We are talking about a 150% cost difference. Not 20,30,40,50 but 150. It's odd you think the dynamics of developing video games is somehow more complicated then developing a universe with a working economy. Yes if the economy of that universe is basic and simple but that isn't the plan at all. It is very complicated and involves many features. Which if done correctly will work but given the history of the project and the methods of raising cash I highly doubt they will stop making tons of money because they have finished the game. When you look closely at their projected economy it will require you to spend a ton of real money to hire the men to help you drive that 2000$ ship you paid for.
No, YOU are talking about a 150% cost difference.
I don't believe I've compared developing video games to developing an entire universe.
I have no idea what you mean by the "history of the project" as we're talking about a game in development. Maybe when it's out and it becomes an actual game, we can start talking about the history of it.
The difference between building a game and releasing it - and building an economy within the game - is that you only get one shot at the former, but you can constantly tweak the latter.
I don't think anyone with the slightest sense of realism expects a perfectly balanced economy when the game launches.
It's ironic that we're even talking about that on a site called MMORPG. I mean, has any MMO ever been released with a perfect balance of anything?
Seems a lot are still worth playing even so.
I guess i will explain this because it looks like you don't know. CIG claimed they could make this game for 20 million dollars. Now this involves a process of figuring out how much everything costs and the timing on how to deliver said products. They will make a schedule on development and figure out who needs to be hired and for what. Then there is taxes, properties, businesses, conracts. All of which are forseen and figured into this 20 million dollar budget. So here we are a few years later and 100 million dollars still isn't enough to finish this project that was suppose to cost 20 million dollars. Take your car to the mechanic and he tells you that he can fix your car for 3,000$. So you decide to go for it and when you return he tells you there were unforseen complications and now its going to cost you 15,000$. So with a smile you pay the money and are happy the car is fixed? No you fire the dude take him to court and sue and well there's endless possible hostile responses to such a thing. Given that situation an unforseen complication would cost no more then 500$ if the mechanic wants to avoid any kind of confrontation. So Chris Roberts can get away with having an unforseen complication that costs 80 million dollars? Its time to wake up already.
Now i compared this to building a working economy because they both evolve around economics and number projections. If you cant figure the cost of an advanced element then any kind of expert element is out of your educated level of estimation.
We are talking about a 150% cost difference. Not 20,30,40,50 but 150. It's odd you think the dynamics of developing video games is somehow more complicated then developing a universe with a working economy. Yes if the economy of that universe is basic and simple but that isn't the plan at all. It is very complicated and involves many features. Which if done correctly will work but given the history of the project and the methods of raising cash I highly doubt they will stop making tons of money because they have finished the game. When you look closely at their projected economy it will require you to spend a ton of real money to hire the men to help you drive that 2000$ ship you paid for.
No, YOU are talking about a 150% cost difference.
I don't believe I've compared developing video games to developing an entire universe.
I have no idea what you mean by the "history of the project" as we're talking about a game in development. Maybe when it's out and it becomes an actual game, we can start talking about the history of it.
The difference between building a game and releasing it - and building an economy within the game - is that you only get one shot at the former, but you can constantly tweak the latter.
I don't think anyone with the slightest sense of realism expects a perfectly balanced economy when the game launches.
It's ironic that we're even talking about that on a site called MMORPG. I mean, has any MMO ever been released with a perfect balance of anything?
Seems a lot are still worth playing even so.
I guess i will explain this because it looks like you don't know. CIG claimed they could make this game for 20 million dollars. Now this involves a process of figuring out how much everything costs and the timing on how to deliver said products. They will make a schedule on development and figure out who needs to be hired and for what. Then there is taxes, properties, businesses, conracts. All of which are forseen and figured into this 20 million dollar budget. So here we are a few years later and 100 million dollars still isn't enough to finish this project that was suppose to cost 20 million dollars. Take your car to the mechanic and he tells you that he can fix your car for 3,000$. So you decide to go for it and when you return he tells you there were unforseen complications and now its going to cost you 15,000$. So with a smile you pay the money and are happy the car is fixed? No you fire the dude take him to court and sue and well there's endless possible hostile responses to such a thing. Given that situation an unforseen complication would cost no more then 500$ if the mechanic wants to avoid any kind of confrontation. So Chris Roberts can get away with having an unforseen complication that costs 80 million dollars? Its time to wake up already.
