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Homosexuality IS NOT a sin.
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Who Wins?
Lath
That's your level ?
Didn't we convert you when we saved your arse from Sadam? If not, we should have- cause you would already be in paradise if it wasnt for us.
Lath
Agnostics are welcome in my church as well. If you go to the website you will learn that we don't stop people at the door to question their beliefs. We encourage discussion and the exchange of ideas and philosophies.
So you can talk about your agnostic beliefs here if you'd like. Or if you want to start your own topic about it go ahead. But you're more than welcome to talk about them here. I won't put you down at all for them.
is satanism accepted in your church?
defiant
How is loving someone, regardless of the gender..a sin? Honestly.
People say it's not natural.
Than being straight is NOT natural.
Loving someone is a feeling. That's it, that's all. A sexual attraction to another human! Not the bloody gender! The person, their soul and personality.
Bah.. Some people need to open their minds alittle more and get over the fact that yes, NO MATTER what you do, there WILL ALWAYS be homosexuals. Why? Because they love someone of the same gender. Big deal...
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
During my 37 years on the planet it has become increasingly obvious to me that those who protest the loudest about homosexuality are usually doing so because they have such feelings themselves. Due to their upbringing or social setting they cannot/will not handle these feelings and so attach anger and hatred towards them and the people who embody it.
I'll give a personal story/parallel about this to illustrate. An ex-girlfriend of mine was incredibly anti-porn/female nudity, to the point where it was pretty ridiculous. Years later, it turns out she is Bi-sexual and couldnt handle female nudity, not because it was wrong, but because of the 'shame' it made her feel and her inability to cope with the emotions viewing naked women aroused.
Also she was raised in an environment where such leanings were taught as very 'wrong'. It made her angry, bitter and very vicious when it came to nude/partially dressed women in any situation.
I still know this woman, who has now come to terms with her sexuality and embraced it, and lives a much happier life for it.
I hope some of you get the help you obviously deserve, because some of the comments and attitudes in this thread mirror her actions and words completely.
Peace
Tam
I already did, read my answers to YOUR answers, i compared Islam with your way, see the difference and compare it.
But, you have failed to prove to me that your religion is better than mine, so therefore, Islam is better than your religion, because your religion can answer non of my questions.
You didn't prove anything. You can't point to a book of tales as your proof.
I went back and read what Reavo wrote to you. Him saying prove it is the end all of your discussion with him. You can't prove it. There is absolutely no tangible proof you have that your religion is the one everyone is to follow. And you making such an accusation shows the effects that your religion has on people.
You can't force feed belief to someone. So get over yourself and your religious convictions.
The simplest reply to prove it,is and always will be, prove that it's not.
Honestly, you guys say prove that heaven exsists. I say prove that it doesn't. It doesn't matter what people that believe in heaven or paradise say, you will never agree with us, therefore the entire argument is pointless because most of the people that claim to be open minded but also don't believe are not open minded. They are just as closed minded as the same percentage of the people that do believe. The open minded individuals have no need to argue the topic of religion anymore because they agree that neither one can prove anything and say it doesn't matter.
Ahahaha...Ahahaha.
Wait, wait. I got it. So unless you feel comfortable looking at gay porn, surely you yourself are a homosexual!
Or no, unless you don't have a problem with animated kiddie porn(I say animated because if I don't, someone will take this argument in another direction), you yourself must be a pedophile!
*shakes head*
Common sense is no longer common...
I am more inclined to believe that is more the case.
As someone's avatar quote says (roughly) "Only man could create a God who hates all the same people they do," and I think that's about spot on.
For religion to 'exist', the onus, or the burden of proof, is on the Believer to prove that God exists. No one has done that yet, and I doubt anyone ever will. And thus, in my opinion, religion is just a concept used by man to create a doctrine by which to quell and control the gullible masses.
And that in turn leads to Faith. Religious human beings on average need to feel worthwhile, need to feel needed and to have a purpose. They need to feel that they are not 100% in control of their destiny but they are infact trying to live up to the expectations of their Greater power.
