(The Weapons and Armor crafting will be from Players, for Players. And the best Crafting stuff will come from raiding the enemy's capitol(s), this is already stated by the Devs)
Tradreskills enforcements topped with RvR enforcement? As long as this "best" is only for PvP...but if it is a best overall, you can be sure to...
/unsigned me from the whole game.
Nah, you don't HAVE to skill your Tradeskills.
But if you DO, then the best Materials will be gained by raiding the enemy Capitol.
And since WAR's PvP will feature Tanking, Supporting, Healing, Damage Dealing and CCing... the equipment requirements for both PvP and PvE should be rather similar.
(In WoW for example, as Caster (especially healer) you had to have much Int and Spirit in PvE, but for PvP you needed Stamina more than anything because everyone would head right after you. In WAR, Skills will be in place which "encourage" the enemies to attack your Tank first, since they'll do MUCH less damage against everyone else, so tanking in PvP IS POSSIBLE in WAR. Thus, even in PvP, with a good tank at your side you can concentrate on Int and Stamina, to speak in WoW terms).
So what does that mean? The BEST Stuff will come from raiding the enemies Capitol. In order to really "max out" your char, you'll need to PvP.
Doesn't sound like it's the game for you. (But then again, WoW sounds just perfect for you anyway)
If you are PvE person PvP person what difference does it make? Does it matter if the people you are killing are player controlled or computer controlled?
Yes, the success rate matter. If we fight players all the time, then 50% failure rate is normal, and this is way too much for a RPG that I am supposed to play on the long term. Constant, rampant defeats isn't FUN in a RPG, which is a game based on progression...
In this game there is no connection between enemies. You dont speak to them, they dont speak to you. A PvE person is mostly afraid of (what I've learned so far) being treated bad by PvP people. But this won't be an issue here.
I don't care about talking. I care about the % of success, and even if I would somehow be good, I would fail at least 25% of the time against players...this is too much.
I just think that if peple could drop the tence, and accept the fact you can fully live on PvP / RvR alone, they'd be much more happy. If you're a PvE person the fact still stand, YOU LOVE TO KILL STUFF! This is the game for you who love to kill stuff.
But the problem is intact. If I only do PvE stuff, I can't do PvE as good as someone who PvP/RvR/Raid. The problem is total, and intact. PvE uberness is what matter to someone like me. Each tiny extra % matter a lot...I could farm a dungeon for months to get a few %. Now, if I am doomed to been subpar in PvE (doesn,t care to be subpar in PvP), then I have no motivation.
I think that the effort in standard RvR quests or PvE quests in this game will be great and variating for any PvE or PvP person alone. And just as forgiving for the other.
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
But the problem is intact. If I only do PvE stuff, I can't do PvE as good as someone who PvP/RvR/Raid. The problem is total, and intact. PvE uberness is what matter to someone like me. Each tiny extra % matter a lot...I could farm a dungeon for months to get a few %. Now, if I am doomed to been subpar in PvE (doesn,t care to be subpar in PvP), then I have no motivation.
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
YES.
This game is not MEANT TO ONLY PVE. Got that?
This game isn't for you, go on. Try...well I dunno, Last Chaos or another Asiagrinder...
You won't ever be as good by pure PvEing in WAR.
Pure PvP Players WILL BE BETTER EQUIPPED THAN YOU!
No need to discuss this further, just ignore WAR and search on.
Warhammer is basicly a RvR / PVP game of what ive read and seen with the interviews of that funny guy
Of course you need level's to be able to compete in the high end battlegrounds when you fight for "terrotority" <- if its spelled wrong then correct me.
But still basicly i believed that Warhammer Online is made for RVR-PVP
Warhammer is basicly a RvR / PVP game of what ive read and seen with the interviews of that funny guy
Of course you need level's to be able to compete in the high end battlegrounds when you fight for "terrotority" <- if its spelled wrong then correct me.
But still basicly i believed that Warhammer Online is made for RVR-PVP
If you are PvE person PvP person what difference does it make? Does it matter if the people you are killing are player controlled or computer controlled?
Yes, the success rate matter. If we fight players all the time, then 50% failure rate is normal, and this is way too much for a RPG that I am supposed to play on the long term. Constant, rampant defeats isn't FUN in a RPG, which is a game based on progression...
