Some wording, in key areas on the RSI site did change to "pledge" in January. That was discussed, in a couple threads, a few months ago. So, when you're ready to get a refund, do you have a screenshot of the ToS to which you agreed?
As ive posted before.. call it what ever you want. I will follow my account and purchase receipt and that is a pre-order. Maybe they changed the wording since i brought in... but to me i brought into a product they have every intent on releasing once its ready and allowed me to pre-order.
I have every expectation of a finished product and think they will deliver a finished product.. which is why i pre-ordered after the free fly event around time of purchase. I don't consider myself as crowdfunding into a maybe.. but that is my personal view.
This is what you are doing on the website/kickstarter. You are giving money in return for a product or service. There is a kickstarter contract that states if you don't receive your items that you are entitled to a refund, this is why.
Too bad that at the end of a failed crowdfunding project there is usually no money left to refund (i am not speaking about intentional fraud here ... i talk about teams that fail despite their best efforts, as has happened in the past).
Which makes this definition not really applicable to crowdfunding projects.
Have fun
Well it might be a blessing in disguise that Roberts spent all that money on the crap he did so at least here will be some assets to sell off to help recoup some of the money that is going to be lost once this thing goes tits up.
They could do it in conjunction with Pawn Stars or Beverly Hills Pawn where Roberts takes in his 16K coffee maker tells his sad story and gives the history of it and get offered 5K for it. But 5K divided by all the backers isnt going to be a lot per person.
EDIT: Actually Sandi would do the pawning because then she would have another 'acting' credit to add to her resume'
Hey, can I debunk this 16K coffee maker thing? So we can assume that the company is paying for coffee, right? So they've likely ordered an industrial coffee maker? That's just my guess. I haven't really done any research on the unit, but I'm assuming that it's pretty sweet and probably has a significant warranty.
SO!!! let's do some maths and compare single-serve coffee machines versus this $16k monstrosity. Unit cost is negligible, so let's say zero cost Keurig system. Now! It's estimated that the cost, per pound, of a single-serve system is $51 per pound. I can buy a a 2-pound bag of ground coffee on Amazon from Marley (yeah mon!) for $31.
The company I work for, I happened across some information a while back which indicated that we go through 22 gallons of coffee per day for our engineering organization. I know that sounds like a lot, but it amounts for about 500 cups of coffee. That's an average of about 1 cup per person. NOW! Assuming that CIG is paying for coffee (because that's generally what tech companies do) this $16k coffee maker would pay for itself within a 6-month period.
NOW!!!!! More than that, single-serve coffee brewers take about 30 seconds to brew a single serving, compared to the seconds to pour one, never mind if you've got a couple people waiting. So this ends up translating to, say, 2 hours a day, or around $100 per day of people sitting around.
Should you go with a commercial brewer? Yes, with that volume they definitely should. Are there less expensive units? Yes, for sure. However, if your staff enjoys high-end coffee, then it's totally worthwhile and appreciated. I remember when I worked in eCommerce our CEO would fly in beans from Portugal on a monthly basis. So we could do some math around employee satisfaction numbers, but I've done enough math for today.
Some wording, in key areas on the RSI site did change to "pledge" in January. That was discussed, in a couple threads, a few months ago. So, when you're ready to get a refund, do you have a screenshot of the ToS to which you agreed?
As ive posted before.. call it what ever you want. I will follow my account and purchase receipt and that is a pre-order. Maybe they changed the wording since i brought in... but to me i brought into a product they have every intent on releasing once its ready and allowed me to pre-order.
I have every expectation of a finished product and think they will deliver a finished product.. which is why i pre-ordered after the free fly event around time of purchase. I don't consider myself as crowdfunding into a maybe.. but that is my personal view.
Do i need one? I have no intentions of trying to get a refund like people around here think every backer should be... shocking but i actually like what im seeing, progress they have done and waiting for patiently for release.
Why would i want to refund at this time? Since i brought in, they have been putting playable developed patches out regularly and i don't see why they would stop development now they got the whole thing rolling.
