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What is Blockchain Gaming? Plus More Questions Answered with Infinite Fleet's Samson Mow | MMORPG.c

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Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,445
    edited July 2021
    Scot said:
    See, and that's where you're kind of wrong here. Another feature of NFT's is that, when you buy it, even from a third party, the original party gets a small piece of whatever it sold for. 

    https://creatoreconomy.so/p/guide-to-nfts-for-creators

    So in theory, there's no reason for them to change how they sell their NFT ships, because they would technically make money off of every single trade, in addition to every single ship sold. I don't know if that's how it works for infinite fleet, but that's how nfts work as a whole. So there's no reason for them to skew what they sell, when every real money transaction puts money in their pocket. 

    In regular MMOs of course they change what they sell regularly, they have to. Eventually cash shops needed loot boxes, gambling mechanics and new pay to win items because when revenue dipped, they didn't have consistent money coming in. With these kinds of games, when you make money, they also make money. It's a solid concept. 

    Nothing you have said means they won't allow their cryptocurrency to be bought at a later date. The gainsayers here have been accused of naivety, what you have said here seems naïve to me. I can totally accept the solidness of the monetary model, but you seem to think because of that they won't want to make as much money as they can. Where have you been these last twenty years, making more and more and more is all MMOs do. You are going to get/already have the loot boxes and gambling mechanics in blockchain MMOs, in fact Bcbully told us that you can use Dapp to check rates. Kerching! is the only sound these games will want to hear.
    They aren't going to sell their cryptocurrency (infinite fleet) because they said already that they won't be selling it, it's only earnable in game. That doesn't mean other players can't sell it. In fact, I would bet many players will sell it, but the currency itself is limited. 

    Because of the limitation of currency, this isn't a situation where they can just "print more money" if they want.  All games handle this in different ways, but to say that it's naïve because all normal MMOs have done it so blockchain games will too is jumping the gun. 

    The facts are, you can't point to a single blockchain game that has done drastically changed or added something to their monetization system apart from their initial plans. There's a reason for that. Some do sell currency. Some do sell land. Some do sell items. But just because some do, and infinite fleet says they don't doesn't mean they are lying. In fact, their game is based around an economy built on earning the currency, so the developers selling it would be an immediate end to the game. There's a fixed supply, so giving players the option to buy tons of it from the onset would be a failure. 
    I never said they would try to print money, I don't know where you got that from. Indeed I see that as detrimental to the blockchain model which is built on trust in the cryptocurrency as much as anything else. Selling the cryptocurrency is not the same as "printing money" as the company would get something in return for that, such as other cc's. What happens there depends on what they intend to do with the cryptocurrency long term and for some reason beyond me you think that is set in amber because they said so.

    I was told by Bcbully ((BlockChainBully as I now think of him :) )) that dapp is used in some way to confirm the likes of loot box drop rates in blockchain games, if that's not true then the transparency he was lauding in these games only extends as far as transactions, it goes no further.

    I accept your description of how Infinite Fleet is working, I am not sure why you keep going back to that, it does not effect what I am saying. MMOs seek to add to they revenue every which way, I am not saying they will all sell land, ships, currency, items, loot boxes etc. But they will all start to drift that way, I can see that players, indeed the company may react against certain of these revenue methods and see them as devaluing the cryptocurrency and so decide not to bring them in. My guess would be they would seek to bring in versions of those cash shop revenue methods that fit their games. If they see it working elsewhere they will jump on it, if not steer clear.

    I really don't know these games that well to comment on their individual development, I do know the closest thing we have had to a blockchain MMO that has been long running namely Entropia Universe has loot boxes, that points the way. BC games have not been out long enough to see their direction of travel, but they are not run by altruists so I can only see a similar path to what we have seen before.
    maskedweaselKyleranGdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited July 2021
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    See, and that's where you're kind of wrong here. Another feature of NFT's is that, when you buy it, even from a third party, the original party gets a small piece of whatever it sold for. 

    https://creatoreconomy.so/p/guide-to-nfts-for-creators

    So in theory, there's no reason for them to change how they sell their NFT ships, because they would technically make money off of every single trade, in addition to every single ship sold. I don't know if that's how it works for infinite fleet, but that's how nfts work as a whole. So there's no reason for them to skew what they sell, when every real money transaction puts money in their pocket. 