This takes the burden of existence off of the Believer. If their life goes to shit, they have something greater to believe in to put their life back on track. And when things do eventually sort themselves out, they thank God for giving them guidance, thus alleviating the need to take direct and complete control of their life and what happens within it.
That's the way I look at religion. Just me. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I do not want to hear about your great Saviour who is going to come down in some almighty Rapture and wisk away the Believers.
If anything, I want to hear your concept of proof of God. And save me the "He gave us the Bible" bullshit.
In short, I believe Religion only exists to fill the void that people do not want to look deep into themselves to find; they find it much easier to look 'out' to find it. An Almighty presence way beyond us, out there, overlooking and controlling us. When in my opinion the greatest power lies within the self, in your brain, in your heart, in your connection to a likeminded person.
I'd love to find the 'off switch' for humankind's absolute need for religion. The world would be such a better place if religion was wiped out entirely, and people started to take control of their lives and how they associate with their neighbours.
The biggest barrier to world peace, in my opinion of course, is religion. Well, that and human nature *grin*.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
Well, since some of you enjoy preaching so much, I figured I'd join in the fun.
This from CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY (www.carm.org)
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." , "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?
Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.
I underlined a couple things to make it easier to read for the "Godless sodomites" as Stephen Colbert has been known to say.
Oh and don't worry, there's PLENTY more where that came from.
Edit: also the board is doing a weird thing where it repeats my post, lol.
I underlined a couple things to make it easier to read for the "Godless sodomites" as Stephen Colbert has been known to say.
Oh and don't worry, there's PLENTY more where that came from.
Edit: also the board is doing a weird thing where it repeats my post, lol.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Aang
Several people have been using the Bible as a reference to their arguments. Heres a bit of a stopgap for you, there are two cases where a homosexual relationship was described in approving detail. The love story between Jonathan and David, and of Ruth and Naomi.
Additionally, if we were to take the bible literally we would be forced to acknowledge that:
Women should not reveal their face in public and that her husband owns her - Genesis and Corinthians
The pangs of childbirth are a punishment from god and should not be lessened through medication - Genesis and Romans
Women additionally are to be silent at all time in public and in church, and should not teach men in any form, violators should be beaten - Romans and Corinthians
Christians and all others who could should abstain from sex, no exceptions to this one, not even within the confines of marriage - Romans
Slavery, especcially of the sons of Nod (still interpreted to refer to those of African descent), is right - Romans
eating any kind of seafood other than fish, or anything with hooves is forbidden, say bye to that pork loin, and especcially the shrimp - Leviticus
anyone who charges any kind of interest on a loan are to be killed - Cant find the reference, ill be back with it
Want to continue? I can keep up the flow of hypocracy if you so desire. If you wish to use the Bible as a source for your arguments, be prepared to ackowledge ALL of what it says, not just the parts that support what you want to say. Unless you are the kind of person willing to force his wife to wear a veil in public, beats her if she speaks up, and just sent your slave out to stock up ammunition for your killing spree at the local banks, I suggest the bible references get dropped.
And possibly worst of all, since when has a message of love, forgiveness and compassion for ALL become love for a few, bare tolerance of many, and hatred and bigotry towards those who do not live up to your standards. The message of christ has been warped, and I as a man who has long lost his faith has to stand here and remind you of what it really means.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Ahahaha...Ahahaha.
Wait, wait. I got it. So unless you feel comfortable looking at gay porn, surely you yourself are a homosexual!
Or no, unless you don't have a problem with animated kiddie porn(I say animated because if I don't, someone will take this argument in another direction), you yourself must be a pedophile!
*shakes head*
Common sense is no longer common...
Where in my post did i mention Gay Porn?
I suggest you read it again... also that was only one of many people in my life i have known who have been 'aggressively' anti-homosexual, and ultimately it has transpired that it was because they were gay/bi themselves and were unable to deal with their feelings.