Would be silly putting money down on something i knew was in development and then asking for the money back when i see the development is pushing forward. I have zero reason to even think of asking for the money back.
It has a perfect formula for pay to win. According to my calculations it will require you to pay anywhere from 50-100$ a month to enjoy this game. So you get a ship run out and well the ship gets damaged and needs to be repaired which requires money. The skill to repair the ship also requires money and the tool to repair the ship will require money. The materials to repair the ship will also require money. So the repair tool will be destroyed after a few uses and you will need to buy a new one or repair the old one. And this is just a small ship we haven't even begun to talk about ammunition or salvage costs.
So you have a nice big ship that requires 10 people to fly it. You can pay more money and get npc crew to help fly the ship or you can get 10 friends who probably won't feel like sitting there looking at a radar while someone else is shooting the guns and another player is probably running off with all the repair tools because he himself is a tool and scamming is legal.
In a logical conclusion this game has everything it needs to be a pay to win game. However if done properly it will not be pay to win which I highly doubt because anyone willing to sell ships that do not exist will also be willing to sell ships that do exist and create an economy that evolves around purchasing of such items.
Hey, can I debunk this 16K coffee maker thing? So we can assume that the company is paying for coffee, right? So they've likely ordered an industrial coffee maker? That's just my guess. I haven't really done any research on the unit, but I'm assuming that it's pretty sweet and probably has a significant warranty.
SO!!! let's do some maths and compare single-serve coffee machines versus this $16k monstrosity. Unit cost is negligible, so let's say zero cost Keurig system. Now! It's estimated that the cost, per pound, of a single-serve system is $51 per pound. I can buy a a 2-pound bag of ground coffee on Amazon from Marley (yeah mon!) for $31.
The company I work for, I happened across some information a while back which indicated that we go through 22 gallons of coffee per day for our engineering organization. I know that sounds like a lot, but it amounts for about 500 cups of coffee. That's an average of about 1 cup per person. NOW! Assuming that CIG is paying for coffee (because that's generally what tech companies do) this $16k coffee maker would pay for itself within a 6-month period.
NOW!!!!! More than that, single-serve coffee brewers take about 30 seconds to brew a single serving, compared to the seconds to pour one, never mind if you've got a couple people waiting. So this ends up translating to, say, 2 hours a day, or around $100 per day of people sitting around.
Should you go with a commercial brewer? Yes, with that volume they definitely should. Are there less expensive units? Yes, for sure. However, if your staff enjoys high-end coffee, then it's totally worthwhile and appreciated. I remember when I worked in eCommerce our CEO would fly in beans from Portugal on a monthly basis. So we could do some math around employee satisfaction numbers, but I've done enough math for today.
The simple rebuttal to that nonsense argument that everyone has tried to make is They could have gone to Sears and gotten a Mr Coffee for under 100 bucks and it would have done the same thing. If that wasnt enough thtey could have bought 160 of those Mr Coffees. Somehow I doubt they would have needed to.
This crazy math shit you guys come up with to justify it works the same for a 10 dollar pawn shop coffee maker as it does for a 16K one.
Hey, can I debunk this 16K coffee maker thing? So we can assume that the company is paying for coffee, right? So they've likely ordered an industrial coffee maker? That's just my guess. I haven't really done any research on the unit, but I'm assuming that it's pretty sweet and probably has a significant warranty.
SO!!! let's do some maths and compare single-serve coffee machines versus this $16k monstrosity. Unit cost is negligible, so let's say zero cost Keurig system. Now! It's estimated that the cost, per pound, of a single-serve system is $51 per pound. I can buy a a 2-pound bag of ground coffee on Amazon from Marley (yeah mon!) for $31.
The company I work for, I happened across some information a while back which indicated that we go through 22 gallons of coffee per day for our engineering organization. I know that sounds like a lot, but it amounts for about 500 cups of coffee. That's an average of about 1 cup per person. NOW! Assuming that CIG is paying for coffee (because that's generally what tech companies do) this $16k coffee maker would pay for itself within a 6-month period.