In this game there is no connection between enemies. You dont speak to them, they dont speak to you. A PvE person is mostly afraid of (what I've learned so far) being treated bad by PvP people. But this won't be an issue here.
I don't care about talking. I care about the % of success, and even if I would somehow be good, I would fail at least 25% of the time against players...this is too much.
I just think that if peple could drop the tence, and accept the fact you can fully live on PvP / RvR alone, they'd be much more happy. If you're a PvE person the fact still stand, YOU LOVE TO KILL STUFF! This is the game for you who love to kill stuff.
But the problem is intact. If I only do PvE stuff, I can't do PvE as good as someone who PvP/RvR/Raid. The problem is total, and intact. PvE uberness is what matter to someone like me. Each tiny extra % matter a lot...I could farm a dungeon for months to get a few %. Now, if I am doomed to been subpar in PvE (doesn,t care to be subpar in PvP), then I have no motivation.
I think that the effort in standard RvR quests or PvE quests in this game will be great and variating for any PvE or PvP person alone. And just as forgiving for the other.
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
So the basic problem for you is, fear of a challenge. Yet why does your sig say "Challenges are a side order for successfull RPGs" ?
Because YOU might get after in EXP compared to other people? Does other people really matter that much to you anyway?
It is inevitable, to progress in a MMORPG. No matter what you do, you still get better.
If you have fun on the way does it matter if you know others might grow stronger than you faster? Besides we know nothing about how EXP is devided and works by this time, that we won't know untill we've played it ourselves. But so far I think you should just wait and try the game when it comes. I think most of your concearns are just in your head... well I definitly want to hear your story when you have tried the game (and me too)
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Remember, even if you exclusively do only the PVE part of the game, you're still contributing to the overall RvR conflict. But if you only PVE, you're going to be extremely limited as to where you can go, because in basic terms, as you level the smaller the PVE areas get. Still, even the hardcore PvPers will appreciate everything that the PVE'ers do to further the effort. My worry is that PVEers will be the ones who endlessly re-roll and will have a tough time getting to those higher levels.
As far as the end game, I might be wrong here, but it seems to me that it will be player-driven. The game is about conflict. It's not about endless NPC raids. The results of these conflicts will dictate the end-game - and since these conflicts involve real people instead of NPC's, the eventual results will always vary from day to day and server to server.
As far as the end game, I might be wrong here, but it seems to me that it will be player-driven. The game is about conflict. It's not about endless NPC raids. The results of these conflicts will dictate the end-game - and since these conflicts involve real people instead of NPC's, the eventual results will always vary from day to day and server to server.
The PvP part, definately.
Players fight on the frontiers, Zones switch their Owners, PvP Scenarios Open up and Close down accordingly. Your Race's Leader might get captured so you have to rescue him, Caravans maybe have to be protected and so on and so forth.
But the PvE Part will be pretty static nevertheless IMO.
Maybe some PvE Instances will only be playable when your Side owns the Zone or something, but other than that...
Correct me if I'm wrong, Anofayle, but it seems to me that you are trying to hold on to this game as long as you can. It's obvious that you love the Warhammer world as well as PvE, but WAR is not going to be PvE centric. WAR is a game designed for RvR combat as stated numerous times by the developers. It was never intended to be a PvE centric game, but that isn't to say that the PvE that is going to be implemented won't be fun and entertaining. As kraiden and others have stated, the PvE that is in the game will also contribute to the RvR scenario, not just simply your gear or accomplishments. I think that is it obvious to you that this game isn't for you, but you really wish it was. And please, correct me if I'm wrong.
The only problem i've had with PVP based games is you get little elitest kiddies going round corpse camping and insulting everyone, just ruiend the game for me. The min i see any of that i just quit the game, only game i never saw it in was SWG.
Lol..... you cant name one game with PVP that doesnt have shit talking, and I played SWG, dont know how long you played but I highly doubt you didnt run into any assholes. If you want your pvp to be candy coating and friendly dont play PVP games.
That's what the Devs said, that's what they're heading for.
The PvE Part will, in conclusion, exist so when you're feeling tired, and just want to do something meaningful without the thrill of PvP, you can do it.
There are only 6 high end dungeons planned for release AFAIK (1 for each race).
The Best Loot will come from the RvR Campaign, when sacking the enemy city, same with the best Crafting Materials.
