Hmm I gotta agree with Fadeus on this. The game pre-cu had 350k+ players. Before WoW came out, that number was considered a big hit. It was at the time the 2nd largest MMO in North America.
SOE certainly didnt expect to gain 100% of Star Wars fans. The ones they did get were gamers already and were happy with the sandbox style and difficulty.
SOE only changed their target market AFTER WoW's huge success. They tried to broaden the game by simplifying it which basically meant dumbing it down.
What I have never understood is why would anyone want to play an easy game ? It doesnt make sense to me. The whole point of accomplishing something was because it was difficult. Whenever a new player would join in and ask me how do i become a jedi or how do become a successful smith I always said something like play for 6 months and then the rewards will come. If they balked at the idea of having to play that long before becoming powerful in their chosen profession, I merely stated if its easy then it isnt special.
It felt great knowing that my time equaled reward. It was great playing a game where my crafted goods were better than others because I had taken the time to get skill tapes, mined the best resources, etc.
Originally posted by duggo Originally posted by FadeusOriginally posted by CymekI for one will not come back if it means killing hundreds of seething bols to level up. Part of the popularity of WoW is the grind is somewhat hidden...you may have to collect 10 theives sashes, but at least it is part of a quest where you get a reward....look at the success of Guild Wars...same thing. If they want to appeal to a broader audience, there must be quest granted XP. SWG was supposed to be for the fans, not a broader audience. Them trying to get a broader audience is what has SWG in the mess it's in now. Since when was a desire to spend hours in mind-numbing grinding a prerequisite for being a fan? SWG was supposed to be for Star Wars fans, not fans of timesinks. I would prefer that both quests and grinding were a viable option for xp gain (like CoH had), but the switch away from hardcore grinding, no matter how drastic IMHO, only helps make the game more appealing to a larger segment of Star Wars fans. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Trying to make a niche style game targeted at a mainstream audience (which is what Star Wars fans are) is why SWG was in trouble from Day 1. Had they thrown an EQ skin on the game instead of Star Wars, it would probably have been considered a rave success as opposed to the laughingstock that it was and is. -d
SWG was never a time sink pre-CU, you could master any profession in under 2 weeks. I don't see your point at all. It takes more time now and post CU to accomplish half of what it did pre-cu.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
There were time sinks but those sinks were Jedi and Crafting . It was a cake walk to be fully temped . Which IMO was one of the better aspects of pre-cu SWG you felt free in your choices , Changing your mind was hardly a chore to become something different . I agree the game could of used more content , a few more usable armors and a GCW with meaning . But without those things it was still a great game , For those adjusted to its style .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Sago Originally posted by Shayde Why not have BOTH??? After everything we have gone thru with SOE and what we experieinced with the NGE you really need to ask????? In reality we will not have both. That will never happen. nor would I want to see it happen. I don't want ANYTHING to remind me of the freaking BS we had to go thru with the NGE. SWG preCU was the most popular flavor .... stick with what worked and go from there. IMO.
Have to agree with that.
WoW has both... Coh/V has both. Can't understand why both is an issue.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Regarding xp, I am pretty sure Rogue_5 or perhaps Helios said recently they were looking at alternative ways to give xp. Ideally they would give it for quests or missions so people are not stuck with long mind numbing quest series, nor are they "forced" to buy an expansion in order to advance their character.
Currently ground xp and space xp is given for space missions. Next publish Entertainers will gain xp as entertainment xp by dance, image design, musicianship or...by slaying Valerians. Unless I am misreading what they have said so far. I would guess the spin docs will say these are innovative ways of granting xp and giving players some of the "choice" that they have been asking for.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo There were time sinks but those sinks were Jedi and Crafting . It was a cake walk to be fully temped . Which IMO was one of the better aspects of pre-cu SWG you felt free in your choices , Changing your mind was hardly a chore to become something different . I agree the game could of used more content , a few more usable armors and a GCW with meaning . But without those things it was still a great game , For those adjusted to its style .
I dont think crafting was really a timesink. It was annoying that weapons/armor for the most part wouldnt sell unless made by a master, and the only armor that ever sold was Composite, Ubese and RIS, but I dont think it was a timesink. SWG had one of the, if not the best crafting and harvesting/mining system around. Resource spawns were always unique, random and required actual work to find (if you didnt check swgcraft.com or whatever it was), unlike todays MMO's where you just run around looking for nodes.
