At least a dozen gaming press articles specifically about that topic
So ... Lets find a new P2W aspect to discuss, shall we ?
TLDR: "Lets wait and see until a few weeks after launch day..."
Have fun
PS: >>>
>There are also rummors of add-ons, zones, items only available by additional payments, instead of it being part of single purchase like most mmo's did untill now, aka restrictions to base game pack content.>>>>
Add-ons are not rumour - they have been specifically mentioned by Chris Roberts years ago. And they are add-ons to the single player game Squadron 42. First add-on is named "Behind Enemy Lines".
Items only available for additional payment specifically contradicts a design principle of SC : "EVERYTHING will be available in game for in game money!" Feel free to link to a official source that mentions these items. Or zones.
That link isnt a very good example considering people can't just say what they want on the RSI forums. But yes this topic has been beaten to death. They plan on making a good economy that doesn't resemble pay to win. However I do not think they are smart enough to pull it off or the cash demon will possess Chris Roberts and he will continue to suck money from people. I don't think they will stop the current pay model simply because the game launched no I do not.
Roberts has a past, he has potential to make something good, but having a good game, and good payment model are two so different things.
The budget for SC went through the roof, and no the estimated budget for entire Destiny project should be above 450kk , if Eve online players migrate to SC it might very well archieve that, BUT
they are not stupid playerbase, and wont invest in p2w bs if it becomes one.
And if that day comes neither you ,nor i, nor anyone here will need speak about it anymore.
And with respect to the EVE playerbase migrating to SC .... they are already here. For years now. Including me. You seem to be a bit late to the party. And if you head over to the EVE Online subforum here on mmorpg.com, you will find many threads that accuse EVE Online of being NOTHING BUT P2W (an opinion i do not share).
A suggestion .... as you continously visit so many homepages and post there .. get some FACTS and BOOKMARK THE LINKS.
You can post your OPINIONS to your hearts content here and in other forums. But if you declare something a FACT, you better come up with the source for that fact so others can take a look and decide for themselves. Not everyone might believe everything just because you said so.
Another suggestion .... declaring that you have never been wrong in the last years .... such a statement may NOT yield the result you may have expected ..... credibility of statement and all those details .....
Have fun
I know, you are that happy camper being optimistic while meteors are falling down around you Optimism is good, but im pragmatist.
At least a dozen gaming press articles specifically about that topic
So ... Lets find a new P2W aspect to discuss, shall we ?
TLDR: "Lets wait and see until a few weeks after launch day..."
Have fun
PS: >>>
>There are also rummors of add-ons, zones, items only available by additional payments, instead of it being part of single purchase like most mmo's did untill now, aka restrictions to base game pack content.>>>>
Add-ons are not rumour - they have been specifically mentioned by Chris Roberts years ago. And they are add-ons to the single player game Squadron 42. First add-on is named "Behind Enemy Lines".
Items only available for additional payment specifically contradicts a design principle of SC : "EVERYTHING will be available in game for in game money!" Feel free to link to a official source that mentions these items. Or zones.
That link isnt a very good example considering people can't just say what they want on the RSI forums. But yes this topic has been beaten to death. They plan on making a good economy that doesn't resemble pay to win. However I do not think they are smart enough to pull it off or the cash demon will possess Chris Roberts and he will continue to suck money from people. I don't think they will stop the current pay model simply because the game launched no I do not.
People can't say what they want on any established forum that I'm aware of.
As for the rest, that's pretty useless.
I mean, it's clear that we have absolutely no way of knowing the future of this game. You assume they're too stupid and greedy - and I assume there's a good chance they know what they're doing.
People can't say what they want on any established forum that I'm aware of.
As for the rest, that's pretty useless.
I mean, it's clear that we have absolutely no way of knowing the future of this game. You assume they're too stupid and greedy - and I assume there's a good chance they know what they're doing.
But we'll never convince each other of that.
"People can't say what they want on any established forum that I'm aware of."
I... well dont ever remmember my posts, comments being censored on lets say almost ALL of gaming hubs, and im brutally honest when it comes to discussions.