(Though they won't be so insanely stronger than other stuff, to prevent a Gear-Centric PvP)
To compare the 6 Dungeons with another Number: Mythic is planning for 150+ different PvP Scenarios.
So really don't expect anything great from the Endgame-PvE Part. Or better said: Don't expect anything large in the Endgame PvE Part, because the small things Mythic will add for Endgame PvE, will be great anyway, but there won't be much of it.
To repeat the first rule of WAR: If you don't like PvP, don't play WAR. If do like PvP however, you'll have an absolute Blast playing WAR.
Hmm sorry to burst your bubble here, as it appears that you at least have some info on the game, but have it wrong.
That's not what the devs have said, not even close, and you're doing the game way more harm than good by putting that crapolla out there. What they've said is that they believe that the PvP content in WAR will be so enjoyable that they hope players that are choosing to level up via PvE only will eventually give the PvP content a try by the time they reach tier 4. People really should quit with this childish anti PvE macho BS. They've said that one can level up via PvP only. They've said that the gear will be relatively equal regardless of the style which it was obtained. So if you're a rabid PvPer, and plan on doing only that, the PvE content won't affect you in any way. Get over it already. Having PvE in the game isn't a threat to your manhood. Alright?
We have really no idea yet how many tier 4 dungeons there will be yet, and so far we have no idea what other PvE content there's going to be that's not instanced either. Think about what you said though, even if the 6 number is right. that's 6 PvE encounters for tier 4 players ( I'm thinking of a very popular game that gets bashed by the PvP only lamers as being only "a PvE game", and I do believe that's more high end raid content that it had at release).
This one for each race thing? False. At most what one could speculate on at this point is that there's going to 3 high end per side. They aren't making any dungeons race exclusive as far as we know at this point (but it's very highly unlikely), the most they may do is make some faction exclusive, although in this last newsletter the dungeon described can be accessed by both factions.
The 80%PvP/20%PvE by tier 4 number that keeps getting bandied about has to do with zone PvP area and PvE area splits, as in how much space is designated for that style exclusively. So even with that split in size at tier 4, they can still pack a lot of PvE instanced content into the 20% area. The game is being designed so that one can level up via PvP or PvE exclusively, and keep enjoying the game at the highest tier as well regardless of what style one prefers.
You did manage to get one thing right though, well partially right anyway. Yes it's been said that the best loot and such will come from the RvR objective of capturing the enemies city. RvR in WAR doesn't just mean PvP though. It's been made clear right from the start that the PvE content will be part of the RvR campaigns as well. There's never been anything said about the final stages of sacking the enemies city being a PvP exclusive thing either. There very well may be lots of PvE objectives, for those that prefer that style of play, that can be done to help in the war effort.
This "first rule of WAR" that you're spouting off is pure bullocks. By spouting it off as fact, you're doing the game much more harm than good.
If there is actually a "first rule of WAR", then it's the reminder that's up on the wall of one of the high up people's offices. "Fun you F....rs!"
That's what the Devs said, that's what they're heading for.
The PvE Part will, in conclusion, exist so when you're feeling tired, and just want to do something meaningful without the thrill of PvP, you can do it.
There are only 6 high end dungeons planned for release AFAIK (1 for each race).
The Best Loot will come from the RvR Campaign, when sacking the enemy city, same with the best Crafting Materials.
(Though they won't be so insanely stronger than other stuff, to prevent a Gear-Centric PvP)
To compare the 6 Dungeons with another Number: Mythic is planning for 150+ different PvP Scenarios.
So really don't expect anything great from the Endgame-PvE Part. Or better said: Don't expect anything large in the Endgame PvE Part, because the small things Mythic will add for Endgame PvE, will be great anyway, but there won't be much of it.
To repeat the first rule of WAR: If you don't like PvP, don't play WAR. If do like PvP however, you'll have an absolute Blast playing WAR.
Then I guess I will just put it aside, which is a shame.
I am a Warhammer fan after all. And as most fans of the Warhammer franchise, I am not PvP-realtime driven, nor was I used to in this franchise.
And as I said, as long as PvE-acquired loot is the best for PvE combat, doesn't care if I miss on bleeding edges PvP procs that work only against players. As long as I could do it, no matter how small % of the content, and master it, totally, without PvP or raiding.
