What is Blockchain Gaming? Plus More Questions Answered with Infinite Fleet's Samson Mow | MMORPG.c

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What is Blockchain Gaming? Plus More Questions Answered with Infinite Fleet's Samson Mow | MMORPG.com

What is a Blockchain? How will utilizing it affect gamers? Is it the future of MMORPGs or are all Blockchain games a scam? The creator of Infinite Fleet and CEO of the development studio Pixelmatic, Samson Mow, joined us to explain everything that gamers need to know about blockchain gaming, and how the premiere sci-fi MMO Infinite Fleet is so much more than "just a blockchain game".

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Scot

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

Randomuser2020876

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

It's the new way to get around the "sponsored" tag.

Scot

Randomuser2020876 said:

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

It's the new way to get around the "sponsored" tag.

Even I am not that cynical, though I think for balance we need to hear from someone in the industry who does not like where this is going.

Quizzical

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

I thought the interview was worthwhile.  It's largely about, this is how we think that we can use blockchain to slightly improve a game that would otherwise work without blockchain.  It's not a bunch of ridiculous blockchain hype, nor does the person interviewed beg for money.

If you go to the web site of Ember Sword or Axie Infinity, it basically consists of, please give us money because we use blockchain and cryptocurrencies and this is how you can give us money.  The home page of Infinite Fleet does not even mention that, but wants to talk mainly about lore and dev blogs.  In other words, the web site of Infinite Fleet looks like it's for an actual game that is in development, not some get-rich-quick scam.

maskedweasel

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

So on the flip side you're advocating someone who doesn't like or understand blockchain games to try to explain what it is and why companies are starting to invest in using blockchain technology for games?

Tiller

It's just a trend. It may always be around in some form, but it definitely won't be a mainstay for the entire genera or replace how all MMOs are monetized. Just like Audius for content creators or artists (a blockchain platform). It's not going to kill off Soundcloud but just gives a user another platform to share what they produce and monetize it.

Lark3m

Now, normally I could care less about a cinematic trailer but as a long time mecha fan I got curious when I saw something that reminded me of the albion/white base, it really grabbed my attention when I saw the fighter that looked like a transforming ship and they all transformed and I lost my shit. Take my money!!!!!

maskedweasel

Ciccero said:

Quizzical said:

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

I thought the interview was worthwhile.  It's largely about, this is how we think that we can use blockchain to slightly improve a game that would otherwise work without blockchain.  It's not a bunch of ridiculous blockchain hype, nor does the person interviewed beg for money.

If you go to the web site of Ember Sword or Axie Infinity, it basically consists of, please give us money because we use blockchain and cryptocurrencies and this is how you can give us money.  The home page of Infinite Fleet does not even mention that, but wants to talk mainly about lore and dev blogs.  In other words, the web site of Infinite Fleet looks like it's for an actual game that is in development, not some get-rich-quick scam.

You're confused with what is being said and what is posted.

Here, much EASIER analogies:

Asking a kid if toys are good? No. Asking a specific toy manufacturer if HIS toys are good.

Asking a mechanic if this or that car is safe? No. Asking the car maker just how safe their car is.

You do not do an article about how "good" a thing is by asking an endorser. You can ask them ,in a PART, why they feel it is good. You write an article on X. You THEN get input from both sides.

This was a sales pitch. Not an article

Flawed analogies. 

It's not ask a kid if a toy is good, it's asking a kid to explain how the toys work, and how their specific toy works. You really would rather hear a kid with limited understanding of a toy explain what it does instead of the "manufacturer" who knows the inner workings of how it works? 

It's not, "ask a mechanic if a car is safe", it's "ask a mechanic if an upcoming car is safe". A mechanic would have zero knowledge of a future cars reliability or safety. 

Understanding a feature doesn't require input from "both sides" because there are no "sides" to factual information, like the explanation of what blockchain gaming is, or how it works. 

You also don't need "opinions from both sides" when you do an interview... 

Scot

maskedweasel said:

Scot said:

You got a guy totally invested in blockchain gaming to assess the impact it will have on gaming? What next, get a fox in to see what the impact of foxes living in a hen house is?

So on the flip side you're advocating someone who doesn't like or understand blockchain games to try to explain what it is and why companies are starting to invest in using blockchain technology for games?