Creature resource hunts gave rangers a purpose (unlike now...wait they dont exist anymore, nevermind), and an advantage at doing so. Now in the NGE it IS a timesink, kill 100 creatures and get maybe 30 meat or hide or bone, now that is a timesink.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
SWG was never a time sink pre-CU, you could master any profession in under 2 weeks. I don't see your point at all. It takes more time now and post CU to accomplish half of what it did pre-cu.
Examples of Pre-CU time sinks: Having to kill lair after repetative lair to gain xp = time sink. Having to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle = time sink. Having to wait in line for a doc or ent buff = time sink.
Regardless of how quickly you could have mastered a profession, there was no content to go along with mastering it, you just put your time in.
My point is that you state the SWG was made for fans not for a "broader audience" and that just isn't correct. Star Wars fans are the "broader audience" that Pre-CU caught just a tiny segment of.
Not saying that Pre-CU < NGE. But I am saying it's folly to think that Pre-CU is more suited to Star Wars fans than NGE.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by admriker444 Hmm I gotta agree with Fadeus on this. The game pre-cu had 350k+ players. Before WoW came out, that number was considered a big hit. It was at the time the 2nd largest MMO in North America. SOE certainly didnt expect to gain 100% of Star Wars fans. The ones they did get were gamers already and were happy with the sandbox style and difficulty. SOE only changed their target market AFTER WoW's huge success. They tried to broaden the game by simplifying it which basically meant dumbing it down.
I believe Lineage had millions of subscribers well before WoW was even announced. Perhaps SOE saw the Star Wars license as a means of reaching those types of numbers. Having never played Lineage, I'm curious how similar Pre-CU was to it in terms of playstyle (as people are saying NGE is trying to mimic WoW.)
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by admriker444 Hmm I gotta agree with Fadeus on this. The game pre-cu had 350k+ players. Before WoW came out, that number was considered a big hit. It was at the time the 2nd largest MMO in North America. SOE certainly didnt expect to gain 100% of Star Wars fans. The ones they did get were gamers already and were happy with the sandbox style and difficulty. SOE only changed their target market AFTER WoW's huge success. They tried to broaden the game by simplifying it which basically meant dumbing it down.
I believe Lineage had millions of subscribers well before WoW was even announced. Perhaps SOE saw the Star Wars license as a means of reaching those types of numbers. Having never played Lineage, I'm curious how similar Pre-CU was to it in terms of playstyle (as people are saying NGE is trying to mimic WoW.)
-d
If I recall correctly, Smedley (or someone else in SOE) predicted 1 million subscribers for SWG. Of course that materialized.
And no, Lineage and SWG are nothing alike. SWG was modeled after Ultima honestly. Koster was behind both games.
The original CU (also known as the combat revamp previously) was meant to fix issues with the game. After WoW's huge impact, the CU was redone to "appeal to a more broad audience" (Tiggs own words to me at Celebration 3). So WoW had more of an impact than most folks realize with the demise of SWG
Originally posted by admriker444 Hmm I gotta agree with Fadeus on this. The game pre-cu had 350k+ players. Before WoW came out, that number was considered a big hit. It was at the time the 2nd largest MMO in North America. SOE certainly didnt expect to gain 100% of Star Wars fans. The ones they did get were gamers already and were happy with the sandbox style and difficulty. SOE only changed their target market AFTER WoW's huge success. They tried to broaden the game by simplifying it which basically meant dumbing it down. What I have never understood is why would anyone want to play an easy game ? It doesnt make sense to me. The whole point of accomplishing something was because it was difficult. Whenever a new player would join in and ask me how do i become a jedi or how do become a successful smith I always said something like play for 6 months and then the rewards will come. If they balked at the idea of having to play that long before becoming powerful in their chosen profession, I merely stated if its easy then it isnt special. It felt great knowing that my time equaled reward. It was great playing a game where my crafted goods were better than others because I had taken the time to get skill tapes, mined the best resources, etc.
POST "O" the week...
THIS is why I enjoy "Sandbox" type games! They are a time sink and difficult at times, but working towards a "reward" is fun. I think that's why some younger gamers hate this concept. They want instant gratification.
As all us experieced and seasoned gamers know, instant gratification is fleeting. The real "fun" of MMO games are the PURSUIT of being the best at your chosen profession. You work hard at it and once you've reached that goal, the rewards are sweeter.
