Well, I don't mind tab targetting for ranged attacks but in melee it is rather pointless. Missing an opponent right in front of you because you have another in target makes no sense, collision detection are more logical and fun there and not only in action games. There is no need to be forced to target someone when swing a zweihander, look in the right direction and make your attack, anything you hit should get damage.
In anything where guns are the main weapons having tab targetting just get in the way, even though I still think if you also have magic that should still have tab targetting for single target spells, same for anything with a built in targetting system (like heat seaking missiles).
Tab targets are really from Meridian 59 and they just didn't have the resources to make anything more advanced but MMOs have acess to better technology now.
From a healers perspective, a tabbed targeting game is just a mini game of raid frames, clicking on each one and casting spells. in WoW I use healbot and for 80% of the time i am raiding in hellfire citadel, my game play consists of clicking on raid frames and casting spells, with the odd movement required and action to do if a boss does something specific to me. People are getting bored of this "mini game" style and tabbed targeting games MMO's like Wildstar tried to change that but failed miserably. They even said in their trailer "no one wants to play a boring raid frame minigame". Obviously they where wrong as Wildstar is now slowing loosing players and WoW still has over 5 Million subs. Another reason action healing is taking over is for console gameplay. Take a look at Overwatch for example, that has healing characters but is not tabbed. The gameplay has been designed so it is both consol and pc friendly with minimal skills and no raid frames for healing. I think overwatch gives the perfect example of how action healing can be done properly.
How would you say overwatch healing system work in a WoW raid?
Having raid healed in TERA back when they actually had raids and challenging ones at that, I can say it was a ton of fun. The most fun I've had in MMO PvE healing was hands down the first few years of TERA, where they had both an amazing combat system and fun, challenging boss fights.
I used to pay tank on Tera but all the healers hated me because i moved way too much. Their targeted big healing spells always missed, only the aoe ones healed me a bit before i moved again. The game had an action combat and i could dodge a lot of attacks so i moved a lot, did not really understand why the healers hated that. i was kicked out of dungeons way too much but did not mind keep moving again and again :P.
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Never really understood why. For me, tab targetting is the definitive way of playing a mmorpg, unlike traditional rpg in which i prefer the isometric camera of Baldur's Gate and the like. The current "action combat system" is awful to me and i honestly feel like it's designed for consoles and not computers. I swear i feel like trying to drive a car with my feet when playing those new games, which also suck in every other aspect besides the controls.
I don't know, maybe i'm just too old for this shit. I guess that's why i'm still stuck with WoW and stuff like that.
It is the style of classical RPGs and it does require some measure of concentration not to hit the wrong target by accident. You don't really have to tab target in old MMOs. You can also select your target with the mouse cursor. This is only an issue when fighting mobs that are blocking other mobs. It might be more interesting to have to select your target without tab targeting. Having to precisely get something into view and click on it probably requires a bit more skill then just hitting tab until the right target comes up. If I recall many MMOs assign keys to target different members of your group. I also remember in EQ you had to target yourself to cast a spell on yourself. In WoW a mechanic was added that automatically targeted you when casting a beneficial spell and targeting an enemy. That made things really easy compared to having to switch back and fourth targeting between yourself and your enemy.
I loved Star Wars Galaxies because it incorporated both tab targeting and twitch combat. You could have something targeted. But still miss if you or it was moving. But it kept the target locked so you did not lose site.
One of the best combat mechanics of any mmo. Wish other mmo's were like it.
The vast majority of MMOrpg players are currently using Tab target .. its not even close ... Twitch and Action Combat in MMOrpgs is a minority ... So i dont get the OP ...
That is a statement not a question. Using high rising terminal in RL is not a good look for anyone. So hopefully this pattern is just a forum thing for you.
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It seems I am one of the few who still prefers tab targeting. Let me get this out of the way whether you believe me or not. I am really good at action combat in mmos like Tera! I am extremely fast and accurate with action combat and FPSers so that is not an issue. I am proficient in both keyboards and controllers. I do enjoy combat action but not in my big open world mmos.
