“What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism in this room? There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of necrotic-stage-capitalism. You can smell it. It smells like death."
Well at least this developer understands that there's a difference between saying "This game is good because it uses blockchains" and "This game is good and yes, it also uses blockchains."
I can have some patience to listen to the second pitch but I'll tune the first one out in nanoseconds.
Still, the bottom line in most of these games with blockchains is the casual acceptance that buying and selling game items for $ or $ equivalent digital currency is a good and normal thing we all want to do.
In other words you have to first accept that cash transactions are good for games and then kind of rebel against that and say "Hey, why should the developers be the only ones profiting? I want in on that action!"
The whole thing stripped of it's high tech trapping in most blockchain games is an implicit acceptance that P2W is good.
The game described in this article seems to be an exception because of one key difference:
"Our players can earn INF by playing the game — we don’t sell INF anywhere, so that’s the only way to acquire it."
This is the first time I have heard of a blockchain game that isn't all about selling its digital currency in the cash shop. So not P2W. That's interesting. A way to acquire some real world value by just playing a game. Without the influx of currency bought in a cash shop I expect the player profits will be pretty low but hey, it's something and without P2W in the mix.
But the bit about "atomic" transactions providing a secure in-game trading model where one player doesn't need to go first? That would have been a very good thing back at the turn of the century when games, Asheron's Call for example, did not yet have secure trading interfaces so someone did have to go first,
These days? Is there any MMO that doesn't have an interface pop-up when 2 players are trading where you first place your item or gold in the interface and lock it in and the other person does the same and then, and only then, can you both click "accept" to confirm the transaction? I mean... "atomic" using blockchain sounds cool and all but this is no different than what exists in all multiplayer AAA games in 2021 to make trades secure.
(Side note: ESO has a wishy washy crowns for gold system where you can "gift" someone with a crown shop item and they can "gift" you back some gold. This is a retro cash for gold scheme where you do need a 3rd party broker because it's otherwise done on trust with one party needing to "go first" That's the only modern multiplayer game trading system I'm aware of that isn't secure including any other 2-player in game transaction in ESO that doesn't involve crowns for gold, which use the standard secure trading interface.)
Edit: Damn I didn't read it carefully enough:
MMORPG: You mentioned that Infinite Fleet won’t be selling INF, players have to earn it in game. Would it be possible for players to sell INF to other players for real money? Do you see that as being a common practice?
Mow: INF is portable, meaning players can hold it in their own wallet outside the game, move it around freely, and do with it whatever they want. We expect that players will primarily use INF to buy ships and items from other players.
So there it is, the P2W is also in this game regardless of what they "expect"
Another developer expecting non-normal human behavior.
I'm waiting for a clear explanation of how blockchain technology affects games in ways other than monetary. Making it easier for games to be monetized isn't an improvement as far as the game itself is concerned.
Exactly what use will one game's NFTs be outside of that game? Everyone mentions you can an item to a wallet outside of the game. Who will want these tokens *UNLESS* they are also playing the same game? What good will come from owning an Infinite Fleet ship or their INF outside of the game?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Well at least this developer understands that there's a difference between saying "This game is good because it uses blockchains" and "This game is good and yes, it also uses blockchains."
I can have some patience to listen to the second pitch but I'll tune the first one out in nanoseconds.
Still, the bottom line in most of these games with blockchains is the casual acceptance that buying and selling game items for $ or $ equivalent digital currency is a good and normal thing we all want to do.
In other words you have to first accept that cash transactions are good for games and then kind of rebel against that and say "Hey, why should the developers be the only ones profiting? I want in on that action!"
The whole thing stripped of it's high tech trapping in most blockchain games is an implicit acceptance that P2W is good.
The game described in this article seems to be an exception because of one key difference:
"Our players can earn INF by playing the game — we don’t sell INF anywhere, so that’s the only way to acquire it."
This is the first time I have heard of a blockchain game that isn't all about selling its digital currency in the cash shop. So not P2W. That's interesting. A way to acquire some real world value by just playing a game. Without the influx of currency bought in a cash shop I expect the player profits will be pretty low but hey, it's something and without P2W in the mix.
