SC (yes I am a backer) Is an MMO, by Instances they mean Locations within the game that you are. I believe he said with the amount of systems to be located in, not all will have someone in and those will not be running on the servers and instead work other locations to allow more people in and remove NPC's as such. (100 NPCs in a system and 10 PC's fly in, 10 NPC's leave that system/server).
It is a MMO, No different than any other. Eve is the worst game to comapre to this as Eve's Mechanics dont account for as much in a fight as SC will/Already Does. Also with EvE if more than X amount of players are in a system the entire game in that system slows to a crawl with is the worst way for them to handle it. let alone they lock out entry to that system. Now we don't know what SC will do in that instance, we will have to wait and find out.
I* feel too many people THINK it is all about a great game "not even close to a GAME...yet". Some feel it is about Chris...i don't.
Ignore this video or game entirely and just look at the internet and gaming in general.
People for some unknown reason,since just about a year or so beyond Wow ,began buying just about ANYTHING,spending money on everything from peripherals to ANY game hyped by anyone. Then i discovered Twitch and that seriously opened my eyes and what gamer's are like in general,especially since there is live chatting and interaction. once again,it reconfirmed that gamer's WASTE a LOT of money,so much that Twitch became a million dollar business and sold to Amazon a virtual giant.
It is has become so much about $$ now,games and their quality seem to not matter at all.I see games often just piles of crap in the top streaming list,why,well because the top streamers that make loads of money are streaming them,to again make loads more money. So how does that all surround SC,easy ,Chris saw a platform to get FREE handouts from all these wasted spenders.
I drew a simple conclusion VERY early on,this guy Chris CLAIMS he has loads of money,none of the speculations are accurate "according to him" because he says he has his own money and is not wasting pledges or money that has been GIVEN to him to build the game and for NO other purpose.
Well guess what,he pitched a 6 mil game,then why if he has all that money did he go LEECHING from naive foolish spenders in the first place?No rocket scientist needed here,he saw an EASY EXPLOIT to take advantage of.
So in my view,he is actually exploiting people and TRIES to justify it with so called updated game modes or additions.Guess what,you build upon the PROMISED 6 mil game with profits,NOT with people's free handout money,that was SUPPOSE to build a finished game and not these continued promises of more and more,the ONLY real MORE is more $$$$.
Then of course the OBVIOUS,why are all the game packages,ship sales,,lmao need anyone explain this,no of course not.Selling virtual items has proven to be lucrative,even without a game he was easily selling these ships.I have mentioned it before,no LAWS yet to sue a guy like this for exploitation but i guarantee in a number of years there will be and we will never again see a CR type scammer..i mean exploiter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Serious question - is SC an MMO? I thought CIG had expressly stated it wasn't.
Officiall Star Citizen is: "More than a space combat sim, more than a first person shooter and more than an MMO: Star Citizen is the First Person Universe that will allow for unlimited gameplay"
Not in the classic sense. Private servers and modding options are not part of MMO's as we know them. They are trying to combine various aspects in one whole.
It remains to be seen if they can pull this 100% off. I am a bit skeptical tbh. When the first fully functional solar system makes it to Alpha with all systems working we will have solid ground for further debate.
As for No mans Sky, what I do get at all is the shitty piloting controls. No physics what so ever. No true control. Try to fly head first at the ground and kill yourself, the game wont let you..
Not in the classic sense. Private servers and modding options are not part of MMO's as we know them. They are trying to combine various aspects in one whole.
That's the scope. Though we already got confirmation that offline play, private servers are not going to be there by launch. So the current scope of SC remains of the MMO alone as the option we will have at least on launch based on the recent info, is that we will play all online on the same universe as all the other players.
I agree. It's because SC and SQ42 were separated today and are already sold as separate games. And because the offline and private servers features on SC are not going to be there by launch.
That puts SC as the Online Persistent Universe you will play on with all the other players. On that scope, SC is the MMO.
You might as well hang up that private server idea. There is no way in hell they are going to let anyone play this game if they are unable to sell ships and all the other things they have been selling. Unless they allow renting of server space and call it private even though its just another one of their venues. But you can bet your ass they won't allow if they are unable to sell their p2w stuff through it.