As to judging if 5%, 15%, 20% of the content is enough for me, that is something a dev should let me decide by myself...as long as the path to the end, ultimate PvE ends, is completely open and I wouldn't feel shafted by PvPers.
Again, if this is what they are doing, I won't buy WAR, and this is a shame. It is not like I am asking for much. I am only asking that the tiny PvE part lead to total and complete mastery of PvE combats without the needs of raiding or PvPing...doesn't care if I miss whatever PvP extra bonus you can only get while PvPing...as long as it has only impacts in PvP.
Oh well, next game.
Anofalye, don't go by what some of these people are saying here. They're wayyyyy of base. They've taken bits and pieces of info and patched it together all wrong so as to make the game seem like it's theirs and theirs alone. Go have a look around at the main warhammer site, or better yet some of the real fansites for dev quotes and interviews. There's going to be plenty of PvE content in this game, and plenty of it to do at the highest levels as well. Mythic isn't stupid. They're not putting all this effort and all these resources into making a game for the small niche of PvP only people out there. The people that will be enjoying this game to it's fullest are the people, like myself, that enjoy PvP and PvE equally imo, because this looks to be the game that gets both right.
Anofalye, don't go by what some of these people are saying here. They're wayyyyy of base. They've taken bits and pieces of info and patched it together all wrong so as to make the game seem like it's theirs and theirs alone. Go have a look around at the main warhammer site, or better yet some of the real fansites for dev quotes and interviews. There's going to be plenty of PvE content in this game, and plenty of it to do at the highest levels as well. Mythic isn't stupid. They're not putting all this effort and all these resources into making a game for the small niche of PvP only people out there. The people that will be enjoying this game to it's fullest are the people, like myself, that enjoy PvP and PvE equally imo, because this looks to be the game that gets both right.
Well said. There are certain aspects of the game that people are looking forward to, but in the end, the successful players/guilds will be the ones that are diverse. I don't think people who are only into PVE will be totally disappointed, because many of the things they do will still go toward the RvR part of the game. By the same token, PvPers will certainly appreciate (and hopefully, support) everything the PVEers are doing.
I'm sure there will be an open beta or stress test that will allow people to see for themselves.
I'm bored of all those PvE centric games so i have high hopes on WAR. At least there will be no people that flame you on the official forums, for ganking them while they where on a quest.
Like someone stated before if you dislike PvP, stay away from WAR. You will be disappointed by the lack of PvE content.
Look, WAR is not a PVP game; it is an RvR game and their is a difference. RvR encompasses both PvP and PvE. If you go out and kill other players you aid your realm in RvR. If you go out and kill NPCs you aid your realm in RvR.
WAR will have great content for both types of players.
To the OP: I think the real question is wether you want balanced PvP and PvE (there will be), or wether you want tiered PvE raid dungeons where you have to finish one dungeon to get the equipment to survive the next (there won't be).
In either case you should give the game a try, Mythic is a great company and if WAR lives up to the legacy of DaoC, this will be a fun game no matter what type of player you are.
Theres a seperation between pve pvp and RVR though, I suggest playing daoc to figure this out.
your motivation is never to sit in a dungeon and farm bearpaws until you have enough to create the bear totem, so you can fight the BIG BEAR who drops phat epic lewtz that are bigger and better than anything anyone else in the game has.
infact, if its like daoc, there IS NO great gear. everything is the same quality just seperate stats, and most items will be easily attainable.
If you just like "pve" you wont have a provlem adapting.
If you like DOMINANCE thru pve you will be highly disappointed and unsatisfied playing an rvr based game.
if you like to gank? you wont like this game as you can not gank.
if you like to rvr.... you will like this rvr game.
hm, you want PvE endgame but you dont want raiding thats like a contradiction of sorts. you cant have one without the other sadly. sure, maybe one day someone will develop an evolving AI that will create dynamic scenarios for a dynamic world. But that will take a lot of design and will be way too risky for a mainstream game like WAR '08. what other types of endgame did you have in mind?
If you want true dynamic experiences then you should be open to PvP in WAR. I dont understand why people would close their minds to it. i mean whats the worse that can happen? You obviously cant always win because you're fighting a human opponent but you cant be camped or griefed plus they separate the uber warriors from the newbies. I dont get it are carebears afraid of player competition?
It's going to be nice clean RvR and as far as we all know thats the endgame. PvP provides rich opportunities for endless gameplay.