What I find is that I will at times put long sessions into mmos. I will play for hours at a time. I will admit I have put 8 to 12 hours into sessions without much of a break accept for bio breaks. on an occasion I enjoy doing that and getting lost in the game world. I really appreciate good action combat. I think Tera is one of the best, C9 does it really well, and I give credit to Vindictus. These game do give a visceral feel to combat that is satisfying.
What I hear in the game reporting world is tab targeting should be dead and that no mmo should have it any more. That tab targeting is antiquated and the tone is those of us who like it just don't get it. The main reason I prefer tab targeting in mmos is the sheer amount of time I can put in a session. The wear and tear of even 4+ hours of action combat can cause real issues with hands and arms. I was starting to develop carpal tunnel syndrome while playing Tera. I recently was playing Black Desert Online and the carpal tunnel began to return. So while I hope action combat is a choice and gets better I also hope developers of future big scale open world mmos (if there will be anymore) will consider a tab targeting or a hybrid combat system over a pure action combat. My muscles and joints can not take it and I hope to be playing mmos for the rest of my life. While I still got the moves my joints and muscle just can not take it during a long play session with action combat.
Honestly it sounds like your problem is not gaming but you need a proper setup at your computer desk. A properly ergonomic setup will alleviate most of those issues with sore arms/hands and potential carpal tunnel. Also working out those muscles so they're stronger will help quite a bit as well.
I work at a computer all day at work and do a lot of typing and clicking constantly, but after an 8 hour day I am perfectly fine. I even play a few hours sometimes of gaming and still am fine. But I do both of the above to ensure I don't get sore. I also don't game as long as you do, though and I take breaks both at work and at home.
It's just all about healthy gaming. Take care of yourself properly and you won't have issues with sore muscles after long gaming hours. It's not an action combat problem, it's just you pushing your body beyond what it wants to do without proper precautions taken to prevent injury.
I got two great setups and take care of myself. Try playing terra hours at a time for days in a row and if you do not feel the strain at all then you are superman. I also work on the computer all day to I am an artist. It is the action combat because as I said this does not happen with tab targeting. The nature of tab targeting is less stressful on your fingers. Here is one of my two gaming rigs http://fav.me/d9atn9z and this setup is my secondary machine (Alienware) not my main gaming rig (Main Gear) which is an even better setup (sorry don't have a picture posted of it). I am an older gamer too which I do realize does take a bit more of a toll on you. But years of gaming experience and a keen understanding of gaming muscle stress I can safely say action combat is tougher on your hands and wrists then tab targeting. That is not to say tab targeting can not cause problems too when you are a hardcore gamer. I am not talking about casual gaming.
You get the repetitive strain injury not because you play action games.... You get it because you are not resting your hand appropriately.
With time it gets worse, I'll probably get it too because I don't rest my hand really well while holding the mouse but that doesn't mean action combat is the culprit.
That's the equivalent of MMOs using outdated Tab-Targetting Combat in 2016.
Yeah Tab-Targetting Combat System works just fine, but what does it actually do better than the Action Combat? Absolutely nothing.
It depends on Gear, Luck and there is very little skill involved. It's boring, generic and always the same. What else can you actually expect from a dice-roll combat system.
and you think action combat would actually be a thing in VR? aside from turning around and aiming i'm betting it'll be lots of menues.. people cba to move around that much.
Ya, I think action combat would work perfectly fine in VR as long as it's done right. Even if there are a lot of menus ... how exactly is that a problem?
The current "action combat system" is awful to me and i honestly feel like it's designed for consoles and not computers.
I never understood people saying something feels like it's designed for consoles. When it really comes down to it, what does that even mean? There are less buttons that need to be involved in an action combat typically than tab targeting. How does less buttons make it feel awful? Really the only major difference is you have to aim using the mouse.
Aiming with the mouse is easier to do than aiming with a controller. So I would say action combat works well with mouse and keyboard, same with FPS games. Really the only genres of game I can think of at the top of my head that works better with a controller is racing game and platformers.
Play an arena match in Rift "example" and get tab targeted by a mage and hit with about 10 debuffs and 5 spells all at once and you will realize the problem with tab targeting. Sure it is convenient and sure it lends to long session gaming, but for PvP combat it is balls unless other measures are enabled to combat excessive use of macros.
