The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
What's your source for this?
You think that it will change simply because the game launches? They failed to project cost of development by over 30 million dollars. They don't even have a skeleton for their character models yet. You expect them to figure out how to make an economy that doesn't involve heavy cash grab tactics? I do not.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
No, private servers were put on backburner long, long ago. It's one of those "we will tell you we will have it eventually if that makes you send us money" things. Honestly, like the VR technology, I have no clue how they plan to explain this to rational, tech-adept people who know and understand the code needs to be prepared in such a manner from the very beginning for such things to be possible.
If too much is client-side, then there's no real reason to sell UEC at all. A 12yo could crack it and give himself unlimited, well, everything. They ( CIG ) don't know what they're doing, at all. I wonder sometimes why I bother intellectualizing it.
You're essentially claiming they're idiots who don't know what they're doing - and yet they've managed to develop some pretty amazing tech.
Considering how early SC 2.1+ alpha is - I've certainly been very impressed, especially by stuff like local-to-global physics and the ability to seamlessly go between flying, walking, EVA'ing, shooting, and so on.
I honestly haven't seen a lot of idiots pull off that kind of thing
"Idiot" isn't a term I used. They're showing every flashy thing possible and making unreasonable claims for the rest, which seems pretty smart, but rotten.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
The last I heard was that private/modded servers were a long, long way down the pipeline, to the extent that they quipped one or more of the team would be dead by the time it happened (aka never). They don't appear to be designing the game around client-hosted capability so I really don't see it happening.
Another wonderful idea bought to you courtesy of the Chris Roberts™ media machine.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
The last I heard was that private/modded servers were a long, long way down the pipeline,
--> long way down the pipeline is correct. They want to have a game first before they let them run it on private servers.
to the extent that they quipped one or more of the team would be dead by the time it happened (aka never).
--> quote source ... or you just made that up yourself.
They don't appear to be designing the game around client-hosted capability
--> this game is not based on client-hosting peer-to-peer capability like Elite:Dangerous is. You eventually will be able to run private SC universes on your own server ... but this will essentially be a separate copy of the game universe. While you will be able to download the code upgrades, you will never ever be able to ever upload any of your own "private" player data to the overall galaxy server. So yes, you COULD give yourself 12 trillion UEC in your "private universe". But NO, those 12 trillion UEC will never appear in the official galaxy server.
So you don't feel it's true, and you'll tell people it isn't true, that a game must be written with the intent to have this type of function, from the beginning and throughout. You think they can just make a game, then add a few things and make it work great for people hosting their own universes. Is this correct?
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources. Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
So you don't feel it's true, and you'll tell people it isn't true, that a game must be written with the intent to have this type of function, from the beginning and throughout. You think they can just make a game, then add a few things and make it work great for people hosting their own universes. Is this correct?
"Persistent Universe (hosted by US) Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)"
I do not care about the technical details how they will do it. THAT is what i expect .... because THIS (and many other things) were in the crowdfunding project that i backed.
What shocks me the most is how we argue over a game that after 4 years there is still no real game.
Did you guys watch rtv yesterday? Roberts keep talking but never really said anything. He keep talking PU when there really isn't anything close to a PU.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
What's your source for this?
You think that it will change simply because the game launches? They failed to project cost of development by over 30 million dollars. They don't even have a skeleton for their character models yet. You expect them to figure out how to make an economy that doesn't involve heavy cash grab tactics? I do not.
What I think isn't really relevant. I'm not stating pure conjecture as fact or set in stone. That was what you did.
Now, I have reasons for my opinions - and I can provide those reasons, but that's a very different thing.
I was just curious if your "facts" had anything solid behind them apart from speculation and what sounds like fantasy numbers. I mean, the project is constantly growing and changing - and you're surprised they can't accurately predict the final budget? I guess you don't have much experience with huge projects. That's an everyday occurrence with big titles.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
No, private servers were put on backburner long, long ago. It's one of those "we will tell you we will have it eventually if that makes you send us money" things. Honestly, like the VR technology, I have no clue how they plan to explain this to rational, tech-adept people who know and understand the code needs to be prepared in such a manner from the very beginning for such things to be possible.
If too much is client-side, then there's no real reason to sell UEC at all. A 12yo could crack it and give himself unlimited, well, everything. They ( CIG ) don't know what they're doing, at all. I wonder sometimes why I bother intellectualizing it.
You're essentially claiming they're idiots who don't know what they're doing - and yet they've managed to develop some pretty amazing tech.