The recent No Man's Sky certainly showed the world what miracles follow insane hype + closed development
I find it funny. NMS is what it claimed it would be. Now its getting a lot of bad reviews on Steam because it is not what people THOUGHT it would be.
How DARE planets look similar after some time ... how DARE the devs use PG that is NOT generating 100 % new stuff 100 % of the time. With a detailed in-depth story on top. At launch day, And the ability to blast other players out of the sky ... as people STILL have not understood how insanely HUGE a galaxy is and what a HUGE stroke of luck it is to meet another gamer.
I like NMS. But I AM the Bartle Explorer type.
Have fun
Funnily enough is that even though CIG claims star citizen is open development there is still a lot that backers don't know about because the info just isn't out there. So you have backers filling in the blanks and making wild claims as to what they think or hope the finished game will be. If the game actually releases there are going to be a lot more pissed off gamers when the hype trains smashes into the wall of reality
Also with EvE if more than X amount of players are in a system the entire game in that system slows to a crawl with is the worst way for them to handle it. let alone they lock out entry to that system. Now we don't know what SC will do in that instance, we will have to wait and find out.
As opposed to SC's idea of not allowing more then 100 players into the system. So which 100 players get to go in there? What if 80 of them are bads and 20 of them are your friends? Eve's idea even though its not perfect is at least fair to the best of their abilities. It takes literally thousands of players before you can have a problem with Eve's system. Meanwhile it only takes 100 with SC.
As opposed to SC's idea of not allowing more then 100 players into the system. So which 100 players get to go in there? What if 80 of them are bads and 20 of them are your friends? Eve's idea even though its not perfect is at least fair to the best of their abilities. It takes literally thousands of players before you can have a problem with Eve's system. Meanwhile it only takes 100 with SC.
Guild Wars 2 is around 100 per instance, they might have 1000 players on the same place it will only run 10 instances of the same place.
And yeah GW2 still runs into the issue of no free slots to join your guild/friends, specially on world bosses and events.
Also with EvE if more than X amount of players are in a system the entire game in that system slows to a crawl with is the worst way for them to handle it. let alone they lock out entry to that system. Now we don't know what SC will do in that instance, we will have to wait and find out.
As opposed to SC's idea of not allowing more then 100 players into the system. So which 100 players get to go in there? What if 80 of them are bads and 20 of them are your friends? Eve's idea even though its not perfect is at least fair to the best of their abilities. It takes literally thousands of players before you can have a problem with Eve's system. Meanwhile it only takes 100 with SC.
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Otherwise 2 capitals with 40 total players inside would consume most of the instance slots, when it doesn't need to with a cap for ships and a higher one for player characters.
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Ok the. So the question should be have they got that working where the ships are counted as an instance and not the players themselves? What happens if the players leave the ship to board another one? Will they get a sorry instance full message? Have they solved the issue where people on one ship clip right through another ship cause the physics grid doesn't recognize them?
These should be huge worries in CIG's mind and in the backers mind because if they haven't figured it out yet then it makes you wonder what the hell are they doing?
As opposed to SC's idea of not allowing more then 100 players into the system. So which 100 players get to go in there? What if 80 of them are bads and 20 of them are your friends? Eve's idea even though its not perfect is at least fair to the best of their abilities. It takes literally thousands of players before you can have a problem with Eve's system. Meanwhile it only takes 100 with SC.
Guild Wars 2 is around 100 per instance, they might have 1000 players on the same place it will only run 10 instances of the same place.
And yeah GW2 still runs into the issue of no free slots to join your guild/friends, specially on world bosses and events.
GW2 it depends on the area. Some areas have as high as 500 players per instance. The pve part is a good reason to limit to aprox 100 players because it gets too crowded and you won't be able to do quests or kill anything. Those limits are comparing apples to oranges because GW2 limits focus on pve events and SC's limits evolve around pvp. You have GW2 limits because it helps players enjoy the game. Meanwhile Sc's limits are going to cause problems with players enjoying the game.
I mean if this game takes off like people think it will then there will be a few thousand ships trying to fight over stuff.
