Would be nice if SOE owned some rights to every MMO on the market kind of like Wal-Mart owns basically every cities discount everything section. OMG NO WAY!! why would I say that? 1.) SOE is a established professional company who helps even games that are undeveloped [Vangard:SOH] build itself a tid bit.
2.) SOE's customer service is good, Other than one occurance they have never knocked me around and the one occurance recently where I was charged I spoke to someone this morning and was refunded. Thats one serious issue since 1999.
3.) People who hate SOE and like to spam forums about how bad SOE is will not participate in MMO's making the communities less childish.
4.) Every game that comes out will have a huge financial backing there fore cannot flop like Vangard did. (SOE did not develop VG nor are the PoTBS)
5.) Every MMO ever created would be on the access account
6.) When SOE buys a dying MMO like Matrix Online it re-establish's it with it's developers, advertisement, and Sony Access. Anyone who might never play matrix online if they have a access acount and are bored of EQ2 all they have to do is log in and play MxO. MxO would not be here right now if it wasn't for SOE. Crazy ?
7.) Last but not least... There would only be like 10 MMO's not 150 140 which are just garbage .....
You are sub human. Your so stupid. Drink a bottle of asprin. soe has12 of the 140 trash games. All of soes games are trash.
Xplororor, man I think it's time to just give it up. He isn't listening to anyone, even in the face of factual evidence. If he wants to look at SOE like it's the second coming of jesus or something. Not much you can do to change his mind. Just wash your hands of this dirty thread, you've more then proven how incorrect his logic is. Just go back to posting those solid responses I've come to respect in other threads. Because your words are falling on deaf ears here. Besides you know how that saying goes. Don't argue with an id***, he'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience.
Sariah, it's pretty obvious you are just in this for distance and irritation, not actual debate. So how about you, and everyone else just agree to let this thread die, and be buried.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Would be nice if SOE owned some rights to every MMO on the market kind of like Wal-Mart owns basically every cities discount everything section. OMG NO WAY!! why would I say that? 1.) SOE is a established professional company who helps even games that are undeveloped [Vangard:SOH] build itself a tid bit.
2.) SOE's customer service is good, Other than one occurance they have never knocked me around and the one occurance recently where I was charged I spoke to someone this morning and was refunded. Thats one serious issue since 1999.
3.) People who hate SOE and like to spam forums about how bad SOE is will not participate in MMO's making the communities less childish.
4.) Every game that comes out will have a huge financial backing there fore cannot flop like Vangard did. (SOE did not develop VG nor are the PoTBS)
5.) Every MMO ever created would be on the access account
6.) When SOE buys a dying MMO like Matrix Online it re-establish's it with it's developers, advertisement, and Sony Access. Anyone who might never play matrix online if they have a access acount and are bored of EQ2 all they have to do is log in and play MxO. MxO would not be here right now if it wasn't for SOE. Crazy ?
7.) Last but not least... There would only be like 10 MMO's not 150 140 which are just garbage .....
You are sub human. Your so stupid. Drink a bottle of asprin. soe has12 of the 140 trash games. All of soes games are trash.
If your going to reply to a topic where you insult, and make claims BRING FACTS.. SOE games are trash? Why explain what made you feel this way other than their games weren't for you... when you make those type of FLAMING comments you make yourself sound like a kid, childish and immature. Have some respect for yourself and understand no one will ever take you seriously for making a little flaming one liner.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had?
Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had? Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Nope... my ego's just fine. Your facts are incorrect. And your attitude invalidates any point you are trying to make anyway. You can call others crabs or trolls if you like... but it's nothing more than amusing coming from someone who would rather flame in every reply while accusing others of flaming... lol
Here's a blurb from the FAQ of the site you link as a resource ( http://mmogdata.com/ ):
*note* The title of the page is "Frequently Asked Queestions"... I question the validity of data from a site which has a typo in the page titles.
4. Why so many blanks / missing data?
I don’t have any good data for the game in question but would like it, hence it is blank. If I cannot confirm the source of any data or the data would be guess work then I do not include it. Data needs to come from a good source to get added. If you have any data on these or other games not listed, feel free to drop me a line!
5. Where do you get your numbers?
The numbers come from a variety of sources, and some games have more than one source. These sources include press releases, direct data from the developers, company investor documents, news articles, public comments and anonymous sources.
