Originally posted by scaramoosh EVE is growing because of them reasons yes but mainly because of the features it gives, otherwise people wouldn't touch it.
I agree it would grow regardless. But at a much more sedate rate. The reason for the explosion in growth was simple: WoW attrition SWG implosion
Otherwise EVE would still be slowly climbing towards 100k subs. I suspect at this point that they're probably knocking on the 150k subscribers door. 25k players online simo would generally indicate well over 100k actual subscribers.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! Soon theyll be breeding us like CATTLE!
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Roin Originally posted by Elnator I do not understand why people are so shocked that EVE is growing again.WoW trickle down is making almost every MMO grow as the WoW folks grow bored and move on to "real" MMORPG's.
And what I have quoted is a prime example of why no one likes Eve-Online fans. According to them if you aren't playing Eve-Online you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. If you are playing WoW, then you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. I hear all to often the Eve-Online community bragging about how mature their community is. So far, i'm not seeing any more maturity from any of you Eve-Online fans then I have in the many other MMO's i've tried.
You all want everyone to respect Eve-Online and it's accomplishments. Yet won't hesitate to take pot shots at every other MMO. At every chance you get. Don't you think you should try giving respect, if you are going to ask for it?
Erm Roin you need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. It's also patently obvious that you did not read my entire post. I don't even LIKE EVE. And I clearly stated as such in my post. YOU however, in your hatred of "EVE FANS" chose not to finish reading my post and knee-jerked a reaction post without thinking.
EVE is growing rapidly for 2 simple reasons: 1- People tired of WoW looking for other games to play. EVERY MMO I have played recently has large numbers of new players who are 'coming from wow'. EVE, EQ2, DAOC and others as well. Visit game forums for any of the popular (and some not so popular) sites and there are plenty of people posting "I am coming from WoW" or something to that effect. Not saying WoW is a bad MMO, it's not. But it IS simplistic by comparison to the other titles out there.
2 - SWG was the only other MAJOR Sci Fi MMORPG in the classic sense. It had over 250,000 players. SOE made a HUGE blunder and the population is now estimated (since SOE won't fess up to it) at about 50k-75k players. That's a LOT of people who enjoy a skill-based system in a sci-fi genre. And, low and behold, only 1 other MMO offers a skill based system in a sci-fi genre: EVE
Those two factors have caused EVE's recent explosive growth, guaranteed. MANY former SWG players went to EVE. Just look at the SWG forums here and you can see that many of the people posting there are now playing EVE after having left SWG.
Just exactly how you equate my statements, which are based in factual data that you can easily verify, to being an "EVE FAN" baffles me. I don't much like the rabid EVE fans either. But I like EVE bashers who do so simply because they hate the rabid EVE fans even less.
WOW is a decent MMORPG but it does not have a detailed player driven economy. It's crafting system is a complete joke. It has no player owned housing whatsoever. That's without going into the community issues it has (which is one of the worst I've experienced in any MMO, ever) the graphics being very old tech (which is nice in it's own way) and cartoony (which is a turn-off for many). It's a DECENT MMO. It's a great MMO to bring new people into the Genre, as witnessed by the fact that it's brought so many in. But it also lacks end-game content (don't deny it, everyone here who's played to 60 knows this is true) which means that eventually people grow bored with it and move on to other games with more depth.
Nothing wrong with WoW. Blizzard did a FANTASTIC job with making it exactly what it is. WoW does EXACTLY what Blizzard designed it to do. But anyone who argues that WoW has more depth than EVE or DAOC or even EQ2 is smoking some really good weed and needs serious help.
I give respect where it is due. I don't like EVE myself but it's a very well done game and is in a major growth phase since it's only major competition is in the process of collapsing (SWG) and WoW is bringing so many people in to the Genre who now, a year later, are starting to look for new ground to play in.
You are correct, I do owe you an apology. Looks like I did jump the gun. I thought I remembered you saying you played Eve-Online. Back when I use to poke fun at your DAOC is the greatest thing since sliced bread post.
Me, personally I don't find any depth in any MMORPG's out now or currently planned to be released in next couple of years. (And i've played Korean ones like Sun Online, Zera, and Granado Espada) That's just me though. I play MMO's based simply on if they are fun or not. For me depth isn't exactly a requirement. While it doesn't hurt to have it I can live without it. I do have this little complex about articulated fingers on models, but i'm not going to go into that.
I actually enjoy picking with you and Razorback. You two seem to never really lose your composure while posting. Something I use to be capable. (Probably why i've been warned and temp banned twice within last 3 months) I hold both you and him in very high regards. Even if I do not show it always.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Cowinspace Originally posted by Phoenixs ..is not: ... Deep lore. ....
Have to disagree on this one, the chronicles and stories available on the main site are great background and give huge amounts of detail (obviously not as much as those games based in an existing franchise, but they are great reads, even if you don't play)
Beating 25K simultanious online on one server is a big thing, I dare the WOW fanbois to even attempt getting half of that on one of their servers.
Keep your bragging to your own forums. 25665 is nothing, EQ2 has more, Wow, probably even AO. No matter what you say, this game is just one big fat screensaver that favors people who have been playing the longest. Don't tell me that "You can be good in one area" crap, the vets will always be better than you. Not to mention every bloody mission is the same, mining boring (duh), combat is very boring too, and your 100 ship battles can't do anything for me either, considering it takes months to reach them.