GW2 it depends on the area. Some areas have as high as 500 players per instance. The pve part is a good reason to limit to aprox 100 players because it gets too crowded and you won't be able to do quests or kill anything. Those limits are comparing apples to oranges because GW2 limits focus on pve events and SC's limits evolve around pvp. You have GW2 limits because it helps players enjoy the game. Meanwhile Sc's limits are going to cause problems with players enjoying the game.
I mean if this game takes off like people think it will then there will be a few thousand ships trying to fight over stuff.
500? The max is on WvW where Cap is put as 300, around 100 per map border.
The PvE part causes severe annoyances, every time we needed to do major events, on an organized run teamspeak, we had to:
- All players jump to the same place on the same map at the same time. - The organizers do this as an attempt to force the game to open a new instance. - After decide on an instance they taxi the most people they can get inside into it. - Then we waited around half a hour before the event started.
Then yeah, we can do some of the hardest world bosses on the game, that is only possible this way due the high level of organization and players required to beat the specific boss requires all this work to get us to open a fresh instance of the game otherwise we could only fit around 50 people on the boss group and just fail it constantly. So i wouldn't say "limit it's there so you enjoy the game".
On SC with its PvP aspect the need to bigger instances comes in mind, yet at the end is guaranteed the game will have to be running multiple instances of the same place at the same time, so it needs a decent system to avoid users playing together of being split into more than one instance, giving them priority instead.
Ok the. So the question should be have they got that working where the ships are counted as an instance and not the players themselves? What happens if the players leave the ship to board another one? Will they get a sorry instance full message? Have they solved the issue where people on one ship clip right through another ship cause the physics grid doesn't recognize them?
These should be huge worries in CIG's mind and in the backers mind because if they haven't figured it out yet then it makes you wonder what the hell are they doing?
The point is ship count and player count to be different caps. There is info on this since last year once the first info rewarding what they are doing with the zoning system and netcode rewrite means, i'm waiting though for a more in-depth dive on this.
They can very well put this instance has 100 Ships limit, including a 5 Capital Ship Limit (i think there's already a limit of single-seat vs multi-crew ships on the game) soft-limit and a total of 150-200 player characters limit. The rest will fall to the logic of the instance manager.
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Ok the. So the question should be have they got that working where the ships are counted as an instance and not the players themselves? What happens if the players leave the ship to board another one? Will they get a sorry instance full message? Have they solved the issue where people on one ship clip right through another ship cause the physics grid doesn't recognize them?
These should be huge worries in CIG's mind and in the backers mind because if they haven't figured it out yet then it makes you wonder what the hell are they doing?
Clipping problem --> Work in Progress. The more testing, the more bugs are fixed.
Instances: current instance limit: 24 (about to go up again soon according to recent hints from CR ... take it with a grain of salt as always .. maybe we hear more from GamesCom tomorrow) largest player ship crew: 23 (Idris) (it is possible that capital ships consist of more than one instance ... especially the Bengal) So yes, currently even the largest crew fits into an instance.
Players boarding another ship - lets assume a typical situation (Caterpillar pirates board Constellation).
Step 2: EVA boarding, max Instance population: 6 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) + 4 pirate boarders on EVA Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew
Step 3: ship boarding, max Instance population: 8 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew + 4 pirate boarders (crew is killed by pirates)
Step 4: ship capture, max Instance population: 4 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 pirate boarders
You can add 1-3 escort fighters on each side, with 1-2 pilots each. Still no problem, even now with 24 max instance limit.
If someone wants to board and capture an Idris, it gets more interesting. At the moment this would only be possible if the Idris consists of more than one instance. Personally I am optimistic that they can crank up the max limit to at least that what we see in other games (=64).
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Otherwise 2 capitals with 40 total players inside would consume most of the instance slots, when it doesn't need to with a cap for ships and a higher one for player characters.
It should be a worry. They introduced multiplayer ships almost a year ago and the only increase they've made is raising the number by 8. The new network code they were rumoured to be using has a hard coded cap of 64 per instance.
I'm also very sceptical of claims that instance count only equals ships, what's going to happen if you have 4 ships with 20 players on each and they all decide to EVA for funsies? While everything is inside a ship it counts as its own zone (nested instance) so it won't be a worry there but as soon as they leave the ship...