6. Your numbers are all made up or are just guesses!
I assure you, they are not. It is true that many companies keep their subscriber numbers confidential, but others are more open about it (less so as each month goes by ). Almost all of the data I use comes from actual sources, although often those sources are insiders who only give the information on the condition of anonymity. If I simply wanted to make up numbers, I’d put out an update every week, and those updates would quickly be revealed as faulty when compared to, say, company press releases. So, while I am the first to admit that the data is not always reliable and it is most definitely not made up – or at least, not by me.
So, this site is by no means an accurate resource for subscription numbers. And anyone who believes the numbers released by SOME developers may as well guess the number, as it is not all that uncommon for numbers to be inflated for the purpose of press releases. Financial data provided by corporations to state and federal regulators are based on revenue earned, taxable assets, and taxes paid, and would not be required to include the number of subscribers past and present.
It's very easy to Google up statistics to use in a forum post, but without an understanding of the industry behind them, or corporate filing requirements, you are simply wasting your time. And again, your personal attacks and sarcasm are not helping you look intelligent, they are simply making me pity you. I wonder what happened to make you so bitter...
Of course you would say the information is invalid or guessing even though the information stems directly from the company. Yet you have failed to realize it even means the information about the games you think have a larger playerbase is invalid . So I dont see how you made any point other than facts WoW is huge and the following
American Subscribers - 14.99/mo
Asian Subscribers pay close to 1.49 USD/mo
So if lineage has 1.5 mill which most of its playerbase is from Asia similar to WoW a company with 500,000 US subscribers will make more revenue .... Now even though you love to explain to me how little I know you also show how little you know.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
I agree most people who bash SOE are just on a bandwagon and don't think for themselves. Plus it's sort of the "in" thing to do lately but it just looks ignorant and wannabe elitist.
Most of the problem games SOE is associated with are not games that SOE actually messed up. Instead, they're part of the revival of those games. Good points made by the OP.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
You know I use to be just like most of you here who agree soe is not a bad company, but once I had some real experience with them in every mmorpg I played from them I learned the truth and why so many dont like soe. I use to think they read to much into it and did not know what they where talking about but man was I wrong, it all started with eq1 when they started doing silly nerfs for so called class balance because people complained that there class was not the most powerful.
What really ticked me off is when they nerfed the bard, and the bard was by far the least powerful class in the game they where jack of all trades that was it and that had one thing that helped them solo and they nerfed it, why? Because so many people griped about it, and soe knew that bards where not the majority of the player base so they nerfed it, its a tactic that even blizzard used in the past with wow.
So I quit because I felt that the game was changing into something that wasnt fun anymore and was not about to put any more effort into my other characters or my bard, that and the game was to time consuming for me to get very far, its still the best mmorpg ive ever played though so dont get me wrong.
I also experienced poor customeer service from soe in eq1 and eq2, and when it comes to a graphics issue on there side because they released a bug on certain cards they give you a run around instead of telling you the truth, atleast the guy pointed me to the forums but they basicly said sorry you wasted your money on eq2. Even after I finally got this fixed months later when I tried eq2 again I played a monk for a while and they started making more unnecessary nerfs because other classes where complaining not because it was overpowered either believe me it was not. And not to mention other classes shared there unnecessary nerfs.
All im saying is if soe really cared about the quality and gameplay of there mmorpgs then they would not worry about these whiney kids who want there classes to be overpowered because they know mommy and daddys credit cards will feed there greed.
People who thinks SOE is bad are usually those who have had bad personal experience with them. Those who thinks SOE is good are those who haven't had any problems with them yet.
If SOE would be good company for all players as doing mmorpgs and would have no problems what ever, there would be no haters at all. So what did they do to get haters? People don't start to hate some companies if they are good for them, do they?
I don't like SOE, because I have had bad issues with them personaly.
Would be nice if SOE owned some rights to every MMO on the market kind of like Wal-Mart owns basically every cities discount everything section. OMG NO WAY!! why would I say that? 1.) SOE is a established professional company who helps even games that are undeveloped [Vangard:SOH] build itself a tid bit.
2.) SOE's customer service is good, Other than one occurance they have never knocked me around and the one occurance recently where I was charged I spoke to someone this morning and was refunded. Thats one serious issue since 1999.
3.) People who hate SOE and like to spam forums about how bad SOE is will not participate in MMO's making the communities less childish.