We can only expect someone like Samson Mow to be "pro", so getting someone in who is "con" as balance is the way to go. Unless you are saying you have to be making a blockchain/cryptocurrency game to understand where this is taking MMOs I see no problems here. I am sure there are developers/gaming journalists out there who understand what cryptocurrency means for gaming without being involved in making one.

bcbully

@Quizzical

Tell the truth you downloaded didnt you 


Booting up right now myself

edit- damnit waiting for rolling alpha selection


@Kyleran you in yet? 

Scot

bcbully said:

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Are you on holidaying with a Nigerian Princess or something?

bcbully

Scot said:

bcbully said:

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Are you on holidaying with a Nigerian Princess or something?

No Scot I stood upright and walked out the cave...

side note I gave my debit card number to an online exchange today too 

Scot

bcbully said:

@Quizzical

Tell the truth you downloaded didnt you 

Booting up right now myself

edit- damnit waiting for rolling alpha selection

@Kyleran you in yet? 

I am interested to see what you make of it and it does seem to be game first and cryptocurrency second, but you are a CC fan so I will bear that in mind. Also you can't play them all, you have recommend three so far I think(?) unless you are spreading your cryptogaming speculation bets.

bcbully

Scot said:

bcbully said:

@Quizzical

Tell the truth you downloaded didnt you 

Booting up right now myself

edit- damnit waiting for rolling alpha selection

@Kyleran you in yet? 

I am interested to see what you make of it and it does seem to be game first and cryptocurrency second, but you are a CC fan so I will bear that in mind. Also you can't play them all, you have recommend three so far I think(?) unless you are spreading your cryptogaming speculation bets.

Check it out for yourself. Download and wait for alpha inv...

Yeah I've played a couple. OxUniverse on Polygon. No stress light music with a lot below the surface. Perfect on days like this where the market looks ugly.



Edit- I speculate on Matic Eth and BTC, farm Crystl and play games

Iselin

Well at least this developer understands that there's a difference between saying "This game is good because it uses blockchains" and "This game is good and yes, it also uses blockchains."

I can have some patience to listen to the second pitch but I'll tune the first one out in nanoseconds.

Still, the bottom line in most of these games with blockchains is the casual acceptance that buying and selling game items for $ or $ equivalent digital currency is a good and normal thing we all want to do.

In other words you have to first accept that cash transactions are good for games and then kind of rebel against that and say "Hey, why should the developers be the only ones profiting? I want in on that action!"

The whole thing stripped of it's high tech trapping in most blockchain games is an implicit acceptance that P2W is good. 

The game described in this article seems to be an exception because of one key difference: 

"Our players can earn INF by playing the game — we don’t sell INF anywhere, so that’s the only way to acquire it."

This is the first time I have heard of a blockchain game that isn't all about selling its digital currency in the cash shop. So not P2W. That's interesting. A way to acquire some real world value by just playing a game. Without the influx of currency bought in a cash shop I expect the player profits will be pretty low but hey, it's something and without P2W in the mix.

But the bit about "atomic" transactions providing a secure in-game trading model where one player doesn't need to go first? That would have been a very good thing back at the turn of the century when games, Asheron's Call for example, did not yet have secure trading interfaces so someone did have to go first,

These days? Is there any MMO that doesn't have an interface pop-up when 2 players are trading where you first place your item or gold in the interface and lock it in and the other person does the same and then, and only then, can you both click "accept" to confirm the transaction? I mean... "atomic" using blockchain sounds cool and all but this is no different than what exists in all multiplayer AAA games in 2021 to make trades secure.

(Side note: ESO has a wishy washy crowns for gold system where you can "gift" someone with a crown shop item and they can "gift" you back some gold. This is a retro cash for gold scheme where you do need a 3rd party broker because it's otherwise done on trust with one party needing to "go first" That's the only modern multiplayer game trading system I'm aware of that isn't secure including any other 2-player in game transaction in ESO that doesn't involve crowns for gold, which use the standard secure trading interface.)

Edit: Damn I didn't read it carefully enough:

MMORPG: You mentioned that Infinite Fleet won’t be selling INF, players have to earn it in game. Would it be possible for players to sell INF to other players for real money? Do you see that as being a common practice?

Mow: INF is portable, meaning players can hold it in their own wallet outside the game, move it around freely, and do with it whatever they want. We expect that players will primarily use INF to buy ships and items from other players.

So there it is, the P2W is also in this game regardless of what they "expect"

bcbully

It's honestly really hard for me to understand some perspectives, no matter how eloquent written. 

You play games you enjoy. The things you do in those games are the same for off-chain or on-chain games. 