Now i compared this to building a working economy because they both evolve around economics and number projections. If you cant figure the cost of an advanced element then any kind of expert element is out of your educated level of estimation.
Ehm, no, they didn't claim they could make this game for 20 million dollars. They've never - ever - mentioned what it would take to make the current game. All they've said is that they're not in trouble when it comes to money - and we've yet to see a SINGLE sign that they're not being truthful. Beyond that, they've said that all the money is being spent on making the game better.
Maybe you're talking about something from the past - way before the backers supported the expansion of the scope of the game. That was long ago - and maybe you missed that the game became something entirely different, at the behest of the vast majority of backers.
So, whatever past game you're talking about - it's not Star Citizen.
I take it you have nothing to back up your claims about the current game?
When you take the car to the garage and he quotes $3,000 do you expect it to cost the same if you ask them to upgrade the engine, put on some spoilers, put in a new music system, repaint to entire care sky blue and replace all the tyres with racing profiles?
Do you also expect the garage to do all the extra work in the same timescale?
The scope of the project has changed DRASTICALLY, the cost and the timescales for the project MUST be adjusted accordingly. Anyone who doesn't realise that simply doesn't have a clue how projects and project development works.
When you take the car to the garage and he quotes $3,000 do you expect it to cost the same if you ask them to upgrade the engine, put on some spoilers, put in a new music system, repaint to entire care sky blue and replace all the tyres with racing profiles?
Do you also expect the garage to do all the extra work in the same timescale?
The scope of the project has changed DRASTICALLY, the cost and the timescales for the project MUST be adjusted accordingly. Anyone who doesn't realise that simply doesn't have a clue how projects and project development works.
At the same time you wouldn't take your car to the garage and give them an open cheque. Constraints have to be put in place somewhere.
The scope only changed because CIG chose to change it, I remember Roberts saying that development was scaled according to their income and thinking that was an awful way to manage a project.
Anyhow, it's all irrelevant because this is the way they've decided to do things. Hopefully it all works out okay.
...which is somehow wayyyyy cooler than it looks right now. Regardless of what people "added", regardless of 45 million more in stretch goals, Roberts said this, in the video above, was deliverable. If funding had stopped, everything and more CIG has right now in 2.3.1, was supposed to be possible.
edit: Incidentally, here is a list of the stretch goals, which increased development time exponentially.
I think ship modularity , from 64mil to 65 mil ( so 1 million stretch goal ) is the only thing, besides a couple ships ( they lol sold for cash, even though they were a stretch goal game component ), which is currently in the alpha or even visible in the pipeline, of the goals past 20 million.
Yea you can see he promised that they didn't need any outside investors if he reached 20 million. That would equate to he doesn't need any more money to finish the game. So 20 million was the projected cost of the game and now you guys are saying that all that stuff added is suppose to cost 50 million+? The problem is all that stuff is normal stuff that should be in the game anyways. I mean look at that sad list. He has ships listed for stretch goals? one goal is 10k money units. Another goal is pets. Come on people you actually falling for this? Alien languages, universe map, Space station, space plant "live plant not production plant" engine tuning kit, an artifact. Yea all this stuff was added to the game making the cost of production to increase. WOW that is just WOW.
Yes, these are the things added to the game that give people an excuse to lambast people who ask, "is it done yet?". This list of things is the reason SQ42 wasn't released in Summer 2014. This list of things are the reason people give license to CIG to milk the project into eternity.