4.) Every game that comes out will have a huge financial backing there fore cannot flop like Vangard did. (SOE did not develop VG nor are the PoTBS)
5.) Every MMO ever created would be on the access account
6.) When SOE buys a dying MMO like Matrix Online it re-establish's it with it's developers, advertisement, and Sony Access. Anyone who might never play matrix online if they have a access acount and are bored of EQ2 all they have to do is log in and play MxO. MxO would not be here right now if it wasn't for SOE. Crazy ?
7.) Last but not least... There would only be like 10 MMO's not 150 140 which are just garbage .....
This is very surface observations. With absoltly no support for your opinons.
for example #7 is silly, if it wasnt for small comanies trying new things, we would even have mmorpgs. Smaller companies tend to bring innovation as innovation is far to risky a business for investors and the board of directors.
Sony gives money, handles marketing, hires customer service and sets deadlines. Vanguard was released far to early under pressure from Sony after they threatend to dump the game if they didnt release at the date they gave them. The developers have been quoted many times saying that the game was release way before it was ready. They tried to make the best of it, but you really are still playing a beta.
#1 is purly opinion, so it has absoluty no place in a real debate. I think that one could go both ways depending on what numbers your looking at.
#3 is a gross generalization. By that logic Sony apparently attracts youth hating elitists, which imo is just as bad...
#4 is silly, Sony doesnt develop games, they are a publisher. None of the games they publish are made by them, they just set the dates, give the money and piggy back on the hard work of smaller companies.
Id give you a little more numbers are reasoning for my counte arguments, but im sloshed out of my mind and the spell checker is probably going insane.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Im sure they also tell them how to design it somewhat and have some of there own employees take charge of the project just like they did when they bought out the company who did eq1 in the first place.
Sariah , are you a female irl ? if you are, we can all stop replying here and let the topic die.
You debate like a woman, you reply like a woman and you refuse to let go of your oh so shallow truth and how your point of view should be the only point of view.
I've witnessed this behavior countless times from females in WoW, not to mention my two sisters, and, regardless of how normal they may be when they don't try to argue, as soon as they start debating, it's exactly like how this topic has proceeded.
To all other female players, I'm totally generalizing, but I couldn't care less.
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had? Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had? Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
For a start i think we should keep this topic focused on the US/EURO market, who gives a crap about the Korean one, we are NOT involved in it anyway. In OUR market SOE are one of the biggest and best not NCSOFT.
Either way this topic has become pointless, basically SOE are the biggest guys in the market that matters most to us (our market) so why are we chatting on about Korean numbers when they dont even matter to us at all. Its well known that they like TOTALLY different games than us and they are alot more into gaming so it would seem.
Using the Korean population numbers is kinda like comparing French food to English food. of course more French people are gonna eat French food and more English people are gonna eat English food, just like more Koreans play Korean games than US/EURO players.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
For a start i think we should keep this topic focused on the US/EURO market, who gives a crap about the Korean one, we are NOT involved in it anyway. In OUR market SOE are one of the biggest and best not NCSOFT. Garrik
I have NCSOFT account and I play City of Heroes in us/euro. OP did not limit it to EU/US in the OP, it did come later.
Hole issue with this treath is so stupid. People argue about stuff what can be looked many different ways depending how YOU self want to see situation.
If someone likes SOE, it's that persons own choise. If someone doesn't like SOE, it is that persons choise. People can't change others opinion, because they feel differently.
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had?
Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
For a start i think we should keep this topic focused on the US/EURO market, who gives a crap about the Korean one, we are NOT involved in it anyway. In OUR market SOE are one of the biggest and best not NCSOFT.
Either way this topic has become pointless, basically SOE are the biggest guys in the market that matters most to us (our market) so why are we chatting on about Korean numbers when they dont even matter to us at all. Its well known that they like TOTALLY different games than us and they are alot more into gaming so it would seem.
Using the Korean population numbers is kinda like comparing French food to English food. of course more French people are gonna eat French food and more English people are gonna eat English food, just like more Koreans play Korean games than US/EURO players.
Garrik
1: The OP never said anything about limiting it to just the US/EURO market. Which is quite foolish considering that the US/EURO markets are much smaller then the Asian MMO markets.
2: How a game performs in Asia has a direct impact on our market. It shows which games hit our market and which ones don't.
3: The thread is about publishers, how a publisher performs in Korea and China has a direct impact on our market. Western companies such as Arenanet (NCsoft), Real time worlds (Webzen) and Flagship studios (Hanbitsoft) pick asian companies to publish the games for them. Those publishers became big because of their success in Asia. For those who don't recognise the company names I just mentioned, Arena net is the company behind Guild Wars, Real time worlds is the developer of All Point Bulletin. APB is made by the man behind the original Grand theft auto and the Xbox360 game Crackdown, and flagship studios is the company behind Hellgate: London. Even Lord British picked an asian company (NCsoft) to publish his game. And one could only wonder how big NCsoft would be without its success in korea.
4: NCsoft is one of the biggest publishers of online games in the western market, probably 2nd largest next to SOE.. Lineage 2 has over 100k subscribers and GW's boxes sold is around 4 million, if not more, and Guild Wars 2 is on the way. City of Heroes peaked at 170k subscriber I believe? And is currently around 120k subscribers. NCsoft wouldn't be able to attract companies like Cryptic Studios and Arena net if it wasn't for its size, and NCsoft became this big because of its success in asia.
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had? Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
Now you have completely displayed how ignorant and unknowledgable you are,... with more opinions ...
I'm not even going to provide with links to any other sites that prove you wrong... I dont need too... appearantly you make up your own mind and opinions and believe them. Now retract your statement and take your own advise... walk away until you come back with something more than opinions.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had? Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
Now you have completely displayed how ignorant and unknowledgable you are,... with more opinions ...
I'm not even going to provide with links to any other sites that prove you wrong... I dont need too... appearantly you make up your own mind and opinions and believe them. Now retract your statement and take your own advise... walk away until you come back with something more than opinions.
Fact: Maple Story is a free to play MMORPG. The numbers you see there are accounts created, not concurrent users. Only the korean version lists concurent users.
Fact: This is from your post:
"(F2P) doesn't count"
Fact: You have no idea what your talking about.
Other interesting facts:
1: Most korean MMo's do NOT reach 1 million players. 1 million accounts created does not equal 1 million active players
2: I'm the one that has been posting nothing but facts, Everything I posted is backed up and can be checked. Its you who keeps posting opinions, not me.
now stop posting in my thread unless your just that bored that you want to continue to look stupid...
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
Would be nice if SOE owned some rights to every MMO on the market kind of like Wal-Mart owns basically every cities discount everything section. OMG NO WAY!! why would I say that? 1.) SOE is a established professional company who helps even games that are undeveloped [Vangard:SOH] build itself a tid bit.
2.) SOE's customer service is good, Other than one occurance they have never knocked me around and the one occurance recently where I was charged I spoke to someone this morning and was refunded. Thats one serious issue since 1999.
3.) People who hate SOE and like to spam forums about how bad SOE is will not participate in MMO's making the communities less childish.
4.) Every game that comes out will have a huge financial backing there fore cannot flop like Vangard did. (SOE did not develop VG nor are the PoTBS)
5.) Every MMO ever created would be on the access account
6.) When SOE buys a dying MMO like Matrix Online it re-establish's it with it's developers, advertisement, and Sony Access. Anyone who might never play matrix online if they have a access acount and are bored of EQ2 all they have to do is log in and play MxO. MxO would not be here right now if it wasn't for SOE. Crazy ?
7.) Last but not least... There would only be like 10 MMO's not 150 140 which are just garbage .....
This is the most insane arguement I have seen in awhile.
SOE can hardly get their games to run let alone claim they are one of the top companies. If it wasn't for EQ, the whole MMO branch of the company would have imploded a long time ago.
Mismanagement is the hallmark of SOE....EQII launch was a disaster and how many server consolidations and revamps has it had? SWG.......need I say more, The Matrix? you must be joking to even reference it. Vanguard...good lord the game is a total and complete frickin mess.
Maybe in dreamland SOE is a great company but in reality............
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
Sariah, do yourself a favor and don't go into debate with me
Torak just wanted #150 Its not even a debate over SOE having its hand in mmo's anymore now its just a opinion>fact war. I state facts they get over looked or downplayed other people state documents that are appearantly golden .... Thats life ...