( Tho there was that one time.... when i wrote in detail on release week that Archeage will fail in few months and how Trion could prevent it, with my text being objective, and with absolutely no hate speech nor flaming, giving them constructive answers on a plate, they banned me. We all know how that ended.Gameforge and Trion, only one goal in mind, transparent as glass.Making servers empty since 2k12)
Yes, fuck it, we will just wait it out, if they do the right thing we play, if they dont ,we maybe still play xD and cry alot, and than stop.
Would be a damn shame for entire universe to implode fast, yet unexplored.
--> In fact ... yes. You posted a search results with links. To estimates and opinions. I am familiar with most of the articles in that list. What you will NOT find in there is : FACTS. In fact .. that numbers listed in your list have been specifically been called incorrect by official sources: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/
anyway ,that isnt the issue.
--> I agree.
Also, that ~20% decline in Eve pop is just the start most will go over once they are certain SC is worth it.
--> You DO know that a decline in player number by a mere 20 % for a game over a decade old is UNHEARD OF in MMO gaming circles. That EVE is THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
--> And that no significant decline happened in the last year. In fact, the start of World War Bee in EVE caused an increase recently.
--> In fact ... yes. You posted a search results with links. To estimates and opinions. I am familiar with most of the articles in that list. What you will NOT find in there is : FACTS. In fact .. that numbers listed in your list have been specifically been called incorrect by official sources: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/
anyway ,that isnt the issue.
--> I agree.
Also, that ~20% decline in Eve pop is just the start most will go over once they are certain SC is worth it.
--> You DO know that a decline in player number by a mere 20 % for a game over a decade old is UNHEARD OF in MMO gaming circles. That EVE is THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
--> And that no significant decline happened in the last year. In fact, the start of World War Bee in EVE caused an increase recently.
I have been wrong ,my friends ,they tell me
--> /Emote bows
i am being too optimistic over new hyped titles.
--> Many are.
So theres that.
--> Have fun
Are you trying to prove me right and feeling proud about it ? I dont usually take things personal, but your somewhat funny
Also, that ~20% decline in Eve pop is just the start most will go over once they are certain SC is worth it.
You are out of your flippin mind if you think most EVE players will go over to SC permanently. You seriously do not understand the major differences between these two games and what draws people to EVE vs a space flight sim, of which there are already several good ones.
Are you trying to prove me right and feeling proud about it ? I dont usually take things personal, but your somewhat funny
You may want to re-read my post. Where i showed a picture of the official server online monitor over the last 12 months that directly contradicts your estimate of "~20% decline in Eve pop" due to SC.
And a statement by the producer of Destiny about the official budget for Destiny (and it being significantly less than the 500 M$ quoted in the gaming press).
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
U know its nice to see fancy ships and by all means i wish for everyone to have customised pretty space ships to populate the space.
But when the 10 0 0 0 $$$ worth of ships start shooting newbies repeadetely and preventing them from playing at all now thats just an ugly sight, and its gonna take a miracle for RSI to stop that from happening.
You say, screw newbies ! Only true hardcore players should play the game, and there we are on the same cycle ,going on and about the one same thing. With every possible result in my head being many players will get repulsed by the game model and disbalance and universe shall be left empty.
Thick scull is thick scull. Things dont penetrate them.
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
I knew this would be the response, it's a typical one.
Right now, on the link I left, these are PRE-ORDERS, they can call it what they want but it's true.
I don't blame them honestly, look at Kickstarter, they asked for $X and it was shattered and people wanted to throw more money at them. After looking and setting it up on their website they started releasing these "pledge" packages for insane amounts of money, I don't care how a ship looks it ain't worth a new car, because they knew they would sell.
As far as it being Alpha goes it should be alot farther along but adding more and more stuff, asking for more money in the process, is holding back anything from being remotely done.
There is NO LEGIT company that's making a VIDEO GAME that would ask for this amount of money, the most I've seen was $1K and they weren't even sold out.
As far as P2W no one can tell me that these $15k packages won't have exclusives in them that others can't get, it wouldn't make sense to even release them. You get what 30 or so things for $15k? That's stupid.