Combat isn't a stretch goal. Physics isn't a stretch goal. Connectivity isn't a stretch goal. Game balance isn't a stretch goal. Economy isn't a stretch goal. Having more than 1 "zone" (as crusader) isn't a stretch goal.
Yea you can see he promised that they didn't need any outside investors if he reached 20 million. That would equate to he doesn't need any more money to finish the game. So 20 million was the projected cost of the game and now you guys are saying that all that stuff added is suppose to cost 50 million+? The problem is all that stuff is normal stuff that should be in the game anyways. I mean look at that sad list. He has ships listed for stretch goals? one goal is 10k money units. Another goal is pets. Come on people you actually falling for this? Alien languages, universe map, Space station, space plant "live plant not production plant" engine tuning kit, an artifact. Yea all this stuff was added to the game making the cost of production to increase. WOW that is just WOW.
I take it from your post that you don't think adding features to a games development should: -
Look here is a link to the 20 million. It says clearly that was their projected cost of making the original game. And yes the original game has been added to but nothing like people are claiming. Only small things have been added and nothing that should have boosted the cost to over 100 million. http://gamerant.com/star-citizen-crowdfunding-milestones-records/
Look here is a link to the 20 million. It says clearly that was their projected cost of making the original game. And yes the original game has been added to but nothing like people are claiming. Only small things have been added and nothing that should have boosted the cost to over 100 million. http://gamerant.com/star-citizen-crowdfunding-milestones-records/
Based on your extensive knowledge of what is required to implement such features, what skills are needed to introduce such features, how to design such idea's into the overall game design, how to manage such variations and your general extensive project/game development experience....right?
Look here is a link to the 20 million. It says clearly that was their projected cost of making the original game. And yes the original game has been added to but nothing like people are claiming. Only small things have been added and nothing that should have boosted the cost to over 100 million. http://gamerant.com/star-citizen-crowdfunding-milestones-records/
It's a lost cause, they will disagree no matter what anyone says. I mean look around at all the bars and look what side majority is on. So no matter what is said they will argue to try and get as many as they can muted. It doesn't matter if we are 100% right (which I believe we are) they will keep fighting to get us muted.
Once you accept that all will be good. Maybe it is time we just post to each other and just ignore the rest.
Oh and NO this is not saying the mods are wrong. It means we are pushed till we do say something the mods believe we broke the rules. Also i think it is because we don't do the same to them and report.
LOL sort of like good guys vs bad guys. Think I seen this in an old Lone Ranger episode. :-D
Keep fighting the good fight - and when you're proven to be both irrational and wrong, you can always pretend the world is against you or something.
There really isn't a right or wrong here. It is we see CR as one type of person you guys see him as another. It won't be long before you see what I mean.
It's a lost cause, they will disagree no matter what anyone says. I mean look around at all the bars and look what side majority is on. So no matter what is said they will argue to try and get as many as they can muted. It doesn't matter if we are 100% right (which I believe we are) they will keep fighting to get us muted.
Once you accept that all will be good. Maybe it is time we just post to each other and just ignore the rest.
Oh and NO this is not saying the mods are wrong. It means we are pushed till we do say something the mods believe we broke the rules. Also i think it is because we don't do the same to them and report.
LOL sort of like good guys vs bad guys. Think I seen this in an old Lone Ranger episode. :-D
The only people getting muted, are those getting themselves muted... Stop using terms that are combative and you have nothing to worry about.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Keep fighting the good fight - and when you're proven to be both irrational and wrong, you can always pretend the world is against you or something.
There really isn't a right or wrong here. It is we see CR as one type of person you guys see him as another. It won't be long before you see what I mean.
To me, it's about what we can know and what we can't know. It's not about the future - it's about how so many of your bullshit claims are fabricated based on a strange obsessive desire to burn this game down.
I'm not claiming it will succeed or that Chris Roberts is a nice guy, I'm just pointing out that he's done a lot of work on highly successful games according to his resume - and that there's no sign of anything "shady" whatsoever. That's all in your head.