It would be nice to see how they're progressing on this front, on a tech level it's quite interesting and I'd like to see it running with some bots or whatever.
Oh have in mind the last years plan they were going on about instancing the interiors of the ship seem to not be what is actually being developed currently. Specially with the recent hints towards large scale instances with more players on them than what they originally wanted to do by compartmentalize players.
However this will only be seen in due time but i think a developer already mentioned the multi-crew ships will not have instanced interiors.
It should be a worry. They introduced multiplayer ships almost a year ago and the only increase they've made is raising the number by 8. The new network code they were rumoured to be using has a hard coded cap of 64 per instance.
If they are rewriting the whole netcode then there's no point on spend development on applying bandages to a system they will eventually replace. This is what happens on currently the 2.X releases, 2.3 to > 2.4 degraded server performance, 2.4 to 2.5 also degraded server performance and they already know and admit to it, but they can't "fix" something they will replace.
Side of that, on the current release i think they already do limit both multi-crew and single-seat ships to different caps, while the player can't spawn a multi-crew ship he can spawn a single-seat one. It's that kind of capacity limit they can balance out per instance.
Also notice what i posted before i quoted you, Interiors of ships are not instanced. They are culled depending on your location relative to that ship. Like, if you're 20KM away from an idris you don't need to know the precise location of everyone on board. I'm not sure if i'm recalling the correct dev quote about the correct matter, i need to find it.
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Otherwise 2 capitals with 40 total players inside would consume most of the instance slots, when it doesn't need to with a cap for ships and a higher one for player characters.
I'm sorry, what?
Instancing is a way to reduce server load by managing the amount of entities that need to update.
If you have 1 carrier with 250 players crammed into it, that's 251 entities (plus dependencies) that need to update...
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Instancing is a way to reduce server load by managing the amount of entities that need to update.
If you have 1 carrier with 250 players crammed into it, that's 251 entities (plus dependencies) that need to update...
I wasn't claiming otherwise. When it comes to server load the 1 ship represents far more load (vehicle+player) than 1 player character, that's why 2 different caps can exist for ships and players, allowing obviously more player characters in one instance than allowing ships, and managing that by calculating both the ships active on the instance, and the ones docked (on both stations and capital space ships). So one instance could allow on it let's say 100 ships, yet 200 player characters, counting ship crews as a 2nd cap limit.
Instancing is a way to reduce server load by managing the amount of entities that need to update.
If you have 1 carrier with 250 players crammed into it, that's 251 entities (plus dependencies) that need to update...
I wasn't claiming otherwise. When it comes to server load the 1 ship represents far more load (vehicle+player) than 1 player character, that's why 2 different caps can exist for ships and players, allowing obviously more player characters in one instance than allowing ships, and managing that by calculating both the ships active on the instance, and the ones docked (on both stations and capital space ships). So one instance could allow on it let's say 100 ships, yet 200 player characters, counting ship crews as a 2nd cap limit.
you're assuming they put in 2 caps. Right now they are struggling to get it above 24, so imagine them trying to manage 100 ships and 200 PC's at the same time right now. So at best they can get 24 ships in a single instance (assuming they get the instancing of the ships working) so then what happens if someone wants to eva or a smaller fighter wants to undock? Is PVP going to be who can unload the most smaller fighters to fill the instance and block the opponent from letting their docked fighters get out?
Its great to think up these awesome situations and while normally I would let anyones imagination run wild its time to come back to reality and realize this is CIG who have scaled back their promises and have had trouble delivering above the bare minimum.
Oh have in mind the last years plan they were going on about instancing the interiors of the ship seem to not be what is actually being developed currently. Specially with the recent hints towards large scale instances with more players on them than what they originally wanted to do by compartmentalize players.
However this will only be seen in due time but i think a developer already mentioned the multi-crew ships will not have instanced interiors.
It should be a worry. They introduced multiplayer ships almost a year ago and the only increase they've made is raising the number by 8. The new network code they were rumoured to be using has a hard coded cap of 64 per instance.