Anyway I don't wanna change anyone's mind cause I'm setting back waiting for one of 2 things to happen:
1- Greatest game ever gets released and gaming is forever changed
or
2- The biggest fraud ever in gaming happens and changes gaming forever
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
I knew this would be the response, it's a typical one.
Right now, on the link I left, these are PRE-ORDERS, they can call it what they want but it's true.
I don't blame them honestly, look at Kickstarter, they asked for $X and it was shattered and people wanted to throw more money at them. After looking and setting it up on their website they started releasing these "pledge" packages for insane amounts of money, I don't care how a ship looks it ain't worth a new car, because they knew they would sell.
There is NO LEGIT company that's making a VIDEO GAME that would ask for this amount of money, the most I've seen was $1K and they weren't even sold out.
As far as P2W no one can tell me that these $15k packages won't have exclusives in them that others can't get, it wouldn't make sense to even release them. You get what 30 or so things for $15k? That's stupid.
Anyway I don't wanna change anyone's mind cause I'm setting back waiting for one of 2 things to happen:
1- Greatest game ever gets released and gaming is forever changed
or
2- The biggest fraud ever in gaming happens and changes gaming forever
No, they're not pre-orders. Saying so doesn't make it true.
But if anyone has any authority on the matter, I'd say it's the people actually putting them forth. Interestingly enough, they're not calling them pre-orders - and they're clearly stating it's a PLEDGE when you pick one.
As for your opinion about what's legit - that's useless without legal underpinning.
Can you provide a legal argument that would hold up in a courtroom? If so, you have a point and maybe you should consider initiating legal proceedings against them.
Until then, you're trying to state your irrational opinions as facts.
That doesn't work when you're dealing with rational people.
They are not rumours of p2w, SC has set up the the most shockingly p2w system I have ever seen in a game - and it still hasn't even been released. It has pushed the p2w bar so high I can't even see it anymore.
The (concept of the) game itself seems nice and I am hoping it will provide some avenue to play it without having to contend with the p2w fleets (OP had a good suggestion of non-p2w servers).
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
I knew this would be the response, it's a typical one.
Right now, on the link I left, these are PRE-ORDERS, they can call it what they want but it's true.
I don't blame them honestly, look at Kickstarter, they asked for $X and it was shattered and people wanted to throw more money at them. After looking and setting it up on their website they started releasing these "pledge" packages for insane amounts of money, I don't care how a ship looks it ain't worth a new car, because they knew they would sell.
There is NO LEGIT company that's making a VIDEO GAME that would ask for this amount of money, the most I've seen was $1K and they weren't even sold out.
As far as P2W no one can tell me that these $15k packages won't have exclusives in them that others can't get, it wouldn't make sense to even release them. You get what 30 or so things for $15k? That's stupid.
Anyway I don't wanna change anyone's mind cause I'm setting back waiting for one of 2 things to happen:
1- Greatest game ever gets released and gaming is forever changed
or
2- The biggest fraud ever in gaming happens and changes gaming forever
No, they're not pre-orders. Saying so doesn't make it true.
But if anyone has any authority on the matter, I'd say it's the people actually putting them forth. Interestingly enough, they're not calling them pre-orders - and they're clearly stating it's a PLEDGE when you pick one.
As for your opinion about what's legit - that's useless without legal underpinning.
Can you provide a legal argument that would hold up in a courtroom? If so, you have a point and maybe you should consider initiating legal proceedings against them.
Until then, you're trying to state your irrational opinions as facts.
That doesn't work when you're dealing with rational people.
A $15k package and you don't even get everything ONLY the ability to but it from the store.
Frigging money-grab.
I have a steam game that's in Alpha, I payed $30 for, that playable. That's legit. This not so much.
I have bought pre-orders for games and that's EXACTLY what these packages are. IF THEY WERE NOT PRE ORDERS and only pledges they wouldn't tell you what you were getting because you'd be supporting them no matter what.
Look at the INSANE prices on stuff and the fact that players BOUGHT it!!!
You ARE familiar with the principle of CROWDFUNDING , are you not ?
Where people VOLUNTARILY give money for a project ? Some more than others .