Originally posted by Cowinspace Originally posted by Phoenixs ..is not: ... Deep lore. ....
Have to disagree on this one, the chronicles and stories available on the main site are great background and give huge amounts of detail (obviously not as much as those games based in an existing franchise, but they are great reads, even if you don't play)
Beating 25K simultanious online on one server is a big thing, I dare the WOW fanbois to even attempt getting half of that on one of their servers.
The website has quite some lore, yes. But it feels so detached from the game. You read the lore on the website and log in to the game, but you don't see anything in the game about the stuff you just read about. That is one of the things I love about Wow. The ability to find places and happenings you know from the lore.
I dare Eve fanbois to get 6 million on their server. Come on, this is beside the point. Wow doesn't want/need 25k players per server. While Eve does. You can't compare those 2.
Originally posted by Havoc11 Keep your bragging to your own forums. 25665 is nothing, EQ2 has more, Wow, probably even AO. No matter what you say, this game is just one big fat screensaver that favors people who have been playing the longest. Don't tell me that "You can be good in one area" crap, the vets will always be better than you. Not to mention every bloody mission is the same, mining boring (duh), combat is very boring too, and your 100 ship battles can't do anything for me either, considering it takes months to reach them.
Yet another prime example of anti-fanboy-ness. You COMPLETELY missed the point. That's 26,000 people on one server. One shard. If it was such an easy thing to do, EVERY game would have implemented it already. I WILL tell you that you can be good in one area because this isn't a level-based MMORPG. I can kill someone with 3 times the number of skill points than me, and I likewise can be killed by a newbie a week into the trial. Try doing that in a level-based MMORPG. Next time you get a level 10 character, try killing a level 30. Try getting a level 2 character to kill you. It simply can't be done. Vets may be 'better' but they sure as hell aren't invincible.
Ok, I will agree with you that the game can get boring. I quit the game myself 6 times because of boredom. However, from my experience, other games are just as boring once you've seen it all and done it all. World of Warcraft? Quest grind. So is EQ2. Lineage 2 is also just an exp grind. You can talk about a beautiful world and landscape and interesting mobs and whatever, but you know that eventually they get boring. You eventually stop caring about the quest description and you only care about the quest reward. You stop looking at mobs differently, the only difference between x mob and y mob simply becomes a different name and location. The same world you marveled at when you first entered the game becomes nothing but a backdrop as you run from point A to B. Mind you, I'm not saying that EVE is 'superior' to any other game in this respect, I'm simply trying to point out that ALL games eventually become a grind. I've accepted this fact and that's why I still play EQ2 and Lineage 2 along with EVE, albeit for totally different reasons.
Hey, you don't like EVE Online, that's fine. You don't like another MMORPG, that's fine too. But don't come on here tooting your horn like your game is somehow better than another game simply because you don't like the other game.
[quote]Originally posted by Phoenixs The website has quite some lore, yes. But it feels so detached from the game. You read the lore on the website and log in to the game, but you don't see anything in the game about the stuff you just read about. That is one of the things I love about Wow. The ability to find places and happenings you know from the lore.
I dare Eve fanbois to get 6 million on their server. Come on, this is beside the point. Wow doesn't want/need 25k players per server. While Eve does. You can't compare those 2. [/b][/quote]
I have to agree, EVE's lore is pretty detached from the game, a disappointment when you consider how much it could have livened up the universe. Here's to hoping that in the future, the in-game events team will come up with some decent content for us to see and participate in.
WoW was designed to only hold so many people by design. EVE was designed to be a huge world, hence it works having so many people on one server. However, it's undisputable that having so many players on one server is a technical achievement.
Originally posted by Ranma13 I have to agree, EVE's lore is pretty detached from the game, a disappointment when you consider how much it could have livened up the universe. Here's to hoping that in the future, the in-game events team will come up with some decent content for us to see and participate in.
WoW was designed to only hold so many people by design. EVE was designed to be a huge world, hence it works having so many people on one server. However, it's undisputable that having so many players on one server is a technical achievement.
Yup, the NPC game lore is great reading but is poorly reflected in the game. What do I care if the Amarrian emperor was assasinated last week. It doesn't affect me nor the 50k players (at that time) in any way whatsoever. Standings between factions don't change, there's no increase in security forces, the highways remain unaffected, there are no blockades, no threats of war, no economic impacts.
In my opinion, the real game lore, the real "ripples in the pond", the real game legends and stories are those events driven by the players. This is where a single persistant world populated with 25,000 players at the same time really shines. For example, the Southern War between the [5] Alliance and the Xetic Alliance was a massive player event that was conceived, initiated, executed, and concluded by the players. It is a story of ego, agression, bitter infighting, politicial blunders, the breaking of bonds that were once iron-strong, the rise of a new order and the fracture of an old power, and a conclusion that begins with a civil war.
The stories and game lore derived from the Southern War are the stuff that livens up the universe. So in short, EVE's real game lore is found in the players' world, not the NPC world.
Originally posted by Elnator I do not understand why people are so shocked that EVE is growing again.
WoW trickle down is making almost every MMO grow as the WoW folks grow bored and move on to "real" MMORPG's.
And what I have quoted is a prime example of why no one likes Eve-Online fans. According to them if you aren't playing Eve-Online you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. If you are playing WoW, then you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. I hear all to often the Eve-Online community bragging about how mature their community is. So far, i'm not seeing any more maturity from any of you Eve-Online fans then I have in the many other MMO's i've tried.