    In regular MMOs of course they change what they sell regularly, they have to. Eventually cash shops needed loot boxes, gambling mechanics and new pay to win items because when revenue dipped, they didn't have consistent money coming in. With these kinds of games, when you make money, they also make money. It's a solid concept. 

    Nothing you have said means they won't allow their cryptocurrency to be bought at a later date. The gainsayers here have been accused of naivety, what you have said here seems naïve to me. I can totally accept the solidness of the monetary model, but you seem to think because of that they won't want to make as much money as they can. Where have you been these last twenty years, making more and more and more is all MMOs do. You are going to get/already have the loot boxes and gambling mechanics in blockchain MMOs, in fact Bcbully told us that you can use Dapp to check rates. Kerching! is the only sound these games will want to hear.
    They aren't going to sell their cryptocurrency (infinite fleet) because they said already that they won't be selling it, it's only earnable in game. That doesn't mean other players can't sell it. In fact, I would bet many players will sell it, but the currency itself is limited. 

    Because of the limitation of currency, this isn't a situation where they can just "print more money" if they want.  All games handle this in different ways, but to say that it's naïve because all normal MMOs have done it so blockchain games will too is jumping the gun. 

    The facts are, you can't point to a single blockchain game that has done drastically changed or added something to their monetization system apart from their initial plans. There's a reason for that. Some do sell currency. Some do sell land. Some do sell items. But just because some do, and infinite fleet says they don't doesn't mean they are lying. In fact, their game is based around an economy built on earning the currency, so the developers selling it would be an immediate end to the game. There's a fixed supply, so giving players the option to buy tons of it from the onset would be a failure. 
    I never said they would try to print money, I don't know where you got that from. Indeed I see that as detrimental to the blockchain model which is built on trust in the cryptocurrency as much as anything else. Selling the cryptocurrency is not the same as "printing money" as the company would get something in return for that, such as other cc's. What happens there depends on what they intend to do with the cryptocurrency long term and for some reason beyond me you think that is set in amber because they said so.

    I was told by Bcbully ((BlockChainBully as I now think of him :) )) that dapp is used in some way to confirm the likes of loot box drop rates in blockchain games, if that's not true then the transparency he was lauding in these games only extends as far as transactions, it goes no further.

    I accept your description of how Infinite Fleet is working, I am not sure why you keep going back to that, it does not effect what I am saying. MMOs seek to add to they revenue every which way, I am not saying they will all sell land, ships, currency, items, loot boxes etc. But they will all start to drift that way, I can see that players, indeed the company may react against certain of these revenue methods and see them as devaluing the cryptocurrency and so decide not to bring them in. My guess would be they would seek to bring in versions of those cash shop revenue methods that fit their games. If they see it working elsewhere they will jump on it, if not steer clear.

    I really don't know these games that well to comment on their individual development, I do know the closest thing we have had to a blockchain MMO that has been long running namely Entropia Universe has loot boxes, that points the way. BC games have not been out long enough to see their direction of travel, but they are not run by altruists so I can only see a similar path to what we have seen before.
    Scot you sound like Wiz on 98% of his post right now... I swear I'm trying my best to explain and not be mean. It really just seems like youre skimming the first couple of lines then pontificating.

    When I fist got in deep 7 months ago. I thought that Smart Contracts where new. I thought that I was going to shock the world with my amazing ideas. I pontificated to my GF. I soon realized I was years behind. 7 months 18-19 hours a day later. I can confidently say I'm ahead of the general population... lol. 

    Here's a good exercise. go to wikipedia, look up blockchain read click on the links in the articles keep doing it. 


    edit - BlockchainBully has ring to it. a Twitter handle type of ring
    Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,445
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    See, and that's where you're kind of wrong here. Another feature of NFT's is that, when you buy it, even from a third party, the original party gets a small piece of whatever it sold for. 

    https://creatoreconomy.so/p/guide-to-nfts-for-creators

    So in theory, there's no reason for them to change how they sell their NFT ships, because they would technically make money off of every single trade, in addition to every single ship sold. I don't know if that's how it works for infinite fleet, but that's how nfts work as a whole. So there's no reason for them to skew what they sell, when every real money transaction puts money in their pocket. 

    In regular MMOs of course they change what they sell regularly, they have to. Eventually cash shops needed loot boxes, gambling mechanics and new pay to win items because when revenue dipped, they didn't have consistent money coming in. With these kinds of games, when you make money, they also make money. It's a solid concept. 