Where is the fun of having everything handed to you?
That's why I could never understand why people play games and get cheat codes or other spoilers... why bother playing the game at all?
To the OP. I have to say that this falls into the "too good to be true" catagory. Every other time I heard rumors, I laughed at them becaused they sounded so utterly stupid, but yet they materialized. So now, based on previous experience only, I have to say, "no way." It is a pretty good SW mmorpg dream though.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo There were time sinks but those sinks were Jedi and Crafting . It was a cake walk to be fully temped . Which IMO was one of the better aspects of pre-cu SWG you felt free in your choices , Changing your mind was hardly a chore to become something different . I agree the game could of used more content , a few more usable armors and a GCW with meaning . But without those things it was still a great game , For those adjusted to its style .
Sorry if you decided to go the Jedi route I have zero sympathy nor do I feel it's an arguement. They were put in a game they didn't belong in. As for crafting you can macro your way to master with only the games own tools and legally. It took alittle bit but it was nowhere near the huge timesink of other crafting professions in games.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by SofaKing2000 POST "O" the week... THIS is why I enjoy "Sandbox" type games! They are a time sink and difficult at times, but working towards a "reward" is fun. I think that's why some younger gamers hate this concept. They want instant gratification. As all us experieced and seasoned gamers know, instant gratification is fleeting. The real "fun" of MMO games are the PURSUIT of being the best at your chosen profession. You work hard at it and once you've reached that goal, the rewards are sweeter. Where is the fun of having everything handed to you? That's why I could never understand why people play games and get cheat codes or other spoilers... why bother playing the game at all?
Totally 150% agree ... younger kids don't want to put the time in to become anything. They want it now. I can't tell you how many times my 12 yr old nephew would start grinding a profession and then stop half way thru to do something else because it took too long. He eventually grew out of that in the end. But, this is what kids do ... want it now.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Sorry if you decided to go the Jedi route I have zero sympathy nor do I feel it's an arguement. They were put in a game they didn't belong in. As for crafting you can macro your way to master with only the games own tools and legally. It took alittle bit but it was nowhere near the huge timesink of other crafting professions in games.
Here we go again.
Jedi in SWG was not the problem. Not having Jedi in SW is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the jelly. It just isnt the same. You are also in with a minority. MOST people do want to be a jedi in the game. As proven when the NGE went live and Jedi was a "starter" profession. Everyone became a jedi. Now that was really sad.
What was wrong was SOEs and LAs not being able to see that once people figured out HOW to become a Jedi that ALOT of people will be doing what needs to be done to become one. Because SOE and LA did not foresee this, they had to scramble to come up with something. So they did away with holo grinding and in comes the Village. Bad move. Not by adding the Village, but taking away holo grinding. And if they had kept both, they still needed to go further.
Meaning, there is NOTHING wrong with having an Alpha class in an MMO. It gives people a goal, something to work towards. What is wrong is how it is implemented and maintained. It is all about checks and balances to keep the visible numbers of the Alpha class down
An Alpha class should not be able to lose anyone in 1 v 1 combat. Why? Because, the road to get there should be long and difficult one.
Personally I think SOE and LA should have instituted the getting glowy part, then the village, then holo grinding, and then the Jedi grind. WITH restrictions. I think the getting glowy part was a good idea. With the need to visit certain places and complete certain content with in the game makes people go out and do things. This would lead into the Village, which was set up with proper timelines in my opinion. Then could come holo grinding. This is where restrictions could come in to play. Only one holo could be used per month or 6 weeks with a minimum of eight professions needed before you can move on to further your path to enlightenment.
At this point alone a person is 9 months minimum into the process.
Now to the Jedi grind. I would have kept the grind the same, but lowered the visibility cap so BH can hunt new Padawans more frequently (only 1v1 at this point). Impose an XP and NOT skill loss with all BH related deaths for Padawans. This will slow the process and make new padawans VERY careful of what they do and where they go. Make it so that if they wear their robe in public that it will add to their visability.
Now the time frame is over a year, possibly well over a year, to become a Jedi.
Now once they are a Jedi they still need to be careful because if they die a certain number of times within a specific allotted time frame from ANY PvP conflict (PvE doesnt count), they would then go back to square one of the Jedi grind thus effectively removing them as a Jedi from the game for another 3 months. This process would also make Jedi aware of how many times they have died and they will pick their battles wisely, thus fewer Jedi in a battle.
