Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Homosexuality IS NOT a sin.
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
What about free to maim and murder and kill and torture and inflict pain and poke out eyeballs and skewer gonads? To bugger little children and bury kittens alive.
Do you believe in no social controls at all?
I'm not especially into religion for the spirituality, I appreciate it for it's integrity to society. It's wisdoms and it's teachings of how man can live together better in harmony. The structure, order and precepts which give us a recognised and developed structure within which to interact without hurting another.
In short a public morality. I don't want random spiritual growth, I want specific spiritual growth. Minds controlled evil intimidated.
Why else would freedom feel so wonderful? Why else would discovering things on your own and following your own path feel like the most natural thing to do?
No one to tell you when you are wrong.
I know I've responded to you making a statement like this before. C'mon man, does it take too much imagination for you to think about what people mean when they say something? Or do you just have to nitpick at something just to make a statement?
When I say be freedom do you honestly think that I mean free to kill and maim? I mean, did the thought ever cross your mind that wasn't what I meant? I bet it did...
Freedom means that you have 100% right to do what you want to do with yourself. Now, keeping that in mind, it means that you have 0% right to impose your will on others. It's that simple. And if you deny another person that respect then you have to answer to the society that considers that freedom an important human right.
And if you want specific spiritual growth then why don't you work specifically on your spiritual growth instead of trying to impose yourself on others and denying them their freedom?
Oh, and about no one telling you you're doing wrong... If I'm following my own path of spiritual growth and respecting everyone elses right to follow there's, who is going to tell me I'm doing anything wrong? Except the people who feel it is their duty to manipulate others.
That's a rather faulty list. None of those to my knowledge were UU's, some were unitarians; and then some, like Isaac Newton...hardly.
How do you even begin to classify UU as a religion? It doesn't even begin to consummate any type of solidity or completion.
There is no truth, there is no God, there is a God, everything is truth, everything's a lie, there is hell, no hell, there are thousands of god's, there's the spaghetti monster god.
According to the doctrine of a UU, it accepts all of that, because it accepts all. There is no boundaries, it's whatever the hell anyone decides to make it.
The idea of truth is an non-existant concept to a UU, because everything is truth. No right, no wrong, no truth, no lie. How you could live in such a quagmire of confusion is beyond me.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
You're asking me questions that don't pertain to my beliefs. First off, I don't believe in magic, such as prophets or miracles. I believe in the natural laws. The ones that God created and gave to us to learn from and to grow by observing. I have never seen a man perform a "miracle". I have never seen a man perform "magic". I have seen people try to deceive others by creating an illusion of such things. But that's just a form of manipulation.
Miracles are something given to prophets by God, Magic is a trick done with the Djinns, there's a big difference, Magic is forbidden, a Miracle is not an illusion, Magic is, now i see you are mixing up things.
Second, go back and look at the questions you have asked of me. And then I ask you this question, is it not plain for you to see that the questions you ask come from a religion setup as a means of social engineering? I don't desire to be manipulated by another persons authoritative measures. I want nothing more than to be free to look around and learn from what God has shown me. Not what others have told me see. That poisons the mind and spirit and set them on a path of subordination, guilt, fear, and being enslaved by another. Do you really think a loving creator would want you to lead a life like that?
So you have no answers to me questions, how do you want me to join your religion if you have no answer to any of my questions? in this case, Islam is better than your religion, because Islam has all of the answers to all of my questions i wrote.
BTW, there are some Muslims that go to my church. They are Sufi's. We're a group of people that believe in taking from other religions if you see something that helps you on your journey. I'm not putting down 100% of religions. Just the parts that force people into belief through intimidation and denying personal freedoms.
Ahh, Sufis, well too bad for you, Sufis are not considered Muslims by the entire Muslim nation except themselves, Their beliefs and ways of life and worship has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, I am so sorry to tell you, but those Sufis are not Muslims, they might claim to be, but they are not, and they represent Islam in nothing.
As of WHY would i want someone to tell me what to do, i've got a logical answer for that question.
God created us right? right, ok.
Man created the computer right? right, ok.
When man demands something from a computer, calculate this, and the computer does something else, or doesn't do what man told it to do, what will the man do?
1- Reprogram it.
2- Trash it...and create another computer.