I seriously doubt ragnorok was 13 million and 1 subscribers wrong which means even if they slightly inflated by 1-2 million or completely inflated by 10 million they would still have 1 million subscribers. Now stop thinking everything you post is right and every piece of information I post is invalid.... If the documents showing subscriptions is wrong about EQ makign it to 550,000 which it isn't then it would be wrong about Lineage having 1.5 million to. It cant go one direction without going the other. And saying the documents are a guestimate also leaves there room for belief that it could be higher than posted meaning maybe 600,000 US subscribers. So if your ready to role on this debate drop the your wrong im right act and prove yourself. You havnt proved anything yet other than we can both find documents on the internet... and we both no NOTHING ON THE WEB IS LIES... EVERYTHING IS REAL.... so the ammount of credit you give any information I find is the same amount I give to yours... one thing you forget the world is more worried about Paris Hiltons resturaunt cravings then troops dying in war.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
Sariah, do yourself a favor and don't go into debate with me
Torak just wanted #150 Its not even a debate over SOE having its hand in mmo's anymore now its just a opinion>fact war. I state facts they get over looked or downplayed other people state documents that are appearantly golden .... Thats life ...
I seriously doubt ragnorok was 13 million and 1 subscribers wrong which means even if they slightly inflated by 1-2 million or completely inflated by 10 million they would still have 1 million subscribers. Now stop thinking everything you post is right and every piece of information I post is invalid.... If the documents showing subscriptions is wrong about EQ makign it to 550,000 which it isn't then it would be wrong about Lineage having 1.5 million to. It cant go one direction without going the other. And saying the documents are a guestimate also leaves there room for belief that it could be higher than posted meaning maybe 600,000 US subscribers. So if your ready to role on this debate drop the your wrong im right act and prove yourself. You havnt proved anything yet other than we can both find documents on the internet... and we both no NOTHING ON THE WEB IS LIES... EVERYTHING IS REAL.... so the ammount of credit you give any information I find is the same amount I give to yours... one thing you forget the world is more worried about Paris Hiltons resturaunt cravings then troops dying in war.
Sariah, just drop it okay? You don't want to spend a lot of time investigating the current subscribtion of MMO's, thats fine, but then don't come here pretending that you know whats going on.You claiming that every korean MMO has a playerbase of 1 million is laughable at best. There are over 200 different MMO's in Korea, and you claim that each of them has 1 million players. thats next to impossible, considering that Korea only has a population of 49 million people. I never said anything about Everquest subscribtions 550k being wrong, I said that Ragnarok Online's millions of subscribers number is incorrect, because it uses accounts created, not active subscribers/players.
Also, the difference between EQ 550k and Lineage's 1,5k is that EQ's 550k subscribtion was its peak, not its current subscriber base. Lineage's current subscriber base is 1,5 million, and I believe it peaked at 4 million a few years back.
Comments
You are sub human. Your so stupid. Drink a bottle of asprin. soe has12 of the 140 trash games. All of soes games are trash.
Xplororor, man I think it's time to just give it up. He isn't listening to anyone, even in the face of factual evidence. If he wants to look at SOE like it's the second coming of jesus or something. Not much you can do to change his mind. Just wash your hands of this dirty thread, you've more then proven how incorrect his logic is. Just go back to posting those solid responses I've come to respect in other threads. Because your words are falling on deaf ears here. Besides you know how that saying goes. Don't argue with an id***, he'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience.
Sariah, it's pretty obvious you are just in this for distance and irritation, not actual debate. So how about you, and everyone else just agree to let this thread die, and be buried.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Wow, this entire thread just screams fanciful flamebait. Looks like someone was bored. As for that last post...well I have nothing to say to that.
Edit: When I say last post I mean Benz00
You are sub human. Your so stupid. Drink a bottle of asprin. soe has12 of the 140 trash games. All of soes games are trash.
If your going to reply to a topic where you insult, and make claims BRING FACTS.. SOE games are trash? Why explain what made you feel this way other than their games weren't for you... when you make those type of FLAMING comments you make yourself sound like a kid, childish and immature. Have some respect for yourself and understand no one will ever take you seriously for making a little flaming one liner.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
SOE has such great experience how are their other MMOs going after EQ?
With all the experience surely they've made something that people on a massive scale play? Oh, no other game they've made has eclipsed their "first" MMO? Oh, every MMO they own doesn't even have enough subscriptions to add up to what EQ once had?
Oh, geez I guess we just don't know what fun is, do we? Yea, thats it its the consumers fault!
