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Star Citizen – Shattered Dreams

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'd be more interested in knowing what his MVP is. Was that ever stated?
    No.


    Have fun
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    rodarin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not......
    about as relevant of an argument as 'they very well could be funneling money to aliens to build a Trump headed space ship for all we know'
    Hyperbole aside. What makes more sense? These guys have a project  almost no one talks about anywhere but here. Have disaster after disaster during their live shows. Have had delay after delay. Have a tech demo alpha that is a completely buggy mess. Have followed a plan that a vast majority of players find negative (selling items) along with every other negative issue this game has had over the past 5 years. And despite ALL that they still raise millions upon millions of dollars. While most released games or games with a much better history and much better personal cant raise lunch money. Or theyre lying about the amounts of money coming in?

    The 'product' they are sprinkling out here and there in tiny portions backs up what I think.
    the more 'probable' is that they are actually not masterminds of deception but rather just disorganized and not good at project management full stop.


    One does not craft a mastermind scam and then screw up live shows....

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    rodarin said:
      almost no one talks about anywhere but here.
    Incorrect.

    Google Search for exact string "Star Citizen" using Advanced Google Search.

    "Approximately 5.340.000 results  (0,69 seconds)"

    Try again.


    Have fun

  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    Do you still have to restart the game client between Star Marine matches? 





    In CryEngine..?
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited December 2016
    Erillion said:
    No.

    Here is the truth, this is all ran by the speculative opinions and each individual bias about what the hell the MVP means, and how much of the scope it is to be there by 1.0.

    We had statements before about not all the ships in by 1.0, Alpha 4.0 already includes 85% of All the Game Ships, so yeah one can speculate.

    So people in here building a whole narrative laid over something they simply do not actually know what it is at this point.


    Do you still have to restart the game client between Star Marine matches? 
    That's to accept new invitations, not to start a new match.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Do you still have to restart the game client between Star Marine matches? 


    Star Citizen Patch 2.6.0m



    Important Issues

    • Be advised that, in order to receive new lobby invites, you will need to restart the client after every match.


    Have fun
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited December 2016
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
      almost no one talks about anywhere but here.
    Incorrect.

    Google Search for exact string "Star Citizen" using Advanced Google Search.

    "Approximately 5.340.000 results  (0,69 seconds)"

    Try again.


    Have fun

    Again more nonsense. Obviously something like this 5 or 6 years worth of google searches are going to add up.

    Too bad google didnt have a filter where you could see how many searches for it in the past month, although it probably has gotten more than usual with all the sales and the 2.6 release.

    I am waiting for you to cite a 10 year old video with its few hundred K views on Youtube as proof to how popular it is as well.

    Actually you can filter it in a certain time frame but it doesnt give the numbers like overall does.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    Actually, I think it's more likely that he's using his aggressive target dates as a motivator - to have a goal that's not relaxed, so the developers keep pushing themselves.

    Unfortunately, I think he's underestimating the negative consequences of constantly missing the target.

    By that I don't really mean the ignorant mob bitching about it, but the pressure it must be for the team. It's almost like they're in eternal crunch mode.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited December 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    His actual track record would say EXTREMELY likely. He made a single game and even then he wasnt THE man. He was fired or replaced or whatever semantics you want to use the last few projects he did including independent ones. And until SC came around he hadnt sniffed the inside of a video game development room in over a decade.

    So thanks for making my point for me I guess.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
      almost no one talks about anywhere but here.
    Incorrect.

    Google Search for exact string "Star Citizen" using Advanced Google Search.

    "Approximately 5.340.000 results  (0,69 seconds)"

    Try again.


    Have fun

    Again more nonsense. Obviously something like this 5 or 6 years worth of google searches are going to add up.

    Too bad google didnt have a filter where you could see how many searches for it in the past month, although it probably has gotten more than usual with all the sales and the 2.6 release.

    I am waiting for you to cite a 10 year old video with its few hundred K views on Youtube as proof to how popular it is as well.

    Actually you can filter it in a certain time frame but it doesnt give the numbers like overall does.
    You can calculate it if you want ...

    on average its 25. 673 per WEEK over the last years, roughly 100 k per month on average.


    But I am sure we have to believe you and not Google. Almost NO ONE but us here is talking about Star Citizen as you claim.


    Have fun
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    rodarin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    His actual track record would say EXTREMELY likely. He made a single game and even then he wasnt THE man. He was fired or replaced or whatever semantics you want to use the last few projects he did including independent ones. And until SC came around he hadnt sniffed the inside of a video game development room in over a decade.

    So thanks for making my point for me I guess.
    dont over complicate it.

    so you agree that is just highly likely disorganized and not good a time estimation. Full stop.

    no hidden agenda, no master mind of a scam, no laundering money to aliens, no global trade atrocities, just very simply bad at time management nothing more nothing less. simple as that.
     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    rodarin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    His actual track record would say EXTREMELY likely. He made a single game and even then he wasnt THE man. He was fired or replaced or whatever semantics you want to use the last few projects he did including independent ones. And until SC came around he hadnt sniffed the inside of a video game development room in over a decade.

    So thanks for making my point for me I guess.
    A single game where he wasn't the man? Hahaha, that's a good one.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited December 2016
    The point to be proven: SC release date is nothing but when it actually does, and most certainly that is not as soon as we would want it to. It's simply that. We could whine every day, all day long, run into a spiral of obsession over its release date... nothing changes but development shall continue as it undeniably is.

    As for CR he should keep the production schedules for future releases and do not promote release dates publicly outside the development tracker page people can access. That'll do it.

    Or at least, those dates should be ready for public consumption and not the internal studio deadlines that backfire on them so often.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    MaxBacon said:
    The point to be proven: SC release date is nothing but when it actually does, and most certainly that is not as soon as we would want it to. It's simply that. We could whine every day, all day long, run into a spiral of obsession over its release date... nothing changes but development shall continue as it undeniably is.

    As for CR he should keep the production schedules for future releases and do not promote release dates publicly outside the development tracker page people can access. That'll do it.

    Or at least, those dates should be ready for public consumption and not the internal studio deadlines that backfire on them so often.
    He cant do that. How else will he promote those fake videos they show at the conventions?

    You know the ones, the ones where they show all this stuff that is 'weeks' away from release onto the tech demo server yet somehow none of it has ever been put there since they showed the first one in 2013.

    Or if they do put it in its at best a partial bugged mess.

    Which is the best part of all this because every excuse for why things arent getting release is 'because theyre not ready'. LMAO if that were the case then there wouldnt even be a tech demo for people to log into.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited December 2016
    rodarin said:
    He cant do that. How else will he promote those fake videos they show at the conventions?
    Yes he can. It ain't the backers who are demanding for them to give release dates, in fact if the backers are doing anything is asking him to stop doing it.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    rodarin said:
    MaxBacon said:
    The point to be proven: SC release date is nothing but when it actually does, and most certainly that is not as soon as we would want it to. It's simply that. We could whine every day, all day long, run into a spiral of obsession over its release date... nothing changes but development shall continue as it undeniably is.

    As for CR he should keep the production schedules for future releases and do not promote release dates publicly outside the development tracker page people can access. That'll do it.

    Or at least, those dates should be ready for public consumption and not the internal studio deadlines that backfire on them so often.
    He cant do that. How else will he promote those fake v...
    so you DONT agree with me.

    again, he is NOT a mastermind of depiction. he is just bad a time estimation. Do you understand what that assertion means and how its different?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    Im guessing he is not listening to his project managers. There must be dedicated staff at CIG whise job it is to forecast a reasonably accurate plan, so they can ensure people and funding are in place for critical tasks. I find it hard to believe they would have said 'yeah Chris, 3.0 will be ready by 19th Dec - go and announce it'. Im guessing they probably shat the bed when he said that.

    All goals set in management should ideally be SMART - the A in SMART is 'achievable'. Theres is no point setting goals to put pressure on the team when the goal us not achievable. It makes the team feel like failures and makes the manager look stupid.

    Game dev is just like any creative endeavour- you hire people that know what they are doing, have a realistic plan and a well designed management team and delegation structure. Its not kung fu, its not zen, its pretty mechanical.

    CIG made mistakes in not having a realistic plan, a disfunctional delegation structure where only The Man From Del Monte can make decisions, and having both the visionary and the delivery lead as the same person, eliminating common sense challenge and sense checking.

    The result is a disaster spiral project where a team fails utterly to meet objectives. They have wasted so much money.

    If you look at how much they have spent and what they have to show for it with a critical eye, it looks very bad.

    CR isnt the Messiah, hes a very naughty boy.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    rodarin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    rodarin said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    People assume the figures are real. NO ONE knows if they are or not.
    Incorrect.

    "Guiness Book of Records" verifies world records before printing it.


    Have fun
    dude just stop it, the Guiness number was from YEARS ago. And it was like 40 million and at the time Roberts was claiming 55 million. SO as with everything else SC related the facts get lost in the story telling.

    I havenyt bought one of those books since grade school but like I said somewhere else has that record been updated? Because if they are still raising that money then obviously they are ressetting the record every milestone right?

    So I really dont know what the Guiness number is but it more than likely also includes money NOT raised from the actual kickstarter but also from ship sales EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR donations made where ships were given as perks.

    I just know that when the whole Guiness nonsense was going on their figure was around 40 million.
    I guess the question is this:

    How likely do you think it is that Chris Roberts is just really bad a time estimation? full stop. no hidden agenda, no master mind man in the high castle conspiracy, just simply bad at it.

    His actual track record would say EXTREMELY likely. He made a single game and even then he wasnt THE man. He was fired or replaced or whatever semantics you want to use the last few projects he did including independent ones. And until SC came around he hadnt sniffed the inside of a video game development room in over a decade.

    So thanks for making my point for me I guess.

    I'd be interested in knowing what the single game was that he made. What was it? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2016
    Im guessing he is not listening to his project managers. There must be dedicated staff at CIG whise job it is to forecast a reasonably accurate plan, so they can ensure people and funding are in place for critical tasks. I find it hard to believe they would have said 'yeah Chris, 3.0 will be ready by 19th Dec - go and announce it'. Im guessing they probably shat the bed when he said that.

    All goals set in management should ideally be SMART - the A in SMART is 'achievable'. Theres is no point setting goals to put pressure on the team when the goal us not achievable. It makes the team feel like failures and makes the manager look stupid.

    Game dev is just like any creative endeavour- you hire people that know what they are doing, have a realistic plan and a well designed management team and delegation structure. Its not kung fu, its not zen, its pretty mechanical.

    CIG made mistakes in not having a realistic plan, a disfunctional delegation structure where only The Man From Del Monte can make decisions, and having both the visionary and the delivery lead as the same person, eliminating common sense challenge and sense checking.

    The result is a disaster spiral project where a team fails utterly to meet objectives. They have wasted so much money.

    If you look at how much they have spent and what they have to show for it with a critical eye, it looks very bad.

    CR isnt the Messiah, hes a very naughty boy.
    I have seen the problem I am about to describe happen on multiple projects I have been on. I can say in my experience its not common but it happens enough.

    Stake holder: 'let us know what your estimates are'
    Project manager:'here are our estimates'
    Stake Holder: 'I think we can get it done in less time'
    Project manager: (goes back and makes the numbers match the desired expectations)

    In fact I have seen a Project manager hired with desired dates already created and his job was to find a way to stuff all the work to make it happen. That is not project management

    I suspect that is what happened. its not intentional on the stateholders part its just clouded vision of reality

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    Yep... the old cliched triangle of time, cost and quality is something many stakeholders dont want to know about. You can generally have 2 of those and the third is where the pain lies. Pick any 2!
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Yep... the old cliched triangle of time, cost and quality is something many stakeholders dont want to know about. You can generally have 2 of those and the third is where the pain lies. Pick any 2!
    yeah as a developer I try to keep myself from saying 'I think its ready' because some take that an run with it and before you know it its being use in production before I tested it.

    rare...but it has happened at least once I can recall.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Im guessing he is not listening to his project managers. There must be dedicated staff at CIG whise job it is to forecast a reasonably accurate plan, so they can ensure people and funding are in place for critical tasks.
    I wouldn't place bets on that.

    Small and large companies with more complex product lines build quality products on-time and within budget all the time. The fact that such a high percentage of game developers can't seem to do that should be a strong indicator that they probably don't employ any of those roles.

    I would not be surprised to learn that many game companies are nothing more than a house of cards...one legal or financial "blip" could bring them to their knees.

    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

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