You all want everyone to respect Eve-Online and it's accomplishments. Yet won't hesitate to take pot shots at every other MMO. At every chance you get. Don't you think you should try giving respect, if you are going to ask for it?
Erm Roin you need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. It's also patently obvious that you did not read my entire post. I don't even LIKE EVE. And I clearly stated as such in my post. YOU however, in your hatred of "EVE FANS" chose not to finish reading my post and knee-jerked a reaction post without thinking.
EVE is growing rapidly for 2 simple reasons: 1- People tired of WoW looking for other games to play. EVERY MMO I have played recently has large numbers of new players who are 'coming from wow'. EVE, EQ2, DAOC and others as well. Visit game forums for any of the popular (and some not so popular) sites and there are plenty of people posting "I am coming from WoW" or something to that effect. Not saying WoW is a bad MMO, it's not. But it IS simplistic by comparison to the other titles out there.
2 - SWG was the only other MAJOR Sci Fi MMORPG in the classic sense. It had over 250,000 players. SOE made a HUGE blunder and the population is now estimated (since SOE won't fess up to it) at about 50k-75k players. That's a LOT of people who enjoy a skill-based system in a sci-fi genre. And, low and behold, only 1 other MMO offers a skill based system in a sci-fi genre: EVE
Those two factors have caused EVE's recent explosive growth, guaranteed. MANY former SWG players went to EVE. Just look at the SWG forums here and you can see that many of the people posting there are now playing EVE after having left SWG.
Just exactly how you equate my statements, which are based in factual data that you can easily verify, to being an "EVE FAN" baffles me. I don't much like the rabid EVE fans either. But I like EVE bashers who do so simply because they hate the rabid EVE fans even less.
WOW is a decent MMORPG but it does not have a detailed player driven economy. It's crafting system is a complete joke. It has no player owned housing whatsoever. That's without going into the community issues it has (which is one of the worst I've experienced in any MMO, ever) the graphics being very old tech (which is nice in it's own way) and cartoony (which is a turn-off for many). It's a DECENT MMO. It's a great MMO to bring new people into the Genre, as witnessed by the fact that it's brought so many in. But it also lacks end-game content (don't deny it, everyone here who's played to 60 knows this is true) which means that eventually people grow bored with it and move on to other games with more depth.
Nothing wrong with WoW. Blizzard did a FANTASTIC job with making it exactly what it is. WoW does EXACTLY what Blizzard designed it to do. But anyone who argues that WoW has more depth than EVE or DAOC or even EQ2 is smoking some really good weed and needs serious help.
I give respect where it is due. I don't like EVE myself but it's a very well done game and is in a major growth phase since it's only major competition is in the process of collapsing (SWG) and WoW is bringing so many people in to the Genre who now, a year later, are starting to look for new ground to play in.
You are correct, I do owe you an apology. Looks like I did jump the gun. I thought I remembered you saying you played Eve-Online. Back when I use to poke fun at your DAOC is the greatest thing since sliced bread post.
Me, personally I don't find any depth in any MMORPG's out now or currently planned to be released in next couple of years. (And i've played Korean ones like Sun Online, Zera, and Granado Espada) That's just me though. I play MMO's based simply on if they are fun or not. For me depth isn't exactly a requirement. While it doesn't hurt to have it I can live without it. I do have this little complex about articulated fingers on models, but i'm not going to go into that.
I actually enjoy picking with you and Razorback. You two seem to never really lose your composure while posting. Something I use to be capable. (Probably why i've been warned and temp banned twice within last 3 months) I hold both you and him in very high regards. Even if I do not show it always.
But DAOC *IS* the greatest thing since sliced bread C'mon... admit it... you love DAOC... you're a closet DAOC addict... ADMIT IT DARN YOU! (kidding). For me DAOC is the best game on the market. I would say, however, that all the top 10 rated games on this site are actually quite good, each in their own ways. I personally DETEST WoW and I don't like EVE either. But they ARE good MMO's... just not my thing.
And thanks for the props. Nice to know at least someone respects me, god knows my kids don't!
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
EVE is the only MASSIVE multiplayer online roleplaying game hence its the only MMORPG. The rest are all suffering the GW approach to online gaming. ooo 6 people in an instance make it a MMO.. yeah 3000 per server aint crap either. Have fun in your little worlds. Delude yourself into thinking your playing a MMO. You're not. EVE is the ONLY mmo going.
I can piss off more people with 1 little scam in EVE than you even have on a server in any other game. I rest my case now piss off.
Originally posted by Cerrian Originally posted by Ranma13 I have to agree, EVE's lore is pretty detached from the game, a disappointment when you consider how much it could have livened up the universe. Here's to hoping that in the future, the in-game events team will come up with some decent content for us to see and participate in.WoW was designed to only hold so many people by design. EVE was designed to be a huge world, hence it works having so many people on one server. However, it's undisputable that having so many players on one server is a technical achievement.
Yup, the NPC game lore is great reading but is poorly reflected in the game. What do I care if the Amarrian emperor was assasinated last week. It doesn't affect me nor the 50k players (at that time) in any way whatsoever. Standings between factions don't change, there's no increase in security forces, the highways remain unaffected, there are no blockades, no threats of war, no economic impacts.
In my opinion, the real game lore, the real "ripples in the pond", the real game legends and stories are those events driven by the players. This is where a single persistant world populated with 25,000 players at the same time really shines. For example, the Southern War between the [5] Alliance and the Xetic Alliance was a massive player event that was conceived, initiated, executed, and concluded by the players. It is a story of ego, agression, bitter infighting, politicial blunders, the breaking of bonds that were once iron-strong, the rise of a new order and the fracture of an old power, and a conclusion that begins with a civil war.
The stories and game lore derived from the Southern War are the stuff that livens up the universe. So in short, EVE's real game lore is found in the players' world, not the NPC world.
Ofcourse the assassination of the Emporer had an effect on players. The main highways changed and some gates were even removed. Hence the whole "Cold War" edition. That's part of what makes EVE a great game - the ever changing npc story does effect the players. It's not just storytime for ccp.
Originally posted by Copeland EVE is the only MASSIVE multiplayer online roleplaying game hence its the only MMORPG. The rest are all suffering the GW approach to online gaming. ooo 6 people in an instance make it a MMO.. yeah 3000 per server aint crap either. Have fun in your little worlds. Delude yourself into thinking your playing a MMO. You're not. EVE is the ONLY mmo going.I can piss off more people with 1 little scam in EVE than you even have on a server in any other game. I rest my case now piss off.
just because EVE has the most does not its the only Massive. in my oppinnion, I think 7k people in one world is pretty massive. sure EVE has more, but that doesn't mean other games aren't. and besides, EVE is not an MMORPG. its an MMORP. its definitly not a game.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Copeland EVE is the only MASSIVE multiplayer online roleplaying game hence its the only MMORPG. The rest are all suffering the GW approach to online gaming. ooo 6 people in an instance make it a MMO.. yeah 3000 per server aint crap either. Have fun in your little worlds. Delude yourself into thinking your playing a MMO. You're not. EVE is the ONLY mmo going.I can piss off more people with 1 little scam in EVE than you even have on a server in any other game. I rest my case now piss off.
just because EVE has the most does not its the only Massive. in my oppinnion, I think 7k people in one world is pretty massive. sure EVE has more, but that doesn't mean other games aren't. and besides, EVE is not an MMORPG. its an MMORP. its definitly not a game.
It's all about perspective. EVE is more massive by 2.5x than any other game going on a server to server basis, therefore, it defines what massive is. We should set some standards these days about what a MMO really is and we should set it by server population which is the actual amount of subscribers you can interact with at any given time. I would like to define the term MMO as having at least 50% of the top games per server population. So in order to be an MMO now thanks to CCP an MMO would have to have an average per server population of 13,000 players. Let me know when one even gets close :P
One could argue that over-stating them is just as bad EVE's achievements are purely on the 'technical' aspect. And the main reason that they can pull it off is because a 'space' environment is much less taxing on the servers than any standard ground based MMO would be.
If they had 5 million players there's no hardware on the planet that could handle a couple hundred thousand concurrent players. If they continue to grow they're going to wind up sharding eventually... it's just a matter of how much the technology can handle.
I have never discounted what they've accomplished. I do give them props for the technology they're using though. It's definitely more advanced than other MMO's out there. (and probably more expensive too).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I just cannot believe how one person decided to turn this "Hey! Major achievement in server technology!" thread into a stupid and blatant war on Eve. My God, I have never before witnessed such incredible stupidity in my time on these forums.
I will not waste my breath on explaining my this is a crowning achievement, because people will continue to refuse to see what is so blatantly in front of them. This is a very grand thing, simple as that, I'm glad for it, simple as that. But for the sake of all that is still sensible here, stop for a moment.
This started out well, even non-players recognized this as a good achievement. When the hell did this become a debate on wether or not Eve is good? I agree with Copeland, not seeing this milestone is pure Ignorance. Now why don't we get back on topic and stop this stupid debate, which was never intended in the first place. It's only proving your either ignorant or scared, or both.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Gamewize I just cannot believe how one person decided to turn this "Hey! Major achievement in server technology!" thread into a stupid and blatant war on Eve. My God, I have never before witnessed such incredible stupidity in my time on these forums. I will not waste my breath on explaining my this is a crowning achievement, because people will continue to refuse to see what is so blatantly in front of them. This is a very grand thing, simple as that, I'm glad for it, simple as that. But for the sake of all that is still sensible here, stop for a moment. This started out well, even non-players recognized this as a good achievement. When the hell did this become a debate on wether or not Eve is good? I agree with Copeland, not seeing this milestone is pure Ignorance. Now why don't we get back on topic and stop this stupid debate, which was never intended in the first place. It's only proving your either ignorant or scared, or both.
Like I said, I never argued that it's not an impressive technical achievement. But stating that it makes EVE a better game or more of an MMO than other MMO's is stupid.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Jeeze, don't you folks get it? EVE is a great game, but its player base is tiny compared to WoW. EVE doesn't have just 'one Server'; it has hundreds of Servers. Virtually every system (zone) that you go to is a Server. Whenever more than a few folks show up at the same system (Server), EVE comes to a complete halt and the Lag is horrendous. What EVE does have is a single Log-In point, a single instance for each of its Zones, and Chat across all Zones. Like I said, great game, but the architecture does not scale well if any significant number of players show up in the same Zone.
Originally posted by Shoal Jeeze, don't you folks get it? EVE is a great game, but its player base is tiny compared to WoW. EVE doesn't have just 'one Server'; it has hundreds of Servers. Virtually every system (zone) that you go to is a Server. Whenever more than a few folks show up at the same system (Server), EVE comes to a complete halt and the Lag is horrendous. What EVE does have is a single Log-In point, a single instance for each of its Zones, and Chat across all Zones. Like I said, great game, but the architecture does not scale well if any significant number of players show up in the same Zone.
I'm not gonna go into that. The EVE fans get a bit rabid whenever you question the 'single server' concept
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Ofcourse the assassination of the Emporer had an effect on players. The main highways changed and some gates were even removed. Hence the whole "Cold War" edition. That's part of what makes EVE a great game - the ever changing npc story does effect the players. It's not just storytime for ccp. [/b][/quote]
I disagree with you on that. The highway chages were made to balance gameplay, particularly the breaking up of the only major market hub (Yulai) and the development of more regional market hubs (Jita, Amarr, Rens, Oursulaert). The Emperor Assassation plotline functioned only as a cover story for the gameplay changes that the Cold War content expansion was introducing. And unless you were roleplaying within the NPC storyline, the Assassnation plot had little to no effect on you. Compare that with Xetic's downfall, Guiding Hand Social Club's exploits, Red Alliance's POS warefare, the establishment of ISS Margins Outpost, MOO's rampage and system blockades, and Zombie's smartbomb day in Yulai.
All of those player events impacted the general population to such an extent that the fundamental gameplay was inreversibly shifted.
Xetic = super alliances are too unwieldly and bueracatic. Convinces many that smaller, leaner alliances are more suitable for 0.0 space.
GHSC = Corp and alliance internal security issues become a forefront issue and many organizations begin to review and strengthen their internal security.
Red's POS warefare = A war is won by sheer logistics and endurance as opposes to brutal combat.
ISS Margins Outpost = The first public outpost established in 0.0 space that is accessible to the general public.
MOO = The greatest symbol of EVE piracy at it's most pinnacle moment.
Zombie = The perfect demonstration that no system is safe. Resulted in the devs modifying gameplay mechanics.
Originally posted by Shoal Jeeze, don't you folks get it? EVE is a great game, but its player base is tiny compared to WoW. EVE doesn't have just 'one Server'; it has hundreds of Servers. Virtually every system (zone) that you go to is a Server. Whenever more than a few folks show up at the same system (Server), EVE comes to a complete halt and the Lag is horrendous. What EVE does have is a single Log-In point, a single instance for each of its Zones, and Chat across all Zones. Like I said, great game, but the architecture does not scale well if any significant number of players show up in the same Zone.
yeah yeah yeah it has many servers.. but only one shard. Actually the new architecture does scale well. Even in battles of 300+ server side lag is minimal. Now they're focusing on clientside lag and they are currently reworking the client issues so expect a fix to eliminate most of that lag soonish.
Comments
I agree it would grow regardless. But at a much more sedate rate. The reason for the explosion in growth was simple:
WoW attrition
SWG implosion
Otherwise EVE would still be slowly climbing towards 100k subs. I suspect at this point that they're probably knocking on the 150k subscribers door. 25k players online simo would generally indicate well over 100k actual subscribers.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! Soon theyll be breeding us like CATTLE!
WoW fanbois are pretty damn funneh
oh and grats to CCP
And what I have quoted is a prime example of why no one likes Eve-Online fans. According to them if you aren't playing Eve-Online you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. If you are playing WoW, then you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. I hear all to often the Eve-Online community bragging about how mature their community is. So far, i'm not seeing any more maturity from any of you Eve-Online fans then I have in the many other MMO's i've tried.
You all want everyone to respect Eve-Online and it's accomplishments. Yet won't hesitate to take pot shots at every other MMO. At every chance you get. Don't you think you should try giving respect, if you are going to ask for it?
Erm Roin you need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. It's also patently obvious that you did not read my entire post. I don't even LIKE EVE. And I clearly stated as such in my post. YOU however, in your hatred of "EVE FANS" chose not to finish reading my post and knee-jerked a reaction post without thinking.
EVE is growing rapidly for 2 simple reasons:
1- People tired of WoW looking for other games to play. EVERY MMO I have played recently has large numbers of new players who are 'coming from wow'. EVE, EQ2, DAOC and others as well. Visit game forums for any of the popular (and some not so popular) sites and there are plenty of people posting "I am coming from WoW" or something to that effect. Not saying WoW is a bad MMO, it's not. But it IS simplistic by comparison to the other titles out there.
2 - SWG was the only other MAJOR Sci Fi MMORPG in the classic sense. It had over 250,000 players. SOE made a HUGE blunder and the population is now estimated (since SOE won't fess up to it) at about 50k-75k players. That's a LOT of people who enjoy a skill-based system in a sci-fi genre. And, low and behold, only 1 other MMO offers a skill based system in a sci-fi genre: EVE
Those two factors have caused EVE's recent explosive growth, guaranteed. MANY former SWG players went to EVE. Just look at the SWG forums here and you can see that many of the people posting there are now playing EVE after having left SWG.
Just exactly how you equate my statements, which are based in factual data that you can easily verify, to being an "EVE FAN" baffles me. I don't much like the rabid EVE fans either. But I like EVE bashers who do so simply because they hate the rabid EVE fans even less.
WOW is a decent MMORPG but it does not have a detailed player driven economy. It's crafting system is a complete joke. It has no player owned housing whatsoever. That's without going into the community issues it has (which is one of the worst I've experienced in any MMO, ever) the graphics being very old tech (which is nice in it's own way) and cartoony (which is a turn-off for many). It's a DECENT MMO. It's a great MMO to bring new people into the Genre, as witnessed by the fact that it's brought so many in. But it also lacks end-game content (don't deny it, everyone here who's played to 60 knows this is true) which means that eventually people grow bored with it and move on to other games with more depth.
Nothing wrong with WoW. Blizzard did a FANTASTIC job with making it exactly what it is. WoW does EXACTLY what Blizzard designed it to do. But anyone who argues that WoW has more depth than EVE or DAOC or even EQ2 is smoking some really good weed and needs serious help.
I give respect where it is due. I don't like EVE myself but it's a very well done game and is in a major growth phase since it's only major competition is in the process of collapsing (SWG) and WoW is bringing so many people in to the Genre who now, a year later, are starting to look for new ground to play in.
You are correct, I do owe you an apology. Looks like I did jump the gun. I thought I remembered you saying you played Eve-Online. Back when I use to poke fun at your DAOC is the greatest thing since sliced bread post.
Me, personally I don't find any depth in any MMORPG's out now or currently planned to be released in next couple of years. (And i've played Korean ones like Sun Online, Zera, and Granado Espada) That's just me though. I play MMO's based simply on if they are fun or not. For me depth isn't exactly a requirement. While it doesn't hurt to have it I can live without it. I do have this little complex about articulated fingers on models, but i'm not going to go into that.
I actually enjoy picking with you and Razorback. You two seem to never really lose your composure while posting. Something I use to be capable.
(Probably why i've been warned and temp banned twice within last 3 months) I hold both you and him in very high regards. Even if I do not show it always.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Have to disagree on this one, the chronicles and stories available on the main site are great background and give huge amounts of detail (obviously not as much as those games based in an existing franchise, but they are great reads, even if you don't play)
Beating 25K simultanious online on one server is a big thing, I dare the WOW fanbois to even attempt getting half of that on one of their servers.
http://www.eve-online.com/background/communication/
That's pretty deap.
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I love this kind of people - always open for an intelligent discussion.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Have to disagree on this one, the chronicles and stories available on the main site are great background and give huge amounts of detail (obviously not as much as those games based in an existing franchise, but they are great reads, even if you don't play)
Beating 25K simultanious online on one server is a big thing, I dare the WOW fanbois to even attempt getting half of that on one of their servers.
The website has quite some lore, yes. But it feels so detached from the game. You read the lore on the website and log in to the game, but you don't see anything in the game about the stuff you just read about. That is one of the things I love about Wow. The ability to find places and happenings you know from the lore.
I dare Eve fanbois to get 6 million on their server. Come on, this is beside the point. Wow doesn't want/need 25k players per server. While Eve does. You can't compare those 2.
Yet another prime example of anti-fanboy-ness. You COMPLETELY missed the point. That's 26,000 people on one server. One shard. If it was such an easy thing to do, EVERY game would have implemented it already. I WILL tell you that you can be good in one area because this isn't a level-based MMORPG. I can kill someone with 3 times the number of skill points than me, and I likewise can be killed by a newbie a week into the trial. Try doing that in a level-based MMORPG. Next time you get a level 10 character, try killing a level 30. Try getting a level 2 character to kill you. It simply can't be done. Vets may be 'better' but they sure as hell aren't invincible.
Ok, I will agree with you that the game can get boring. I quit the game myself 6 times because of boredom. However, from my experience, other games are just as boring once you've seen it all and done it all. World of Warcraft? Quest grind. So is EQ2. Lineage 2 is also just an exp grind. You can talk about a beautiful world and landscape and interesting mobs and whatever, but you know that eventually they get boring. You eventually stop caring about the quest description and you only care about the quest reward. You stop looking at mobs differently, the only difference between x mob and y mob simply becomes a different name and location. The same world you marveled at when you first entered the game becomes nothing but a backdrop as you run from point A to B. Mind you, I'm not saying that EVE is 'superior' to any other game in this respect, I'm simply trying to point out that ALL games eventually become a grind. I've accepted this fact and that's why I still play EQ2 and Lineage 2 along with EVE, albeit for totally different reasons.
Hey, you don't like EVE Online, that's fine. You don't like another MMORPG, that's fine too. But don't come on here tooting your horn like your game is somehow better than another game simply because you don't like the other game.
[quote]Originally posted by Phoenixs
The website has quite some lore, yes. But it feels so detached from the game. You read the lore on the website and log in to the game, but you don't see anything in the game about the stuff you just read about. That is one of the things I love about Wow. The ability to find places and happenings you know from the lore.
I dare Eve fanbois to get 6 million on their server. Come on, this is beside the point. Wow doesn't want/need 25k players per server. While Eve does. You can't compare those 2.
[/b][/quote]
I have to agree, EVE's lore is pretty detached from the game, a disappointment when you consider how much it could have livened up the universe. Here's to hoping that in the future, the in-game events team will come up with some decent content for us to see and participate in.
WoW was designed to only hold so many people by design. EVE was designed to be a huge world, hence it works having so many people on one server. However, it's undisputable that having so many players on one server is a technical achievement.
Yup, the NPC game lore is great reading but is poorly reflected in the game. What do I care if the Amarrian emperor was assasinated last week. It doesn't affect me nor the 50k players (at that time) in any way whatsoever. Standings between factions don't change, there's no increase in security forces, the highways remain unaffected, there are no blockades, no threats of war, no economic impacts.
In my opinion, the real game lore, the real "ripples in the pond", the real game legends and stories are those events driven by the players. This is where a single persistant world populated with 25,000 players at the same time really shines. For example, the Southern War between the [5] Alliance and the Xetic Alliance was a massive player event that was conceived, initiated, executed, and concluded by the players. It is a story of ego, agression, bitter infighting, politicial blunders, the breaking of bonds that were once iron-strong, the rise of a new order and the fracture of an old power, and a conclusion that begins with a civil war.
The stories and game lore derived from the Southern War are the stuff that livens up the universe. So in short, EVE's real game lore is found in the players' world, not the NPC world.
And what I have quoted is a prime example of why no one likes Eve-Online fans. According to them if you aren't playing Eve-Online you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. If you are playing WoW, then you aren't playing a 'real' MMO. I hear all to often the Eve-Online community bragging about how mature their community is. So far, i'm not seeing any more maturity from any of you Eve-Online fans then I have in the many other MMO's i've tried.
You all want everyone to respect Eve-Online and it's accomplishments. Yet won't hesitate to take pot shots at every other MMO. At every chance you get. Don't you think you should try giving respect, if you are going to ask for it?
Erm Roin you need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. It's also patently obvious that you did not read my entire post. I don't even LIKE EVE. And I clearly stated as such in my post. YOU however, in your hatred of "EVE FANS" chose not to finish reading my post and knee-jerked a reaction post without thinking.
EVE is growing rapidly for 2 simple reasons:
1- People tired of WoW looking for other games to play. EVERY MMO I have played recently has large numbers of new players who are 'coming from wow'. EVE, EQ2, DAOC and others as well. Visit game forums for any of the popular (and some not so popular) sites and there are plenty of people posting "I am coming from WoW" or something to that effect. Not saying WoW is a bad MMO, it's not. But it IS simplistic by comparison to the other titles out there.
2 - SWG was the only other MAJOR Sci Fi MMORPG in the classic sense. It had over 250,000 players. SOE made a HUGE blunder and the population is now estimated (since SOE won't fess up to it) at about 50k-75k players. That's a LOT of people who enjoy a skill-based system in a sci-fi genre. And, low and behold, only 1 other MMO offers a skill based system in a sci-fi genre: EVE
Those two factors have caused EVE's recent explosive growth, guaranteed. MANY former SWG players went to EVE. Just look at the SWG forums here and you can see that many of the people posting there are now playing EVE after having left SWG.
Just exactly how you equate my statements, which are based in factual data that you can easily verify, to being an "EVE FAN" baffles me. I don't much like the rabid EVE fans either. But I like EVE bashers who do so simply because they hate the rabid EVE fans even less.
WOW is a decent MMORPG but it does not have a detailed player driven economy. It's crafting system is a complete joke. It has no player owned housing whatsoever. That's without going into the community issues it has (which is one of the worst I've experienced in any MMO, ever) the graphics being very old tech (which is nice in it's own way) and cartoony (which is a turn-off for many). It's a DECENT MMO. It's a great MMO to bring new people into the Genre, as witnessed by the fact that it's brought so many in. But it also lacks end-game content (don't deny it, everyone here who's played to 60 knows this is true) which means that eventually people grow bored with it and move on to other games with more depth.
Nothing wrong with WoW. Blizzard did a FANTASTIC job with making it exactly what it is. WoW does EXACTLY what Blizzard designed it to do. But anyone who argues that WoW has more depth than EVE or DAOC or even EQ2 is smoking some really good weed and needs serious help.
I give respect where it is due. I don't like EVE myself but it's a very well done game and is in a major growth phase since it's only major competition is in the process of collapsing (SWG) and WoW is bringing so many people in to the Genre who now, a year later, are starting to look for new ground to play in.
You are correct, I do owe you an apology. Looks like I did jump the gun. I thought I remembered you saying you played Eve-Online. Back when I use to poke fun at your DAOC is the greatest thing since sliced bread post.
Me, personally I don't find any depth in any MMORPG's out now or currently planned to be released in next couple of years. (And i've played Korean ones like Sun Online, Zera, and Granado Espada) That's just me though. I play MMO's based simply on if they are fun or not. For me depth isn't exactly a requirement. While it doesn't hurt to have it I can live without it. I do have this little complex about articulated fingers on models, but i'm not going to go into that.
I actually enjoy picking with you and Razorback. You two seem to never really lose your composure while posting. Something I use to be capable.
(Probably why i've been warned and temp banned twice within last 3 months) I hold both you and him in very high regards. Even if I do not show it always.
But DAOC *IS* the greatest thing since sliced bread
And thanks for the props. Nice to know at least someone respects me, god knows my kids don't!
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EVE is the only MASSIVE multiplayer online roleplaying game hence its the only MMORPG. The rest are all suffering the GW approach to online gaming. ooo 6 people in an instance make it a MMO.. yeah 3000 per server aint crap either. Have fun in your little worlds. Delude yourself into thinking your playing a MMO. You're not. EVE is the ONLY mmo going.
I can piss off more people with 1 little scam in EVE than you even have on a server in any other game. I rest my case now piss off.
Make a difference!