Play an arena match in Rift "example" and get tab targeted by a mage and hit with about 10 debuffs and 5 spells all at once and you will realize the problem with tab targeting. Sure it is convenient and sure it lends to long session gaming, but for PvP combat it is balls unless other measures are enabled to combat excessive use of macros.
Also action combat if done right can help melee classes.
We know the majority of the games favour ranged classes, if however they need to aim to hit, melee can have a chance instead of being kited to death.
I can like tab targetting. Funny how some mentioned they hate it because WoW uses it. Wow is one of the few MMO's where I like the tab targetting. It works very smoothly and intuitive, even as melee. There are other games where I have a problem with tab targetting as melee and end up fighting the annoying targetting mechanics (SWTOR as melee for example, as ranged you dont really notice how bad it can be).
I do prefer soft aiming or actual FPS like targetting though. It just plays more natural to me.
The problem isn't just about tab-target, its the static gameplay, the looping of abilities, activating abilities based on cooldown while you can mostly ignore what your enemy is doing because the monsters has been dumbed down so horribly that you can replace yourself with a bot.
Just swapping out tab-target for something else doesn't fix the whole problem.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I prefer tab targeting over action combat everytime. Its just what i'm used to since 2000. I always end up quitting those action combat mmo's after a month.
Because you can lock on to a mob or player. Look away and destroy them. No effort - nothing. Just hit the button for the script and boom! No more player/mob. It was said already... boring, old, and not enjoyable.
I don't have any hate towards tab targetting. I feel it existed as other options were a technical limitation at the time. It's a nostalgia piece that is embedded into the genre now. With that said, it's 2016 and I think when applicable action combat should be the option. PVE games, fine. Keep it tab target as it doesn't really effect things. If people want to macro their gameplay fine. Games with OWPVP and PVP, nobody likes being auto targetted and have projectitles and attacks curve towrads them. In this case I'd say action combat is the better option.
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Because you can lock on to a mob or player. Look away and destroy them. No effort - nothing. Just hit the button for the script and boom! No more player/mob. It was said already... boring, old, and not enjoyable.
that's usually what people who's never tried anything endgame related says.. same thing can be said about all those action combat games aswell. "all you have to to is spam random attacks blindly til your target is dead" no effort.
Because you can lock on to a mob or player. Look away and destroy them. No effort - nothing. Just hit the button for the script and boom! No more player/mob. It was said already... boring, old, and not enjoyable.
Though in truth, as others have pointed out, it's more about your character and the character's skills than your personal skills.
There's a bit of a rift between those who want a more true RPG experience and those who want their characters to be guided more by the player.
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Because you can lock on to a mob or player. Look away and destroy them. No effort - nothing. Just hit the button for the script and boom! No more player/mob. It was said already... boring, old, and not enjoyable.
Though in truth, as others have pointed out, it's more about your character and the character's skills than your personal skills.
There's a bit of a rift between those who want a more true RPG experience and those who want their characters to be guided more by the player.
The point of roleplaying games has always been about active player interaction, you guide your character through situations by utilizing the characters trait and skills while trying to immerse yourself fully to the character.
Dice-rolling isn't really about roleplaying, its a substitution of player interaction with a functional statistical system while trying to keep participants interacted in the game.
Speaking about true RPG experience regarding mmorpg combat feels somewhat misguided since mmorpg's has mostly been about players interacting with other players against monsters in a gaming world.
Active vs passive combat isn't about what's more true, its about your own preferences.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I too due to my ageing hands have been relegated to less action orientated games. I have never been adept at using the controller although I am told that is the superior way to handle action combat. I have tried my hand at them and while never doing very well I have managed the PvE. The only game that defeated me and one I was woefully unprepared for despite my G600 Logitech mouse was Wild*. The game's use of mouse turn truly hurt me physically due to the way I had mapped all my skills to the mouse too.
I do not mind a little action combat and I can do without tab targeting but developers I think are moving away from tab targeting because the want to attract more than just the traditional MMORPG players. The traditional MMORPG players are a small and dwindling representation of the MMORPG market. They might be very much more present due to their disproportionate impassioned threads and activity on the forums but their actual numbers are small. I think the very fact that they could not even muster up a sizeable number to sign up for the vanilla WoW servers is an indication of how small a population they are.
