you're assuming they put in 2 caps. Right now they are struggling to get it above 24, so imagine them trying to manage 100 ships and 200 PC's at the same time right now. So at best they can get 24 ships in a single instance (assuming they get the instancing of the ships working) so then what happens if someone wants to eva or a smaller fighter wants to undock? Is PVP going to be who can unload the most smaller fighters to fill the instance and block the opponent from letting their docked fighters get out?
I'm basing myself of what was said here. When the 2.0 PTU firstly hit, they had i up to 40 player characters and 16 ship limit, this was reversed before 2.0 released (to same cap of ships = players) because well most people just wanted to spawn a ship and the cap didn't allow it, so this makes more sense when actually crew gameplay is fleshed out and transitions in-between instances of ships with player crew happen.
Seeing the capital ships there's really not a high number of ships you can dock of them, expect for the Idris to be 4 ships, the Begal that is that monster where you can dock one Idris inside LOL. Yet what was said is that the ships that are DOCKED (non-active) will count towards the instance limit.
I think the Bengal with people speculate able to dock +50 Ships that is a persistent ship on the universe is going to be pretty much the "endgame" of this very same thing. I think they have to figure out first how to add something as massive as the bengal on the game first haha.
Are they culling though? part of the current networking problem is that everyone is receiving updates for everyone else's activities regardless of their relation to them. This is the main cause of poor performance.
That if i recall correctly is what they are doing on the rewrite as well that is Network LOD's. It will send the data necessary when it is needed, unlike it is currently. That's why you're supposed to approach a multi-crew ship and attack it, without loading or even getting data from the position of the crew inside that ship, likely triggered by Distance, or the crew themselves leaving / ejecting / un-docking from the ship.
The way CIG uses the word instanced is very broad and many people don't understand it. Heck I don't think even they understand how it is going to work. In theory you take 1k ships and they all warp to the same place. Those ships are in an instance. Then on another cpu they have running an instance for each of the ships interior. So its seamless when you blow a hole in the side of a ship and enter the ship from outside. They simply move you into the other instance. Really its confusion because of how the word instances have been experienced in the past.
You have to remember that the servers are only keeping track of positions, numbers, not rendering the graphics. Your computer will render the graphics for each instance on its own. And when you try to board a ship that has too many players idk how they are going to handle that or if they even need to.
The guy in the video said it, at least based on the info he had that is way too old to be reliable. EVERYTHING is going to be an instance. So if youre in your private ship that is instanced, if you dock it with a bigger ship it is an instance within and instance. When you leave your ship then you occupy the same instance (as your personal ship). When you enter the ship proper that is also an instance. So the inside of the ship is an instance, the "outside" docking area is an instance, the environment they want to look like open space around the bigger ship is an instance, the 'space' outside of that larger ships immediate area is an instance. Its ALL instances. With varying degrees of perspective but no matter if an instance is supposed to have the scope of a planet or even a solar system they will all still have the same cap as one that represents the inside of the smallest perspective instance (like a ships cabin, but they would more than likely cap those lower but their hard top cap would still be the same.) Basically line up a bunch of shoe boxes and put them all together and that is what theyre doing with the game, each shoe box has a hard limit of what you can put into it You dont HAVE to put all that into it but it only allows for so much space. But one shoebox is you ship another is a capital ship, another is 'space', another is a hanger etc etc etc. There is nothing bigger(or smaller) than anything else just the perspective. Now they can make different sized ones, but from what I have ascertained that still wont allow them to increase the population cap, so I doubt they would do it.
I doubt they have figured all that out yet and why there hasnt been an update on any of it yet. Either they figure it out or they have to severely diminish all the updating things in the universe/instance have to do. Which is more than likely going to be the ultimate solution. Thinking they can instance 4 different things and have all the things you carry in update seamlessly in each specific instance within an instance is pretty difficult. Already been discussed by a few people. I am sure the links are somewhere for guys to look.
So its still putting that cart way before the horse, which is why people thinking this game is years away are fooling themselves, they havent even got persistence figured out and that is basically the most fundamental of fundamentals in terms of an online organic game world. Of course the game world is important, but they sort of have a working model for that the only questions now are what are the parameters of it, which we dont know. I have seen 8 people and a couple ships in one spot on the test bed. So they can at least have that many right now. What the hard cap is at this moment I dont know I suspect someone will make a claim but until I see some streamers and some of their subs ;prove' it I wouldnt trust any figures.
The way CIG uses the word instanced is very broad and many people don't understand it. Heck I don't think even they understand how it is going to work. In theory you take 1k ships and they all warp to the same place. Those ships are in an instance. Then on another cpu they have running an instance for each of the ships interior. So its seamless when you blow a hole in the side of a ship and enter the ship from outside. They simply move you into the other instance. Really its confusion because of how the word instances have been experienced in the past.