Considering how early SC 2.1+ alpha is - I've certainly been very impressed, especially by stuff like local-to-global physics and the ability to seamlessly go between flying, walking, EVA'ing, shooting, and so on.
I honestly haven't seen a lot of idiots pull off that kind of thing
"Idiot" isn't a term I used. They're showing every flashy thing possible and making unreasonable claims for the rest, which seems pretty smart, but rotten.
So, they don't know what they're doing - but they're actually both smart and rotten?
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources. Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
Are you saying that improving art and assets as development continues is, somehow, unusual in the gaming industry?
What shocks me the most is how we argue over a game that after 4 years there is still no real game.
Did you guys watch rtv yesterday? Roberts keep talking but never really said anything. He keep talking PU when there really isn't anything close to a PU.
Yeah, me too. I don't have any idea why people keep bitching about a game that's not actually there.
It's like the fact that we're seeing a tiny fraction of the game - in an ALPHA state - is being ignored constantly.
There are issues and the game isn't complete yet? In alpha?
Shocking
I doubt it'll be released sooner than 2018 - so you better save your breath for a lot of alpha-whining!
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources. Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
Are you saying that improving art and assets as development continues is, somehow, unusual in the gaming industry?
Do you know anything at all about what it's like?
They're not "improving" character models. If they were "improving" character models, you'd better believe it would have been the top thing on the bullet list. They're reducing aspects of character models, to the point they needed to completely reconfigure them a couple months ago. Do you see, in game, improvements on Erillion's cited second video, or even see models moving in such a way? No, and you will not, unless it's mocap. It's too demanding on the code.
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources. Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
Are you saying that improving art and assets as development continues is, somehow, unusual in the gaming industry?
Do you know anything at all about what it's like?
They're not "improving" character models. If they were "improving" character models, you'd better believe it would have been the top thing on the bullet list. They're reducing aspects of character models, to the point they needed to completely reconfigure them a couple months ago. Do you see, in game, improvements on Erillion's cited second video, or even see models moving in such a way? No, and you will not, unless it's mocap. It's too demanding on the code.
So, you're saying they're changing them so the end result is actually worse?
That's not what I heard. I heard they're trying to make everything better - both in terms of performance and content delivery.
To me, that's an improvement.
It's not an improvement to stubbornly hold on to an obviously inefficent and time-consuming method.
What shocks me the most is how we argue over a game that after 4 years there is still no real game.
Did you guys watch rtv yesterday? Roberts keep talking but never really said anything. He keep talking PU when there really isn't anything close to a PU.
Yeah, me too. I don't have any idea why people keep bitching about a game that's not actually there.
It's like the fact that we're seeing a tiny fraction of the game - in an ALPHA state - is being ignored constantly.
There are issues and the game isn't complete yet? In alpha?
Shocking
I doubt it'll be released sooner than 2018 - so you better save your breath for a lot of alpha-whining!
I really don't think they have enough money left to finish any game they hyped. Which is why they are looking for investors. IMHO
What shocks me the most is how we argue over a game that after 4 years there is still no real game.
Did you guys watch rtv yesterday? Roberts keep talking but never really said anything. He keep talking PU when there really isn't anything close to a PU.
Yeah, me too. I don't have any idea why people keep bitching about a game that's not actually there.
It's like the fact that we're seeing a tiny fraction of the game - in an ALPHA state - is being ignored constantly.
There are issues and the game isn't complete yet? In alpha?
Shocking
I doubt it'll be released sooner than 2018 - so you better save your breath for a lot of alpha-whining!
I really don't think they have enough money left to finish any game they hyped. Which is why they are looking for investors. IMHO
I can't tell you how much of an impression your completely baseless speculation about their internal resource situation makes on me
Let me guess, you have an "inside" source who provided you with "real facts", right?
You know everything about their finances - and you know exactly what they have left, right?
The kind of information you'd need to speak about this in an informed manner
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources. Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
Are you saying that improving art and assets as development continues is, somehow, unusual in the gaming industry?
Do you know anything at all about what it's like?
They're not "improving" character models. If they were "improving" character models, you'd better believe it would have been the top thing on the bullet list. They're reducing aspects of character models, to the point they needed to completely reconfigure them a couple months ago. Do you see, in game, improvements on Erillion's cited second video, or even see models moving in such a way? No, and you will not, unless it's mocap. It's too demanding on the code.
So, you're saying they're changing them so the end result is actually worse?
That's not what I heard. I heard they're trying to make everything better - both in terms of performance and content delivery.