It seems as if the tech itself is challenging some of your motives for playing. I'm not about to grind a bad game for income. Some might, right? we've seen it for years ie gold farmers. More power to them.

A good mmorpg always and forever will be a good mmorpg.  A bad money grab is a bad money grab.



Crypto making a game bad is like saying ransomware attacks are because of Bitcoin.

 

olepi

What I got out of it is that you can sell your game items for real money.  Or buy them from someone else.

Play the game to make INF, and then sell the INF for money.

Sounds like bot farmer heaven.

Scot

Iselin said:

These days? Is there any MMO that doesn't have an interface pop-up when 2 players are trading where you first place your item or gold in the interface and lock it in and the other person does the same and then, and only then, can you both click "accept" to confirm the transaction? I mean... "atomic" using blockchain sounds cool and all but this is no different than what exists in all multiplayer AAA games in 2021 to make trades secure.

That made me laugh too, reinventing the wheel shows how bog standard blockchain is for games, it offers nothing outside of transactions. I note that at least he did not go on about all the amazing things blockchain will bring to gaming like evolving items that gain abilities, have a unique name and history of ownership. This was pie in the sky wishful thinking that has never seen the light of day.

maskedweasel

Iselin said:

Edit: Damn I didn't read it carefully enough:

MMORPG: You mentioned that Infinite Fleet won’t be selling INF, players have to earn it in game. Would it be possible for players to sell INF to other players for real money? Do you see that as being a common practice?

Mow: INF is portable, meaning players can hold it in their own wallet outside the game, move it around freely, and do with it whatever they want. We expect that players will primarily use INF to buy ships and items from other players.

So there it is, the P2W is also in this game regardless of what they "expect"

I think that's interesting. Is it pay to win? You'd have to buy the currency from other players, right? That means players will need to sell it. 

Maybe there will be an INF economy where some players are farming currency just to sell it, but who knows how that will go. When it's a competitive economy where so many players are selling INF, wouldn't that just drive down the price of the currency? It's one thing if the company is selling currency for a set price, but if it's up to the players to decide... I don't think we've ever seen that kind of market before. 

Gold sellers usually set their prices, but, most games consider that against their terms of service, so the few gold seller services that do those things don't have competition from everyone else in the game, that might also be interested in selling INF.

saker

“What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism in this room? There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism. You can smell it. It smells like death."
(I'm paraphrasing)

Iselin

maskedweasel said:

Iselin said:

Edit: Damn I didn't read it carefully enough:

MMORPG: You mentioned that Infinite Fleet won’t be selling INF, players have to earn it in game. Would it be possible for players to sell INF to other players for real money? Do you see that as being a common practice?

Mow: INF is portable, meaning players can hold it in their own wallet outside the game, move it around freely, and do with it whatever they want. We expect that players will primarily use INF to buy ships and items from other players.

So there it is, the P2W is also in this game regardless of what they "expect"

I think that's interesting. Is it pay to win? You'd have to buy the currency from other players, right? That means players will need to sell it. 

Maybe there will be an INF economy where some players are farming currency just to sell it, but who knows how that will go. When it's a competitive economy where so many players are selling INF, wouldn't that just drive down the price of the currency? It's one thing if the company is selling currency for a set price, but if it's up to the players to decide... I don't think we've ever seen that kind of market before. 

Gold sellers usually set their prices, but, most games consider that against their terms of service, so the few gold seller services that do those things don't have competition from everyone else in the game, that might also be interested in selling INF.

Yeah. P2W might not be the proper term for gold selling although it's the oldest tried and true way to buy your way into power in a game dating back to the first gen MMOs. This is like a free for all, legit gold selling market.

Iselin

saker said:

“What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism in this room? There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism. You can smell it. It smells like death."
(I'm paraphrasing)

One of my favorite subreddits:  https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/new/

Iselin

bcbully said:

You play games you enjoy. The things you do in those games are the same for off-chain or on-chain games. 

... I'm not about to grind a bad game for income. 

 

Good to hear. You had me worried for a while there.

I'll postpone the intervention for now.

laserit

And here I am grooving on Kenshi


Edit:

I'm sure block chain technology has many positive aspects. But when it comes to gaming and marketing using block chain, the big angle is going to be "Make Money While You Game"

There's going to be a lot of hot running computers. At least up here in the winter we can use the heat

Spiider

99% of bc games are like 99% of coins. Scams done by greedy sociopaths who want to make a quick buck off the gullible public.