If they are rewriting the whole netcode then there's no point on spend development on applying bandages to a system they will eventually replace. This is what happens on currently the 2.X releases, 2.3 to > 2.4 degraded server performance, 2.4 to 2.5 also degraded server performance and they already know and admit to it, but they can't "fix" something they will replace.
Side of that, on the current release i think they already do limit both multi-crew and single-seat ships to different caps, while the player can't spawn a multi-crew ship he can spawn a single-seat one. It's that kind of capacity limit they can balance out per instance.
Also notice what i posted before i quoted you, Interiors of ships are not instanced. They are culled depending on your location relative to that ship. Like, if you're 20KM away from an idris you don't need to know the precise location of everyone on board. I'm not sure if i'm recalling the correct dev quote about the correct matter, i need to find it.
Are they culling though? part of the current networking problem is that everyone is receiving updates for everyone else's activities regardless of their relation to them. This is the main cause of poor performance.
Have they even got to 100 per instance yet? Once they actually get there then they can worry about that. For now though I think their bigger problem is they have ships that carry more people then an instance allows
That's not a worry, as said several times the instance limits will be counting ships not players (though certainly there has to be a hard-cap on players), so an Capital Ship with 3 Ships Docked inside will count as 4, even though there can be 20 players inside.
Ok the. So the question should be have they got that working where the ships are counted as an instance and not the players themselves? What happens if the players leave the ship to board another one? Will they get a sorry instance full message? Have they solved the issue where people on one ship clip right through another ship cause the physics grid doesn't recognize them?
These should be huge worries in CIG's mind and in the backers mind because if they haven't figured it out yet then it makes you wonder what the hell are they doing?
Clipping problem --> Work in Progress. The more testing, the more bugs are fixed.
Instances: current instance limit: 24 (about to go up again soon according to recent hints from CR ... take it with a grain of salt as always .. maybe we hear more from GamesCom tomorrow) largest player ship crew: 23 (Idris) (it is possible that capital ships consist of more than one instance ... especially the Bengal) So yes, currently even the largest crew fits into an instance.
Players boarding another ship - lets assume a typical situation (Caterpillar pirates board Constellation).
Step 2: EVA boarding, max Instance population: 6 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) + 4 pirate boarders on EVA Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew
Step 3: ship boarding, max Instance population: 8 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew + 4 pirate boarders (crew is killed by pirates)
Step 4: ship capture, max Instance population: 4 Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 pirate boarders
You can add 1-3 escort fighters on each side, with 1-2 pilots each. Still no problem, even now with 24 max instance limit.
If someone wants to board and capture an Idris, it gets more interesting. At the moment this would only be possible if the Idris consists of more than one instance. Personally I am optimistic that they can crank up the max limit to at least that what we see in other games (=64).
Have fun
Also you bring up a good point. If the ships themselves are instanced then the easiest way to fight back boarding parties is to just have a full ship instance. If the idris can hold 23 people then just have 23 people on board and congrats no one can board your ship so you are safe from thieves. Now just bring enough fighters to deter people wanting to blow up your ship and you've beaten the game
Oh have in mind the last years plan they were going on about instancing the interiors of the ship seem to not be what is actually being developed currently. Specially with the recent hints towards large scale instances with more players on them than what they originally wanted to do by compartmentalize players.
However this will only be seen in due time but i think a developer already mentioned the multi-crew ships will not have instanced interiors.
It should be a worry. They introduced multiplayer ships almost a year ago and the only increase they've made is raising the number by 8. The new network code they were rumoured to be using has a hard coded cap of 64 per instance.
If they are rewriting the whole netcode then there's no point on spend development on applying bandages to a system they will eventually replace. This is what happens on currently the 2.X releases, 2.3 to > 2.4 degraded server performance, 2.4 to 2.5 also degraded server performance and they already know and admit to it, but they can't "fix" something they will replace.
Side of that, on the current release i think they already do limit both multi-crew and single-seat ships to different caps, while the player can't spawn a multi-crew ship he can spawn a single-seat one. It's that kind of capacity limit they can balance out per instance.
Also notice what i posted before i quoted you, Interiors of ships are not instanced. They are culled depending on your location relative to that ship. Like, if you're 20KM away from an idris you don't need to know the precise location of everyone on board. I'm not sure if i'm recalling the correct dev quote about the correct matter, i need to find it.