Plus, Paul already said it makes no sense for a person to have some nice ability that doesnt work the same in both PvE/PvP. so throw out your desires for pvpers bonuses to only work in PvP.
honestly you're gonna be missing out on over 50%+ of the game content if you jsut wanna close the door on half the game. dont complain because you're unwilling to change. in any case I'm sure they might give you carebears some dungeons to do and heck, even us pvpers might wanna do it every so often. but rest assure, it wont be like those PvE driven games. you're gonna see way less people doing any sort of endgame PvE content. the only reason ppl ever farm repititious PvE endgame content is for loot. but give ppl a better way to get rewards via non-repititous methods I promise you the majority will choose that option
I love PvP. PvE is too repetative in ANY game for me to like it. As for the "Kiddies" all I can say is...All's fair in love and WAR. Or at least that's the way I'd love to see it. Some corpse camps you? Get a buddy and do it 20 fold back to him. I don't get upset when I die, it's part of the game, moreso than when you're alive imo. If you die, brush of the dirt from your dirtnapping and go back and get some revenge I've never complained about someone corpse-camping, and never will. I never did like any rules against corpse camping either, even if it's to "protect" me. As Midgard in DAoC you get killed over and over by albs and hibs, it's part of the game, plain and simple.
Why does every single thread that discusses PvP and PvE inevitably degrade into childish insults like 'carebear' getting tossed about, and people posting in a tone that tries to get across that they think they're more manly or daring because they prefer to PvP all the time. If your masculinity is based on what you do in a computer game, and if you feel so threatened by people that don't share you taste that you have to lash out and insult them, then frankly you have some real issues. It might just be time to back away from the keyboard and go deal with them.
Isn't it getting old by now? Let people play the way they want to play, and leave them alone about it.
Why does every single thread that discusses PvP and PvE inevitably degrade into childish insults like 'carebear' getting tossed about...
hm, me thinks you did not read this thread at all otherwise u would not have missed the OP saying this:
Originally posted by Anofalye .... PS: All I ever ask, was that the best carebears, are carebears...(excluding raiding and crafting enforcements which are lames gameplays and shouldn't be enforced on interesting gameplays)
So he called himself a carebear anyway. plus we send PMs to each other i the past so I would not think he'd get offended. I hope he gets a rich PvE experience because thats more options for all of us. I just wanted to know what type of other endgame he might desire assuming they dont have the tech for an advanced AI that can generate dynamic content / quests.
So no reason to get rilled up about a term often used to refer to PvE'ers. I think he told me his SG in CoH is called "Carebears" so i dont understand how I can insult him + not to mention we converse fairly often he writes good posts always but like me he hates to raid
[edit] so im thinking maybe he sould give pvp in WAR a try because he might like it assuming the things he hated bout pvp dont exist in it.
I find it strange, that u are a warhammer franchise fan and werent expecting a PvP game.... since Warhammer (table top) from which this game is taken is all about PvP, and what's the point in the being in a WAR and being able to avoid it altogether.
Why does every single thread that discusses PvP and PvE inevitably degrade into childish insults like 'carebear' getting tossed about, and people posting in a tone that tries to get across that they think they're more manly or daring because they prefer to PvP all the time. If your masculinity is based on what you do in a computer game, and if you feel so threatened by people that don't share you taste that you have to lash out and insult them, then frankly you have some real issues. It might just be time to back away from the keyboard and go deal with them. Isn't it getting old by now? Let people play the way they want to play, and leave them alone about it.
Im not an expert on mmorpg communities, but from reading various forums , talking to every player i get the chance to and just being around for 15 years of gaming I have come up with this. Carebears vs pvpers daoc was never really a debate, just mild hostility. The pvpers in your guild left you alone if you where a carebear but the carebears felt slighted if you never helped them complete their dragon raids/dungeon quest ect ect. But the two got along and there was no outright hostilitty. WORLD OF WARCRAFT however pushed this to a whole new level as one was empowered and the otherone was an afterthought. now with war on the horizon the pve focused player looks at the "tables being turned" in another game and a whole fight erupts about it. Guys, theres no need to argue about it cant we all just hold hands and sing "all you need it love"
The biggest reason for the lack of open hostility between the PvP and PvE players in DAoC was the PvE players were the majority of crafters. Once Alchemy and Spellcrafting entered the game, that was the best way to min/max your PvP character. As such, most of the PvPers saw this and were nice to the PvEers. The PvEers were also the ones who were able to repair the keep and relic keep doors the most efficiently as well as had the largest stash of money. In DAoC, they really did strike a good balance between both worlds until they released TOA and forced the PvPers into having to PvE to compete.