3- Repeat.
God created us, and he demands worshipping him from us, simple? yes simple, of course you have absolutely no idea what is the meaning of worship in Islam, unless you want to know, i'm not ready to waste my finger strength on explaining it.
So if God see us, mankind, not worshipping him, he sends prophets to:
1- Reprogram us.
2- Set us stright to the path he chose for us to take to be saved.
But mankind does this:
1- Deny.
2- Kill prophets.
So what does God do then?
1- Trash us, by erupting Vulcanos, Cyclons and earthquakes.
2- Replace us with people better than us.
But we mankind love to:
1- Repeat our mistakes bt forgetting who our God realy is.
2- Make statues which will make us forget.
3- Paint pictures of prophets and then with time next generations will worship them instead of God.
So God does:
1- Repeat 1 and 2, which is, trash, replace.
Very Logical? i can't get any more logical than this.
So you said it yourself, you believe in a powerful creator, what on earth does that powerful creator want from you? please tell me i demand an answer.
I'm not going to argue about what you believe or disbelieve. That's your right and I respect that.
But I will not respect someone coming to me and telling me what I am to believe. I'm not a computer. I'm a human being with decision making powers and a personality that God gave me. If he wanted me to do a specific task then he would have made me a computer and not a man.
You can follow your religion and you can live in my society without me ever imposing myself on you. Why is it so hard for you and your religion to do the same? I think if you ask yourself that question and honestly consider where authoritative religions come from you will begin to discover what will set you free to do what God wants you to do and not what men want you to do.
Why do you think that people who follow an authoritative religion steeped in guilt and fear get so angry at people who don't think like they do? Why do you think it is so impossible for them to leave people alone and let them live their own lives?
That's a rather faulty list. None of those to my knowledge were UU's, some were unitarians; and then some, like Isaac Newton...hardly.
How do you even begin to classify UU as a religion? It doesn't even begin to consummate any type of solidity or completion.
There is no truth, there is no God, there is a God, everything is truth, everything's a lie, there is hell, no hell, there are thousands of god's, there's the spaghetti monster god.
According to the doctrine of a UU, it accepts all of that, because it accepts all. There is no boundaries, it's whatever the hell anyone decides to make it.
The idea of truth is an non-existant concept to a UU, because everything is truth. No right, no wrong, no truth, no lie. How you could live in such a quagmire of confusion is beyond me.
I don't see any confusion in accepting the responsibility of my own growth spiritually and respecting the rights of others to do the same. That's not confusing to me in slightest bit. It actually seems like the most simple way to live my life. I follow own path and leave others alone to follow theirs.
BTW, we do believe in right and wrong. It is wrong to impose yourself on others and deny them their individual rights to freedom and liberty.
ob1sr, I have a question for you.
Do you think that America and it's strong ideals of personal freedom and liberties and it's secular form of government are a good idea? Or do you think the middle eastern forms of government that use Islamic law are better?
first i'll answer your second part of your question.
NON, ZERO, NADA, NULL, NOONE, just to make it clear, of the middle eastern governements implement Islam, just for your information, non of them, if it's in the governement's hands, they'll declare themselves athiests, and burn down Islam, but it is the people who are practicing Islam are the ones who keep the govies in line, besides when you say middle east, which coutries are you refering to? there are more than 10 countries here.
now to answer your first part of the question.
The american ideals of freedom and liberty are nothing more than garbage, why? do you see any freedom? i do, but what kind of freedom do i see? people have to pay tax they're not obliged to pay, women have to work when they don't have to, illegal sexual relationships inflate the country like no tomorrow, resulting in childs with no fathers, more homeless and alot of unemployeed people, and people who have no social lives, no families, are recruited into the army to invade other countries.
Women are being abused for marketting and prostitution, whores running loose, AIDS, and in the name of the freedom of women.
So much for the ideals of freedom and liberty, so much for them.
But you have yet to answer any of my questions, please before asking me any question, i have asked you 11 questions before, and i will respect you if you answered them.
if you have any bit of bravery please do answer them, unless you are like the rest of these people who have failed to provide me with a logical answer to why they believ that homosexuality is not a disorder, they have failed miserably, but i don't think you will allow yourself to fail, do you?
first i'll answer your second part of your question.