    Nothing you have said means they won't allow their cryptocurrency to be bought at a later date. The gainsayers here have been accused of naivety, what you have said here seems naïve to me. I can totally accept the solidness of the monetary model, but you seem to think because of that they won't want to make as much money as they can. Where have you been these last twenty years, making more and more and more is all MMOs do. You are going to get/already have the loot boxes and gambling mechanics in blockchain MMOs, in fact Bcbully told us that you can use Dapp to check rates. Kerching! is the only sound these games will want to hear.
    They aren't going to sell their cryptocurrency (infinite fleet) because they said already that they won't be selling it, it's only earnable in game. That doesn't mean other players can't sell it. In fact, I would bet many players will sell it, but the currency itself is limited. 

    Because of the limitation of currency, this isn't a situation where they can just "print more money" if they want.  All games handle this in different ways, but to say that it's naïve because all normal MMOs have done it so blockchain games will too is jumping the gun. 

    The facts are, you can't point to a single blockchain game that has done drastically changed or added something to their monetization system apart from their initial plans. There's a reason for that. Some do sell currency. Some do sell land. Some do sell items. But just because some do, and infinite fleet says they don't doesn't mean they are lying. In fact, their game is based around an economy built on earning the currency, so the developers selling it would be an immediate end to the game. There's a fixed supply, so giving players the option to buy tons of it from the onset would be a failure. 
    I never said they would try to print money, I don't know where you got that from. Indeed I see that as detrimental to the blockchain model which is built on trust in the cryptocurrency as much as anything else. Selling the cryptocurrency is not the same as "printing money" as the company would get something in return for that, such as other cc's. What happens there depends on what they intend to do with the cryptocurrency long term and for some reason beyond me you think that is set in amber because they said so.

    I was told by Bcbully ((BlockChainBully as I now think of him :) )) that dapp is used in some way to confirm the likes of loot box drop rates in blockchain games, if that's not true then the transparency he was lauding in these games only extends as far as transactions, it goes no further.

    I accept your description of how Infinite Fleet is working, I am not sure why you keep going back to that, it does not effect what I am saying. MMOs seek to add to they revenue every which way, I am not saying they will all sell land, ships, currency, items, loot boxes etc. But they will all start to drift that way, I can see that players, indeed the company may react against certain of these revenue methods and see them as devaluing the cryptocurrency and so decide not to bring them in. My guess would be they would seek to bring in versions of those cash shop revenue methods that fit their games. If they see it working elsewhere they will jump on it, if not steer clear.

    I really don't know these games that well to comment on their individual development, I do know the closest thing we have had to a blockchain MMO that has been long running namely Entropia Universe has loot boxes, that points the way. BC games have not been out long enough to see their direction of travel, but they are not run by altruists so I can only see a similar path to what we have seen before.
    Scot you sound like Wiz on 98% of his post right now... I swear I'm trying my best to explain and not be mean. It really just seems like youre skimming the first couple of lines then pontificating.

    When I fist got in deep 7 months ago. I thought that Smart Contracts where new. I thought that I was going to shock the world with my amazing ideas. I pontificated to my GF. I soon realized I was years behind. 7 months 18-19 hours a day later. I can confidently say I'm ahead of the general population... lol. 

    Here's a good exercise. go to wikipedia, look up blockchain read click on the links in the articles keep doing it. 


    edit - BlockchainBully has ring to it. a Twitter handle type of ring
    If you use it I expect a commission. :)
    bcbullyKyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Scot said:

    I never said they would try to print money, I don't know where you got that from. Indeed I see that as detrimental to the blockchain model which is built on trust in the cryptocurrency as much as anything else. Selling the cryptocurrency is not the same as "printing money" as the company would get something in return for that, such as other cc's. What happens there depends on what they intend to do with the cryptocurrency long term and for some reason beyond me you think that is set in amber because they said so.

    I was told by Bcbully ((BlockChainBully as I now think of him :) )) that dapp is used in some way to confirm the likes of loot box drop rates in blockchain games, if that's not true then the transparency he was lauding in these games only extends as far as transactions, it goes no further.