To me, that's an improvement.
It's not an improvement to stubbornly hold on to an obviously inefficent and time-consuming method.
That's what I would call stupid.
I guess, then, the original concept, as in the video above, was a complete waste of time and resource because the designers were so incompetent that they couldn't anticipate they'd be having to do it twice? Not sure how many ways you can spin that. They spent two years doing it wrong, now doing it so it "works" is what you call improvement. Ok. I don't call that improvement, I call it screwed up, but ok.
Anyway, do you want to start a new thread about character models and how they've changed, discussing how much better the changes will make the game?
I can't tell you how much of an impression your completely baseless speculation about their internal resource situation makes on me
Let me guess, you have an "inside" source who provided you with "real facts", right?
You know everything about their finances - and you know exactly what they have left, right?
The kind of information you'd need to speak about this in an informed manner
No he has eyes, as does everyone else.
How much money do they need to put out whatever game they said they are going to eventually release? If its less than 100 million which it should be then why do they need more money right now?
If they are looking for investors (which they are) wouldnt it also behoove them to show something more than the tech demo they have now? And if they had more wouldnt they show it?
It might not even be nefarious. There are so many negatives about Roberts they cant all be true (can they) but mismanagement of funds and inability to finish a game on budget or in time are historically accurate assessments of him and his abilities. NO ONE can argue those points. So is it a leap to think he has blown through the claimed 110 million already? Or more than enough of it to realize he cant finish even one of the projected games he claimed he would make (with a fraction of that amount)?
The bottomline is while not everything being said is true enough of it is true that anyone with half a brain would realize the project is in trouble and will most definitely need more money. How much and for how long are the most pertinent unknowns. But I suspect if it took them 20 years and a billion dollars to make it the fans would find a way to justify it. But I would lay odds that even with that amount of time and that amount of money they still couldnt make anything remotely resembling the bill of good Roberts was selling 3 years ago.
You know as well as anyone alot of that work has been thrown out and they are working on new models that don't chew up so much resources.
--> You just described the everyday work of IMHO 50 % of the video gaming industry.
Why are you being like this? Also, what's it to do with in-game economy?
--> Well designed character models (/skeletons) & character generation + "Professional mod tools will be provided free to all players" (4 M$ stretch goals) = "player designed equipment and outfits" .... which hopefully i will be able to buy in game with in game money.... which has an effect on the in-game economy.
--> I am fascinated by the creativity of people if you give them even half a chance e.g. in "Second Life" you can buy player created stuff. And the Linden dollar of Second Life also has a conversion rate to real life cash ... and no ... real life cash has NOT ruined the Second Life Linden dollar.
--> long way down the pipeline is correct. They want to have a game first before they let them run it on private servers.
Parrot?
--> quote source ... or you just made that up yourself.
Get
lost, you have no right to imply that I'm lying because you, as much as
anyone should be aware that I have always been more than happy to back
up my comments and that should stand as proof that I don't write stuff
unless I know it can be proven. Work is hectic at the moment, I don't
have the freedom to watch videos and hunt down a quote, it was in AtV
or RtV within the last 3 months and referred to by Lando iirc.
-->
this game is not based on client-hosting peer-to-peer capability like
Elite:Dangerous is. You eventually will be able to run private SC
universes on your own server ... but this will essentially be a separate
copy of the game universe. While you will be able to download the code
upgrades, you will never ever be able to ever upload any of your own
"private" player data to the overall galaxy server. So yes, you COULD
give yourself 12 trillion UEC in your "private universe". But NO, those
12 trillion UEC will never appear in the official galaxy server.
If
you are unsure of what I mean then please ask me to clarify instead of
assuming you know what I'm referring to. Client hosted capability does
not mean peer-to-peer. It means hardware capabilities that are
available and affordable by your average Joe, whether that means a home
server, a rented server or a co-located server and typically restricted
to a single machine.
I can't tell you how much of an impression your completely baseless speculation about their internal resource situation makes on me
Let me guess, you have an "inside" source who provided you with "real facts", right?
You know everything about their finances - and you know exactly what they have left, right?
The kind of information you'd need to speak about this in an informed manner
No he has eyes, as does everyone else.
How much money do they need to put out whatever game they said they are going to eventually release? If its less than 100 million which it should be then why do they need more money right now?
If they are looking for investors (which they are) wouldnt it also behoove them to show something more than the tech demo they have now? And if they had more wouldnt they show it?