Every claim that they're in trouble seems based on fantasy budgets and secret insider knowledge that no one can actually share. There's not a SINGLE shred of evidence anywhere - unless you count the slander in the Escapist article that was never followed up on.
That doesn't mean it can't be a scam or that he's not an amazing con-artist who's also horrible to work for - it just means we can't know and we have no tangible evidence to support it.
All the certainty we have is the game in development - and I'm seeing constant progress and ever since SC 2.1, it should be obvious that they're not just driving Ferraris and banging hookers.
Think what you want of that early alpha - but only a madman would claim it's not based on actual work with interesting technology driving it.
It's a lost cause, they will disagree no matter what anyone says. I mean look around at all the bars and look what side majority is on. So no matter what is said they will argue to try and get as many as they can muted. It doesn't matter if we are 100% right (which I believe we are) they will keep fighting to get us muted.
Once you accept that all will be good. Maybe it is time we just post to each other and just ignore the rest.
Oh and NO this is not saying the mods are wrong. It means we are pushed till we do say something the mods believe we broke the rules. Also i think it is because we don't do the same to them and report.
LOL sort of like good guys vs bad guys. Think I seen this in an old Lone Ranger episode. :-D
The only people getting muted, are those getting themselves muted... Stop using terms that are combative and you have nothing to worry about.
Yeah I gust got flagged for saying someone makes shit up. The fact that I showed exactly that fact didn't make any difference, it was apparently how I said it. That is why you can get away with making stuff up but when you get personal you will get flagged.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers. After the KS was over we had no choice but to hang on and hope for the best, unless we wanted a refund. But why refund? We wanted a great space sim. So we are forced to wait. We are married to his increased vision. We have to believe he can deliver.
I personally just wanted what I pledged for, nothing more. But now I am forced to wait for what CR wanted. I hope he can deliver.
Obviously what should have happened is the actual KS vision should have been made first, THEN all the extra stuff added to it, like most games are developed. We already have a "modular" way of making SC. It would have been so easy to add "modules" to the base KS game. But for whatever reason CR wants the whole thing put out in one big chunk., not counting SC42 witch was always meant to be a separate game leading into the PU.
Again I am not a "hater" and I am not a fan of the whole BoS crowd and the utter shite they post sometimes but I do see where this particular issue is coming from. Trust me, not all Backers are OK with the increased scope of SC. We did not ask for it, we merely are patiently waiting it out.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers. After the KS was over we had no choice but to hang on and hope for the best, unless we wanted a refund. But why refund? We wanted a great space sim. So we are forced to wait. We are married to his increased vision. We have to believe he can deliver.
I personally just wanted what I pledged for, nothing more. But now I am forced to wait for what CR wanted. I hope he can deliver.
Obviously what should have happened is the actual KS vision should have been made first, THEN all the extra stuff added to it, like most games are developed. We already have a "modular" way of making SC. It would have been so easy to add "modules" to the base KS game. But for whatever reason CR wants the whole thing put out in one big chunk., not counting SC42 witch was always meant to be a separate game leading into the PU.
Again I am not a "hater" and I am not a fan of the whole BoS crowd and the utter shite they post sometimes but I do see where this particular issue is coming from. Trust me, not all Backers are OK with the increased scope of SC. We did not ask for it, we merely are patiently waiting it out.
That sums up how I feel about SC quite nicely.
---
Nobody can deny that Roberts has a bad history when it comes to management and over-promising/under-delivering and that's why a lot of people felt the original pitch was very feasible, it was restrained (for a Roberts game and no doubt people thought that maybe, just maybe, he had got a bit wiser). Then more and more money started rolling in and Star Citizen flew off into the land of Oz and now all people can do is hope the "vision" (lol) is realised.
Personally I think that what we get at release will be quite disappointing for a lot of people because so much has been promised but there is no way they can deliver all of that within a reasonable timeframe.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers.
