The gambling comments are interesting. I think many backed because they saw it as NOT gambling, it was a 'sure thing'... Inevitable success, Roberts had fate and karma on his side.
Backers put in so much because the game looked destined, and they would have an amazing fleet of ships in the best space game of all time.
now it's being rationalised as gambling, which is what in fact it was but that was not the thought going in.
The gambling comments are interesting. I think many backed because they saw it as NOT gambling, it was a 'sure thing'... Inevitable success, Roberts had fate and karma on his side.
Backers put in so much because the game looked destined, and they would have an amazing fleet of ships in the best space game of all time.
now it's being rationalised as gambling, which is what in fact it was but that was not the thought going in.
I wouldn't consider it gambling, as with gambling you should expect to lose. No, I considered and consider it a vision worth supporting and I backed because I like to contribute to things that have a high chance of turning out great. However, I understood and understand that it might fail.
That said, to me, being released without all features or without all content isn't a failure. I would never expect something as ambitious as this to be released in perfect condition and certainly not in a timely fashion.
What I do expect is a true evolution from Freelancer/Wing Commander with high production values and a strong multiplayer infrastructure.
As long as I get that, I will consider my money well spent. Obviously, I'm hoping for something extra too, but I don't confuse hope with expectations.
That said, to me, being released without all features or without all content isn't a failure. I would never expect something as ambitious as this to be released in perfect condition and certainly not in a timely fashion.
Your wish has been granted
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
That said, to me, being released without all features or without all content isn't a failure. I would never expect something as ambitious as this to be released in perfect condition and certainly not in a timely fashion.
Your wish has been granted
You don't seem to understand the difference between a wish and an expectation
I have enough experience with the industry and the nature of development to understand that something like Star Citizen of the current scope and design would be absolutely impossible to finish in 3 years. It doesn't matter how much money and how many people you had working on it - as you have to coordinate everything and you'd have to foresee all problems before they occurred.
That's not the reality we're dealing with as human beings.
My personal estimate for a game like Star Citizen - as Chris Roberts has imagined it - would be around 7 years with a 200+ man team. That would be my gut speaking from 30+ years as a passionate gamer, amateur developer and a keen follower of countless big projects - including CR stuff like Strike Commander, Freelancer, Wing Commander 3 and Wing Commander 4.
So, if this game releases in 2017 or 2018 - I don't believe it'll have everything they're planning. It could have most of it, sure, but not all of it. Also, this kind of game will take at least 12 months in the hands of the public to iron out all the serious balance and performance issues.
You don't seem to understand the difference between a wish and an expectation
I have enough experience with the industry and the nature of development to understand that something like Star Citizen of the current scope and design would be absolutely impossible to finish in 3 years. It doesn't matter how much money and how many people you had working on it - as you have to coordinate everything and you'd have to foresee all problems before they occurred.
That's not the reality we're dealing with as human beings.
My personal estimate for a game like Star Citizen - as Chris Roberts has imagined it - would be around 7 years with a 200+ man team. That would be my gut speaking from 30+ years as a passionate gamer, amateur developer and a keen follower of countless big projects - including CR stuff like Strike Commander, Freelancer, Wing Commander 3 and Wing Commander 4.
So, if this game releases in 2017 or 2018 - I don't believe it'll have everything they're planning. It could have most of it, sure, but not all of it. Also, this kind of game will take at least 12 months in the hands of the public to iron out all the serious balance and performance issues.
In a best case scenario MAYBE, but they have had at least 3 years to show us something. There is an th a couple module that people can repeat the same thing over and over again for a few minutes but thats it. They got 'serious' 2.5 years ago (according to the supporters( so they have still had 2.5 years to do something. Of course the excuse/reason for that is they had ot rebuild the engine. Still no actual proof of that but thats another debate. But every excuse or reason they give sounds logical and plausible but they have already used every exucse they can think of as to why there is really nothing tangible in terms of an MMO being shown about this game.
So like I have said for the third time in this thread and for the 20th time overall unless they have SQ 42 (which isnt even multiplayer) mod nearly complete and ready for sale today they have little to no chance of finishing this MMO in 10 more years.
SQ 42 really should be simple. It is a 'basic' building block, but their ability to make it would at least show they have the ability to build something (that works) on this 'hybrid' version of the game engine. While its not an MMO or multiplayer portion it at least shows the ability to utilize the engine in some way and also shows they actually have the ability to finish something and give it to people in a finished state. Something that Roberts has never done.
This project and what we have actually seen is barely a building block to a minimal mulitplayer experience let alone being or becoming the best space sim ever created.
Roberts made a manifesto speech in Dec promising monthly updates to the test bed. That was 9 months ago, they have had 5 updates. All of them less than earth shattering, and none of them changing anything fundamentally that would make people think they can make a full blown MMO. Other than their extremely minimalist attempt at persistence that is extremely buggy and doesnt save 'stuff' half the time its supposed to. Now supporters will claim theyre busy fixing bugs and getting whats there working correctly. Sounds good but its not happening every fix revealed new problems and every minimal change they make causes even more. Going the 'bug fixing' route might be OK if they were so woefully behind that there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel for this project.