NOW!!!!! More than that, single-serve coffee brewers take about 30 seconds to brew a single serving, compared to the seconds to pour one, never mind if you've got a couple people waiting. So this ends up translating to, say, 2 hours a day, or around $100 per day of people sitting around.
Should you go with a commercial brewer? Yes, with that volume they definitely should. Are there less expensive units? Yes, for sure. However, if your staff enjoys high-end coffee, then it's totally worthwhile and appreciated. I remember when I worked in eCommerce our CEO would fly in beans from Portugal on a monthly basis. So we could do some math around employee satisfaction numbers, but I've done enough math for today.
The simple rebuttal to that nonsense argument that everyone has tried to make is They could have gone to Sears and gotten a Mr Coffee for under 100 bucks and it would have done the same thing. If that wasnt enough thtey could have bought 160 of those Mr Coffees. Somehow I doubt they would have needed to.
This crazy math shit you guys come up with to justify it works the same for a 10 dollar pawn shop coffee maker as it does for a 16K one.
So why don't coffee shops just buy Mr Coffees?
If they had done that then I'm sure that the argument would be that they were littering the landfills with sub-standard coffee makers. Again, it's a circular argument.
Also, it's not crazy math shit, that's real math shit. I don't understand why it's crazy when it's real numbers. It's not like I'm injecting hypothetical data. If I actually wanted to take into consideration an average American, the number of coffees per day would be 2.1 which is more than double the numbers I was using. So I was being somewhat conservative.
So I guess CIG is guilty for being environmentally friendly, too.
Anyway, not sure why we're still bitching and moaning over doors and coffee and murals. Guess anything else relevant has been exhausted?
If they were starbucks or a coffee bean then that comment might hold some weight.
Imagine if they had only raised 10 million and were spending money on the frivolous crap they have spent money on hat would people say?
The REASON they spent that much money is pretty simple... they HAD that much money. It has nothign to do with saving money or getting a 'quality' maker. Its because they have sucked over a hundred million (allegedly) out of people so they feel they have enough to buy over priced crap. Despite the fact they havent even got a foundation for the game itself made yet. Or that now nearly 5 years in they realize they cant deliver what they claimed so nows its going to be a simple 'minimally viable product' release.
There is absolutely no logical or reasonable justification anyone can make that would make spending the amount of money they have on 'creature comforts' make sense. To anyone that has any sense that is. The fact that so many people who have sent them money are trying to justify it sort of proves what I have been saying all along, people (still) supporting this game dont have any common sense whatsoever. Especially now. The first year or so ne could have made a semi reasonable argument but not with all the stuff we have seen andnot seen the past couple years in regards to this fiasco.
If they were starbucks or a coffee bean then that comment might hold some weight.
Imagine if they had only raised 10 million and were spending money on the frivolous crap they have spent money on hat would people say?
The REASON they spent that much money is pretty simple... they HAD that much money. It has nothign to do with saving money or getting a 'quality' maker. Its because they have sucked over a hundred million (allegedly) out of people so they feel they have enough to buy over priced crap. Despite the fact they havent even got a foundation for the game itself made yet. Or that now nearly 5 years in they realize they cant deliver what they claimed so nows its going to be a simple 'minimally viable product' release.
There is absolutely no logical or reasonable justification anyone can make that would make spending the amount of money they have on 'creature comforts' make sense. To anyone that has any sense that is. The fact that so many people who have sent them money are trying to justify it sort of proves what I have been saying all along, people (still) supporting this game dont have any common sense whatsoever. Especially now. The first year or so ne could have made a semi reasonable argument but not with all the stuff we have seen andnot seen the past couple years in regards to this fiasco.