Comments
Tradreskills enforcements topped with RvR enforcement? As long as this "best" is only for PvP...but if it is a best overall, you can be sure to...
/unsigned me from the whole game.
Nah, you don't HAVE to skill your Tradeskills.
But if you DO, then the best Materials will be gained by raiding the enemy Capitol.
And since WAR's PvP will feature Tanking, Supporting, Healing, Damage Dealing and CCing... the equipment requirements for both PvP and PvE should be rather similar.
(In WoW for example, as Caster (especially healer) you had to have much Int and Spirit in PvE, but for PvP you needed Stamina more than anything because everyone would head right after you. In WAR, Skills will be in place which "encourage" the enemies to attack your Tank first, since they'll do MUCH less damage against everyone else, so tanking in PvP IS POSSIBLE in WAR. Thus, even in PvP, with a good tank at your side you can concentrate on Int and Stamina, to speak in WoW terms).
So what does that mean? The BEST Stuff will come from raiding the enemies Capitol. In order to really "max out" your char, you'll need to PvP.
Doesn't sound like it's the game for you. (But then again, WoW sounds just perfect for you anyway)
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
YES.
This game is not MEANT TO ONLY PVE. Got that?
This game isn't for you, go on. Try...well I dunno, Last Chaos or another Asiagrinder...
You won't ever be as good by pure PvEing in WAR.
Pure PvP Players WILL BE BETTER EQUIPPED THAN YOU!
No need to discuss this further, just ignore WAR and search on.
Of course you need level's to be able to compete in the high end battlegrounds when you fight for "terrotority" <- if its spelled wrong then correct me.
But still basicly i believed that Warhammer Online is made for RVR-PVP
List of SOE lies
Exactly. And its territory.
______________________________
WAR looks AWESOME!
Give Blood....Play Rugby!
You still fail to provide PvE players a driving goal. We don't need to be good at PvP. We don't need to be good at anything, except we do need to be the BEST at PvE-fighting...and this will never be negociable, PvE-centric players won't stick around a game that doesn't grant them this.
So the basic problem for you is, fear of a challenge. Yet why does your sig say "Challenges are a side order for successfull RPGs" ?Because YOU might get after in EXP compared to other people? Does other people really matter that much to you anyway?
It is inevitable, to progress in a MMORPG. No matter what you do, you still get better.
If you have fun on the way does it matter if you know others might grow stronger than you faster? Besides we know nothing about how EXP is devided and works by this time, that we won't know untill we've played it ourselves. But so far I think you should just wait and try the game when it comes. I think most of your concearns are just in your head... well I definitly want to hear your story when you have tried the game (and me too)
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Remember, even if you exclusively do only the PVE part of the game, you're still contributing to the overall RvR conflict. But if you only PVE, you're going to be extremely limited as to where you can go, because in basic terms, as you level the smaller the PVE areas get. Still, even the hardcore PvPers will appreciate everything that the PVE'ers do to further the effort. My worry is that PVEers will be the ones who endlessly re-roll and will have a tough time getting to those higher levels.
As far as the end game, I might be wrong here, but it seems to me that it will be player-driven. The game is about conflict. It's not about endless NPC raids. The results of these conflicts will dictate the end-game - and since these conflicts involve real people instead of NPC's, the eventual results will always vary from day to day and server to server.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Players fight on the frontiers, Zones switch their Owners, PvP Scenarios Open up and Close down accordingly. Your Race's Leader might get captured so you have to rescue him, Caravans maybe have to be protected and so on and so forth.
But the PvE Part will be pretty static nevertheless IMO.
Maybe some PvE Instances will only be playable when your Side owns the Zone or something, but other than that...
check out the vids about the bastion stair:
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/behindTheScenes/vidPhoneDiaries/2007may.php
Near the middle and bottom of the page read these two headings:
"Boss Profile - Slaurith" and "Dungeon Profile - The Bastion Stair"
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=506&Itemid=31
Looks to me like there will be plenty of loot to be had from PvE.