Yup, the NPC game lore is great reading but is poorly reflected in the game. What do I care if the Amarrian emperor was assasinated last week. It doesn't affect me nor the 50k players (at that time) in any way whatsoever. Standings between factions don't change, there's no increase in security forces, the highways remain unaffected, there are no blockades, no threats of war, no economic impacts.
In my opinion, the real game lore, the real "ripples in the pond", the real game legends and stories are those events driven by the players. This is where a single persistant world populated with 25,000 players at the same time really shines. For example, the Southern War between the [5] Alliance and the Xetic Alliance was a massive player event that was conceived, initiated, executed, and concluded by the players. It is a story of ego, agression, bitter infighting, politicial blunders, the breaking of bonds that were once iron-strong, the rise of a new order and the fracture of an old power, and a conclusion that begins with a civil war.
The stories and game lore derived from the Southern War are the stuff that livens up the universe. So in short, EVE's real game lore is found in the players' world, not the NPC world.
Ofcourse the assassination of the Emporer had an effect on players. The main highways changed and some gates were even removed. Hence the whole "Cold War" edition. That's part of what makes EVE a great game - the ever changing npc story does effect the players. It's not just storytime for ccp.
Make a difference!
just because EVE has the most does not its the only Massive. in my oppinnion, I think 7k people in one world is pretty massive. sure EVE has more, but that doesn't mean other games aren't. and besides, EVE is not an MMORPG. its an MMORP. its definitly not a game.
just because EVE has the most does not its the only Massive. in my oppinnion, I think 7k people in one world is pretty massive. sure EVE has more, but that doesn't mean other games aren't. and besides, EVE is not an MMORPG. its an MMORP. its definitly not a game.
It's all about perspective. EVE is more massive by 2.5x than any other game going on a server to server basis, therefore, it defines what massive is. We should set some standards these days about what a MMO really is and we should set it by server population which is the actual amount of subscribers you can interact with at any given time. I would like to define the term MMO as having at least 50% of the top games per server population. So in order to be an MMO now thanks to CCP an MMO would have to have an average per server population of 13,000 players. Let me know when one even gets close :P
EVE is a MMO.. the rest are just MO's..
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Actually i just cancelled my subscription but discounting CCP's achievements is only showing ignorance.
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One could argue that over-stating them is just as bad
EVE's achievements are purely on the 'technical' aspect. And the main reason that they can pull it off is because a 'space' environment is much less taxing on the servers than any standard ground based MMO would be.
If they had 5 million players there's no hardware on the planet that could handle a couple hundred thousand concurrent players. If they continue to grow they're going to wind up sharding eventually... it's just a matter of how much the technology can handle.
I have never discounted what they've accomplished. I do give them props for the technology they're using though. It's definitely more advanced than other MMO's out there. (and probably more expensive too).
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I just cannot believe how one person decided to turn this "Hey! Major achievement in server technology!" thread into a stupid and blatant war on Eve. My God, I have never before witnessed such incredible stupidity in my time on these forums.
I will not waste my breath on explaining my this is a crowning achievement, because people will continue to refuse to see what is so blatantly in front of them. This is a very grand thing, simple as that, I'm glad for it, simple as that. But for the sake of all that is still sensible here, stop for a moment.
This started out well, even non-players recognized this as a good achievement. When the hell did this become a debate on wether or not Eve is good? I agree with Copeland, not seeing this milestone is pure Ignorance. Now why don't we get back on topic and stop this stupid debate, which was never intended in the first place. It's only proving your either ignorant or scared, or both.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
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I'm not gonna go into that. The EVE fans get a bit rabid whenever you question the 'single server' concept
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[quote]Originally posted by Copeland
Ofcourse the assassination of the Emporer had an effect on players. The main highways changed and some gates were even removed. Hence the whole "Cold War" edition. That's part of what makes EVE a great game - the ever changing npc story does effect the players. It's not just storytime for ccp.
[/b][/quote]
I disagree with you on that. The highway chages were made to balance gameplay, particularly the breaking up of the only major market hub (Yulai) and the development of more regional market hubs (Jita, Amarr, Rens, Oursulaert). The Emperor Assassation plotline functioned only as a cover story for the gameplay changes that the Cold War content expansion was introducing. And unless you were roleplaying within the NPC storyline, the Assassnation plot had little to no effect on you. Compare that with Xetic's downfall, Guiding Hand Social Club's exploits, Red Alliance's POS warefare, the establishment of ISS Margins Outpost, MOO's rampage and system blockades, and Zombie's smartbomb day in Yulai.
All of those player events impacted the general population to such an extent that the fundamental gameplay was inreversibly shifted.
Xetic = super alliances are too unwieldly and bueracatic. Convinces many that smaller, leaner alliances are more suitable for 0.0 space.
GHSC = Corp and alliance internal security issues become a forefront issue and many organizations begin to review and strengthen their internal security.
Red's POS warefare = A war is won by sheer logistics and endurance as opposes to brutal combat.
ISS Margins Outpost = The first public outpost established in 0.0 space that is accessible to the general public.
MOO = The greatest symbol of EVE piracy at it's most pinnacle moment.
Zombie = The perfect demonstration that no system is safe. Resulted in the devs modifying gameplay mechanics.
yeah yeah yeah it has many servers.. but only one shard. Actually the new architecture does scale well. Even in battles of 300+ server side lag is minimal. Now they're focusing on clientside lag and they are currently reworking the client issues so expect a fix to eliminate most of that lag soonish.
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