An FRS system could also be implemented. With each additional rank a Jedi would slightly improve some Defensive or Healing abilities, or improve their Force level only (notthing offensive) and would also be awarded an extra death with each rank. Because they get the extra death with each rank, BHs would then be able to group. First 2 BHs, then with the next rank in FRS 3 BHs, and so and so on. Remember, NOTHING has been added to their toon that would increase damage. This would make for some damn good fights between BHs and Jedi. All BHs would need to have the mission. The Jedi do not lose their rank but do need to regain all the skills via grinding. The Jedi would also be able to use the saber they had before they died. No penalty there. Just the grind to get the skills back.
This was just an example of how it could have been done.
I was a Jedi and I would not have a problem with this type of system or any fair system as long as I know what rules are ahead of time.
BTW ... I don't want to hear this crap about time frame .... why? Because, 1. this is a SW game. SW has jedi. and 2. So what are game developers suppose to do? Make a different SW game for each time period regarding SW? This would be stupid.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by Sago Totally 150% agree ... younger kids don't want to put the time in to become anything. They want it now. I can't tell you how many times my 12 yr old nephew would start grinding a profession and then stop half way thru to do something else because it took too long. He eventually grew out of that in the end. But, this is what kids do ... want it now.
I think what you're witnessing is that kids generally don't like their games to be BORING, rather than a lack of work ethic.
Kids don't care about status as much as we do, so the fun is in the doing not in the overall achievement.
Unless the kid is some geekly nerd-a-zoid who's into stamp collecting, I can't see how you'd expected him to appreciate grinding out a profession.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by Sago Originally posted by Fadeus Sorry if you decided to go the Jedi route I have zero sympathy nor do I feel it's an arguement. They were put in a game they didn't belong in. As for crafting you can macro your way to master with only the games own tools and legally. It took alittle bit but it was nowhere near the huge timesink of other crafting professions in games. Here we go again. Jedi in SWG was not the problem. Not having Jedi in SW is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the jelly. It just isnt the same. You are also in with a minority. MOST people do want to be a jedi in the game. As proven when the NGE went live and Jedi was a "starter" profession. Everyone became a jedi. Now that was really sad.What was wrong was SOEs and LAs not being able to see that once people figured out HOW to become a Jedi that ALOT of people will be doing what needs to be done to become one. Because SOE and LA did not foresee this, they had to scramble to come up with something. So they did away with holo grinding and in comes the Village. Bad move. Not by adding the Village, but taking away holo grinding. And if they had kept both, they still needed to go further.Meaning, there is NOTHING wrong with having an Alpha class in an MMO. It gives people a goal, something to work towards. What is wrong is how it is implemented and maintained. It is all about checks and balances to keep the visible numbers of the Alpha class downAn Alpha class should not be able to lose anyone in 1 v 1 combat. Why? Because, the road to get there should be long and difficult one.Personally I think SOE and LA should have instituted the getting glowy part, then the village, then holo grinding, and then the Jedi grind. WITH restrictions. I think the getting glowy part was a good idea. With the need to visit certain places and complete certain content with in the game makes people go out and do things. This would lead into the Village, which was set up with proper timelines in my opinion. Then could come holo grinding. This is where restrictions could come in to play. Only one holo could be used per month or 6 weeks with a minimum of eight professions needed before you can move on to further your path to enlightenment. At this point alone a person is 9 months minimum into the process.Now to the Jedi grind. I would have kept the grind the same, but lowered the visibility cap so BH can hunt new Padawans more frequently (only 1v1 at this point). Impose an XP and NOT skill loss with all BH related deaths for Padawans. This will slow the process and make new padawans VERY careful of what they do and where they go. Make it so that if they wear their robe in public that it will add to their visability.Now the time frame is over a year, possibly well over a year, to become a Jedi.Now once they are a Jedi they still need to be careful because if they die a certain number of times within a specific allotted time frame from ANY PvP conflict (PvE doesnt count), they would then go back to square one of the Jedi grind thus effectively removing them as a Jedi from the game for another 3 months. This process would also make Jedi aware of how many times they have died and they will pick their battles wisely, thus fewer Jedi in a battle.An FRS system could also be implemented. With each additional rank a Jedi would slightly improve some Defensive or Healing abilities, or improve their Force level only (notthing offensive) and would also be awarded an extra death with each rank. Because they get the extra death with each rank, BHs would then be able to group. First 2 BHs, then with the next rank in FRS 3 BHs, and so and so on. Remember, NOTHING has been added to their toon that would increase damage. This would make for some damn good fights between BHs and Jedi. All BHs would need to have the mission. The Jedi do not lose their rank but do need to regain all the skills via grinding. The Jedi would also be able to use the saber they had before they died. No penalty there. Just the grind to get the skills back.This was just an example of how it could have been done. I was a Jedi and I would not have a problem with this type of system or any fair system as long as I know what rules are ahead of time.