This is incorrect and totally incoherent with what transpired.
When SC / SQ42 moved from KS to its own funding system, with only about 2.8 million raised at that point, a rather long and detailed "stretch goals & milestones" board was presented to us. And we voted for and sanctioned said goals, with our wallets. In fact, this was the point at which funding really picked up and started skyrocketing.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers.
This is incorrect and totally incoherent with what transpired.
When SC / SQ42 moved from KS to its own funding system, with only about 2.8 million raised at that point, a rather long and detailed "stretch goals & milestones" board was presented to us. And we voted for and sanctioned said goals, with our wallets. In fact, it was then when funding really picked up and skyrocketed.
EDIT:
Ya know what? You are partially correct. "We" does not equal "everyone" though. I did not vote for any such thing. I was forced to go along with the money train. That's OK though because I do want a great Space sim. Myself and the many like me can't counter the whales and "more money than sense" crowd. It sucks that we have to hope that CR can deliver on all of those pretty SG&M you all bought into (literally).
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers.
This is incorrect and totally incoherent with what transpired.
When SC / SQ42 moved from KS to its own funding system, with only about 2.8 million raised at that point, a rather long and detailed "stretch goals & milestones" board was presented to us. And we voted for and sanctioned said goals, with our wallets. In fact, it was then when funding really picked up and skyrocketed.
The stretch goals & milestones were things to be added to the KS version. Not a whole new game. Again, SG&M should have been added after the KS game was completed. The "goals" being "stretched" were monetary, not the actual scope of the KS game. You gave extra money to add to the KS game not to totally change it, or at least that is how it should have been.
I admit I might be wrong on this. I'm sure @Erillion or yourself will correct me with an actual post from CR/CIG/RSI if I am. But I'm pretty sure it was well into the SG&M before we were told that the KS game was killed. I know I got in well before it was.
Not how I remember it but I didn't really follow the stretch goals. I paid my £25 early on and the stretch goals were not really something I was too invested in. But I understand the effect such stretch goals would have on the cost and duration of the project so the moving goalposts are something I accept and why it annoys me when people seem to lack that simple understanding of project development.
As a backer and a glass half full/game will succeed person let me weigh in on what @Adjuvant1 and @Brenics and other BoS are trying to say:
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers.
This is incorrect and totally incoherent with what transpired.
When SC / SQ42 moved from KS to its own funding system, with only about 2.8 million raised at that point, a rather long and detailed "stretch goals & milestones" board was presented to us. And we voted for and sanctioned said goals, with our wallets. In fact, it was then when funding really picked up and skyrocketed.
The stretch goals & milestones were things to be added to the KS version. Not a whole new game. Again, SG&M should have been added after the KS game was completed. The "goals" being "stretched" were monetary, not the actual scope of the KS game. You gave extra money to add to the KS game not to totally change it, or at least that is how it should have been.
I admit I might be wrong on this. I'm sure @Erillion or yourself will correct me with an actual post from CR/CIG/RSI if I am. But I'm pretty sure it was well into the SG&M before we were told that the KS game was killed. I know I got in well before it was.
Not how I remember it but I didn't really follow the stretch goals. I paid my £25 early on and the stretch goals were not really something I was too invested in. But I understand the effect such stretch goals would have on the cost and duration of the project so the moving goalposts are something I accept and why it annoys me when people seem to lack that simple understanding of project development.
You posted while I was editing but you got the jist of what I was trying to say. I am in 100% agreement on all the SG as you said because I didn't "invest" in any of them. Again I was forced into them. That is why the best solution to this problem would have been to just make the KS version first THEN add all the SG&M to the finished product. Just think of all the fear and loathing that would have not happened if they had done so.