Are they culling though? part of the current networking problem is that everyone is receiving updates for everyone else's activities regardless of their relation to them. This is the main cause of poor performance.
And that should of been a design consideration before even laying 1 line of network code.
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Comments
It is a MMO, No different than any other. Eve is the worst game to comapre to this as Eve's Mechanics dont account for as much in a fight as SC will/Already Does. Also with EvE if more than X amount of players are in a system the entire game in that system slows to a crawl with is the worst way for them to handle it. let alone they lock out entry to that system. Now we don't know what SC will do in that instance, we will have to wait and find out.
Some feel it is about Chris...i don't.
Ignore this video or game entirely and just look at the internet and gaming in general.
People for some unknown reason,since just about a year or so beyond Wow ,began buying just about ANYTHING,spending money on everything from peripherals to ANY game hyped by anyone.
Then i discovered Twitch and that seriously opened my eyes and what gamer's are like in general,especially since there is live chatting and interaction.
once again,it reconfirmed that gamer's WASTE a LOT of money,so much that Twitch became a million dollar business and sold to Amazon a virtual giant.
It is has become so much about $$ now,games and their quality seem to not matter at all.I see games often just piles of crap in the top streaming list,why,well because the top streamers that make loads of money are streaming them,to again make loads more money.
So how does that all surround SC,easy ,Chris saw a platform to get FREE handouts from all these wasted spenders.
I drew a simple conclusion VERY early on,this guy Chris CLAIMS he has loads of money,none of the speculations are accurate "according to him" because he says he has his own money and is not wasting pledges or money that has been GIVEN to him to build the game and for NO other purpose.
Well guess what,he pitched a 6 mil game,then why if he has all that money did he go LEECHING from naive foolish spenders in the first place?No rocket scientist needed here,he saw an EASY EXPLOIT to take advantage of.
So in my view,he is actually exploiting people and TRIES to justify it with so called updated game modes or additions.Guess what,you build upon the PROMISED 6 mil game with profits,NOT with people's free handout money,that was SUPPOSE to build a finished game and not these continued promises of more and more,the ONLY real MORE is more $$$$.
Then of course the OBVIOUS,why are all the game packages,ship sales,,lmao need anyone explain this,no of course not.Selling virtual items has proven to be lucrative,even without a game he was easily selling these ships.I have mentioned it before,no LAWS yet to sue a guy like this for exploitation but i guarantee in a number of years there will be and we will never again see a CR type scammer..i mean exploiter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It remains to be seen if they can pull this 100% off. I am a bit skeptical tbh. When the first fully functional solar system makes it to Alpha with all systems working we will have solid ground for further debate.
And yeah GW2 still runs into the issue of no free slots to join your guild/friends, specially on world bosses and events.
Otherwise 2 capitals with 40 total players inside would consume most of the instance slots, when it doesn't need to with a cap for ships and a higher one for player characters.
These should be huge worries in CIG's mind and in the backers mind because if they haven't figured it out yet then it makes you wonder what the hell are they doing?
I mean if this game takes off like people think it will then there will be a few thousand ships trying to fight over stuff.
The PvE part causes severe annoyances, every time we needed to do major events, on an organized run teamspeak, we had to:
- All players jump to the same place on the same map at the same time.
- The organizers do this as an attempt to force the game to open a new instance.
- After decide on an instance they taxi the most people they can get inside into it.
- Then we waited around half a hour before the event started.
Then yeah, we can do some of the hardest world bosses on the game, that is only possible this way due the high level of organization and players required to beat the specific boss requires all this work to get us to open a fresh instance of the game otherwise we could only fit around 50 people on the boss group and just fail it constantly. So i wouldn't say "limit it's there so you enjoy the game".
On SC with its PvP aspect the need to bigger instances comes in mind, yet at the end is guaranteed the game will have to be running multiple instances of the same place at the same time, so it needs a decent system to avoid users playing together of being split into more than one instance, giving them priority instead.
They can very well put this instance has 100 Ships limit, including a 5 Capital Ship Limit (i think there's already a limit of single-seat vs multi-crew ships on the game) soft-limit and a total of 150-200 player characters limit. The rest will fall to the logic of the instance manager.