It might not even be nefarious. There are so many negatives about Roberts they cant all be true (can they) but mismanagement of funds and inability to finish a game on budget or in time are historically accurate assessments of him and his abilities. NO ONE can argue those points. So is it a leap to think he has blown through the claimed 110 million already? Or more than enough of it to realize he cant finish even one of the projected games he claimed he would make (with a fraction of that amount)?
The bottomline is while not everything being said is true enough of it is true that anyone with half a brain would realize the project is in trouble and will most definitely need more money. How much and for how long are the most pertinent unknowns. But I suspect if it took them 20 years and a billion dollars to make it the fans would find a way to justify it. But I would lay odds that even with that amount of time and that amount of money they still couldnt make anything remotely resembling the bill of good Roberts was selling 3 years ago.
Not everyone has eyes
Tell me, how do you know it "should be" less than 100 million dollars? How did you arrive at that?
We're talking one of the most - if not THE most - ambitious games of all time. You're saying you know what kind of budget is actually needed here?
Please educate us as to how you know this with certainty.
How do you know they're looking for investors? Please link your evidence.
I don't know if I have half a brain - maybe I don't. I certainly don't see the project is in trouble - though it very well could be.
I think my point is that we have no way of knowing - and I've seen zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Well, I was kinda worried after reading the Escapist article, until I realised who the primary source was.
Why are you citing those videos of evidence of "current character models". That is not what character models do in game now, that's not how they move, nor will it be. That was misleading, and you know it.
Also, if you want to compare SC as some space-faring Second Life, why are you always extolling virtues of combat and actual mmo gameplay? IF 90% of people thought for one minute this was all going to be "Second Life in space", you'd be arguing the aspects of a 2 million dollar crowdfunding, not a 110+ million crowdfunding. I just don't understand sometimes what you're trying to say or do in some of these rebuttals.
Why are you citing those videos of evidence of "current character models".
--> These videos have a timestamp. I suggest you read them.
That is not what character models do in game now, that's not how they move,
--> How they move is changing with each patch. Its called ...development process.
nor will it be.
--> Lend me your crystal ball please ... i cannot yet predict the future accurately.
That was misleading,
--> Only to those that want to be misled.
and you know it.
Also, if you want to compare SC as some space-faring Second Life, why are you always extolling virtues of combat and actual mmo gameplay? IF 90% of people thought for one minute this was all going to be "Second Life in space", you'd be arguing the aspects of a 2 million dollar crowdfunding, not a 110+ million crowdfunding. I just don't understand sometimes what you're trying to say or do in some of these rebuttals.
---> If you have followed my posts here for ANY length of time you will have seen that i am NOT extolling the virtues of combat in MMO's. Personally I am an explorer and builder, with PvE mixed in .. and some occasional PvP (been there, done that). Only recently this could be seen when I answered the list of "planned features" put together from the 10-for-the-Chairman videoblogs. It tells me you basically have no idea what i look for in a space sim game ... despite me having listed it several times.
--> What I say in this thread : It is ridiculous to believe that even a few BILLION UEC generated from converting real life money into UEC will influence the in game economy in any measurable way. Because even SINGLE PLAYERS will soon own several BILLION UEC individually after they figured out how the in game economy works. And i provided examples that EXACTLY THAT has happened in other space games before.
Comments
The last I heard was that private/modded servers were a long, long way down the pipeline, to the extent that they quipped one or more of the team would be dead by the time it happened (aka never).
They don't appear to be designing the game around client-hosted capability so I really don't see it happening.
Another wonderful idea bought to you courtesy of the Chris Roberts™ media machine.
They have a skeleton for years now. They are continually working on it and trying to improve it.
Have fun
that CIG tries to create this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
Including this:
"Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)"
I do not care about the technical details how they will do it. THAT is what i expect .... because THIS (and many other things) were in the crowdfunding project that i backed.
Have fun
Did you guys watch rtv yesterday? Roberts keep talking but never really said anything. He keep talking PU when there really isn't anything close to a PU.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Now, I have reasons for my opinions - and I can provide those reasons, but that's a very different thing.
I was just curious if your "facts" had anything solid behind them apart from speculation and what sounds like fantasy numbers. I mean, the project is constantly growing and changing - and you're surprised they can't accurately predict the final budget? I guess you don't have much experience with huge projects. That's an everyday occurrence with big titles.
So, they don't know what they're doing - but they're actually both smart and rotten?
I'm sorry, but that doesn't compute.
Are you saying that improving art and assets as development continues is, somehow, unusual in the gaming industry?