    I accept your description of how Infinite Fleet is working, I am not sure why you keep going back to that, it does not effect what I am saying. MMOs seek to add to they revenue every which way, I am not saying they will all sell land, ships, currency, items, loot boxes etc. But they will all start to drift that way, I can see that players, indeed the company may react against certain of these revenue methods and see them as devaluing the cryptocurrency and so decide not to bring them in. My guess would be they would seek to bring in versions of those cash shop revenue methods that fit their games. If they see it working elsewhere they will jump on it, if not steer clear.

    I really don't know these games that well to comment on their individual development, I do know the closest thing we have had to a blockchain MMO that has been long running namely Entropia Universe has loot boxes, that points the way. BC games have not been out long enough to see their direction of travel, but they are not run by altruists so I can only see a similar path to what we have seen before.
    The reason I mentioned the "printing money" thing is because when you have a fixed amount of currency, you can't really make more. Selling it is a different story, and sure, if you sell a fixed currency, you probably could sell it for more knowing that eventually you'll run out and the rarity drives up the price. But when you have the rarity of currency and you say "well we give out this currency as a reward when you play" turning around and selling it would kill the game. Eventually you would have no rewards left, and, what? You end up having to create another currency or something? I don't even know what happens then. 

    As for the dapp thing, I have no idea to be honest. I don't know of blockchain lootboxes or how they would even work? I guess if there's a lootbox and then it awards and NFT? In that case you probably could look at the blockchain and see how many of what NFT was rewarded, and if there was an app that made it easily readable..  I'm just spitballing here, I have no clue. 

    The thing is, in some ways you're right. Blockchain games are games. Most of them rely on the gimmicks of selling currency, or selling nfts or selling land, with the underlying idea that you can "play to earn" real money. Like with everything else, it's an emerging market and getting in early is likely why early adopters see success. It's hard to say what developers will do in the future. I do believe more games and big companies will go the blockchain route. 

    I don't know much about entropia either, so I'm not sure how that model is different than what other games are doing, but I don't really think that blockchain game makers look at entropia like older mmos looked at WOW. I don't think they're trying to recreate that game. I think they're looking at games like WoW and Runescape and EVE and thinking that blockchain will somehow make it better. Maybe more profitable for them? Maybe give players the feeling of more investment? I don't know, but I don't see many games in development saying "We want to make a better entropia" 
    Scotbcbully



  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,445
    edited July 2021
    Sharne said:
    bcbully said:
    Yeah maybe. I assumed we here could make the leap from blockchain game to blockchian DApp without much slippage... I was wrong.


    What Are Decentralized Applications?

    Decentralized applications (dApps) are digital applications or programs that exist and run on a blockchain or P2P network of computers instead of a single computer, and are outside the purview and control of a single authority.

    @Scot there are many decentralized applications.

    You said " There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game?"

    I answered your question with a yes, by pointing you to a couple decentralized applications on blockchain that show you odds and allow you to even select your odds. It doesnt get more transparent than that.

    You then replied by saying that I told you Dapps allow you to check odds inside of games.... Not sure if any Dapps have ben made with this specific use case (please look up use cases concerning blockchain dapps). That being said someone probably could make a global odds checker across whatever blockchain.

    That being said if a developer so choses to show odds of loot boxes and/or allow the selection of odds within there game it would be no problem at all. Example, the Dapps I previously linked.


    Now to you sir, @sharne pointing to bit torrent in respects to this conversation is pretty odd. I would go as far to say misleading. P2P has nothing to do with this converstion at all unless you consider the videogame developer a peer. 


    Again. There is a major lack of understanding here, where we once posted at the tip of the gaming technology spear.


    inb4 - investipedia?!!! lmao 

    I love you guys, but you can do better than this. /niceOff

    edit - How many multi-paragraph posts do I need (yes you know me I feel the need) to make to attempt to help understanding. DYOR
    My point was just what you highlighted initially, Dapps are centralized apps of any kind using P2P for the transport layer, hence the reference to Bit Torrent, Blockchain is basically the data layer

    Doing a bit of research I can see how blockchain would be useful for anything based around currency, whether that be in game currency or the cryptocurrency of your choice.

    Unless I am mistaken though, blockchain is quite expensive in terms of retrieving the latest data. For example using a traditional database, your only interested (normally) in the latest committed data, my understanding of blockchain is that you get the whole kaboodle, including the full audit log(which in a traditional database equivalent would be the same as getting the latest data and the transaction log pertaining to that data).