You have to remember that the servers are only keeping track of positions, numbers, not rendering the graphics. Your computer will render the graphics for each instance on its own. And when you try to board a ship that has too many players idk how they are going to handle that or if they even need to.
Yeah the way the word instance is thrown we usually assign it of what we are used to as one instance, however it's not as they do it here. Netcode wise it seems the biggest thing they are doing is LOD's that strict how the whole data flows on an instance and only updates as necessary towards other clients, this seems to be why they can have the interior of the multi-crew but the player yet he won't receive any updates on what is happening on its interior unless it is necessary.
The instance limit has to allow for every player to be EVA plus the ship total. Otherwise it will break. Ship instance limit probably has to allow for crew x 3 to cater for boarding parties as well as residents. Ships may also hold resident strike forces of multiple 'grunts' so the ship cap has to be able to deal with that too.
Then you have to considers Goonswarm. They will Zerg an instance.
The instance limit has to allow for every player to be EVA plus the ship total. Otherwise it will break. Ship instance limit probably has to allow for crew x 3 to cater for boarding parties as well as residents. Ships may also hold resident strike forces of multiple 'grunts' so the ship cap has to be able to deal with that too.
Then you have to considers Goonswarm. They will Zerg an instance.
Yup like I said its an instance within an instance and you have to acct for changes. If a guy in in his ship within an instance and he steps out of his ship he doubles the number of objects in the instance.
This is a hyper technical (even more than usual regarding this) point, but because it seems like their threshold is basically zero is has to be broken down all the way.
So if the hard cap is even 64 (highly unlikely they get to half that number). And 14 ships with 5 people each enter and 4 crew from all ships leave the ship (its own instance) then the instance the ships are in reaches a number of 78.
So all these anticipated EVA battles people are dreaming about will at best be load in and leave your ship as fast as you can before any locks happen (assuming that will be how they handle not allowing too many items in the instance)
People can play these arent your daddys instances semantics all they want, but the point is we all now how instances work, problem is we havent seen them presented in a such a limited way. Well technically they havent been presented at all but in this PROPOSED way. Which for a proposal is pretty dismal when we all know how optimistic these guys are with stuff they dont have to have proof of.
The instance limit has to allow for every player to be EVA plus the ship total. Otherwise it will break. Ship instance limit probably has to allow for crew x 3 to cater for boarding parties as well as residents. Ships may also hold resident strike forces of multiple 'grunts' so the ship cap has to be able to deal with that too.
Then you have to considers Goonswarm. They will Zerg an instance.
The instance is global, all the crew and ships docked inside a multi-crew ship are counted towards everything that happens on that instance.
One thing is right, nobody should expect EVE from SC when it comes to this. They can still make big instances but it shall still be not possible to put thousands on the same area if on the global of the game there's thousands of players there.
And we should be seeing this going live on the next 4 months as 2.7 is set to release late this year, with the playable solar system that implies the netcode rewrite and the zoning system (transition in-between instances). So on this one is a way and see!
The instance limit has to allow for every player to be EVA plus the ship total. Otherwise it will break. Ship instance limit probably has to allow for crew x 3 to cater for boarding parties as well as residents. Ships may also hold resident strike forces of multiple 'grunts' so the ship cap has to be able to deal with that too.
Then you have to considers Goonswarm. They will Zerg an instance.
The instance is global, all the crew and ships docked inside a multi-crew ship are counted towards everything that happens on that instance.
One thing is right, nobody should expect EVE from SC when it comes to this. They can still make big instances but it shall still be not possible to put thousands on the same area if on the global of the game there's thousands of players there.
The problem isn't that there won't be thousands, it's that there might be under 20.
It isn't already. And it's clearly stated it will obviously increase.
Again, 2.7 is staled to release late this year, with the playable solar system that implies the netcode rewrite and the zoning system (transition in-between instances).
So it's a matter of wait and see, hopefully 2.7 doesn't get pushed back and we get to play through this on the next 4 months and see by ourselves how it shall work. Or maybe they'll show it Friday on Gamescon.
It isn't already. And it's clearly stated it will obviously increase.
Again, 2.7 is staled to release late this year, with the playable solar system that implies the netcode rewrite and the zoning system (transition in-between instances).
So it's a matter of wait and see, hopefully 2.7 doesn't get pushed back and we get to play through this on the next 4 months and see by ourselves how it shall work. Or maybe they'll show it Friday on Gamescon.