BTW ... I don't want to hear this crap about time frame .... why? Because, 1. this is a SW game. SW has jedi. and 2. So what are game developers suppose to do? Make a different SW game for each time period regarding SW? This would be stupid.
In YOUR opinion they were fine there, not everyone's. You don't want to hear the valid points and its ok to you. Like I said, I don't pitty jedi one bit. Nor do I pitty you if you were one.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
In YOUR opinion they were fine there, not everyone's. You don't want to hear the valid points and its ok to you. Like I said, I don't pitty jedi one bit. Nor do I pitty you if you were one.
You want to be an ass fine be an ass ... I didn't ask nor did I need or want "pitty". You have NEVER given ONE SINGLE VALID EXAMPLE or ANY example for that matter of why jedi "didn't belong in the game". ANY examples of compromise, trying to make all people happy with in SWG on this subject was met by you with the exact same attitude you present above.
I never said it was "everyone's" opinion. I just said you are in a minority, which is true.
There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you are NOT objective on anything. It is all about you. What Fadeus wants.
Well ..... ain't life a bitch.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Star Wars creator George Lucas has agreed to write a 100-episode TV series of the classic sci-fi epic.
The series will focus on the missing years between Revenge Of The Sith and the original Star Wars movie, released in 1977.
Producer Rick McCollum said at Monday night's Empire Awards: "We're very excited - we just got confirmation George Lucas has committed to writing the Star Wars TV series.
"I guess this is the news all fans have been waiting to hear."
Filming on the TV series is expected to commence next year.
Originally posted by Sago Originally posted by Fadeus In YOUR opinion they were fine there, not everyone's. You don't want to hear the valid points and its ok to you. Like I said, I don't pitty jedi one bit. Nor do I pitty you if you were one. You want to be an ass fine be an ass ... I didn't ask nor did I need or want "pitty". You have NEVER given ONE SINGLE VALID EXAMPLE or ANY example for that matter of why jedi "didn't belong in the game". ANY examples of compromise, trying to make all people happy with in SWG on this subject was met by you with the exact same attitude you present above. I never said it was "everyone's" opinion. I just said you are in a minority, which is true. There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you are NOT objective on anything. It is all about you. What Fadeus wants. Well ..... ain't life a bitch.
Back to the personal insults because you don't like my answers. You already said you didn't want to hear my arguements and then you try to use me not telling you them as an arguement Nice try slick.
And actually you have no idea what I want, NOR do you have a clue as too what I did in the game. More of your guesstimations. Or perhaps you figured it out from my xfire sig too?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by duggo Examples of Pre-CU time sinks: Having to kill lair after repetative lair to gain xp = time sink. Having to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle = time sink. Having to wait in line for a doc or ent buff = time sink.
That's 1 out of 3. The shuttle waits were an inevitable time sink... but a legitimate one IMHO because they fostered the sense of community so lacking now. 10 minutes was too long, 5 minutes was good.
The repetitive lair killing and buff line waits are purely a consequence of how you chose to play. I was endlessly annoyed by the eternal whine of "But you had to get buffed to do anything!" No, if you didn't insist on soloing everything, wearing 80% Composite full armor and using weapons built for max damage regardless of HAM costs, you didn't need buffs.
In YOUR opinion they were fine there, not everyone's. You don't want to hear the valid points and its ok to you. Like I said, I don't pitty jedi one bit. Nor do I pitty you if you were one.
You want to be an ass fine be an ass ... I didn't ask nor did I need or want "pitty". You have NEVER given ONE SINGLE VALID EXAMPLE or ANY example for that matter of why jedi "didn't belong in the game". ANY examples of compromise, trying to make all people happy with in SWG on this subject was met by you with the exact same attitude you present above.