Well, it'll either all come tumbling down or it won't. My issue is that the Internet is now policing how people spend their money? With regards to the Minimally Viable Product. What? 2 weeks ago? The attacks against SC surrounded not delivering a game. They couldn't do it. Then the announcement comes down that they will be shooting to release an MVP and now that focus shifts from not being able to deliver something to "Ohhhhh!!!! So now we get an MVP????" Like fuck me! What do you people want? You either want a game or you don't. It's been shown how there are a multitude of games, including ED, which launched using an MVP. Why? Because it's fucking smart and it's what should have been done from the beginning. However, do NOT allow CIG to correct those errors! Do NOT allow them to take corrective action to deliver a game!
As far as creature comforts go, Google is the best example of how these work. I know! Google makes their own money...... However, CIG makes their own money too and whether that be by bare-backing some unsuspecting consumer or whether it be milking existing ones. You should have zero say in how people spend their money, as much as I can tell you what you should be saying on here. You have no idea what's involved with running a business, what it takes to operate a successful business, how difficult it is to recruit talent, and how difficult it is to minimize turnover. That last statement is entirely speculative, but if you had ANY clue about working in technology, you'd appreciate that you will go to any extent to keep good, talented people in your company and you'd ALSO understand how much of a buyers market it is at this very moment. If that means I have to give some people some pet projects like a fuckin' mural or an automated door that costs all of a couple hundred bucks. Shit! Go for it!! Knock yourselves out!
It has a perfect formula for pay to win. According to my calculations it will require you to pay anywhere from 50-100$ a month to enjoy this game. So you get a ship run out and well the ship gets damaged and needs to be repaired which requires money. The skill to repair the ship also requires money and the tool to repair the ship will require money. The materials to repair the ship will also require money. So the repair tool will be destroyed after a few uses and you will need to buy a new one or repair the old one. And this is just a small ship we haven't even begun to talk about ammunition or salvage costs.
So you have a nice big ship that requires 10 people to fly it. You can pay more money and get npc crew to help fly the ship or you can get 10 friends who probably won't feel like sitting there looking at a radar while someone else is shooting the guns and another player is probably running off with all the repair tools because he himself is a tool and scamming is legal.
In a logical conclusion this game has everything it needs to be a pay to win game. However if done properly it will not be pay to win which I highly doubt because anyone willing to sell ships that do not exist will also be willing to sell ships that do exist and create an economy that evolves around purchasing of such items.
This is some serious and well presented info. I presume you have links to this so we can check for ourselves. [mod edit]
It has a perfect formula for pay to win. According to my calculations it will require you to pay anywhere from 50-100$ a month to enjoy this game. So you get a ship run out and well the ship gets damaged and needs to be repaired which requires money. The skill to repair the ship also requires money and the tool to repair the ship will require money. The materials to repair the ship will also require money. So the repair tool will be destroyed after a few uses and you will need to buy a new one or repair the old one. And this is just a small ship we haven't even begun to talk about ammunition or salvage costs.
So you have a nice big ship that requires 10 people to fly it. You can pay more money and get npc crew to help fly the ship or you can get 10 friends who probably won't feel like sitting there looking at a radar while someone else is shooting the guns and another player is probably running off with all the repair tools because he himself is a tool and scamming is legal.
In a logical conclusion this game has everything it needs to be a pay to win game. However if done properly it will not be pay to win which I highly doubt because anyone willing to sell ships that do not exist will also be willing to sell ships that do exist and create an economy that evolves around purchasing of such items.
This is some serious and well presented info. I presume you have links to this so we can check for ourselves.
If not then you Sir are a liar, and a poor one at that.
Ship upkeep is common knowledge. Paying npc's to help you fly the ship is also common knowledge. You know common knowldedge doesn't require links.
Well, it'll either all come tumbling down or it won't. My issue is that the Internet is now policing how people spend their money? With regards to the Minimally Viable Product. What? 2 weeks ago? The attacks against SC surrounded not delivering a game. They couldn't do it. Then the announcement comes down that they will be shooting to release an MVP and now that focus shifts from not being able to deliver something to "Ohhhhh!!!! So now we get an MVP????" Like fuck me! What do you people want? You either want a game or you don't. It's been shown how there are a multitude of games, including ED, which launched using an MVP. Why? Because it's fucking smart and it's what should have been done from the beginning. However, do NOT allow CIG to correct those errors! Do NOT allow them to take corrective action to deliver a game!