Have fun
You do know that AFTER it was funded ships that were $10k dollars were sold right?
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
Are you asking for a full game when it's still in alpha development? What did you expect of a game of this scope? What else could they possibly release? They're releasing each build as they finish it.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
I knew this would be the response, it's a typical one.
Right now, on the link I left, these are PRE-ORDERS, they can call it what they want but it's true.
I don't blame them honestly, look at Kickstarter, they asked for $X and it was shattered and people wanted to throw more money at them. After looking and setting it up on their website they started releasing these "pledge" packages for insane amounts of money, I don't care how a ship looks it ain't worth a new car, because they knew they would sell.
There is NO LEGIT company that's making a VIDEO GAME that would ask for this amount of money, the most I've seen was $1K and they weren't even sold out.
As far as P2W no one can tell me that these $15k packages won't have exclusives in them that others can't get, it wouldn't make sense to even release them. You get what 30 or so things for $15k? That's stupid.
Anyway I don't wanna change anyone's mind cause I'm setting back waiting for one of 2 things to happen:
1- Greatest game ever gets released and gaming is forever changed
or
2- The biggest fraud ever in gaming happens and changes gaming forever
No, they're not pre-orders. Saying so doesn't make it true.
But if anyone has any authority on the matter, I'd say it's the people actually putting them forth. Interestingly enough, they're not calling them pre-orders - and they're clearly stating it's a PLEDGE when you pick one.
As for your opinion about what's legit - that's useless without legal underpinning.
Can you provide a legal argument that would hold up in a courtroom? If so, you have a point and maybe you should consider initiating legal proceedings against them.
Until then, you're trying to state your irrational opinions as facts.
That doesn't work when you're dealing with rational people.
A $15k package and you don't even get everything ONLY the ability to but it from the store.
Frigging money-grab.
I have a steam game that's in Alpha, I payed $30 for, that playable. That's legit. This not so much.
I have bought pre-orders for games and that's EXACTLY what these packages are. IF THEY WERE NOT PRE ORDERS and only pledges they wouldn't tell you what you were getting because you'd be supporting them no matter what.
Once again, saying something is so doesn't make it true. It doesn't help to put it in caps, either.
Obviously, you don't understand what a pledge is - and you don't understand that it's extremely common to have outrageous pledge levels for a crowdfunded game in case anyone is willing to support it on that level.
What you're saying is that if people are willing to pledge for 15K dollars - CIG should just refuse to get that support from them, right?
Because there's a ton of incentive to say no to more money for the game.
I'm sure you would say the same thing if a company asked an investor for 50 million dollars to make their dream game. It would be a money-grab, too right?
It's like you don't understand that the money goes into making the game better. You seem to think it's about something else.
Cool, but that's your baseless assumption and nothing more.
@rapatpamp ;In case you have not heard it yet - many crowdfunding projects have 10k$ or 15 k$ pledge levels. SC is no exception.
And the crowdfunding campaign for SC is still ongoing. It is not "in the past". If you meant Kickstarter .... That amounts to less than 2% of the money gathered for SC so far.
And even during the Kickstarter campaign we knew what was in the pledge package. Operative word here being "pledge". NOT pre-order. One does not "pre-order" in a crowdfunding campaign.
there are few guys which simply refuse to accept what has already happened, that SC is well on the way of one of the biggest P2W downfall in the history of gaming.
I have written on the beggining on the thread they will appear, and expected it.
Once you realise theres an apparent problem, you can work on a solution, or at least show interest you want one. Without realising you can never help improve it.
Supporting current RSI payment model will bring no good. And it makes me sad, to watch history repeat itself over and over in front of my eyes.
Even worse is the thing i know how bad and betrayed those zealous defenders might feel after the whole idea and most importantly consequences of P2W sink into them.
There is absolutely no harm done in rising voice and opposing P2W ideas outloud. That could only wake up devs and turn things for the better.
Otherwise they will learn the hard way, that empty servers ,make no profits, and that they have only one shot, at betraying trust of players, and once branded as corrupt or incompetent companies like Gameforge or Trion
There is no turning back.
But i must be imagining things, after all, when have customers ever been right.