Gaming has evolved or devolved depending on one's point of view and game companies are looking towards younger audiences who have grown up with a controller grafted to the hands. These people also eschew tab targeting. I think no matter how much one might want to cling to the old way we play the fact that time marches on and waits for no man is cruelly represented and drummed home every time a new game is talked about and the type of combat is more often than not action based.
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In anything where guns are the main weapons having tab targetting just get in the way, even though I still think if you also have magic that should still have tab targetting for single target spells, same for anything with a built in targetting system (like heat seaking missiles).
Tab targets are really from Meridian 59 and they just didn't have the resources to make anything more advanced but MMOs have acess to better technology now.
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The current "action combat system" is awful to me and i honestly feel like it's designed for consoles and not computers. I swear i feel like trying to drive a car with my feet when playing those new games, which also suck in every other aspect besides the controls.
I don't know, maybe i'm just too old for this shit. I guess that's why i'm still stuck with WoW and stuff like that.
One of the best combat mechanics of any mmo. Wish other mmo's were like it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I got two great setups and take care of myself. Try playing terra hours at a time for days in a row and if you do not feel the strain at all then you are superman. I also work on the computer all day to I am an artist. It is the action combat because as I said this does not happen with tab targeting. The nature of tab targeting is less stressful on your fingers. Here is one of my two gaming rigs http://fav.me/d9atn9z and this setup is my secondary machine (Alienware) not my main gaming rig (Main Gear) which is an even better setup (sorry don't have a picture posted of it). I am an older gamer too which I do realize does take a bit more of a toll on you. But years of gaming experience and a keen understanding of gaming muscle stress I can safely say action combat is tougher on your hands and wrists then tab targeting. That is not to say tab targeting can not cause problems too when you are a hardcore gamer. I am not talking about casual gaming.
With time it gets worse, I'll probably get it too because I don't rest my hand really well while holding the mouse but that doesn't mean action combat is the culprit.
That's the equivalent of MMOs using outdated Tab-Targetting Combat in 2016.
Yeah Tab-Targetting Combat System works just fine, but what does it actually do better than the Action Combat? Absolutely nothing.
It depends on Gear, Luck and there is very little skill involved. It's boring, generic and always the same. What else can you actually expect from a dice-roll combat system.
I never understood people saying something feels like it's designed for consoles. When it really comes down to it, what does that even mean? There are less buttons that need to be involved in an action combat typically than tab targeting. How does less buttons make it feel awful? Really the only major difference is you have to aim using the mouse.
Aiming with the mouse is easier to do than aiming with a controller. So I would say action combat works well with mouse and keyboard, same with FPS games. Really the only genres of game I can think of at the top of my head that works better with a controller is racing game and platformers.
We know the majority of the games favour ranged classes, if however they need to aim to hit, melee can have a chance instead of being kited to death.
I do prefer soft aiming or actual FPS like targetting though. It just plays more natural to me.
Just swapping out tab-target for something else doesn't fix the whole problem.
It was said already... boring, old, and not enjoyable.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had fun once, it was terrible.
There's a bit of a rift between those who want a more true RPG experience and those who want their characters to be guided more by the player.
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Dice-rolling isn't really about roleplaying, its a substitution of player interaction with a functional statistical system while trying to keep participants interacted in the game.
Speaking about true RPG experience regarding mmorpg combat feels somewhat misguided since mmorpg's has mostly been about players interacting with other players against monsters in a gaming world.
Active vs passive combat isn't about what's more true, its about your own preferences.
I do not mind a little action combat and I can do without tab targeting but developers I think are moving away from tab targeting because the want to attract more than just the traditional MMORPG players. The traditional MMORPG players are a small and dwindling representation of the MMORPG market. They might be very much more present due to their disproportionate impassioned threads and activity on the forums but their actual numbers are small. I think the very fact that they could not even muster up a sizeable number to sign up for the vanilla WoW servers is an indication of how small a population they are.
Gaming has evolved or devolved depending on one's point of view and game companies are looking towards younger audiences who have grown up with a controller grafted to the hands. These people also eschew tab targeting. I think no matter how much one might want to cling to the old way we play the fact that time marches on and waits for no man is cruelly represented and drummed home every time a new game is talked about and the type of combat is more often than not action based.