They might not make a game we dont know yet. But IF they do they made sure that as long as they deliver the bare minimum they will have met this goal he stated.
I have stated all along they will deliver something, what that is we dont know. But I doubt its 64 bit, I doubts its an MMO, I doubt it has even a small percentage of the things they say it will have.
If they deliver SQ 42 and try and go forward and fail then the pros can all say at least they delivered something. Yeah that something was a single player game (that was originally a stretch goal mod that was downgraded) not the epic genre changing game we have heard about for 5 years now.
We dont know what if anything at all will be delivered. We just know that they have admitted and set up the fact they failed at their promises and have now set the bar so low that they think people shouldnt be disappointed by what they get.
But BECAUSE this game is going ot be full blown pay to win and they expect to have all the whales they have had pre release on the line they are doing their very best to get something out they can milk. Thats why I said when it happened that was a MAJOR announcement, because it basically created a vacuum in their cash cow machine going forward.
imagine Blizzard sold legendaries for $$$ back in vanilla. It wouldn't be pay to win because you can get those items in game. Right? Right?
in reality it would take months and months to obtain those items, and in that time you would not be 'winning' much against anyone equipped with store weapons.
If that is the case then i predict thousands of those being captured and boarded on day 1 of PU by hunter killer packs of cheaply equipped but numerous suicide attackers. They will swarm all over those pilots that believe they can fly their capital/ multiplayer ships solo.
And on day 2 of the PU those hunter killer packs are back - in the lawless border systems.... with those captured ships. And THEN slaughter will begin....initiated by those that did NOT pay more than a basic pledge.
And THEN people will start to learn that multiplayer ship REALLY MEANS and REQUIRES multiplayer. Unless you wanna die.
Will the PvP / PvE slider not make the possibility of losing your ship to other players far less likely? And what about NPC crew members, obviously they won't be quite as good as PCs but they must count for something when repelling a boarding action?
Slider will make it less likely, but according to what i heard they will just try AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.... until they hit jackpot.
NPCs are nice - but can you name me ONE FPS game where NPC bots (without "cheating" a la unrealistic high Health/Armor/Ammo etc.) have a chance against experienced players? I do not know a single one. And players have enough time for rehearsing their boarding attacks during Alpha/Beta.
If if you watch enough SC videos on Youtube you will see that several orgs have already started this pack training. Many have EVE and E:D experience.
And some WANT to be captured, boarded and killed.... and their ship stolen.
Planned insurance fraud to "multiply" high end ships "for free" - taking advantage of LTI.
Yes, they can wait if replacing larger ships takes some time. Yes, they know they cannot repeat the trick forever without the insurance company finding out.
Slider will make it less likely, but according to what i heard they will just try AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.... until they hit jackpot.
-- That makes sense, I can envisage PvPers being quite determined to find their prey.
NPCs are nice - but can you name me ONE FPS game where NPC bots (without "cheating" a la unrealistic high Health/Armor/Ammo etc.) have a chance against experienced players? I do not know a single one. And players have enough time for rehearsing their boarding attacks during Alpha/Beta.
-- No not really, I just remembered Roberts saying that he wanted good AI for the NPCs, will be interesting to see how good they can be if you can rank up their skills etc
Hopefully they strike a good balance between solo and group, PvP and PvE. Like NPC AI it's something very few games get right.
Well, i got some answers from few obvious alpha players of SC, and ideas about the whole game design and mechanics, and about payment model, if publisher will turn p2w or not, is yet to be seen, and we wont wait long to find out. Hopefully good news.
Please explain to us - with you being incapable of being wrong - what is required for the game being functional with its expanded scope.
Also, I'd love to know how you know, by the way.
I already said, pointing flaws is useless without at least some advices, otherwise this wouldnt be objective.