Do you know anything at all about what it's like?
Yeah, me too. I don't have any idea why people keep bitching about a game that's not actually there.
It's like the fact that we're seeing a tiny fraction of the game - in an ALPHA state - is being ignored constantly.
There are issues and the game isn't complete yet? In alpha?
Shocking
I doubt it'll be released sooner than 2018 - so you better save your breath for a lot of alpha-whining!
That's not what I heard. I heard they're trying to make everything better - both in terms of performance and content delivery.
To me, that's an improvement.
It's not an improvement to stubbornly hold on to an obviously inefficent and time-consuming method.
That's what I would call stupid.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Let me guess, you have an "inside" source who provided you with "real facts", right?
You know everything about their finances - and you know exactly what they have left, right?
The kind of information you'd need to speak about this in an informed manner
Anyway, do you want to start a new thread about character models and how they've changed, discussing how much better the changes will make the game?
How much money do they need to put out whatever game they said they are going to eventually release? If its less than 100 million which it should be then why do they need more money right now?
If they are looking for investors (which they are) wouldnt it also behoove them to show something more than the tech demo they have now? And if they had more wouldnt they show it?
It might not even be nefarious. There are so many negatives about Roberts they cant all be true (can they) but mismanagement of funds and inability to finish a game on budget or in time are historically accurate assessments of him and his abilities. NO ONE can argue those points. So is it a leap to think he has blown through the claimed 110 million already? Or more than enough of it to realize he cant finish even one of the projected games he claimed he would make (with a fraction of that amount)?
The bottomline is while not everything being said is true enough of it is true that anyone with half a brain would realize the project is in trouble and will most definitely need more money. How much and for how long are the most pertinent unknowns. But I suspect if it took them 20 years and a billion dollars to make it the fans would find a way to justify it. But I would lay odds that even with that amount of time and that amount of money they still couldnt make anything remotely resembling the bill of good Roberts was selling 3 years ago.
--> long way down the pipeline is correct. They want to have a game first before they let them run it on private servers.
Parrot?
--> quote source ... or you just made that up yourself.
Get lost, you have no right to imply that I'm lying because you, as much as anyone should be aware that I have always been more than happy to back up my comments and that should stand as proof that I don't write stuff unless I know it can be proven.
Work is hectic at the moment, I don't have the freedom to watch videos and hunt down a quote, it was in AtV or RtV within the last 3 months and referred to by Lando iirc.
--> this game is not based on client-hosting peer-to-peer capability like Elite:Dangerous is. You eventually will be able to run private SC universes on your own server ... but this will essentially be a separate copy of the game universe. While you will be able to download the code upgrades, you will never ever be able to ever upload any of your own "private" player data to the overall galaxy server. So yes, you COULD give yourself 12 trillion UEC in your "private universe". But NO, those 12 trillion UEC will never appear in the official galaxy server.
If you are unsure of what I mean then please ask me to clarify instead of assuming you know what I'm referring to. Client hosted capability does not mean peer-to-peer.
It means hardware capabilities that are available and affordable by your average Joe, whether that means a home server, a rented server or a co-located server and typically restricted to a single machine.
Proof ?
Can you present ANYTHING more than the usual baseless speculation and personal opinion ?
Have fun
Tell me, how do you know it "should be" less than 100 million dollars? How did you arrive at that?
We're talking one of the most - if not THE most - ambitious games of all time. You're saying you know what kind of budget is actually needed here?
Please educate us as to how you know this with certainty.
How do you know they're looking for investors? Please link your evidence.
I don't know if I have half a brain - maybe I don't. I certainly don't see the project is in trouble - though it very well could be.
I think my point is that we have no way of knowing - and I've seen zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Well, I was kinda worried after reading the Escapist article, until I realised who the primary source was.
Also, if you want to compare SC as some space-faring Second Life, why are you always extolling virtues of combat and actual mmo gameplay? IF 90% of people thought for one minute this was all going to be "Second Life in space", you'd be arguing the aspects of a 2 million dollar crowdfunding, not a 110+ million crowdfunding. I just don't understand sometimes what you're trying to say or do in some of these rebuttals.
--> What I say in this thread : It is ridiculous to believe that even a few BILLION UEC generated from converting real life money into UEC will influence the in game economy in any measurable way. Because even SINGLE PLAYERS will soon own several BILLION UEC individually after they figured out how the in game economy works. And i provided examples that EXACTLY THAT has happened in other space games before.
--> Have fun