Common sense? Look to yourself for dodging the reality of what posted.
Tam
There is no such thing as SIN.
Therefor homosexuality is not a sin.
Nothing is a sin.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Let them believe in talking burning bushes, people walking over water, snakes that turn into staves and ofcourse, homosexualty is a sin because some guy a few thousand years ago wrote that down.
I already did, read my answers to YOUR answers, i compared Islam with your way, see the difference and compare it.
But, you have failed to prove to me that your religion is better than mine, so therefore, Islam is better than your religion, because your religion can answer non of my questions.
You didn't prove anything. You can't point to a book of tales as your proof.
I went back and read what Reavo wrote to you. Him saying prove it is the end all of your discussion with him. You can't prove it. There is absolutely no tangible proof you have that your religion is the one everyone is to follow. And you making such an accusation shows the effects that your religion has on people.
You can't force feed belief to someone. So get over yourself and your religious convictions.
The simplest reply to prove it,is and always will be, prove that it's not.
Honestly, you guys say prove that heaven exsists. I say prove that it doesn't. It doesn't matter what people that believe in heaven or paradise say, you will never agree with us, therefore the entire argument is pointless because most of the people that claim to be open minded but also don't believe are not open minded. They are just as closed minded as the same percentage of the people that do believe. The open minded individuals have no need to argue the topic of religion anymore because they agree that neither one can prove anything and say it doesn't matter.
that is rediculous. I can say right here and now that I can fly with magical powers, and its true untill someone proves it wrong, which is impossible.
Saying that "homosexuality is not a sin" is all well and good, but at least qualify it to say that "for my religiion, homosexuality is not a sin" then I will take you seriously, because in my religion(christianity) it is specifically stated that it IS a sin. Now, does that mean that we should not greet them with open arms, and love and accept them? Of course not, It is not our place to judge, only to reinforce and educate.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Gameloading, I have many Gay friends, I support Gay people and their right to equality, i dont understand your response to my post... I was simply pointing out that sometimes the aggressive anti-gay haters have deep down problems, very often that they have emotions/feelings they cant/refuse to acknowledge.
The scenario i highlighted in my post happens more times than most realise.
Please explain your post...
Tam
Gameloading, I have many Gay friends, I support Gay people and their right to equality, i dont understand your response to my post... I was simply pointing out that sometimes the aggressive anti-gay haters have deep down problems, very often that they have emotions/feelings they cant/refuse to acknowledge.
The scenario i highlighted in my post happens more times than most realise.
Please explain your post...
Tam
That it is wrong to say that the majority of people that defend homosexuals have homosexual feelings themself. many, many people stand her for equal rights. its really the same thing as saying the majority of people protesting against racism is black. it COULD be possible, but its very unlikely.
Please re-read my post... you have taken it completely the wrong way.
Im saying that sometimes the most aggressive anti-gay protesters are the ones who have issues, not those who support gay people. I even supplied a personal example, i thought it was pretty clear waht i was saying.
Maybe you just skimmed the post and jumped to a conclusion.
Were on the same side you noodle :P
Tam
Please read my post a little while back, many things are called sins in the christian religion, many of these have no place whatsoever in our society.
Now, you have a choice, you can admit that not everything in the bible is to be taken as fact which would cast serious doubt on the validity of homosexuality being a sin, or you can declare certain other things the bible calls for to be fact as well, some of which are considered to be horrendous practices in today's society. You cannot pick and choose what you would like to believe, religous tomes are not a salad bar.
Additionally, accepting people means loving them for who they are, not what they might be if you "reeducate" them. Feeling the need for such education is judgement.
Heres a question for you, what is more important to you as a Christian? The words and message of your savior, or the words of the men who came after, some of whom sought power more than anything else. They all too often contradict each other. For example, the letter of Saint Paul to the Romans, which is the main source against homosexuality, also at the same time calls for various outrageous abuses against women that very few are willing to even contemplate, and certainly do not fit in with Christ's message.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway