Thing is, I don't see how permadeath would add much of anything interesting to gameplay, and I see all the things that would have to be done to accommodate it(rapid/no advancement, easy/quick to replace gear, easy mobs, etc.) as being detrimental to any MMO.
In short, you have to dilute the meaning of permadeath in order to get people to accept it... by diluting gameplay. All for a feature that might have no effect on your gameplay, whatsoever. You might not even be aware it exists. And if/when you do have to deal with it, it will basically be a negative experience.
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
Maybe the content would have to be different then for you to accept a perma death?
I stand in the same boat, I hate replaying the same crap over and over which is why I cannot play POE on more than one character until new content comes out.
But what if the content wasn't linear, and there was still a form of progression tied to the account not just the character. I don't know how it could be done but if progression wasn't level based, and there was places to go that didn't require other content to be completed, I think it could be pretty fun. Although at that point it's just a perma death MMO adventure game more than an RPG.
COE is promising to deliver character death with a means to retain progression which I'm watching out for but remain skeptical.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
Maybe the content would have to be different then for you to accept a perma death?
I stand in the same boat, I hate replaying the same crap over and over which is why I cannot play POE on more than one character until new content comes out.
But what if the content wasn't linear, and there was still a form of progression tied to the account not just the character. I don't know how it could be done but if progression wasn't level based, and there was places to go that didn't require other content to be completed, I think it could be pretty fun. Although at that point it's just a perma death MMO adventure game more than an RPG.
COE is promising to deliver character death with a means to retain progression which I'm watching out for but remain skeptical.
When I think about all the systems issues MMOs have or systems they have left out, the fact my avatar does not permanently die is not going to make the top of the list. If they don't do something really interesting with this what is the point?
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
It's interesting you mention Darkest Dungeon as that was my thought when I wrote that.
I would enter encounters, lose a few or just wipe and then do it better the next time. Finally finished the Varon boss in the Crimson Court last night.
Not only did I lose people the first time I encountered him but I also lost trinkets.
God I love that game.
So that's the thing, there's a sting but it's not impossible to bounce back.
and that is for you, I hardly find games nowadays hard anyway, but even so I don't like permadeath games, like I said before in single player games its ok you choose if you want to or not, if you don't reload the last save
and again that is a niche game, don't matter how much you try to spin this tale,people who don't like it will not play it, and funny enough people who want to play perma death can do so even when the game have no feature of this, just delete the char/ start a new game again after a death, there perma death for you
Whoa, a bit intense.
Yes, that's right, it is for me. Title of the thread is "what would make perma-death work for you".
I read your response as if you are scared someone is going to make you play a perma-death game. They're not.
Also, if you think your last sentence has any merit, it doesn't. People play multi-player games for a shared experience.
That experience is diluted when there are separate rules for all the players on the board.
I'll end with the idea that "niche" is interesting, niche is different". I'm all for interesting and different because otherwise we get the same stuff over and over again, just repackaged. It's ok to have different things. The world doesn't have to be homogenized.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I played a permadeath in HC mode in Diablo 3. My toon died because of sever lag which was not my fault. The forums were flooded with complaints. Despite all the protest, my character and many others were never given life again by the server gods. My terms for permadeath would be:
1. Any issue which impacts many players due to game issue should not suffer permadeath
2. Items of permadeath character go into special place which can not be accessed until new toon is made and hits max level.
3. Game does have issue where death could occur due to being in an unavoidable area. Ex - You are level 20 and in order to get to your needed destination, you need to go through level 45 adversaries.
These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are/would be others.
and thats just it...There are things outside of our control that make permadeath too devastating.
I played a permadeath in HC mode in Diablo 3. My toon died because of sever lag which was not my fault. The forums were flooded with complaints. Despite all the protest, my character and many others were never given life again by the server gods. My terms for permadeath would be:
1. Any issue which impacts many players due to game issue should not suffer permadeath
2. Items of permadeath character go into special place which can not be accessed until new toon is made and hits max level.
3. Game does have issue where death could occur due to being in an unavoidable area. Ex - You are level 20 and in order to get to your needed destination, you need to go through level 45 adversaries.
These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are/would be others.
and thats just it...There are things outside of our control that make permadeath too devastating.
Again, the character would have to be viewed as disposable.
Permadeath works fine in pen and paper RPGs (well, a few of them have ressurectionn but the death penalty is usually 1 con less so you only could be rezzed 3-18 times and you become worse every time) but those games have far less combat focus then the average MMO.
In an 8 hour PnP session you usually get a couple of fights, sometimes none and sometimes a bit more. In 8 hours of MMO play you get enough combat so it is hard to count.
Also, unless the party wipes you usually make a new character that has the XP of the lowest player in the group or a level below what you were. You can't have lvl 1 characters running around in a high level campaign, they would more or less just be torchbearers.
That isn't true for games with low powergaps and little gear focus, a new Shadowrun player is less good then a vet but you could mix them up and still have everyone contribute to the party.
My point is that if you want permadeath in a MMO it need to be closer to a pen and paper RPG then Wow. Also, you need a good connection without any lag spikes to even bother playing.
I think it actually is possible to make a successful perma death MMO but you need more focusing on roleplaying and less on combat for it to work and you need mechanics that doesn't mean that you can't play with your friends if you die while they survive (a low powergap for instance).
Also, I don'ty think you could have Wow level of gear focus in a perma death game. You certainly can have some but more like D&D then most MMOs.
Another aspect to consider is PvP. I am not sure you could implement that well together with permadeath, a single small guild of griefers that zerge people could kill your entire playerbase. Duelling (to first blood, yielding and death) would work as well as arenas and jousting but open world PvP would be incredible hard to implement unless you want 500 players worldwide.
One way to do it is to make it so that you can reach full power on a new character fast. Not "fast relative to most MMORPGs", but something like 10 minutes. That way, a death wouldn't be devastating.
Alternatively, you could have a game where you naturally have a lot of characters. That way, losing one character out of many isn't devastating. It would have to be a case where all of your characters naturally level if the game has any concept of it, not one where if you play a lot of alts, they all level up far more slowly than if you were to focus on a main.
I think in that case it would be better to set your XP to the account then 10 minutes of leveling up. That means you still could have slow leveling and zones set to different power ranges while still making death less devestating.
You could add a XP penalty if you want to and don't think the loss of gear would be enough.
Another advantage of that system is that you can make alts without being forced to replay the entire game.
I'm playing Path of Exile this new season (started june 1st)
1) First character died at lvl 56 and 15 hours of game time (hubris) 2) second character died at lvl 48 and 6.5 hours of game time (got wrecked legitimately) 3) third character died at lvl 46 and 5 hours of game time (hubris)
and to me they are devastating only in that it is a loss of time. But then again, the game isn't fun if I can die. Last night when I died I slammed my fist on my desk as I was pissed. I'm still pissed about it this morning.
For now, I have 25 hours in and no characters for this season lol. Permadeath is like playing poker with money vs playing poker without money. I cannot play poker without money on it. It just becomes completely meaningless. Same with Path of Exile. If I can't die, then there's no challenge, and no anything. The challenge for me in PoE is to stay alive. It is easier with some builds as opposed to others.
I am going to try one more character in Path of Exile this season. If I die, I'm done for the season. But I may try to play an MMO with permadeath. I tried before in WoW and kept deleting my character at around lvl 9 or 10. But it is something that I would play. If some company just makes one server with HC mode (no PvP). I'd play it, even if it was as shitty as Bless.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Permadeath only works for ARPGs if you like to play on hardcore mode. I always play Diablo 2 and PoE on hardcore.
No. Take EVE. It is a game about building ships, and you play with ship, and in PvP you lose your ships - character and gear both. Still some of your progression stays as skills. It works.
No, permadeath in EVE would be you lose everything. You'd have to restart with no skills.
If ARPG's played like EVE does, then when you die, you'd lose all your gear and be a naked character with your level and sp still intact.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
No, permadeath in EVE would be you lose everything. You'd have to restart with no skills.
If ARPG's played like EVE does, then when you die, you'd lose all your gear and be a naked character with your level and sp still intact.
Not neccesarily. If you have an accountwide kind of experience and a character dies for instance that character would still be gone even if your new (and other) characters would keep the XP. It is still permadeath but it is one that would be easier to stomach for most players.
You could see Eve as doing something similar to that (but you wouldn't be naked, just having standard gear on you).
There are different kinds of permadeath and I think Eve is more on the right track then anything else when it comes to MMOs.
You could go further and skip experience points and instead go for something like EQs AAs for progression on an accountwise scale, that would mean you would get rid of the classic killing 10 rats in the moat grinding as well.
I actually think account wide XP is something we will see in many MMOs in the future, permadeath or no. With that you could slow down leveling a lot without having the altoholics cry and it means you don't have to repeat the same boring zones over and over.
But is that "parma-death", or "kinda sorta like perma-death?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
On an rp level it's permadeath unless you conjure a plot in your mind and create a new character but according to your plot it's the same character with a twist and spend those account wide parma-points on the new character. lol
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
If we're talking about single player games, none of the above, but there are some games that permadeath with no reloads I find ok. Not many, but some. Basically time wasting throw away games that have no investment and you don't care about at all.
If we're talking multiplayer, especially MMOs, NONE. Playing a game, a game with a large investment factor at that, a game that may very well have other PCs that can grief me rather than my own mistakes to cause my death isn't acceptable or fun, so NO. If I'm also paying a subscription fee as well, it becomes a major OHNYFAH!
I play games so I can have fun, not to be frustrated and forced to start, and especially not to be screwed over by some insolent twit that just wants to wreck other peoples enjoyment of said game.
I would accept permadeath in an mmorpg if the game had a mild power-gap between a beginner and a veteran and if my old character could leave items for the new character to use in a bank or some similar stash.
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
I would only consider EVE to be a permadeath system if you lost all your skillpoints as well. EVE does an awesome job in addressing death in their game. Instead of some mumbo jumbo about "The gods decided it wasn't your time yet" after your 5000th death, EVE addresses the fact you keep coming back head on and makes it the central pillar of EVE lore.
But essentially they create amazing lore backed reasons you keep coming back to life instead of implementing permadeath which requires no explanation.
Skillpoints are a part of your character and not it's possessions. If I walked up to you, took everything you had on you, and left you there standing there in your birthday suit would I have killed you?
Skillpoints are a part of your character and not it's possessions. If I walked up to you, took everything you had on you, and left you there standing there in your birthday suit would I have killed you?
Permadeath = Character Death that is permanent.
In EVE you play with ships.
You have a character and gear like most other MMOs. Unlike most other MMOs you lose them if they are destroyed but take 2 identical ships one with someone who has the minimum requirements to fly it, and one who has maxed all relevant skills, and see who wins in a 1v1.
But is that "parma-death", or "kinda sorta like perma-death?"
Perma death means that if your character "Willie the mouse" dies he is gone. It does not mean your account bound bank gets emptied or how playing through a lot of the game will affect the next character you create.
Let's face it, MMOs are suppose to be games players will play a long time and people will only accept starting from scratch so many times before quitting.
OPs question is what is needed for us to accept a permadeath MMO and I think some kind of accountbound progression is what is needed for most people.
It will still feel terrible when Willie beats the dust, at least for most of us but I think most can accept that. Spending months to level up a character each time you die is too much for anyone except some super hardcore players (and it is easy to impllement a hardcore server for those players).
Skillpoints are a part of your character and not it's possessions. If I walked up to you, took everything you had on you, and left you there standing there in your birthday suit would I have killed you?
Permadeath = Character Death that is permanent.
If you killed me I couldn't just make a new toon, it would be game over so with that thinking permadeath would also mean you can't make a new toon at all.
And we are nowadays sharing a lot more between our characters then in the early games, most games have a shared bank for instance now. In GW2 you share yoru mastery point so a lvl 1 character will have access to the mounts you have unlocked as well as other mastery abilities.
Account wide experience points is probably the next logical step to that, perma death or not.
If you want a game where everything is wiped clean whenever you die that would include all money and gear as well and for that to work for more then a couple of players you would need a system with very limited progression if any progression at all and that would certainly hurt the RPG part of the game.
Anyways, I just don't see the "start over from scratch" idea working for that kind of game, it does work to some degree in a game like Diablo but even there the game wouldn't have become popular if that was the only way to play it.
I guess that with a low enough powergap you could at least get something semi popular, particularly in the right kind of game. If for instance the game was more about court intrgues and not so much about combat but with assassinations occuring now and then you could make it work.
For a standard fantasy dungeon hack MMORPG game I just don't see it working at all besides for a far smaller fanbase then games like DFO and MO.
Depends on the game. I mean.. Fortnight is technically perma death.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think it's fairly well understood by people that permadeath = your character not coming back after death. Whether or not there are other mechanics that make that less significant, or whether there are mechanics that make something short of permadeath more significant that's how most people understand it. So other uses of the phrase seem useless.
Well, yes, but, I suppose even if the Character Dies, and can't come back, ergo Fortnight, where you get 1 life per arena, all progress is account bound. So while dying in a match is a perma death, it does not in effect set you back, it simply stops your progress in that match.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Skillpoints are a part of your character and not it's possessions. If I walked up to you, took everything you had on you, and left you there standing there in your birthday suit would I have killed you?
Permadeath = Character Death that is permanent.
In EVE you play with ships.
You have a character and gear like most other MMOs. Unlike most other MMOs you lose them if they are destroyed but take 2 identical ships one with someone who has the minimum requirements to fly it, and one who has maxed all relevant skills, and see who wins in a 1v1.
Actually....your character is your current clone.
You can upgrade it with expensive implants that can't be removed.
If you get podded your clone basically "dies", all implants are lost and you "start over."
So it is a perma death of sorts, while allowing a player to retain most of their progression.
Used to be a player could lose skill points if they didn't have the proper clone "insurance" but they removed that mechanic some years ago as players really hated it.
Also used to be if you were killed in a T3 cruiser you could lose skill points, not sure if thats still true.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think it's fairly well understood by people that permadeath = your character not coming back after death. Whether or not there are other mechanics that make that less significant, or whether there are mechanics that make something short of permadeath more significant that's how most people understand it. So other uses of the phrase seem useless.
Since the feature is very rarely used in MMOs I think there is some room for figuring out a actually working system for it.
I think we all agree that it means that if Maeve the druid dies you can't play her anymore and need to go and create a new character. That is pretty clear.
What could be discussed is if playing her for 3 months should impact your account and your next character and I think it must if you want players to stay in your game for months or years, particularly if your game includes PvP.
Comments
In short, you have to dilute the meaning of permadeath in order to get people to accept it... by diluting gameplay. All for a feature that might have no effect on your gameplay, whatsoever. You might not even be aware it exists. And if/when you do have to deal with it, it will basically be a negative experience.
It's a lose/lose, IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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In an 8 hour PnP session you usually get a couple of fights, sometimes none and sometimes a bit more. In 8 hours of MMO play you get enough combat so it is hard to count.
Also, unless the party wipes you usually make a new character that has the XP of the lowest player in the group or a level below what you were. You can't have lvl 1 characters running around in a high level campaign, they would more or less just be torchbearers.
That isn't true for games with low powergaps and little gear focus, a new Shadowrun player is less good then a vet but you could mix them up and still have everyone contribute to the party.
My point is that if you want permadeath in a MMO it need to be closer to a pen and paper RPG then Wow. Also, you need a good connection without any lag spikes to even bother playing.
I think it actually is possible to make a successful perma death MMO but you need more focusing on roleplaying and less on combat for it to work and you need mechanics that doesn't mean that you can't play with your friends if you die while they survive (a low powergap for instance).
Also, I don'ty think you could have Wow level of gear focus in a perma death game. You certainly can have some but more like D&D then most MMOs.
Another aspect to consider is PvP. I am not sure you could implement that well together with permadeath, a single small guild of griefers that zerge people could kill your entire playerbase. Duelling (to first blood, yielding and death) would work as well as arenas and jousting but open world PvP would be incredible hard to implement unless you want 500 players worldwide.
You could add a XP penalty if you want to and don't think the loss of gear would be enough.
Another advantage of that system is that you can make alts without being forced to replay the entire game.
I'm playing Path of Exile this new season (started june 1st)
1) First character died at lvl 56 and 15 hours of game time (hubris)
2) second character died at lvl 48 and 6.5 hours of game time (got wrecked legitimately)
3) third character died at lvl 46 and 5 hours of game time (hubris)
and to me they are devastating only in that it is a loss of time. But then again, the game isn't fun if I can die. Last night when I died I slammed my fist on my desk as I was pissed. I'm still pissed about it this morning.