EDIT: I keep feeling the need to make sure it is understood that I support SC 100% and am not a hater. I do not want to join the BoS crowd! I just am disappointed in how they are going along with the production of it.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
You posted while I was editing but you got the jist of what I was trying to say. I am in 100% agreement on all the SG as you said because I didn't "invest" in any of them. Again I was forced into them. That is why the best solution to this problem would have been to just make the KS version first THEN add all the SG&M to the finished product. Just think of all the fear and loathing that would have not happened if they had done so.
True but the majority of backers wanted the other items. That is just the nature of KS unfortunately because you are getting involved at such an early stage of development. I totally understood and accepted that a lot can and will change but I understand your point. I just don't think you can get into a KS project and expect the get the exact product at the time of backing. Just part and parcel of how it works like you said.
Personally I love the idea of KS projects to get the games we really want but the whole transparency thing...yeah that can go. Too many people commenting with little to zero actual understanding of how it works given a voice to spout off ignorant statements about a process that they obviously do not understand.
I wish we could go back to the day of walking into a shop with a few pounds to spend on a game and look at what is on the shelf as finished products. Hell even finished products today come with shit like day 1 DLC content that is such a blatant rip off it amazes me people just accept it and part with their money.
To me, stuff like day 1 DLC content is much more deserving of complaint then a game in development having variations on budget and development time. The former is a pure money grab rip off and the latter is just part of the development process.
Comments
Now i compared this to building a working economy because they both evolve around economics and number projections. If you cant figure the cost of an advanced element then any kind of expert element is out of your educated level of estimation.
Maybe you're talking about something from the past - way before the backers supported the expansion of the scope of the game. That was long ago - and maybe you missed that the game became something entirely different, at the behest of the vast majority of backers.
So, whatever past game you're talking about - it's not Star Citizen.
I take it you have nothing to back up your claims about the current game?
Do you also expect the garage to do all the extra work in the same timescale?
The scope of the project has changed DRASTICALLY, the cost and the timescales for the project MUST be adjusted accordingly. Anyone who doesn't realise that simply doesn't have a clue how projects and project development works.
At the same time you wouldn't take your car to the garage and give them an open cheque. Constraints have to be put in place somewhere.
The scope only changed because CIG chose to change it, I remember Roberts saying that development was scaled according to their income and thinking that was an awful way to manage a project.
Anyhow, it's all irrelevant because this is the way they've decided to do things. Hopefully it all works out okay.
Yeh, at some point the stretch goals were around 20 million, and the "promised game" was supposed to look like this...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/18/star-citizen-reaches-19-million-in-funds
...which is somehow wayyyyy cooler than it looks right now. Regardless of what people "added", regardless of 45 million more in stretch goals, Roberts said this, in the video above, was deliverable. If funding had stopped, everything and more CIG has right now in 2.3.1, was supposed to be possible.
edit: Incidentally, here is a list of the stretch goals, which increased development time exponentially.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
I think ship modularity , from 64mil to 65 mil ( so 1 million stretch goal ) is the only thing, besides a couple ships ( they lol sold for cash, even though they were a stretch goal game component ), which is currently in the alpha or even visible in the pipeline, of the goals past 20 million.
Combat isn't a stretch goal. Physics isn't a stretch goal. Connectivity isn't a stretch goal. Game balance isn't a stretch goal. Economy isn't a stretch goal. Having more than 1 "zone" (as crusader) isn't a stretch goal.
1 - Cost more.
2 - Take longer to make.
Educate yourself if that is the case.
Oh my
Once you accept that all will be good. Maybe it is time we just post to each other and just ignore the rest.
Oh and NO this is not saying the mods are wrong. It means we are pushed till we do say something the mods believe we broke the rules. Also i think it is because we don't do the same to them and report.
LOL sort of like good guys vs bad guys. Think I seen this in an old Lone Ranger episode. :-D
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Keep fighting the good fight - and when you're proven to be both irrational and wrong, you can always pretend the world is against you or something.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm not claiming it will succeed or that Chris Roberts is a nice guy, I'm just pointing out that he's done a lot of work on highly successful games according to his resume - and that there's no sign of anything "shady" whatsoever. That's all in your head.