One ,not perfect solution to prevent griefing would be completely locking out most zones out of pvp which would give all players slim chance of ever being competetive in the future.This is risky solution, since whales might turn on RSI for they wont be able to use that edge they paid for.
One of the ways i can see Star Citizen being stable is isolating the damage and putting most of the players which invested ridiculous amount of funds onto one server where they can be competetive in their p2w ways between each other.
This way thousands of players that plan to invest around 100$-500$ can play on stable and balanced servers and have a balanced and fair start and might potentially archieve incredible bloom of population which would in turn make even more profit than untill now overtime.
Making the universe large enough for players to not notice the balance issues is a lie, since players that invested heavily into the game expect an edge over all other players, and they will do everything in their power to stop most of the population from being competetive by forcing them out of the zones and bullying. Anyone who played Eve Online ,Freelancer Discovery or other similar games know you as a player can make a universe monopoly so painfull there isnt a way around it, and by the time you do become competetive, whales will be on a whole other level and griefing cycle completed. Read some Eve Online history, its something worthy of book material.
Also my sources are about 10-15 websites i often visit, estimates, polls, tables, dev and management team's competence and history, trend and treatment towards customers and solutions for long-term released to the public. When you have a lot of free time on your hands you know things.
As said, time will tell, they will either do the right thing, or not, its that simple.
Could you possibly just answer my question?
Here:
Please explain to us - with you being incapable of being wrong - what is required for the game being functional with its expanded scope.
Also, I'd love to know how you know, by the way.
answering questions with questions is rather primitive don't you think ?
Please explain to us - with you being incapable of being wrong - what is required for the game being functional with its expanded scope.
Also, I'd love to know how you know, by the way.
I already said, pointing flaws is useless without at least some advices, otherwise this wouldnt be objective.
One ,not perfect solution to prevent griefing would be completely locking out most zones out of pvp which would give all players slim chance of ever being competetive in the future.This is risky solution, since whales might turn on RSI for they wont be able to use that edge they paid for.
One of the ways i can see Star Citizen being stable is isolating the damage and putting most of the players which invested ridiculous amount of funds onto one server where they can be competetive in their p2w ways between each other.
This way thousands of players that plan to invest around 100$-500$ can play on stable and balanced servers and have a balanced and fair start and might potentially archieve incredible bloom of population which would in turn make even more profit than untill now overtime.
Making the universe large enough for players to not notice the balance issues is a lie, since players that invested heavily into the game expect an edge over all other players, and they will do everything in their power to stop most of the population from being competetive by forcing them out of the zones and bullying. Anyone who played Eve Online ,Freelancer Discovery or other similar games know you as a player can make a universe monopoly so painfull there isnt a way around it, and by the time you do become competetive, whales will be on a whole other level and griefing cycle completed. Read some Eve Online history, its something worthy of book material.
Also my sources are about 10-15 websites i often visit, estimates, polls, tables, dev and management team's competence and history, trend and treatment towards customers and solutions for long-term released to the public. When you have a lot of free time on your hands you know things.
As said, time will tell, they will either do the right thing, or not, its that simple.
Could you possibly just answer my question?
Here:
Please explain to us - with you being incapable of being wrong - what is required for the game being functional with its expanded scope.
Also, I'd love to know how you know, by the way.
answering questions with questions is rather primitive don't you think ?
Definition of troll according to modern standards:
1. What you call people when you run out of arguments 2. Someone who is annoyingly out of agreement with you 3. Last resort insult - often used by trolls
Comments
'what do you want and how do you think you can get it?'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Hey, can I debunk this 16K coffee maker thing? So we can assume that the company is paying for coffee, right? So they've likely ordered an industrial coffee maker? That's just my guess. I haven't really done any research on the unit, but I'm assuming that it's pretty sweet and probably has a significant warranty.
SO!!! let's do some maths and compare single-serve coffee machines versus this $16k monstrosity. Unit cost is negligible, so let's say zero cost Keurig system. Now! It's estimated that the cost, per pound, of a single-serve system is $51 per pound. I can buy a a 2-pound bag of ground coffee on Amazon from Marley (yeah mon!) for $31.