Hmm sorry to burst your bubble here, as it appears that you at least have some info on the game, but have it wrong.
That's not what the devs have said, not even close, and you're doing the game way more harm than good by putting that crapolla out there. What they've said is that they believe that the PvP content in WAR will be so enjoyable that they hope players that are choosing to level up via PvE only will eventually give the PvP content a try by the time they reach tier 4. People really should quit with this childish anti PvE macho BS. They've said that one can level up via PvP only. They've said that the gear will be relatively equal regardless of the style which it was obtained. So if you're a rabid PvPer, and plan on doing only that, the PvE content won't affect you in any way. Get over it already. Having PvE in the game isn't a threat to your manhood. Alright?
We have really no idea yet how many tier 4 dungeons there will be yet, and so far we have no idea what other PvE content there's going to be that's not instanced either. Think about what you said though, even if the 6 number is right. that's 6 PvE encounters for tier 4 players ( I'm thinking of a very popular game that gets bashed by the PvP only lamers as being only "a PvE game", and I do believe that's more high end raid content that it had at release).
This one for each race thing? False. At most what one could speculate on at this point is that there's going to 3 high end per side. They aren't making any dungeons race exclusive as far as we know at this point (but it's very highly unlikely), the most they may do is make some faction exclusive, although in this last newsletter the dungeon described can be accessed by both factions.
The 80%PvP/20%PvE by tier 4 number that keeps getting bandied about has to do with zone PvP area and PvE area splits, as in how much space is designated for that style exclusively. So even with that split in size at tier 4, they can still pack a lot of PvE instanced content into the 20% area. The game is being designed so that one can level up via PvP or PvE exclusively, and keep enjoying the game at the highest tier as well regardless of what style one prefers.
You did manage to get one thing right though, well partially right anyway. Yes it's been said that the best loot and such will come from the RvR objective of capturing the enemies city. RvR in WAR doesn't just mean PvP though. It's been made clear right from the start that the PvE content will be part of the RvR campaigns as well. There's never been anything said about the final stages of sacking the enemies city being a PvP exclusive thing either. There very well may be lots of PvE objectives, for those that prefer that style of play, that can be done to help in the war effort.
This "first rule of WAR" that you're spouting off is pure bullocks. By spouting it off as fact, you're doing the game much more harm than good.
If there is actually a "first rule of WAR", then it's the reminder that's up on the wall of one of the high up people's offices. "Fun you F....rs!"
Then I guess I will just put it aside, which is a shame.
I am a Warhammer fan after all. And as most fans of the Warhammer franchise, I am not PvP-realtime driven, nor was I used to in this franchise.
And as I said, as long as PvE-acquired loot is the best for PvE combat, doesn't care if I miss on bleeding edges PvP procs that work only against players. As long as I could do it, no matter how small % of the content, and master it, totally, without PvP or raiding.
As to judging if 5%, 15%, 20% of the content is enough for me, that is something a dev should let me decide by myself...as long as the path to the end, ultimate PvE ends, is completely open and I wouldn't feel shafted by PvPers.
Again, if this is what they are doing, I won't buy WAR, and this is a shame. It is not like I am asking for much. I am only asking that the tiny PvE part lead to total and complete mastery of PvE combats without the needs of raiding or PvPing...doesn't care if I miss whatever PvP extra bonus you can only get while PvPing...as long as it has only impacts in PvP.
Oh well, next game.
Anofalye, don't go by what some of these people are saying here. They're wayyyyy of base. They've taken bits and pieces of info and patched it together all wrong so as to make the game seem like it's theirs and theirs alone. Go have a look around at the main warhammer site, or better yet some of the real fansites for dev quotes and interviews. There's going to be plenty of PvE content in this game, and plenty of it to do at the highest levels as well. Mythic isn't stupid. They're not putting all this effort and all these resources into making a game for the small niche of PvP only people out there. The people that will be enjoying this game to it's fullest are the people, like myself, that enjoy PvP and PvE equally imo, because this looks to be the game that gets both right.Well said. There are certain aspects of the game that people are looking forward to, but in the end, the successful players/guilds will be the ones that are diverse. I don't think people who are only into PVE will be totally disappointed, because many of the things they do will still go toward the RvR part of the game. By the same token, PvPers will certainly appreciate (and hopefully, support) everything the PVEers are doing.