But the bit about "atomic" transactions providing a secure in-game trading model where one player doesn't need to go first? That would have been a very good thing back at the turn of the century when games, Asheron's Call for example, did not yet have secure trading interfaces so someone did have to go first,
These days? Is there any MMO that doesn't have an interface pop-up when 2 players are trading where you first place your item or gold in the interface and lock it in and the other person does the same and then, and only then, can you both click "accept" to confirm the transaction? I mean... "atomic" using blockchain sounds cool and all but this is no different than what exists in all multiplayer AAA games in 2021 to make trades secure.
(Side note: ESO has a wishy washy crowns for gold system where you can "gift" someone with a crown shop item and they can "gift" you back some gold. This is a retro cash for gold scheme where you do need a 3rd party broker because it's otherwise done on trust with one party needing to "go first" That's the only modern multiplayer game trading system I'm aware of that isn't secure including any other 2-player in game transaction in ESO that doesn't involve crowns for gold, which use the standard secure trading interface.)
Edit: Damn I didn't read it carefully enough:
MMORPG: You mentioned that Infinite Fleet won’t be selling INF, players have to earn it in game. Would it be possible for players to sell INF to other players for real money? Do you see that as being a common practice?
Mow: INF is portable, meaning players can hold it in their own wallet outside the game, move it around freely, and do with it whatever they want. We expect that players will primarily use INF to buy ships and items from other players.
So there it is, the P2W is also in this game regardless of what they "expect"
Another developer expecting non-normal human behavior.
I'm waiting for a clear explanation of how blockchain technology affects games in ways other than monetary. Making it easier for games to be monetized isn't an improvement as far as the game itself is concerned.
Exactly what use will one game's NFTs be outside of that game? Everyone mentions you can an item to a wallet outside of the game. Who will want these tokens *UNLESS* they are also playing the same game? What good will come from owning an Infinite Fleet ship or their INF outside of the game?
Well, if you're not playing the game, what good is it outside of the game to people who are non-players? Probably people who would consider themselves "crypto investors" I would guess. Additionally, as Samson says in the interview, you could potentially move those ships to other games. That could lead the way to a real change in the way cross gaming works, and a real economy.
Here's the thing I don't get about people who don't like the idea of blockchain games. Right now, a lot of players spend money on games and objects in games, or spend time getting objects in games, and when they move on from those games, they become useless and worthless.
With these blockchain games that are providing some kind of "ownership" of your items, so that you can choose to sell them if you want, or keep them, at least when you're done playing you can legitimately get rid of all of your assets.
There's the running joke in games where someone rage quits and we say "can I have your stuff?" Well, in these blockchain games, you could say "yes, you can have my stuff, for 100 bucks" and the developers won't consider it against the TOS.
It's honestly really hard for me to understand some perspectives, no matter how eloquent written.
You play games you enjoy. The things you do in those games are the same for off-chain or on-chain games.
It seems as if the tech itself is challenging some of your motives for playing. I'm not about to grind a bad game for income. Some might, right? we've seen it for years ie gold farmers. More power to them.
A good mmorpg always and forever will be a good mmorpg. A bad money grab is a bad money grab.
Crypto making a game bad is like saying ransomware attacks are because of Bitcoin.
Certainly, if a game looks interesting, I'm not going to refuse to play it just because it uses blockchain somehow. The problem is the games where if you try to find out what the developers think makes the game interesting, all that they want to talk about is blockchain and crypto and how to give them money and implying that you can make a bunch of money by playing their game.
I'm waiting for a clear explanation of how blockchain technology affects games in ways other than monetary. Making it easier for games to be monetized isn't an improvement as far as the game itself is concerned.
Exactly what use will one game's NFTs be outside of that game? Everyone mentions you can an item to a wallet outside of the game. Who will want these tokens *UNLESS* they are also playing the same game? What good will come from owning an Infinite Fleet ship or their INF outside of the game?
The problem is that blockchain is a tool, not a feature. It's kind of like asking how will C++20 affect games, or how will Vulkan affect games. There isn't an intrinsic effect of using the tool. It all depends on what you do with it.
And that's why "we use blockchain" is such a ridiculous selling point. It's like saying that you should play our game because we use DirectX 12 Ultimate, or because we use the Unreal engine, or because the game will run on a PS5. What matters is what you do with the tools you use, as that's what will make a game interesting or not.
Am I in? You betcha, but I visited their store first and to my horror their best battleships are selling out like hot cakes.
Seems they are issued in limited editions, so there's only 138 / 200 Polaris Versa "MK4" left before they are all gone!