Once again, saying something is so doesn't make it true. It doesn't help to put it in caps, either.
Obviously,
you don't understand what a pledge is - and you don't understand that
it's extremely common to have outrageous pledge levels for a crowdfunded
game in case anyone is willing to support it on that level.
What
you're saying is that if people are willing to pledge for 15K dollars -
CIG should just refuse to get that support from them, right?
Because there's a ton of incentive to say no to more money for the game.
I'm
sure you would say the same thing if a company asked an investor for 50
million dollars to make their dream game. It would be a money-grab, too
right?
It's like you don't understand that the money goes into making the game better. You seem to think it's about something else.
Cool, but that's your baseless assumption and nothing more.
Totally depends on how you view the word "pledge".
I think of it as applying in the following - CR: "If you give me $500 then I promise that I will make this spaceship available in game as close to the concept art as feasible and by <insert reasonable date>." The person making the pledge is the one receiving the money, they are the one promising goods in return for financial security, not the person handing over the money.
Because they are promising to deliver something in return for money it could very easily be viewed as a pre-order.
Totally depends on how you view the word "pledge". I think of it as applying in the following - CR: "If you give me $500 then I promise that I will make this spaceship available in game as close to the concept art as feasible and by <insert reasonable date>." The person making the pledge is the one receiving the money, they are the one promising goods in return for financial security, not the person handing over the money. Because they are promising to deliver something in return for money it could very easily be viewed as a pre-order.
"The threshold pledge or fund and release system is a way of making a fundraisingpledge as a group of individuals, often involving charitable goals or financing the provision of a public good. An amount of money is set as the goal or threshold
to reach for the specified purpose and interested individuals will
pitch in, but the money at first either remains with the pledgers or is
held in escrow.
When the threshold is reached, the pledges are called in (or
transferred from the escrow fund) and a contract is formed so that the
collective good is supplied; a variant is that the money is collected
when the good is actually delivered. If the threshold is not reached by a
certain date (or perhaps if no contract is ever signed, etc.), the
pledges are either never collected or, if held in escrow, are simply
returned to the pledgers. In economics, this type of model is known as an assurance contract.
This system is most often applied to creative works, both for financing new productions and for buying out existing works;...."
The text is longer .. but you will see that "pre-order" is never mentioned in it.
@rapatpamp ;In case you have not heard it yet - many crowdfunding projects have 10k$ or 15 k$ pledge levels. SC is no exception.
And the crowdfunding campaign for SC is still ongoing. It is not "in the past". If you meant Kickstarter .... That amounts to less than 2% of the money gathered for SC so far.
And even during the Kickstarter campaign we knew what was in the pledge package. Operative word here being "pledge". NOT pre-order. One does not "pre-order" in a crowdfunding campaign.
Have fun
Its ok to have high pledge levels, its not ok to sell end-game items under the guise of crowdfunding. If someone wants to pay to help fund a game that is wonderful, but it shouldn't be incentivized with perks such as extreme p2w equipment- that is setting a dangerous and unwanted precedent.
"Going into argument" .... how about bringing some facts and reasons first ? So far you posted your opinion. Which is perfectly OK.
You known .. "argument" ... presenting a set of reasons.
ar·gu·ment
ˈärɡyəmənt/
noun
noun: argument; plural noun: arguments
an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
So far you presented your view and have seen other views.
What your posts lack IMHO is a "set of reasons" that is strong enough to persuade others.
And to give you some ideas what this is all about:
Or one of many P2W threads here (you will see that this thread will contain the same "arguments" as dozens of other threads before it) ... saw @YashaX in this thread, so -->
Comments
Optimism is good, but im pragmatist.
About destiny... seriously, did you even try https://www.google.rs/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=qXGNVvX9G6u8ygO0prGABw#q=Destiny+budget+estimate
anyway ,that isnt the issue.
Also, that ~20% decline in Eve pop is just the start most will go over once they are certain SC is worth it.
https://www.google.rs/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=qXGNVvX9G6u8ygO0prGABw#q=Eve+online+population+decline+2016
I have been wrong ,my friends ,they tell me
i am being too optimistic over new hyped titles.