NON, ZERO, NADA, NULL, NOONE, just to make it clear, of the middle eastern governements implement Islam, just for your information, non of them, if it's in the governement's hands, they'll declare themselves athiests, and burn down Islam, but it is the people who are practicing Islam are the ones who keep the govies in line, besides when you say middle east, which coutries are you refering to? there are more than 10 countries here.
now to answer your first part of the question.
The american ideals of freedom and liberty are nothing more than garbage, why? do you see any freedom? i do, but what kind of freedom do i see? people have to pay tax they're not obliged to pay, women have to work when they don't have to, illegal sexual relationships inflate the country like no tomorrow, resulting in childs with no fathers, more homeless and alot of unemployeed people, and people who have no social lives, no families, are recruited into the army to invade other countries.
Women are being abused for marketting and prostitution, whores running loose, AIDS, and in the name of the freedom of women.
So much for the ideals of freedom and liberty, so much for them.
With freedom and liberty come personal responsibility. If someone chooses a path that is destructive to themselves then they have only themselves to answer to. It is not our governments job to support people or show them the direction to live their lives. There are politicians who are trying to and succeeding in changing that (and people who are letting them), but our founding documents that put forth true American ideals are not responsible for any of those things that you described.
If you want I can put up the founding documents of America and we can compare what they promise against the founding documents of one of your middle eastern countries that are predominately Islamic.
Here, I'll give you the first amendment to our Bill of Rights contained in our Constitution. I wonder if you can find an Islamic country that promises it's people these things...
----------------------------------------------
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
There is no answer to some of those questions. Those are questions to be posed to a person that follows a religion such as Christianity or Islam. I don't follow those religions. I'm not scared to answer any question. I just didn't see where answering those was relevant to anything that I was talking about.
1- What's your God's name? What does is matter what God's name is. I don't know. He has never told me what his name is. His name is irrelevant to anything he has to teach me. I can learn from a man on a street corner without ever speaking to him or learning his name. I can learn from watching people I don't even know. Are their names relevant to that lesson? Names are just labels put on things. God may not even have name. Does he need one?
2- What did he create? I know one thing he created. Me.
3- Did he send any prophets? I don't believe in prophets or magic. I told you this in my other statement. Just because some people get lucky in predicting what is going to happen does not make them a spokesperson for God.
4- If he did send prophets, what miracles did they do? what what was their names? I have never seen a miracle performed. So therefore, I'm not even sure they exist. And I said already I don't believe in prophets or men that can speak for God.
5- When was your religion made? When nature and the natural laws were made. Those are what I study and learn from. Those are what God has shown me and that I can for sure know are there from my own personal experience. But I don't consider myself a religious person. I am spiritual. Big difference. I call Universalist/Unitarian a religion in the loosest sense of the word. I'm really not even sure it is a religion sometimes as much as an organization of people who are tired of religion.
6- What will your God offer me if i worship him? I don't worship God. I respect him and love him for making me. And I know he loves me. And I know I'm no equal to him, but I don't think he expects me to worship him. That's really something I don't think God needs. Worship is a word that comes from religion anyways. It shows that authoritative mindset again. Religions require worship to keep people in line.
7- What kind of worship do i have to do to your God? None.
8- Is there any afterlife in your religion? what's there after death? I don't know. I've never died. Unless I was reincarnated, in which case I don't remember. I think the Jews have nailed this whole afterlife debate. Jews don't worry about the afterlife. They just live their lives as best they can and let God take care of the afterlife stuff.
9- Do you believe in hell or heaven? if yes what's the purpose of their existance? I don't believe in hell. The invention of hell can be traced back to a specific time and place in the human record. It's a completely man made idea. The same as heaven. God has not shown me that there is a heaven so I don't know if it exists. However, I have learned about higher dimensions and think those may be a place we go after we die. I have a hard time believing God put us here just to disappear. But, maybe he did. Who knows.
10- What are the limites of your religion? the "you can't do stuff" Well, why not leave people alone? I don't believe in trampling on other people's freedoms. And I expect the same in return.
11- Oh yeah, do you have any revelations from your God? like any texts that are very old like 2000++ years or something? Texts are things that man has written. And one man's revelation is not my revelation. If I have a revelation is mine personally. It is not another man's, for as soon as I share it, it has been trivialized. And how do I know that any man who says he has had a revelation is nothing more than a liar or stretching the truth? Revelations are personal if they exist at all.