    So whilst I can see that it would be useful . for any store or financial transactions, I can't see it replacing the type of data you want quickly on the fly.

    So yeah I can see it being useful to MMO developers but I can't see it completely replacing standard MMO networking models any time soon.

    Is that accurate(ish) or am I mistaken? (please correct me if I'm wrong :))
    I did see mention of the fact that developing a game with blockchain takes more time therefore more money, but I think it will become more widespread than you think, there was a time when we saw cash shops as an Eastern thing which was never going to come here. When it comes to the dapp in some ways is it needed, if you publish rates that is transparency but you do have to trust that the rates are correct, that could be said for any game but I would trust the big boys more there as they have more to lose.
    maskedweasel
  • GrindcoreTHRALLGrindcoreTHRALL Member UncommonPosts: 337
    edited July 2021
    Sharne said:
    Sorry Scot, I wasn't overly clear. I meant expensive in terms of the size of the data you are retrieving / saving rather than the cost, however saying that I read the same too.

    Think of it like this, in a traditional database, a the same row has been updated 1000 times. If you retrieve the data for that row, you only get the data from the last time it was updated, one row.

    My understanding on blockchain (which is limited) would be that you would essentially get  the latest data as per from a traditional database but also a hashed history of all previous transactions, which would make the data more expensive in terms of network performance as essentially you are getting a bigger packet of data.

    That's fine and exactly what you want I would have thought for anything to do with financial transactions, game currency or external (or both) but would be very expensive in terms of performance for say the client trying to get the x,y,z co-ordinates of mob A.

    I could be wrong, I really don't know a great deal about blockchain, aside from what I have read and some of it isn't particularly clear :)

    But if that is the case, it wont be replacing the traditional mmo database transaction any time soon.

    That's not to say it wont be widespread. Every MMO pretty much now has a cash/ in game currency shop, it would be ideal for that but what I think personally is that it won't become the standard database template for mmo's themselves, unless I'm wrong of course, in which case I'm just talking bollocks ;)
    Quite a few of the Block Chain games are based of ETH and ETH has a ton of solutions to current data problems such as Roll Outs, Bundles, and far more than I can understand. Right now block chain games aren't prime for massive adoption. They work well with smaller communities but still many developers are innovating and actually solving these problems before main stream solutions from bigger companies. All in all, I think that with all the proposed solutions, hard work, and interest in block chain gaming, it will only be a matter of time before they are ready for mass adoption.

    Edit : its definitely important to note that as time goes by and new solutions develop, old problems become irrelevant. I have a friend who is a technologist and works with AI that he programs to do trading on crypto. Hes a very smart dude but, like many people, he is stuck in the past and hasn't done much current research about what has changed for block chain gaming. Just a couple months can massively change the technological landscape of data transactions for crypto so, just because its not ready now doesn't mean its going to take years.
    [Deleted User]bcbully
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    ScotGdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited July 2021
    Crypto Games: Playing to Win, Learn and Earn  7/22//21


    https://www.coindesk.com/tv/community-crypto/community-crypto-july-22-2021

    Here you go guys nice vid. I haven't watched, but coindesktv is the PBS (private tho...) of crypto
    Post edited by bcbully on
    [Deleted User]
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited July 2021
    @sharne ;

    Awesome man. Up until like early this year for all practical purposes you would be correct. Earlier this year Polygon became the go to ETH layer 2 scaling solution.

     In short transaction are recorded on layer 2 then verified on ETH base layer. Transaction cost around .0002 cents.

    Oh and they can handle around 5k transactions per second.
    Post edited by bcbully on
    [Deleted User]
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited July 2021
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    GrindcoreTHRALLSensai
  • GrindcoreTHRALLGrindcoreTHRALL Member UncommonPosts: 337
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    All true and valid points. We shall see how bad Diablo 2 Resurrected is even when they have the foresight of the problems to come. 
    bcbully
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    Why would I want to make rare Legendary items that can never be recreated? That sounds horrible, most MUDs have a quest token system to modify items that you can use to make items more powerful.

    What would ever be the point to the player? If they have longsword ID 12371245 or some other one they are identical and the only reason you would need this is to track items to RMT them. Zero value.

    Dupes are pretty rare and you can combat it with the item id and in game systems that will detect and destroy copied items. There are already ways to fight this. I will give you this one though if it can stop it altogether, super.