The company I work for, I happened across some information a while back which indicated that we go through 22 gallons of coffee per day for our engineering organization. I know that sounds like a lot, but it amounts for about 500 cups of coffee. That's an average of about 1 cup per person. NOW! Assuming that CIG is paying for coffee (because that's generally what tech companies do) this $16k coffee maker would pay for itself within a 6-month period.
NOW!!!!! More than that, single-serve coffee brewers take about 30 seconds to brew a single serving, compared to the seconds to pour one, never mind if you've got a couple people waiting. So this ends up translating to, say, 2 hours a day, or around $100 per day of people sitting around.
Should you go with a commercial brewer? Yes, with that volume they definitely should. Are there less expensive units? Yes, for sure. However, if your staff enjoys high-end coffee, then it's totally worthwhile and appreciated. I remember when I worked in eCommerce our CEO would fly in beans from Portugal on a monthly basis. So we could do some math around employee satisfaction numbers, but I've done enough math for today.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Why would i want to refund at this time? Since i brought in, they have been putting playable developed patches out regularly and i don't see why they would stop development now they got the whole thing rolling.
Would be silly putting money down on something i knew was in development and then asking for the money back when i see the development is pushing forward. I have zero reason to even think of asking for the money back.
So you have a nice big ship that requires 10 people to fly it. You can pay more money and get npc crew to help fly the ship or you can get 10 friends who probably won't feel like sitting there looking at a radar while someone else is shooting the guns and another player is probably running off with all the repair tools because he himself is a tool and scamming is legal.
In a logical conclusion this game has everything it needs to be a pay to win game. However if done properly it will not be pay to win which I highly doubt because anyone willing to sell ships that do not exist will also be willing to sell ships that do exist and create an economy that evolves around purchasing of such items.
This crazy math shit you guys come up with to justify it works the same for a 10 dollar pawn shop coffee maker as it does for a 16K one.
So why don't coffee shops just buy Mr Coffees?
If they had done that then I'm sure that the argument would be that they were littering the landfills with sub-standard coffee makers. Again, it's a circular argument.
Also, it's not crazy math shit, that's real math shit. I don't understand why it's crazy when it's real numbers. It's not like I'm injecting hypothetical data. If I actually wanted to take into consideration an average American, the number of coffees per day would be 2.1 which is more than double the numbers I was using. So I was being somewhat conservative.
So I guess CIG is guilty for being environmentally friendly, too.
Anyway, not sure why we're still bitching and moaning over doors and coffee and murals. Guess anything else relevant has been exhausted?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
If you wanna really know what's up with the game there's a simple solution.
No one, and this won't happen, but no one spend another dime towards it.
See what you get other than "We need more funding."
I really do feel bad for people dropping this kind of money and not even getting access to everything in-game.
Should be criminal.
Peace better things to do.
Imagine if they had only raised 10 million and were spending money on the frivolous crap they have spent money on hat would people say?
The REASON they spent that much money is pretty simple... they HAD that much money. It has nothign to do with saving money or getting a 'quality' maker. Its because they have sucked over a hundred million (allegedly) out of people so they feel they have enough to buy over priced crap. Despite the fact they havent even got a foundation for the game itself made yet. Or that now nearly 5 years in they realize they cant deliver what they claimed so nows its going to be a simple 'minimally viable product' release.
There is absolutely no logical or reasonable justification anyone can make that would make spending the amount of money they have on 'creature comforts' make sense. To anyone that has any sense that is. The fact that so many people who have sent them money are trying to justify it sort of proves what I have been saying all along, people (still) supporting this game dont have any common sense whatsoever. Especially now. The first year or so ne could have made a semi reasonable argument but not with all the stuff we have seen andnot seen the past couple years in regards to this fiasco.