I never said it was "everyone's" opinion. I just said you are in a minority, which is true.
There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you are NOT objective on anything. It is all about you. What Fadeus wants.
Well ..... ain't life a bitch.
I'll give you a couple: Originally Jedi were not in the game and everyone was pretty damned happy playing. Guess what, people didn't even expect it either. Secondly, the timeline was set so that people were happy with the concept of only Vader and Luke. Then holocrons came along and literally destroyed a segment of the playerbase. Once that happened, people who had resigned their dreams of becoming a Jedi and were having fun in their chosen template decided that they needed to try, since everyone else was.
If you had been in these forums longer than 2.5 months you would know that Fadeus used to be an avid defender of the game and a voice of reason in these forums. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but bitch. I suggest you look in the mirror when you call people selfish.
Comments
Hmm I gotta agree with Fadeus on this. The game pre-cu had 350k+ players. Before WoW came out, that number was considered a big hit. It was at the time the 2nd largest MMO in North America.
SOE certainly didnt expect to gain 100% of Star Wars fans. The ones they did get were gamers already and were happy with the sandbox style and difficulty.
SOE only changed their target market AFTER WoW's huge success. They tried to broaden the game by simplifying it which basically meant dumbing it down.
What I have never understood is why would anyone want to play an easy game ? It doesnt make sense to me. The whole point of accomplishing something was because it was difficult. Whenever a new player would join in and ask me how do i become a jedi or how do become a successful smith I always said something like play for 6 months and then the rewards will come. If they balked at the idea of having to play that long before becoming powerful in their chosen profession, I merely stated if its easy then it isnt special.
It felt great knowing that my time equaled reward. It was great playing a game where my crafted goods were better than others because I had taken the time to get skill tapes, mined the best resources, etc.
SWG was never a time sink pre-CU, you could master any profession in under 2 weeks. I don't see your point at all. It takes more time now and post CU to accomplish half of what it did pre-cu.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
There were time sinks but those sinks were Jedi and Crafting . It was a cake walk to be fully temped . Which IMO was one of the better aspects of pre-cu SWG you felt free in your choices , Changing your mind was hardly a chore to become something different . I agree the game could of used more content , a few more usable armors and a GCW with meaning . But without those things it was still a great game , For those adjusted to its style .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Have to agree with that.
WoW has both... Coh/V has both. Can't understand why both is an issue.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Regarding xp, I am pretty sure Rogue_5 or perhaps Helios said recently they were looking at alternative ways to give xp. Ideally they would give it for quests or missions so people are not stuck with long mind numbing quest series, nor are they "forced" to buy an expansion in order to advance their character.
Currently ground xp and space xp is given for space missions. Next publish Entertainers will gain xp as entertainment xp by dance, image design, musicianship or...by slaying Valerians. Unless I am misreading what they have said so far. I would guess the spin docs will say these are innovative ways of granting xp and giving players some of the "choice" that they have been asking for.
Athela
I dont think crafting was really a timesink. It was annoying that weapons/armor for the most part wouldnt sell unless made by a master, and the only armor that ever sold was Composite, Ubese and RIS, but I dont think it was a timesink. SWG had one of the, if not the best crafting and harvesting/mining system around. Resource spawns were always unique, random and required actual work to find (if you didnt check swgcraft.com or whatever it was), unlike todays MMO's where you just run around looking for nodes.
Creature resource hunts gave rangers a purpose (unlike now...wait they dont exist anymore, nevermind), and an advantage at doing so. Now in the NGE it IS a timesink, kill 100 creatures and get maybe 30 meat or hide or bone, now that is a timesink.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
This rumor has made it over at SWG's forums as well.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=610397
Doubt it will be up for long.
Examples of Pre-CU time sinks:
Having to kill lair after repetative lair to gain xp = time sink.
Having to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle = time sink.
Having to wait in line for a doc or ent buff = time sink.
Regardless of how quickly you could have mastered a profession, there was no content to go along with mastering it, you just put your time in.
My point is that you state the SWG was made for fans not for a "broader audience" and that just isn't correct. Star Wars fans are the "broader audience" that Pre-CU caught just a tiny segment of.