2.7 later this year......star marine is a few weeks away. Man 2.7 is going to be coming out sometime in 2019
I liked the guys review as it has positives and negatives for both sides of the argument. No game is completely perfect or messed up, it usually ends up being somewhere in the middle if it's lucky.
Star Citizen is a great idea but it's trying to do to much at the same time. It's hard enough to make 0ne AAA game let alone several. Like the reviewer said he tried to do the same thing with Freelancer, it didn't work out.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Kefo said: 2.7 later this year......star marine is a few weeks away. Man 2.7 is going to be coming out sometime in 2019
They are still on track on what Erin Roberts said earlier this year that persistence and PG planets were to release this year, so persistence is already here, PG is the next major goal.
idk, i take dates better when it's not CR stating them, yet the producers responsible for it as Erin (globally) and Tony (PU specific).
I liked the guys review as it has positives and negatives for both sides of the argument. No game is completely perfect or messed up, it usually ends up being somewhere in the middle if it's lucky.
Yeah what i expect is a fun game to play, i don't think SC will be any "return of Christ in form of a game" as i see some people expecting on, i like what i am already to play on the alpha and its direction. It's not yet the said game, but speaking for myself i can see what the game is meant to be and be played as from it.
I don't just expect a fun game to play, I expect them to deliver on all of their promises that led to them receiving over $100,000,000 in crowdfunding.
I don't just expect a fun game to play, I expect them to deliver on all of their promises that led to them receiving over $100,000,000 in crowdfunding.
You can expect that. But you should be aware they already claimed not all crowdfund goals will be delivered by "1.0" so well, you better be angry about it now than later (if you're angry about it).
That was not my expectation of what was promised. I expected them to meet the stretch goals with 1.0.
That they are not giving dates for anything makes them even more suspect. 1.0 could be 10 years off for all I know. Since they aren't releasing any dates, all I know is that Squadron 42 is coming in 2016 and Star Citizen is coming out at some indefinite time.
Angry isn't quite right. Disappointed and... I have a very low opinion of them at this point. What a waste of resources and public support.
I fully expect them to continue to have troubles with organization and management. Some of those issues may be based on decisions of long ago. IE Choice of engine, deciding to use modular development, not laying the proper groundwork for future designs, stretch goals that were pulled out of a hat with no real conception of how they'd be delivered. ETC. Competent design teams can only overcome just so much.
Strike Commander went through three different engines, iirc, and was three years late. Freelancer was bungled. And four+ years late; that in its cut down version even with Roberts' micromanagement removed from the project.
Far from the pompous claims of 'each dollar being worth three!', it's more like 'three times the overhead due to the egomaniac at the top'. I absolutely see the spector of Digital Anvil leering over the project(s).
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Kefo said: 2.7 later this year......star marine is a few weeks away. Man 2.7 is going to be coming out sometime in 2019
They are still on track on what Erin Roberts said earlier this year that persistence and PG planets were to release this year, so persistence is already here, PG is the next major goal.
idk, i take dates better when it's not CR stating them, yet the producers responsible for it as Erin (globally) and Tony (PU specific).
I liked the guys review as it has positives and negatives for both sides of the argument. No game is completely perfect or messed up, it usually ends up being somewhere in the middle if it's lucky.
Yeah what i expect is a fun game to play, i don't think SC will be any "return of Christ in form of a game" as i see some people expecting on, i like what i am already to play on the alpha and its direction. It's not yet the said game, but speaking for myself i can see what the game is meant to be and be played as from it.
Erin Might have a better grip on reality with game dev and can give better release date estimates but that won't change the fact he still answers to Chris. Erin can come out and say a certain feature is going to be released in 3 months and Chris can swoop in and demand everything be changed to fit his current mood. They might be on track to fully release PG but Chris might want a new algorithm created so back to the drawing board with it!
If they hand the whole thing over to Erin and walk away that would be a great move - we will get a proper game. It might be Freelancer 2 but hey, would that be a bad thing? I liked Freelancer.
Kefo said: 2.7 later this year......star marine is a few weeks away. Man 2.7 is going to be coming out sometime in 2019
They are still on track on what Erin Roberts said earlier this year that persistence and PG planets were to release this year, so persistence is already here, PG is the next major goal.
idk, i take dates better when it's not CR stating them, yet the producers responsible for it as Erin (globally) and Tony (PU specific).
I don't think it's realistic for them to release 3 major updates for Star Citizen and Squadron 42 all within four and a half months.
Comments
Seeing the capital ships there's really not a high number of ships you can dock of them, expect for the Idris to be 4 ships, the Begal that is that monster where you can dock one Idris inside LOL. Yet what was said is that the ships that are DOCKED (non-active) will count towards the instance limit.