Well, it'll either all come tumbling down or it won't. My issue is that the Internet is now policing how people spend their money? With regards to the Minimally Viable Product. What? 2 weeks ago? The attacks against SC surrounded not delivering a game. They couldn't do it. Then the announcement comes down that they will be shooting to release an MVP and now that focus shifts from not being able to deliver something to "Ohhhhh!!!! So now we get an MVP????" Like fuck me! What do you people want? You either want a game or you don't. It's been shown how there are a multitude of games, including ED, which launched using an MVP. Why? Because it's fucking smart and it's what should have been done from the beginning. However, do NOT allow CIG to correct those errors! Do NOT allow them to take corrective action to deliver a game!
As far as creature comforts go, Google is the best example of how these work. I know! Google makes their own money...... However, CIG makes their own money too and whether that be by bare-backing some unsuspecting consumer or whether it be milking existing ones. You should have zero say in how people spend their money, as much as I can tell you what you should be saying on here. You have no idea what's involved with running a business, what it takes to operate a successful business, how difficult it is to recruit talent, and how difficult it is to minimize turnover. That last statement is entirely speculative, but if you had ANY clue about working in technology, you'd appreciate that you will go to any extent to keep good, talented people in your company and you'd ALSO understand how much of a buyers market it is at this very moment. If that means I have to give some people some pet projects like a fuckin' mural or an automated door that costs all of a couple hundred bucks. Shit! Go for it!! Knock yourselves out!
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I have stated all along they will deliver something, what that is we dont know. But I doubt its 64 bit, I doubts its an MMO, I doubt it has even a small percentage of the things they say it will have.
If they deliver SQ 42 and try and go forward and fail then the pros can all say at least they delivered something. Yeah that something was a single player game (that was originally a stretch goal mod that was downgraded) not the epic genre changing game we have heard about for 5 years now.
We dont know what if anything at all will be delivered. We just know that they have admitted and set up the fact they failed at their promises and have now set the bar so low that they think people shouldnt be disappointed by what they get.
But BECAUSE this game is going ot be full blown pay to win and they expect to have all the whales they have had pre release on the line they are doing their very best to get something out they can milk. Thats why I said when it happened that was a MAJOR announcement, because it basically created a vacuum in their cash cow machine going forward.
in reality it would take months and months to obtain those items, and in that time you would not be 'winning' much against anyone equipped with store weapons.
CIG are selling end game items.
And on day 2 of the PU those hunter killer packs are back - in the lawless border systems.... with those captured ships.
And THEN slaughter will begin....initiated by those that did NOT pay more than a basic pledge.
And THEN people will start to learn that multiplayer ship REALLY MEANS and REQUIRES multiplayer. Unless you wanna die.
Have fun
And what about NPC crew members, obviously they won't be quite as good as PCs but they must count for something when repelling a boarding action?
NPCs are nice - but can you name me ONE FPS game where NPC bots (without "cheating" a la unrealistic high Health/Armor/Ammo etc.) have a chance against experienced players? I do not know a single one. And players have enough time for rehearsing their boarding attacks during Alpha/Beta.
If if you watch enough SC videos on Youtube you will see that several orgs have already started this pack training. Many have EVE and E:D experience.
Have fun
And some WANT to be captured, boarded and killed.... and their ship stolen.
Planned insurance fraud to "multiply" high end ships "for free" - taking advantage of LTI.
Yes, they can wait if replacing larger ships takes some time. Yes, they know they cannot repeat the trick forever without the insurance company finding out.
Have fun
No one does it. It has been tried. Its not fun. Also it is too computer resource intensive.
Have fun
PS:
W.r.t. Star Citizen AI see also
http://kythera.ai/case-studies/star-citizen/focus-on-dogfighting
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13810-Inside-CIG-Moon-Collider-The-Star-Citizen-AI
http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/12/this-is-the-advanced-ai-tech-powering-star-citizen/
Hopefully good news.
I think it can be rather sophisticated, actually.
When you see a troll , ruuuuuuuunn.
1. What you call people when you run out of arguments
2. Someone who is annoyingly out of agreement with you
3. Last resort insult - often used by trolls