Not saying that Pre-CU < NGE. But I am saying it's folly to think that Pre-CU is more suited to Star Wars fans than NGE.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I believe Lineage had millions of subscribers well before WoW was even announced. Perhaps SOE saw the Star Wars license as a means of reaching those types of numbers. Having never played Lineage, I'm curious how similar Pre-CU was to it in terms of playstyle (as people are saying NGE is trying to mimic WoW.)
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I believe Lineage had millions of subscribers well before WoW was even announced. Perhaps SOE saw the Star Wars license as a means of reaching those types of numbers. Having never played Lineage, I'm curious how similar Pre-CU was to it in terms of playstyle (as people are saying NGE is trying to mimic WoW.)
-d
If I recall correctly, Smedley (or someone else in SOE) predicted 1 million subscribers for SWG. Of course that materialized.
And no, Lineage and SWG are nothing alike. SWG was modeled after Ultima honestly. Koster was behind both games.
The original CU (also known as the combat revamp previously) was meant to fix issues with the game. After WoW's huge impact, the CU was redone to "appeal to a more broad audience" (Tiggs own words to me at Celebration 3). So WoW had more of an impact than most folks realize with the demise of SWG
POST "O" the week...
THIS is why I enjoy "Sandbox" type games! They are a time sink and difficult at times, but working towards a "reward" is fun. I think that's why some younger gamers hate this concept. They want instant gratification.
As all us experieced and seasoned gamers know, instant gratification is fleeting. The real "fun" of MMO games are the PURSUIT of being the best at your chosen profession. You work hard at it and once you've reached that goal, the rewards are sweeter.
Where is the fun of having everything handed to you?
That's why I could never understand why people play games and get cheat codes or other spoilers... why bother playing the game at all?
Sorry if you decided to go the Jedi route I have zero sympathy nor do I feel it's an arguement. They were put in a game they didn't belong in. As for crafting you can macro your way to master with only the games own tools and legally. It took alittle bit but it was nowhere near the huge timesink of other crafting professions in games.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Totally 150% agree ... younger kids don't want to put the time in to become anything. They want it now. I can't tell you how many times my 12 yr old nephew would start grinding a profession and then stop half way thru to do something else because it took too long. He eventually grew out of that in the end. But, this is what kids do ... want it now.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Here we go again.
Jedi in SWG was not the problem. Not having Jedi in SW is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the jelly. It just isnt the same. You are also in with a minority. MOST people do want to be a jedi in the game. As proven when the NGE went live and Jedi was a "starter" profession. Everyone became a jedi. Now that was really sad.
What was wrong was SOEs and LAs not being able to see that once people figured out HOW to become a Jedi that ALOT of people will be doing what needs to be done to become one. Because SOE and LA did not foresee this, they had to scramble to come up with something. So they did away with holo grinding and in comes the Village. Bad move. Not by adding the Village, but taking away holo grinding. And if they had kept both, they still needed to go further.
Meaning, there is NOTHING wrong with having an Alpha class in an MMO. It gives people a goal, something to work towards. What is wrong is how it is implemented and maintained. It is all about checks and balances to keep the visible numbers of the Alpha class down
An Alpha class should not be able to lose anyone in 1 v 1 combat. Why? Because, the road to get there should be long and difficult one.
Personally I think SOE and LA should have instituted the getting glowy part, then the village, then holo grinding, and then the Jedi grind. WITH restrictions. I think the getting glowy part was a good idea. With the need to visit certain places and complete certain content with in the game makes people go out and do things. This would lead into the Village, which was set up with proper timelines in my opinion. Then could come holo grinding. This is where restrictions could come in to play. Only one holo could be used per month or 6 weeks with a minimum of eight professions needed before you can move on to further your path to enlightenment.
At this point alone a person is 9 months minimum into the process.
Now to the Jedi grind. I would have kept the grind the same, but lowered the visibility cap so BH can hunt new Padawans more frequently (only 1v1 at this point). Impose an XP and NOT skill loss with all BH related deaths for Padawans. This will slow the process and make new padawans VERY careful of what they do and where they go. Make it so that if they wear their robe in public that it will add to their visability.
Now the time frame is over a year, possibly well over a year, to become a Jedi.
Now once they are a Jedi they still need to be careful because if they die a certain number of times within a specific allotted time frame from ANY PvP conflict (PvE doesnt count), they would then go back to square one of the Jedi grind thus effectively removing them as a Jedi from the game for another 3 months. This process would also make Jedi aware of how many times they have died and they will pick their battles wisely, thus fewer Jedi in a battle.