    The rest is all monetization BS I don't want. The MUD has an auction system, bank system, and economy already. In fact by adding this you would be encroaching on the original intended design for the games economy. If not just straight up preying upon it to try and make a buck.

    This is all stuff that could have already been done or pointless and useless as far as providing any meaningful gameplay improvements other than for RMT purposes.
    GdemamiSensai

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    Why would I want to make rare Legendary items that can never be recreated? That sounds horrible, most MUDs have a quest token system to modify items that you can use to make items more powerful.

    What would ever be the point to the player? If they have longsword ID 12371245 or some other one they are identical and the only reason you would need this is to track items to RMT them. Zero value.

    Dupes are pretty rare and you can combat it with the item id and in game systems that will detect and destroy copied items. There are already ways to fight this. I will give you this one though if it can stop it altogether, super.

    The rest is all monetization BS I don't want. The MUD has an auction system, bank system, and economy already. In fact by adding this you would be encroaching on the original intended design for the games economy. If not just straight up preying upon it to try and make a buck.

    This is all stuff that could have already been done or pointless and useless as far as providing any meaningful gameplay improvements other than for RMT purposes.
    Ok
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    Why would I want to make rare Legendary items that can never be recreated? That sounds horrible, most MUDs have a quest token system to modify items that you can use to make items more powerful.

    What would ever be the point to the player? If they have longsword ID 12371245 or some other one they are identical and the only reason you would need this is to track items to RMT them. Zero value.

    Dupes are pretty rare and you can combat it with the item id and in game systems that will detect and destroy copied items. There are already ways to fight this. I will give you this one though if it can stop it altogether, super.

    The rest is all monetization BS I don't want. The MUD has an auction system, bank system, and economy already. In fact by adding this you would be encroaching on the original intended design for the games economy. If not just straight up preying upon it to try and make a buck.

    This is all stuff that could have already been done or pointless and useless as far as providing any meaningful gameplay improvements other than for RMT purposes.
    Ok
    Probably not going to see a lot of blockchain MUDs.
    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,063
    BlockChainBully would make a great handle for a block chain game streamer.

    I'd imagine you'd get quite a draw as you played your way thru these new games, making and losing fortunes buying and selling NFTs and the like.

    Play it right you might end up with your own show on Netflix or something.
    ScotbcbullyGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916


    That video explains a lot of the block chain concepts.

    I must say I hate all of it.

    From the price tag on every item bit to the limited quantity, fake scarcity, FOMO, cash shop cancer it is. Even when it has a cool concept like the "multiverse" where you can take items to another game because they are saved "outside" the game in the blockchain with contracts. It's all horsecrap that doesn't matter like owning axes for a game that isn't even released.

    Could just call it crypto gaming or bitcoin gaming. 

    This is really what you think the wave of the future next best thing is? Putting price tags on everything in every game? So you can own all of it in a giant digital wallet with an etherium address.

    You can call me any name in the book. I'm avoiding this crap like the plague. This and NFT's can get some cement shoes and meet at the bottom of the ocean.



    ScotKyleranGdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • GrindcoreTHRALLGrindcoreTHRALL Member UncommonPosts: 337
    edited July 2021
    Nilden said:


    That video explains a lot of the block chain concepts.

    I must say I hate all of it.

    From the price tag on every item bit to the limited quantity, fake scarcity, FOMO, cash shop cancer it is. Even when it has a cool concept like the "multiverse" where you can take items to another game because they are saved "outside" the game in the blockchain with contracts. It's all horsecrap that doesn't matter like owning axes for a game that isn't even released.

    Could just call it crypto gaming or bitcoin gaming. 

    This is really what you think the wave of the future next best thing is? Putting price tags on everything in every game? So you can own all of it in a giant digital wallet with an etherium address.

    You can call me any name in the book. I'm avoiding this crap like the plague. This and NFT's can get some cement shoes and meet at the bottom of the ocean.