So theres that.
As for the rest, that's pretty useless.
I mean, it's clear that we have absolutely no way of knowing the future of this game. You assume they're too stupid and greedy - and I assume there's a good chance they know what they're doing.
But we'll never convince each other of that.
I... well dont ever remmember my posts, comments being censored on lets say almost ALL of gaming hubs, and im brutally honest when it comes to discussions.
( Tho there was that one time.... when i wrote in detail on release week that Archeage will fail in few months and how Trion could prevent it, with my text being objective, and with absolutely no hate speech nor flaming, giving them constructive answers on a plate, they banned me.
We all know how that ended.Gameforge and Trion, only one goal in mind, transparent as glass.Making servers empty since 2k12)
Yes, fuck it, we will just wait it out, if they do the right thing we play, if they dont ,we maybe still play xD and cry alot, and than stop.
Would be a damn shame for entire universe to implode fast, yet unexplored.
--> Have fun
I dont usually take things personal, but your somewhat funny
And a statement by the producer of Destiny about the official budget for Destiny (and it being significantly less than the 500 M$ quoted in the gaming press).
Have fun
Lets wait it out.
Sold out btw.
They keep taking money but show nothing but demos.
In fact it's upto $15k https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/game-packages
Now mind you this IS NOT crowdfunding as that was done a while ago.
As for the PLEDGE ships - they're there for people who want to BACK the game with more money. They're not meant to reflect price or in-game value 1:1 - but to reflect your level of support.
The reason they're sold out is that they're trying to limit the amount of fancy looking ships flying around at launch.
But when the 10 0 0 0 $$$ worth of ships start shooting newbies repeadetely and preventing them from playing at all now thats just an ugly sight, and its gonna take a miracle for RSI to stop that from happening.
You say, screw newbies ! Only true hardcore players should play the game, and there we are on the same cycle ,going on and about the one same thing. With every possible result in my head being many players will get repulsed by the game model and disbalance and universe shall be left empty.
Thick scull is thick scull. Things dont penetrate them.
But thats why we have kooncoon!
Enjoy, hope you have fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9GqaJaS4bs
and if some of you are too lazy to watch as you are to find sources of my info,
lets just say the guy in the video uses mostly only 1 button to win in the game
now project that onto SC current state. :awesome:
Right now, on the link I left, these are PRE-ORDERS, they can call it what they want but it's true.
I don't blame them honestly, look at Kickstarter, they asked for $X and it was shattered and people wanted to throw more money at them. After looking and setting it up on their website they started releasing these "pledge" packages for insane amounts of money, I don't care how a ship looks it ain't worth a new car, because they knew they would sell.
As far as it being Alpha goes it should be alot farther along but adding more and more stuff, asking for more money in the process, is holding back anything from being remotely done.
There is NO LEGIT company that's making a VIDEO GAME that would ask for this amount of money, the most I've seen was $1K and they weren't even sold out.
As far as P2W no one can tell me that these $15k packages won't have exclusives in them that others can't get, it wouldn't make sense to even release them. You get what 30 or so things for $15k? That's stupid.
Anyway I don't wanna change anyone's mind cause I'm setting back waiting for one of 2 things to happen:
1- Greatest game ever gets released and gaming is forever changed
or
2- The biggest fraud ever in gaming happens and changes gaming forever
I'm betting #2.
But if anyone has any authority on the matter, I'd say it's the people actually putting them forth. Interestingly enough, they're not calling them pre-orders - and they're clearly stating it's a PLEDGE when you pick one.
As for your opinion about what's legit - that's useless without legal underpinning.
Can you provide a legal argument that would hold up in a courtroom? If so, you have a point and maybe you should consider initiating legal proceedings against them.
Until then, you're trying to state your irrational opinions as facts.
That doesn't work when you're dealing with rational people.
The (concept of the) game itself seems nice and I am hoping it will provide some avenue to play it without having to contend with the p2w fleets (OP had a good suggestion of non-p2w servers).
Please read to the side what's included.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Combos/The-Completionist-Digital
A $15k package and you don't even get everything ONLY the ability to but it from the store.
Frigging money-grab.
I have a steam game that's in Alpha, I payed $30 for, that playable. That's legit. This not so much.
I have bought pre-orders for games and that's EXACTLY what these packages are. IF THEY WERE NOT PRE ORDERS and only pledges they wouldn't tell you what you were getting because you'd be supporting them no matter what.
Again I pick #2.
Obviously, you don't understand what a pledge is - and you don't understand that it's extremely common to have outrageous pledge levels for a crowdfunded game in case anyone is willing to support it on that level.
What you're saying is that if people are willing to pledge for 15K dollars - CIG should just refuse to get that support from them, right?
Because there's a ton of incentive to say no to more money for the game.
I'm sure you would say the same thing if a company asked an investor for 50 million dollars to make their dream game. It would be a money-grab, too right?
It's like you don't understand that the money goes into making the game better. You seem to think it's about something else.
Cool, but that's your baseless assumption and nothing more.
And the crowdfunding campaign for SC is still ongoing. It is not "in the past". If you meant Kickstarter .... That amounts to less than 2% of the money gathered for SC so far.
And even during the Kickstarter campaign we knew what was in the pledge package. Operative word here being "pledge". NOT pre-order. One does not "pre-order" in a crowdfunding campaign.
Have fun
there are few guys which simply refuse to accept what has already happened, that SC is well on the way of one of the biggest P2W downfall in the history of gaming.
I have written on the beggining on the thread they will appear, and expected it.
Once you realise theres an apparent problem, you can work on a solution, or at least show interest you want one. Without realising you can never help improve it.
Supporting current RSI payment model will bring no good. And it makes me sad, to watch history repeat itself over and over in front of my eyes.
Even worse is the thing i know how bad and betrayed those zealous defenders might feel after the whole idea and most importantly consequences of P2W sink into them.
There is absolutely no harm done in rising voice and opposing P2W ideas outloud. That could only wake up devs and turn things for the better.
Otherwise they will learn the hard way, that empty servers ,make no profits, and that they have only one shot, at betraying trust of players, and once branded as corrupt or incompetent companies like Gameforge or Trion
There is no turning back.
But i must be imagining things, after all, when have customers ever been right.
Totally depends on how you view the word "pledge".
I think of it as applying in the following - CR: "If you give me $500 then I promise that I will make this spaceship available in game as close to the concept art as feasible and by <insert reasonable date>."
The person making the pledge is the one receiving the money, they are the one promising goods in return for financial security, not the person handing over the money.
Because they are promising to deliver something in return for money it could very easily be viewed as a pre-order.
"The threshold pledge or fund and release system is a way of making a fundraising pledge as a group of individuals, often involving charitable goals or financing the provision of a public good. An amount of money is set as the goal or threshold to reach for the specified purpose and interested individuals will pitch in, but the money at first either remains with the pledgers or is held in escrow.
When the threshold is reached, the pledges are called in (or transferred from the escrow fund) and a contract is formed so that the collective good is supplied; a variant is that the money is collected when the good is actually delivered. If the threshold is not reached by a certain date (or perhaps if no contract is ever signed, etc.), the pledges are either never collected or, if held in escrow, are simply returned to the pledgers. In economics, this type of model is known as an assurance contract.
This system is most often applied to creative works, both for financing new productions and for buying out existing works;...."The text is longer .. but you will see that "pre-order" is never mentioned in it.
However - the discussion is ongoing e.g.
https://backersmanual.com/2014/03/01/crowdfunding-is-not-a-pre-order/
and you will see people arguing (see above) for considering this as a "pre-order" to reduce the inherent risk in crowdfunding.
Have fun
"Going into argument" .... how about bringing some facts and reasons first ? So far you posted your opinion. Which is perfectly OK.
You known .. "argument" ... presenting a set of reasons.
an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
So far you presented your view and have seen other views.What your posts lack IMHO is a "set of reasons" that is strong enough to persuade others.
And to give you some ideas what this is all about:
Or one of many P2W threads here (you will see that this thread will contain the same "arguments" as dozens of other threads before it) ... saw @YashaX in this thread, so -->
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/445420/p2w-and-star-citizen/p1