Every claim that they're in trouble seems based on fantasy budgets and secret insider knowledge that no one can actually share. There's not a SINGLE shred of evidence anywhere - unless you count the slander in the Escapist article that was never followed up on.
That doesn't mean it can't be a scam or that he's not an amazing con-artist who's also horrible to work for - it just means we can't know and we have no tangible evidence to support it.
All the certainty we have is the game in development - and I'm seeing constant progress and ever since SC 2.1, it should be obvious that they're not just driving Ferraris and banging hookers.
Think what you want of that early alpha - but only a madman would claim it's not based on actual work with interesting technology driving it.
CR took it upon himself to vastly increase the scope of SC. No one asked him to do so. Yes their was apparently a Forum post with a poll that the majority of backers did not vote in. That does not equal "asking" for anything. The amount of money received compelled him to do so. The amount of money received was to help make the original KS game. WE bought into his KS vision with lots of money. CR decided to increase the scope, not the backers. After the KS was over we had no choice but to hang on and hope for the best, unless we wanted a refund. But why refund? We wanted a great space sim. So we are forced to wait. We are married to his increased vision. We have to believe he can deliver.
I personally just wanted what I pledged for, nothing more. But now I am forced to wait for what CR wanted. I hope he can deliver.
Obviously what should have happened is the actual KS vision should have been made first, THEN all the extra stuff added to it, like most games are developed. We already have a "modular" way of making SC. It would have been so easy to add "modules" to the base KS game. But for whatever reason CR wants the whole thing put out in one big chunk., not counting SC42 witch was always meant to be a separate game leading into the PU.
Again I am not a "hater" and I am not a fan of the whole BoS crowd and the utter shite they post sometimes but I do see where this particular issue is coming from. Trust me, not all Backers are OK with the increased scope of SC. We did not ask for it, we merely are patiently waiting it out.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
That sums up how I feel about SC quite nicely.
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Nobody can deny that Roberts has a bad history when it comes to management and over-promising/under-delivering and that's why a lot of people felt the original pitch was very feasible, it was restrained (for a Roberts game and no doubt people thought that maybe, just maybe, he had got a bit wiser).
Then more and more money started rolling in and Star Citizen flew off into the land of Oz and now all people can do is hope the "vision" (lol) is realised.
Personally I think that what we get at release will be quite disappointing for a lot of people because so much has been promised but there is no way they can deliver all of that within a reasonable timeframe.
When SC / SQ42 moved from KS to its own funding system, with only about 2.8 million raised at that point, a rather long and detailed "stretch goals & milestones" board was presented to us. And we voted for and sanctioned said goals, with our wallets. In fact, this was the point at which funding really picked up and started skyrocketing.
Ya know what? You are partially correct. "We" does not equal "everyone" though. I did not vote for any such thing. I was forced to go along with the money train. That's OK though because I do want a great Space sim. Myself and the many like me can't counter the whales and "more money than sense" crowd. It sucks that we have to hope that CR can deliver on all of those pretty SG&M you all bought into (literally).
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
EDIT: I keep feeling the need to make sure it is understood that I support SC 100% and am not a hater. I do not want to join the BoS crowd! I just am disappointed in how they are going along with the production of it.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Personally I love the idea of KS projects to get the games we really want but the whole transparency thing...yeah that can go. Too many people commenting with little to zero actual understanding of how it works given a voice to spout off ignorant statements about a process that they obviously do not understand.
I wish we could go back to the day of walking into a shop with a few pounds to spend on a game and look at what is on the shelf as finished products. Hell even finished products today come with shit like day 1 DLC content that is such a blatant rip off it amazes me people just accept it and part with their money.
To me, stuff like day 1 DLC content is much more deserving of complaint then a game in development having variations on budget and development time. The former is a pure money grab rip off and the latter is just part of the development process.