    Some games start with limited NFTs to never be sold again and the  players Mint new NFTs with resources your earn as you play. Its not fake scarcity. Also there will be ways to augment NFTs in Block chain RPGs like Mirandus, or atleast ways to Mint new NFTs. You can nominalize the the  marketing aspect but I think its pretty revolutionary in the aspect where your time in game is also valuable, objectively and not as arbitrary or vague like off chain games where its mostly disavowed to sell your in game currency. 
    [Deleted User]
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,445
    edited July 2021
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    We have been over this before Bcbully, how many blockchain games have ever implemented one of these features? If a game had several it would be a major change in the way MMOs can be made, but it is hard to find one with any of these innovations.
    Gdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    We have been over this before Bcbully, how many blockchain games have ever implemented one of these features? If a game had several it would be a major change in the way MMOs can be made, but it is hard to find one with any of these innovations.
    It wasn't truly possible to make a mmorpg that moves at the pace we are used to until earlier this year. it's 1999 all over again. Transaction speeds (Time taken to read and write to the chain) have increased 500x. Transaction cost have come down from 5 bucks to 0002 of a penny.

     Just like back then we had to go beyond 56k bps modems and dail-up. That just happened. Stay tuned ;)

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    We have been over this before Bcbully, how many blockchain games have ever implemented one of these features? If a game had several it would be a major change in the way MMOs can be made, but it is hard to find one with any of these innovations.
    It wasn't truly possible to make a mmorpg that moves at the pace we are used to until earlier this year. it's 1999 all over again. Transaction speeds (Time taken to read and write to the chain) have increased 500x. Transaction cost have come down from 5 bucks to 0002 of a penny.

     Just like back then we had to go beyond 56k bps modems and dail-up. That just happened. Stay tuned ;)

    Stay tuned for what? The most invasive Pay 2 Win cash shop system ever? Oh boy. Edge of my seat.
    GdemamiScot

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    We have been over this before Bcbully, how many blockchain games have ever implemented one of these features? If a game had several it would be a major change in the way MMOs can be made, but it is hard to find one with any of these innovations.
    It wasn't truly possible to make a mmorpg that moves at the pace we are used to until earlier this year. it's 1999 all over again. Transaction speeds (Time taken to read and write to the chain) have increased 500x. Transaction cost have come down from 5 bucks to 0002 of a penny.

     Just like back then we had to go beyond 56k bps modems and dail-up. That just happened. Stay tuned ;)

    Stay tuned for what? The most invasive Pay 2 Win cash shop system ever? Oh boy. Edge of my seat.
    How is it invasive? 
    bcbully



  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    Nilden said:
    bcbully said:
    Seriously the lack of understanding some of you show, you who used to MAKE tech, who played MUDs, who MADE THE VIDEO GAME MARKET, is just shameful. I'm not joking. Teetering on the edge of idiocy by definition.

    Really off questions, even worse assumptions. You owe it to yourself to do some research. 




    In 5 years there will be no AAA games that are not on blockchain.


    "You might not like change, but youre going to hate extinction" - the universe

    multiverse?
    metaverse?



    edit- 


    Ok I got a MUD I want on blockchain.

    I'm not going to monetize anything. 

    Tell me a single advantage my players will have with this over just a regular MUD. How will this improve gameplay?
    You can create truly rare Legendary items that can never be recreated.

    You could make every single item verifiable unique in game.

    You could build an economy with those items that can never be exploited by dups. 

    You could create a player run governance system; guild, alliance, faction thats based on coin or quest item or land ownership 0 spoofing. 

    Those players if they so choose could create their own out of game market place and sell their items if they choose.

    You could create a true permisionless in game banking system with real yeld that's not arbitrary and cast in amber ( ;) ). 

    Idk I'm a simple man butthat's what I came up with off the top of my head. 
    We have been over this before Bcbully, how many blockchain games have ever implemented one of these features? If a game had several it would be a major change in the way MMOs can be made, but it is hard to find one with any of these innovations.
    It wasn't truly possible to make a mmorpg that moves at the pace we are used to until earlier this year. it's 1999 all over again. Transaction speeds (Time taken to read and write to the chain) have increased 500x. Transaction cost have come down from 5 bucks to 0002 of a penny.

     Just like back then we had to go beyond 56k bps modems and dail-up. That just happened. Stay tuned ;)

    Stay tuned for what? The most invasive Pay 2 Win cash shop system ever? Oh boy. Edge of my seat.
    How is it invasive? 
    The entire "multiverse" idea means it wants to spread to other games. This crap won't just infect one game. The entire focus will be that it's a blockchain game. Like the Borg hive coming for you. Only P2W to the max.