An FRS system could also be implemented. With each additional rank a Jedi would slightly improve some Defensive or Healing abilities, or improve their Force level only (notthing offensive) and would also be awarded an extra death with each rank. Because they get the extra death with each rank, BHs would then be able to group. First 2 BHs, then with the next rank in FRS 3 BHs, and so and so on. Remember, NOTHING has been added to their toon that would increase damage. This would make for some damn good fights between BHs and Jedi. All BHs would need to have the mission. The Jedi do not lose their rank but do need to regain all the skills via grinding. The Jedi would also be able to use the saber they had before they died. No penalty there. Just the grind to get the skills back.
This was just an example of how it could have been done.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
I think what you're witnessing is that kids generally don't like their games to be BORING, rather than a lack of work ethic.
Kids don't care about status as much as we do, so the fun is in the doing not in the overall achievement.
Unless the kid is some geekly nerd-a-zoid who's into stamp collecting, I can't see how you'd expected him to appreciate grinding out a profession.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
In YOUR opinion they were fine there, not everyone's. You don't want to hear the valid points and its ok to you. Like I said, I don't pitty jedi one bit. Nor do I pitty you if you were one.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You want to be an ass fine be an ass ... I didn't ask nor did I need or want "pitty". You have NEVER given ONE SINGLE VALID EXAMPLE or ANY example for that matter of why jedi "didn't belong in the game". ANY examples of compromise, trying to make all people happy with in SWG on this subject was met by you with the exact same attitude you present above.
I never said it was "everyone's" opinion. I just said you are in a minority, which is true.
There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you are NOT objective on anything. It is all about you. What Fadeus wants.
Well ..... ain't life a bitch.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
So ... that is what YOU wanted. I never said EVERYONE wanted to be a jedi. Look at the masses that became a jedi after NGE.
I rest my case.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Wont happen, end of thread.
Alot of people still enjoy and play swg, the game is thriving and its sad that you lot cant see that.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
The TV series timeline has been announced:
Star Wars creator George Lucas has agreed to write a 100-episode TV series of the classic sci-fi epic.
The series will focus on the missing years between Revenge Of The Sith and the original Star Wars movie, released in 1977.
Producer Rick McCollum said at Monday night's Empire Awards: "We're very excited - we just got confirmation George Lucas has committed to writing the Star Wars TV series.
"I guess this is the news all fans have been waiting to hear."
Filming on the TV series is expected to commence next year.
Alrighty then
Athela
Back to the personal insults because you don't like my answers. You already said you didn't want to hear my arguements and then you try to use me not telling you them as an arguement Nice try slick.
And actually you have no idea what I want, NOR do you have a clue as too what I did in the game. More of your guesstimations. Or perhaps you figured it out from my xfire sig too?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
The repetitive lair killing and buff line waits are purely a consequence of how you chose to play. I was endlessly annoyed by the eternal whine of "But you had to get buffed to do anything!" No, if you didn't insist on soloing everything, wearing 80% Composite full armor and using weapons built for max damage regardless of HAM costs, you didn't need buffs.
You want to be an ass fine be an ass ... I didn't ask nor did I need or want "pitty". You have NEVER given ONE SINGLE VALID EXAMPLE or ANY example for that matter of why jedi "didn't belong in the game". ANY examples of compromise, trying to make all people happy with in SWG on this subject was met by you with the exact same attitude you present above.
I never said it was "everyone's" opinion. I just said you are in a minority, which is true.
There is no doubt in my mind anymore that you are NOT objective on anything. It is all about you. What Fadeus wants.
Well ..... ain't life a bitch.
I'll give you a couple: Originally Jedi were not in the game and everyone was pretty damned happy playing. Guess what, people didn't even expect it either. Secondly, the timeline was set so that people were happy with the concept of only Vader and Luke. Then holocrons came along and literally destroyed a segment of the playerbase. Once that happened, people who had resigned their dreams of becoming a Jedi and were having fun in their chosen template decided that they needed to try, since everyone else was.
If you had been in these forums longer than 2.5 months you would know that Fadeus used to be an avid defender of the game and a voice of reason in these forums. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but bitch. I suggest you look in the mirror when you call people selfish.