justification for is, we only wanna hear from those committed to "supporting the title".

    They are only interested in creating an echo chamber free of dissent. Hardcore fans seem to be highly in favor of such an approach. I think it's nothing but filling your ranks with yes-men, which will be bad news for many of these titles post release. 


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15287-10-For-The-Chairman

    Huh. So they will have people spending real UEC in alpha and those purchases carry over. 5:43 to 7:43.

    The thinking is "well, if it has alpha UEC in it, it's not really live, because we'll reset the alpha UEC", but people can still pay money to keep their purchases persistent. That is a live economy. No clue how that's not very obvious.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Adjuvant1 said:

    Huh. So they will have people spending real UEC in alpha and those purchases carry over.

    Thank you to Captain Obvious for reminding us of this information, which we already known since 2012.


    Now ... as you say this is a "live economy" i just tried to sell or gift one of my weapons bought with UEC to another player i know.

    Guess what ... it did not work.

    One can gift ships/pledge packages, but no items from Voyager Direct. There is simply no option to do that at the moment.

    I can melt ships (at a loss). But i cannot melt my Greycat Buggy. There is simply no option to do that at the moment.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/gifting-faq


    You can buy a Gift Cards (essentially a real life money coupon or gift voucher) and give that to a friend.


    So much for a "live economy" where you can freely trade all items as many times as you want. You will have to wait until later for that.


    Have fun

Sign In or Register to comment.