I'm sure there will be an open beta or stress test that will allow people to see for themselves.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
I'm bored of all those PvE centric games so i have high hopes on WAR. At least there will be no people that flame you on the official forums, for ganking them while they where on a quest.
Look, WAR is not a PVP game; it is an RvR game and their is a difference. RvR encompasses both PvP and PvE. If you go out and kill other players you aid your realm in RvR. If you go out and kill NPCs you aid your realm in RvR.
WAR will have great content for both types of players.
To the OP: I think the real question is wether you want balanced PvP and PvE (there will be), or wether you want tiered PvE raid dungeons where you have to finish one dungeon to get the equipment to survive the next (there won't be).
In either case you should give the game a try, Mythic is a great company and if WAR lives up to the legacy of DaoC, this will be a fun game no matter what type of player you are.
Raiders wont like the game I feel.
Theres a seperation between pve pvp and RVR though, I suggest playing daoc to figure this out.
your motivation is never to sit in a dungeon and farm bearpaws until you have enough to create the bear totem, so you can fight the BIG BEAR who drops phat epic lewtz that are bigger and better than anything anyone else in the game has.
infact, if its like daoc, there IS NO great gear. everything is the same quality just seperate stats, and most items will be easily attainable.
If you just like "pve" you wont have a provlem adapting.
If you like DOMINANCE thru pve you will be highly disappointed and unsatisfied playing an rvr based game.
if you like to gank? you wont like this game as you can not gank.
if you like to rvr.... you will like this rvr game.
hm, you want PvE endgame but you dont want raiding thats like a contradiction of sorts. you cant have one without the other sadly. sure, maybe one day someone will develop an evolving AI that will create dynamic scenarios for a dynamic world. But that will take a lot of design and will be way too risky for a mainstream game like WAR '08. what other types of endgame did you have in mind?
If you want true dynamic experiences then you should be open to PvP in WAR. I dont understand why people would close their minds to it. i mean whats the worse that can happen? You obviously cant always win because you're fighting a human opponent but you cant be camped or griefed plus they separate the uber warriors from the newbies. I dont get it are carebears afraid of player competition?
It's going to be nice clean RvR and as far as we all know thats the endgame. PvP provides rich opportunities for endless gameplay.
Plus, Paul already said it makes no sense for a person to have some nice ability that doesnt work the same in both PvE/PvP. so throw out your desires for pvpers bonuses to only work in PvP.
honestly you're gonna be missing out on over 50%+ of the game content if you jsut wanna close the door on half the game. dont complain because you're unwilling to change. in any case I'm sure they might give you carebears some dungeons to do and heck, even us pvpers might wanna do it every so often. but rest assure, it wont be like those PvE driven games. you're gonna see way less people doing any sort of endgame PvE content. the only reason ppl ever farm repititious PvE endgame content is for loot. but give ppl a better way to get rewards via non-repititous methods I promise you the majority will choose that option
Why does every single thread that discusses PvP and PvE inevitably degrade into childish insults like 'carebear' getting tossed about, and people posting in a tone that tries to get across that they think they're more manly or daring because they prefer to PvP all the time. If your masculinity is based on what you do in a computer game, and if you feel so threatened by people that don't share you taste that you have to lash out and insult them, then frankly you have some real issues. It might just be time to back away from the keyboard and go deal with them.
Isn't it getting old by now? Let people play the way they want to play, and leave them alone about it.
hm, me thinks you did not read this thread at all otherwise u would not have missed the OP saying this:
So he called himself a carebear anyway. plus we send PMs to each other i the past so I would not think he'd get offended. I hope he gets a rich PvE experience because thats more options for all of us. I just wanted to know what type of other endgame he might desire assuming they dont have the tech for an advanced AI that can generate dynamic content / quests.
So no reason to get rilled up about a term often used to refer to PvE'ers. I think he told me his SG in CoH is called "Carebears" so i dont understand how I can insult him + not to mention we converse fairly often he writes good posts always but like me he hates to raid
[edit] so im thinking maybe he sould give pvp in WAR a try because he might like it assuming the things he hated bout pvp dont exist in it.
to the OP:
I find it strange, that u are a warhammer franchise fan and werent expecting a PvP game.... since Warhammer (table top) from which this game is taken is all about PvP, and what's the point in the being in a WAR and being able to avoid it altogether.