12- i ran out of questions for now, but hopefull i will ask more later.
Therefore Homosexuality is a sin...sometimes!
I second that
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Sir Blasts Alot
Actually I think I understand where Reavo is coming from, and he's pretty consistent both religiously and politically. He wants a religion and society free of constraints, prejudices, and most of the bullshit we have to live with every day, where we can just be ourselves. He doesn't want anarchy.
Now for my concept of God. I think God is pretty laid back, not the fire and brimstone God of the Old Testament. Basically, God gave us life as a gift to enjoy, probably figured we'd all have a good time with it. Somewhere along the way some of us discovered power, and decided to play games with the rest of us. We threw ourselves out of the Garden on that one, and have been on the outside looking in ever since. Jesus was our shot at getting straight, but the money lenders and priesthood couldn't subscribe to a different way, so it was off to the crucifixion. The sweet thing is they stayed in power for a few years more, til the Romans, the same guys that gave us the crucifixion, sacked Jeruselum, destroyed the Temple, and spread the Jews throughout the Empire. Used the same tool that was used against Jesus against the Jeruselum priesthood and business class. Still, we didn't get the message....a little dense sometimes are we?
After that we spent years thinking up new and novel ways to kill each other in God's name. God must be extremely frustrated with us by now. Or maybe God has a unique sense of humor, and we're the comedy channel. "Let's see what those Yutzes on Earth are doing today in my name". Or maybe we're about to get that end of days redo...
Yes! Yes!!!
Someone understands me.
Actually, I think a lot of people do. I have a strong feeling that self determination is what is in every man's heart. I think some people are just too scared to take those steps towards their freedom.
LOL!!!
But we talk about Jesus all the time. I think Jesus was awesome. He seems to be one of the greatest spiritual teachers who ever lived.
Have you ever read Jefferson's Bible? It's pretty cool.
No, but I have been meaning too. It sounds really cool from what you have said.
Have you ever read Conversations with God? I know Unitarian Universalists have read that book based on some UU websites. It really coincides with your beliefs that I know of.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Another thing: "Don't let these people with their "hell/damnation"
and stories of ancient times and manuscripts scare you into a life of
guilt and loneliness. You are a good person and you deserve the love
and companionship that God put you on your path to pursue. You are a
welcome in my church and you are welcome in my community of forward
thinking folk."
The Christian faith, if that is what you were refering too, does NOT
support a 'life of guilt and loneliness'. In fact, it supports the
exact OPPOSITE! Ever hear of a Caring and joyous God? If not, then
you've been told the wrong thing.
When you stand before the throne of God on the judgement day, remember this post. Better yet, get saved.
If this is a denomination of Christinaity, then by all means DO NOT
FOLLOW IT! Do you read the bible? Here is a verse that bluntly destroy
this lie:
1 Corinthians 6:9:
9Do
What do you say about that, HUH?!you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do
not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor
adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders inherit the kingdom of God.
MMO migrant.
Another thing: "Don't let these people with their "hell/damnation"
and stories of ancient times and manuscripts scare you into a life of
guilt and loneliness. You are a good person and you deserve the love
and companionship that God put you on your path to pursue. You are a
welcome in my church and you are welcome in my community of forward
thinking folk."
The Christian faith, if that is what you were refering too, does NOT
support a 'life of guilt and loneliness'. In fact, it supports the
exact OPPOSITE! Ever hear of a Caring and joyous God? If not, then
you've been told the wrong thing.
When you stand before the throne of God on the judgement day, remember this post. Better yet, get saved.
If this is a denomination of Christinaity, then by all means DO NOT
FOLLOW IT! Do you read the bible? Here is a verse that bluntly destroy
this lie:
1 Corinthians 6:9:
9Do
What do you say about that, HUH?!you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do
not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor
adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders inherit the kingdom of God.
First of all learn what you are talking about. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Q. Adams, Paul Revere,
Ralph W. Emerson, T.S. Eliot, Alexander Graham Bell, and Isaac Newton were Non-denominational Deists. Do you know why they were Deists? Maybe because all the preachers came from Harvard, a deist school. Second of all Corinthians 6:9 says Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual Perverts.