Instances:
current instance limit: 24 (about to go up again soon according to recent hints from CR ... take it with a grain of salt as always .. maybe we hear more from GamesCom tomorrow)
largest player ship crew: 23 (Idris)
(it is possible that capital ships consist of more than one instance ... especially the Bengal)
So yes, currently even the largest crew fits into an instance.
Players boarding another ship - lets assume a typical situation (Caterpillar pirates board Constellation).
Step 1: ship fight, Connie loses, max Instance population: 5
Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation
Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 5 crew
Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew
Step 2: EVA boarding, max Instance population: 6
Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space) + 4 pirate boarders on EVA
Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew
Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew
Step 3: ship boarding, max Instance population: 8
Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space)
Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew
Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 crew + 4 pirate boarders (crew is killed by pirates)
Step 4: ship capture, max Instance population: 4
Instance 1 : 1 Caterpillar + 1 Constellation (dead in space)
Instance 2 : Caterpillar with 1 crew
Instance 3 : Constellation with 4 pirate boarders
You can add 1-3 escort fighters on each side, with 1-2 pilots each. Still no problem, even now with 24 max instance limit.
If someone wants to board and capture an Idris, it gets more interesting. At the moment this would only be possible if the Idris consists of more than one instance. Personally I am optimistic that they can crank up the max limit to at least that what we see in other games (=64).
Have fun
It should be a worry. They introduced multiplayer ships almost a year ago and the only increase they've made is raising the number by 8.
The new network code they were rumoured to be using has a hard coded cap of 64 per instance.
I'm also very sceptical of claims that instance count only equals ships, what's going to happen if you have 4 ships with 20 players on each and they all decide to EVA for funsies?
While everything is inside a ship it counts as its own zone (nested instance) so it won't be a worry there but as soon as they leave the ship...
It would be nice to see how they're progressing on this front, on a tech level it's quite interesting and I'd like to see it running with some bots or whatever.
If they are rewriting the whole netcode then there's no point on spend development on applying bandages to a system they will eventually replace. This is what happens on currently the 2.X releases, 2.3 to > 2.4 degraded server performance, 2.4 to 2.5 also degraded server performance and they already know and admit to it, but they can't "fix" something they will replace.
Side of that, on the current release i think they already do limit both multi-crew and single-seat ships to different caps, while the player can't spawn a multi-crew ship he can spawn a single-seat one. It's that kind of capacity limit they can balance out per instance.
Also notice what i posted before i quoted you, Interiors of ships are not instanced. They are culled depending on your location relative to that ship. Like, if you're 20KM away from an idris you don't need to know the precise location of everyone on board. I'm not sure if i'm recalling the correct dev quote about the correct matter, i need to find it.
Instancing is a way to reduce server load by managing the amount of entities that need to update.
If you have 1 carrier with 250 players crammed into it, that's 251 entities (plus dependencies) that need to update...
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you're assuming they put in 2 caps. Right now they are struggling to get it above 24, so imagine them trying to manage 100 ships and 200 PC's at the same time right now. So at best they can get 24 ships in a single instance (assuming they get the instancing of the ships working) so then what happens if someone wants to eva or a smaller fighter wants to undock? Is PVP going to be who can unload the most smaller fighters to fill the instance and block the opponent from letting their docked fighters get out?
Its great to think up these awesome situations and while normally I would let anyones imagination run wild its time to come back to reality and realize this is CIG who have scaled back their promises and have had trouble delivering above the bare minimum.
Doesn't mean you can't add gameplay features to take advantage of the multiplayer ships though. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4xx28b/multicrew_probably_my_main_letdown_with_sc_as_of/
Are they culling though? part of the current networking problem is that everyone is receiving updates for everyone else's activities regardless of their relation to them. This is the main cause of poor performance.
Also you bring up a good point. If the ships themselves are instanced then the easiest way to fight back boarding parties is to just have a full ship instance. If the idris can hold 23 people then just have 23 people on board and congrats no one can board your ship so you are safe from thieves. Now just bring enough fighters to deter people wanting to blow up your ship and you've beaten the game
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