Surely since the "MK3's" are likely reselling for much more than the $40 store price I should probably stock up and purchase a dozen or so as an "investment" for the future, right?
Man, I'd better get busy while I can get in on the ground floor of this "amazing" financial opportunity.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
NOBODY and i mean nobody will knwowho is selling the INF and where it came from.Teh developer could make fake players to actually sell INF outside the game similar to ISK issues in Eve,
You cannot allow ANY outside interference in games...NONE.The entire design can also push it towards selling and buying INF outside the game by creating wanted/needed ships at ridiculous prices.
IDK the entire structure behind the actual game but nobody will unless they get into the game first and play it for quite some time.So all players would in essence be walking in BLIND to a VERY sketchy system that can and likely will change for the worse over time.
Dude mentions that you can invest for as little as $100 on WHAT?What are they investing in to a video games pixel assets that they will NEVER own?So just like Crypto you will never touch this money,never hold it but you can bet the publisher will be touching their money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Got some serious Robotech/Macross vibes from the get go..then it just got bad. It's pretty bad when English dubbed Japanese cartoon imports from the 80's have better Voice acting, pacing and drama than something from 2021.
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
What I think people may not be seeing is how similar this is to the introduction of both F2P and GaaS. We were told how F2P meant you could now play games for free, we know how that really worked out. We were told that a game as a service was all about catering to the player, we know how that turned out.
Now cryptocurrency games are saying these games aren't free, we will pay you to play them! We have been here before, too many times to be sold another dead parrot, don't believe the hype.
A pertinent question, I don't think it has, but when has that ever stopped gaming journalists or gamers from wanting to talk about a game?
The game is in closed alpha, and invites seem to go out every week. Buying something doesn't guarantee you get into closed alpha either, and it also seems people that don't buy stuff also get into the alpha. I don't think there's an NDA cause if you look on their twitter people seem to post screenshots and stuff and they retweet them.
Ships look cool. I've never been a big space-strategy guy though.
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
But is "transparency" any fun cause I'm just not seeing it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't care what technology a game uses along as its enjoyable to play.
But as this game is atleast 2- 4 years before they have a working viable game .
Until then great the games got potential there are 100s games releasing in the next 6 months that have that too.
This just seems as a way to promote a game so it can get some capital to actually be started development. Which is a distressing trend of late games that are developed this way.
I miss the days when we found out about games releasing in a year.
Now days we seem to be ok funding games that are bare concepts and never see release.
Current games; Star treck online Rift Eve online Firefall
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
But is "transparency" any fun cause I'm just not seeing it.
This is not primarily about fun, it not primarily about gaming, it is primarily about thinking you are making money. And players wonder why we have concerns about the blockchain approach.
If there was really that much transparency then answer me this. There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game? Because if transparency is what blockchain is about then you would.
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
But is "transparency" any fun cause I'm just not seeing it.
This is not primarily about fun, it not primarily about gaming, it is primarily about thinking you are making money. And players wonder why we have concerns about the blockchain approach.
If there was really that much transparency then answer me this. There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game? Because if transparency is what blockchain is about then you would.
Yes Scot, you do know the odds. Most the time you can even select the odds on gambling Dapps
polyroll.org treasurekey.bet
True random and permissionless. All opensource code
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
But is "transparency" any fun cause I'm just not seeing it.
This is not primarily about fun, it not primarily about gaming, it is primarily about thinking you are making money. And players wonder why we have concerns about the blockchain approach.
If there was really that much transparency then answer me this. There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game? Because if transparency is what blockchain is about then you would.
Yes Scot, you do know the odds. Most the time you can even select the odds on gambling Dapps
polyroll.org treasurekey.bet
True random and permissionless. All opensource code
But what are the odds I can resell those $40 spaceships in their store for more than I paid for them, say 3 yrs down the road?
Or will the company store still be selling them, now called the "limited" edition MK-54?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It is in reality VERY simple,no different than seeing a race car cross th finish line and the checkered flag comes up,well with these typew of BS designs a RED FLAG out at the starting line and never drops for a second.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Wiz it's all on the ledger... You can follow every movement of every INF if you want. Developer wallets and all... This is common place with all crypto. Transparency is powerful.
But is "transparency" any fun cause I'm just not seeing it.
This is not primarily about fun, it not primarily about gaming, it is primarily about thinking you are making money. And players wonder why we have concerns about the blockchain approach.