For now, I have 25 hours in and no characters for this season lol. Permadeath is like playing poker with money vs playing poker without money. I cannot play poker without money on it. It just becomes completely meaningless. Same with Path of Exile. If I can't die, then there's no challenge, and no anything. The challenge for me in PoE is to stay alive. It is easier with some builds as opposed to others.
I am going to try one more character in Path of Exile this season. If I die, I'm done for the season. But I may try to play an MMO with permadeath. I tried before in WoW and kept deleting my character at around lvl 9 or 10. But it is something that I would play. If some company just makes one server with HC mode (no PvP). I'd play it, even if it was as shitty as Bless.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If ARPG's played like EVE does, then when you die, you'd lose all your gear and be a naked character with your level and sp still intact.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
You could see Eve as doing something similar to that (but you wouldn't be naked, just having standard gear on you).
There are different kinds of permadeath and I think Eve is more on the right track then anything else when it comes to MMOs.
You could go further and skip experience points and instead go for something like EQs AAs for progression on an accountwise scale, that would mean you would get rid of the classic killing 10 rats in the moat grinding as well.
I actually think account wide XP is something we will see in many MMOs in the future, permadeath or no. With that you could slow down leveling a lot without having the altoholics cry and it means you don't have to repeat the same boring zones over and over.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If we're talking multiplayer, especially MMOs, NONE.
Playing a game, a game with a large investment factor at that, a game that may very well have other PCs that can grief me rather than my own mistakes to cause my death isn't acceptable or fun, so NO. If I'm also paying a subscription fee as well, it becomes a major OHNYFAH!
I play games so I can have fun, not to be frustrated and forced to start, and especially not to be screwed over by some insolent twit that just wants to wreck other peoples enjoyment of said game.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
But essentially they create amazing lore backed reasons you keep coming back to life instead of implementing permadeath which requires no explanation.
Permadeath = Character Death that is permanent.
Let's face it, MMOs are suppose to be games players will play a long time and people will only accept starting from scratch so many times before quitting.
OPs question is what is needed for us to accept a permadeath MMO and I think some kind of accountbound progression is what is needed for most people.
It will still feel terrible when Willie beats the dust, at least for most of us but I think most can accept that. Spending months to level up a character each time you die is too much for anyone except some super hardcore players (and it is easy to impllement a hardcore server for those players).
If you killed me I couldn't just make a new toon, it would be game over so with that thinking permadeath would also mean you can't make a new toon at all.
And we are nowadays sharing a lot more between our characters then in the early games, most games have a shared bank for instance now. In GW2 you share yoru mastery point so a lvl 1 character will have access to the mounts you have unlocked as well as other mastery abilities.
Account wide experience points is probably the next logical step to that, perma death or not.
If you want a game where everything is wiped clean whenever you die that would include all money and gear as well and for that to work for more then a couple of players you would need a system with very limited progression if any progression at all and that would certainly hurt the RPG part of the game.
Anyways, I just don't see the "start over from scratch" idea working for that kind of game, it does work to some degree in a game like Diablo but even there the game wouldn't have become popular if that was the only way to play it.
I guess that with a low enough powergap you could at least get something semi popular, particularly in the right kind of game. If for instance the game was more about court intrgues and not so much about combat but with assassinations occuring now and then you could make it work.
For a standard fantasy dungeon hack MMORPG game I just don't see it working at all besides for a far smaller fanbase then games like DFO and MO.
You can upgrade it with expensive implants that can't be removed.
If you get podded your clone basically "dies", all implants are lost and you "start over."
So it is a perma death of sorts, while allowing a player to retain most of their progression.
Used to be a player could lose skill points if they didn't have the proper clone "insurance" but they removed that mechanic some years ago as players really hated it.
Also used to be if you were killed in a T3 cruiser you could lose skill points, not sure if thats still true.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I think we all agree that it means that if Maeve the druid dies you can't play her anymore and need to go and create a new character. That is pretty clear.
What could be discussed is if playing her for 3 months should impact your account and your next character and I think it must if you want players to stay in your game for months or years, particularly if your game includes PvP.