I think the Bengal with people speculate able to dock +50 Ships that is a persistent ship on the universe is going to be pretty much the "endgame" of this very same thing. I think they have to figure out first how to add something as massive as the bengal on the game first haha.
It will send the data necessary when it is needed, unlike it is currently. That's why you're supposed to approach a multi-crew ship and attack it, without loading or even getting data from the position of the crew inside that ship, likely triggered by Distance, or the crew themselves leaving / ejecting / un-docking from the ship.
You have to remember that the servers are only keeping track of positions, numbers, not rendering the graphics. Your computer will render the graphics for each instance on its own. And when you try to board a ship that has too many players idk how they are going to handle that or if they even need to.
I doubt they have figured all that out yet and why there hasnt been an update on any of it yet. Either they figure it out or they have to severely diminish all the updating things in the universe/instance have to do. Which is more than likely going to be the ultimate solution. Thinking they can instance 4 different things and have all the things you carry in update seamlessly in each specific instance within an instance is pretty difficult. Already been discussed by a few people. I am sure the links are somewhere for guys to look.
So its still putting that cart way before the horse, which is why people thinking this game is years away are fooling themselves, they havent even got persistence figured out and that is basically the most fundamental of fundamentals in terms of an online organic game world. Of course the game world is important, but they sort of have a working model for that the only questions now are what are the parameters of it, which we dont know. I have seen 8 people and a couple ships in one spot on the test bed. So they can at least have that many right now. What the hard cap is at this moment I dont know I suspect someone will make a claim but until I see some streamers and some of their subs ;prove' it I wouldnt trust any figures.
Then you have to considers Goonswarm. They will Zerg an instance.
This is a hyper technical (even more than usual regarding this) point, but because it seems like their threshold is basically zero is has to be broken down all the way.
So if the hard cap is even 64 (highly unlikely they get to half that number). And 14 ships with 5 people each enter and 4 crew from all ships leave the ship (its own instance) then the instance the ships are in reaches a number of 78.
So all these anticipated EVA battles people are dreaming about will at best be load in and leave your ship as fast as you can before any locks happen (assuming that will be how they handle not allowing too many items in the instance)
People can play these arent your daddys instances semantics all they want, but the point is we all now how instances work, problem is we havent seen them presented in a such a limited way. Well technically they havent been presented at all but in this PROPOSED way. Which for a proposal is pretty dismal when we all know how optimistic these guys are with stuff they dont have to have proof of.
One thing is right, nobody should expect EVE from SC when it comes to this. They can still make big instances but it shall still be not possible to put thousands on the same area if on the global of the game there's thousands of players there.
And we should be seeing this going live on the next 4 months as 2.7 is set to release late this year, with the playable solar system that implies the netcode rewrite and the zoning system (transition in-between instances). So on this one is a way and see!
Again, 2.7 is staled to release late this year, with the playable solar system that implies the netcode rewrite and the zoning system (transition in-between instances).
So it's a matter of wait and see, hopefully 2.7 doesn't get pushed back and we get to play through this on the next 4 months and see by ourselves how it shall work. Or maybe they'll show it Friday on Gamescon.
Star Citizen is a great idea but it's trying to do to much at the same time. It's hard enough to make 0ne AAA game let alone several. Like the reviewer said he tried to do the same thing with Freelancer, it didn't work out.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
idk, i take dates better when it's not CR stating them, yet the producers responsible for it as Erin (globally) and Tony (PU specific).
Yeah what i expect is a fun game to play, i don't think SC will be any "return of Christ in form of a game" as i see some people expecting on, i like what i am already to play on the alpha and its direction. It's not yet the said game, but speaking for myself i can see what the game is meant to be and be played as from it.
That they are not giving dates for anything makes them even more suspect. 1.0 could be 10 years off for all I know. Since they aren't releasing any dates, all I know is that Squadron 42 is coming in 2016 and Star Citizen is coming out at some indefinite time.
Angry isn't quite right. Disappointed and... I have a very low opinion of them at this point. What a waste of resources and public support.
I fully expect them to continue to have troubles with organization and management. Some of those issues may be based on decisions of long ago. IE Choice of engine, deciding to use modular development, not laying the proper groundwork for future designs, stretch goals that were pulled out of a hat with no real conception of how they'd be delivered. ETC. Competent design teams can only overcome just so much.
Strike Commander went through three different engines, iirc, and was three years late. Freelancer was bungled. And four+ years late; that in its cut down version even with Roberts' micromanagement removed from the project.
Far from the pompous claims of 'each dollar being worth three!', it's more like 'three times the overhead due to the egomaniac at the top'. I absolutely see the spector of Digital Anvil leering over the project(s).
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.