If there was really that much transparency then answer me this. There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game? Because if transparency is what blockchain is about then you would.
Yes Scot, you do know the odds. Most the time you can even select the odds on gambling Dapps
polyroll.org treasurekey.bet
True random and permissionless. All opensource code
But what are the odds I can resell those $40 spaceships in their store for more than I paid for them, say 3 yrs down the road?
Or will the company store still be selling them, now called the "limited" edition MK-54?
It depends on how the game goes, and I guess what you end up doing with your ships. I will say this... love it or hate it, but some other games literally sell an NFT item in a limited quantity for like 150 dollars, and once they are gone, those same people resell them minutes later for double or triple the amount they just paid.
And that's on games that aren't even that popular. I would assume if this game ends up getting popular, you might see some crazy prices for ships players sell.
Comments
thanks for the link, LUV that reddit!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Here's the thing I don't get about people who don't like the idea of blockchain games. Right now, a lot of players spend money on games and objects in games, or spend time getting objects in games, and when they move on from those games, they become useless and worthless.
With these blockchain games that are providing some kind of "ownership" of your items, so that you can choose to sell them if you want, or keep them, at least when you're done playing you can legitimately get rid of all of your assets.
There's the running joke in games where someone rage quits and we say "can I have your stuff?" Well, in these blockchain games, you could say "yes, you can have my stuff, for 100 bucks" and the developers won't consider it against the TOS.
And that's why "we use blockchain" is such a ridiculous selling point. It's like saying that you should play our game because we use DirectX 12 Ultimate, or because we use the Unreal engine, or because the game will run on a PS5. What matters is what you do with the tools you use, as that's what will make a game interesting or not.
Seems they are issued in limited editions, so there's only 138 / 200 Polaris Versa "MK4" left before they are all gone!
Surely since the "MK3's" are likely reselling for much more than the $40 store price I should probably stock up and purchase a dozen or so as an "investment" for the future, right?
Man, I'd better get busy while I can get in on the ground floor of this "amazing" financial opportunity.
Lulz.
https://www.infinitefleet.com/store/list/all?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sitrep
No P2W here, no siree
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
NOBODY and i mean nobody will knwowho is selling the INF and where it came from.Teh developer could make fake players to actually sell INF outside the game similar to ISK issues in Eve,
You cannot allow ANY outside interference in games...NONE.The entire design can also push it towards selling and buying INF outside the game by creating wanted/needed ships at ridiculous prices.
IDK the entire structure behind the actual game but nobody will unless they get into the game first and play it for quite some time.So all players would in essence be walking in BLIND to a VERY sketchy system that can and likely will change for the worse over time.
Dude mentions that you can invest for as little as $100 on WHAT?What are they investing in to a video games pixel assets that they will NEVER own?So just like Crypto you will never touch this money,never hold it but you can bet the publisher will be touching their money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I actually mentioned awhile ago that after the loot box crap devs will not stop and coming up with new monetization ideas.
When a game is designed in a way that you the gamer cannot fully trust it then you should NOT trust it...simple.
DO NOT allow these scummy new monetization ideas to enter into gaming,stop them in their tracks,don't even give it a second thought..say NO...HELL NO.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Current games;
Star treck online
Rift
Eve online
Firefall
Now cryptocurrency games are saying these games aren't free, we will pay you to play them! We have been here before, too many times to be sold another dead parrot, don't believe the hype.
Ships look cool. I've never been a big space-strategy guy though.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't care what technology a game uses along as its enjoyable to play.
But as this game is atleast 2- 4 years before they have a working viable game .
Until then great the games got potential there are 100s games releasing in the next 6 months that have that too.
This just seems as a way to promote a game so it can get some capital to actually be started development. Which is a distressing trend of late games that are developed this way.
I miss the days when we found out about games releasing in a year.
Now days we seem to be ok funding games that are bare concepts and never see release.
Current games;
Star treck online
Rift
Eve online
Firefall
If there was really that much transparency then answer me this. There must be loot boxes and other casino gameplay in some of these games. Do you know the exact odds of all the casino gameplay in your blockchain game? Because if transparency is what blockchain is about then you would.
polyroll.org
treasurekey.bet
True random and permissionless. All opensource code
Or will the company store still be selling them, now called the "limited" edition MK-54?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And that's on games that aren't even that popular. I would assume if this game ends up getting popular, you might see some crazy prices for ships players sell.