Also its hard for people to argue this is the most open development ever and then also hope they have more than people know about. But we all know this isnt anywhere near an open development. And I use development in a very loose sense.
So while they are seemingly doing something it isnt anywhere intense enough or involved enough to give anyone confidence that any MMO of any level can be released in the foreseeable future.
Some companies start small and build up, delivering a little bit of gaming goodness and moving up to a bigger delivery the next time. A good example for me is something like Torchlight; ex Diablo devs wanted ultimately to make an MMO so they first delivered Torchlight 1, a great little self contained game that allowed them to prototype bigger things *while still delivering a complete and fun game*. Torchlight 2 was more ambitious, had multiplayer, bigger maps, more tech, and was also fully realised. They never made the MMO (as yet), I guess partly because it's still too big a leap, but they remained financially solid and didn't overreach.
There is a large gap between thinking you can do something amazing and doing it, and I think everyone underestimated the challenge of this with SC. the story was that it was big publishers preventing this kind of game from appearing; well, CIG have been independent and extremely well funded for years, but they have both project management and technical issues that are preventing the game from appearing.
they say the definition of madness is to do he same thing again and again but expect different results. I'm not seeing any evolution in both how Chris manages projects, or any major changes in direction to overcome their obstacles. CIG are just ploughing on in the same furrow and expecting that it will suddenly come right.
Seen quite a few projects like this. The term we use is 'death spiral'.
Comments
Backers put in so much because the game looked destined, and they would have an amazing fleet of ships in the best space game of all time.
now it's being rationalised as gambling, which is what in fact it was but that was not the thought going in.
That said, to me, being released without all features or without all content isn't a failure. I would never expect something as ambitious as this to be released in perfect condition and certainly not in a timely fashion.
What I do expect is a true evolution from Freelancer/Wing Commander with high production values and a strong multiplayer infrastructure.
As long as I get that, I will consider my money well spent. Obviously, I'm hoping for something extra too, but I don't confuse hope with expectations.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
I have enough experience with the industry and the nature of development to understand that something like Star Citizen of the current scope and design would be absolutely impossible to finish in 3 years. It doesn't matter how much money and how many people you had working on it - as you have to coordinate everything and you'd have to foresee all problems before they occurred.
That's not the reality we're dealing with as human beings.
My personal estimate for a game like Star Citizen - as Chris Roberts has imagined it - would be around 7 years with a 200+ man team. That would be my gut speaking from 30+ years as a passionate gamer, amateur developer and a keen follower of countless big projects - including CR stuff like Strike Commander, Freelancer, Wing Commander 3 and Wing Commander 4.
So, if this game releases in 2017 or 2018 - I don't believe it'll have everything they're planning. It could have most of it, sure, but not all of it. Also, this kind of game will take at least 12 months in the hands of the public to iron out all the serious balance and performance issues.
So like I have said for the third time in this thread and for the 20th time overall unless they have SQ 42 (which isnt even multiplayer) mod nearly complete and ready for sale today they have little to no chance of finishing this MMO in 10 more years.
SQ 42 really should be simple. It is a 'basic' building block, but their ability to make it would at least show they have the ability to build something (that works) on this 'hybrid' version of the game engine. While its not an MMO or multiplayer portion it at least shows the ability to utilize the engine in some way and also shows they actually have the ability to finish something and give it to people in a finished state. Something that Roberts has never done.
This project and what we have actually seen is barely a building block to a minimal mulitplayer experience let alone being or becoming the best space sim ever created.
Roberts made a manifesto speech in Dec promising monthly updates to the test bed. That was 9 months ago, they have had 5 updates. All of them less than earth shattering, and none of them changing anything fundamentally that would make people think they can make a full blown MMO. Other than their extremely minimalist attempt at persistence that is extremely buggy and doesnt save 'stuff' half the time its supposed to. Now supporters will claim theyre busy fixing bugs and getting whats there working correctly. Sounds good but its not happening every fix revealed new problems and every minimal change they make causes even more. Going the 'bug fixing' route might be OK if they were so woefully behind that there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel for this project.
Also its hard for people to argue this is the most open development ever and then also hope they have more than people know about. But we all know this isnt anywhere near an open development. And I use development in a very loose sense.
So while they are seemingly doing something it isnt anywhere intense enough or involved enough to give anyone confidence that any MMO of any level can be released in the foreseeable future.
There is a large gap between thinking you can do something amazing and doing it, and I think everyone underestimated the challenge of this with SC. the story was that it was big publishers preventing this kind of game from appearing; well, CIG have been independent and extremely well funded for years, but they have both project management and technical issues that are preventing the game from appearing.
they say the definition of madness is to do he same thing again and again but expect different results. I'm not seeing any evolution in both how Chris manages projects, or any major changes in direction to overcome their obstacles. CIG are just ploughing on in the same furrow and expecting that it will suddenly come right.
Seen quite a few projects like this. The term we use is 'death spiral'.