AT least get what it says in your own book correct.
EDIT: Not all homosexuals are perverts. Heterosexuals can be perverts too, proving your point wrong.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
Another thing: "Don't let these people with their "hell/damnation" and stories of ancient times and manuscripts scare you into a life of guilt and loneliness. You are a good person and you deserve the love and companionship that God put you on your path to pursue. You are a welcome in my church and you are welcome in my community of forward thinking folk."
The Christian faith, if that is what you were refering too, does NOT support a 'life of guilt and loneliness'. In fact, it supports the exact OPPOSITE! Ever hear of a Caring and joyous God? If not, then you've been told the wrong thing.
When you stand before the throne of God on the judgement day, remember this post. Better yet, get saved.
If this is a denomination of Christinaity, then by all means DO NOT FOLLOW IT! Do you read the bible? Here is a verse that bluntly destroy this lie:
1 Corinthians 6:9:
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders inherit the kingdom of God.
What do you say about that, HUH?!You better go over to Wikipedia and tell them they are wrong about Jefferson then. Because their website says that Jefferson was a Unitarian.
Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia
--------------------------------------
Arguing over the opinions of famous people from history is hard to do. Just from what you read on wikipedia or what you learned in 8th grade, you cannot say you know FOR A FACT??!!!!!#@!$#!! what these people thought about life.
"Yes it does. "If you are a
homosexual you go to hell. If you are a renouncer of the Lord you go to
hell. If you do anything that it forbids you to do in the Bible you go
to hell." Does this not seem like a religion supporting a life of
guilt and loneliness? Or are you to blind and brainwashed to realize
this?"
You aren't right here either. The Bible says that all you need to do is accept the Lord and you will be saved from Hell. If you accept the Lord and you are a homosexual, you will not goto Hell. Granted, if you know the Lord and act in the ways Jesus acted, you probably won't be living a life like that. Regardless, if you truly accept the Lord you will be saved. Jesus hung out with prostitutes, poor people, and all the other outcasts during his day. When Jesus died he took the punishment for all our sins, so if you accept his gift then all of your sins (whether it is homosexual acts or some Old Testament law) are nullified.
This hardly seems like an approach that supports a life of guilt and loneliness, and if you truly believe that I feel sorry for your ignorance.
Lastly you decided to flame him for his "blooper" in "misquoting" the Bible. If you would have taken a little bit of time (or maybe asked around for some common sense) you might have found out that there are multitudes of different translations of the Bible. His quote is accurate from the New International Translation of the Bible. You could take a translation from King James or Darby or any of the other english translations and say "W T F MANG YOU QUOTE RONG RTARD!!!" but then he could just pull out his version and you would have to shut your mouth.
But like I said before flames (even this one) are pretty dumb, but don't make them look even worse by not thinking before you type.
damns homosexuals to hell by using one translation of the bible as a
centerpiece, that concept is changed to how he sees it. MarleVVLL used
one word from his translation of the bible to damn all homosexuals to
hell. Therefore I can and will use another word from a different bible
to debate his argument. And if you think that people in a forum have
to sit and read the shit that he dishes out and do nothing to argue him
then I hope the door doesn't hit you in the ass on your way out of this
forum.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
See that brick wall?
Go bang your head against it.
Keep repeating till you cant post this crap anymore.
Lath
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Posts on a gaming forum, about religion and gays, does not top my lists of important things. Washing my car seems more pressing and important than any of these ignorant posts.
Now that you know, are you glad?
Lath
I'm sorry guys, but this is too much.
Every 2nd thread is one started by you guys to preach either your your political, religious, or social agendas. It's getting to the point of spam.
And it's all hypocritical because you know if anyone else was trying to promote their religion like this, you would come in shouting "quit trying to force your beliefs on us".
You've gone from having actual discussions to trolling, spamming, and flame-baiting.
Stop trying to influence people and turn them into carbon copies of, well, you.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Oh and by the way, we know this thread was just a way for you to promote your religion.
Regarding the actual title, I can name 10 faiths that believe it IS a sin. Probably a dozen more that believe sodomy is a sin.
Your church may be great for you, but the rest of your society still thinks you're going to hell.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000