    And we will have cartoon characters with dollar signs in their eyes who think they will make money off this falling head over heels for it.
    GdemamiScot

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    edited July 2021
    Nilden said:
    How is it invasive? 
    The entire "multiverse" idea means it wants to spread to other games. This crap won't just infect one game. The entire focus will be that it's a blockchain game. Like the Borg hive coming for you. Only P2W to the max.

    And we will have cartoon characters with dollar signs in their eyes who think they will make money off this falling head over heels for it.
    I still don't see how that makes it invasive. I don't see how it's a detriment at all. The "pay 2 win" mentality is already wildly prevalent in games today. The difference between blockchain games and non blockchain games right now is that you're far more limited in the scope of non blockchain games. 

    You think people aren't selling world of warcraft accounts? wow gold? or anything else across dozens of games? But the difference is, in those games, you're not "allowed" to buy them, so you could buy something and lose everything if blizzard finds out. 

    Blockchains ability to give a scarcity and power to players that they didn't have before isn't invasive. It's something that's always been there, but limited by a company that refuses to let you do what you want to do with the items you've paid for or earned. 

    Migrating gear from one game to another isn't a bad thing either. They do this in some games already, but not very well. This ability of being able to bring your characters, your gear, your resources, it's a big deal. 

    I've mentioned this before, but I have a hard time understanding why people dislike the premise of blockchain games. It takes everything you already do, but provides more freedom in what you buy and what you earn in game. There isn't a singular use of it. Saying you hate blockchain is like saying you hate onions. It's a component that can be used in so many ways, saying you'll never play anything with blockchain makes no sense. When it's done right, you'll end up playing a game with it implemented and you may not even know it.

    No, it can't be called "bitcoin gaming" because blockchain games don't always use bitcoin. It can't be called "crypto gaming" because not all games use a cryptocurrency. A blockchain isn't either of those things, it's an underlying system that makes those things possible. 
    bcbullyGrindcoreTHRALL



  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Nilden said:
    How is it invasive? 
    The entire "multiverse" idea means it wants to spread to other games. This crap won't just infect one game. The entire focus will be that it's a blockchain game. Like the Borg hive coming for you. Only P2W to the max.

    And we will have cartoon characters with dollar signs in their eyes who think they will make money off this falling head over heels for it.
    I still don't see how that makes it invasive. I don't see how it's a detriment at all. The "pay 2 win" mentality is already wildly prevalent in games today. The difference between blockchain games and non blockchain games right now is that you're far more limited in the scope of non blockchain games. 

    You think people aren't selling world of warcraft accounts? wow gold? or anything else across dozens of games? But the difference is, in those games, you're not "allowed" to buy them, so you could buy something and lose everything if blizzard finds out. 

    Blockchains ability to give a scarcity and power to players that they didn't have before isn't invasive. It's something that's always been there, but limited by a company that refuses to let you do what you want to do with the items you've paid for or earned. 

    Migrating gear from one game to another isn't a bad thing either. They do this in some games already, but not very well. This ability of being able to bring your characters, your gear, your resources, it's a big deal. 

    I've mentioned this before, but I have a hard time understanding why people dislike the premise of blockchain games. It takes everything you already do, but provides more freedom in what you buy and what you earn in game. There isn't a singular use of it. Saying you hate blockchain is like saying you hate onions. It's a component that can be used in so many ways, saying you'll never play anything with blockchain makes no sense. When it's done right, you'll end up playing a game with it implemented and you may not even know it.

    No, it can't be called "bitcoin gaming" because blockchain games don't always use bitcoin. It can't be called "crypto gaming" because not all games use a cryptocurrency. A blockchain isn't either of those things, it's an underlying system that makes those things possible. 
    If you have a regular game and it gets blockchain. It's no longer a regular game it's now a blockchain game. Blockchain takes over and is the focus of the game. Look at this article, it isn't about the cool new space game, it's about the blockchain. It permeates the entire game. 

    This is the most P2W BS I have ever seen. I don't think you could come up with a more invasive P2W system. Like an invasive organism that negatively affects it's environment.

    It isn't about a 100% secure trading system that you can't dupe. It's all about the money.

    If you're fine with Pay 2 Win and RMT I'm sure this is great news.
    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited July 2021
    Checking accounts that you pay for. Saving accounts you get no money for. Currency that's intentionally devalued 2% or more per year. Games that own the very account you pay for.


    All  aggressively being disassembled. 
    Sensai
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