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Nope... my ego's just fine. Your facts are incorrect. And your attitude invalidates any point you are trying to make anyway. You can call others crabs or trolls if you like... but it's nothing more than amusing coming from someone who would rather flame in every reply while accusing others of flaming... lol
Here's a blurb from the FAQ of the site you link as a resource ( http://mmogdata.com/ ):
*note* The title of the page is "Frequently Asked Queestions"... I question the validity of data from a site which has a typo in the page titles.
4. Why so many blanks / missing data?
I don’t have any good data for the game in question but would like it, hence it is blank. If I cannot confirm the source of any data or the data would be guess work then I do not include it. Data needs to come from a good source to get added. If you have any data on these or other games not listed, feel free to drop me a line!
5. Where do you get your numbers?
The numbers come from a variety of sources, and some games have more than one source. These sources include press releases, direct data from the developers, company investor documents, news articles, public comments and anonymous sources.
6. Your numbers are all made up or are just guesses!
). Almost all of the data I use comes from actual sources, although often those sources are insiders who only give the information on the condition of anonymity. If I simply wanted to make up numbers, I’d put out an update every week, and those updates would quickly be revealed as faulty when compared to, say, company press releases. So, while I am the first to admit that the data is not always reliable and it is most definitely not made up – or at least, not by me.
I assure you, they are not. It is true that many companies keep their subscriber numbers confidential, but others are more open about it (less so as each month goes by
So, this site is by no means an accurate resource for subscription numbers. And anyone who believes the numbers released by SOME developers may as well guess the number, as it is not all that uncommon for numbers to be inflated for the purpose of press releases. Financial data provided by corporations to state and federal regulators are based on revenue earned, taxable assets, and taxes paid, and would not be required to include the number of subscribers past and present.
It's very easy to Google up statistics to use in a forum post, but without an understanding of the industry behind them, or corporate filing requirements, you are simply wasting your time. And again, your personal attacks and sarcasm are not helping you look intelligent, they are simply making me pity you. I wonder what happened to make you so bitter...
- - - -
Support Independent Game Developers
Of course you would say the information is invalid or guessing even though the information stems directly from the company. Yet you have failed to realize it even means the information about the games you think have a larger playerbase is invalid
. So I dont see how you made any point other than facts WoW is huge and the following
American Subscribers - 14.99/mo
Asian Subscribers pay close to 1.49 USD/mo
So if lineage has 1.5 mill which most of its playerbase is from Asia similar to WoW a company with 500,000 US subscribers will make more revenue .... Now even though you love to explain to me how little I know you also show how little you know.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
I agree most people who bash SOE are just on a bandwagon and don't think for themselves. Plus it's sort of the "in" thing to do lately but it just looks ignorant and wannabe elitist.
Most of the problem games SOE is associated with are not games that SOE actually messed up. Instead, they're part of the revival of those games. Good points made by the OP.
- Phos
You know I use to be just like most of you here who agree soe is not a bad company, but once I had some real experience with them in every mmorpg I played from them I learned the truth and why so many dont like soe. I use to think they read to much into it and did not know what they where talking about but man was I wrong, it all started with eq1 when they started doing silly nerfs for so called class balance because people complained that there class was not the most powerful.
What really ticked me off is when they nerfed the bard, and the bard was by far the least powerful class in the game they where jack of all trades that was it and that had one thing that helped them solo and they nerfed it, why? Because so many people griped about it, and soe knew that bards where not the majority of the player base so they nerfed it, its a tactic that even blizzard used in the past with wow.
So I quit because I felt that the game was changing into something that wasnt fun anymore and was not about to put any more effort into my other characters or my bard, that and the game was to time consuming for me to get very far, its still the best mmorpg ive ever played though so dont get me wrong.
I also experienced poor customeer service from soe in eq1 and eq2, and when it comes to a graphics issue on there side because they released a bug on certain cards they give you a run around instead of telling you the truth, atleast the guy pointed me to the forums but they basicly said sorry you wasted your money on eq2. Even after I finally got this fixed months later when I tried eq2 again I played a monk for a while and they started making more unnecessary nerfs because other classes where complaining not because it was overpowered either believe me it was not. And not to mention other classes shared there unnecessary nerfs.
All im saying is if soe really cared about the quality and gameplay of there mmorpgs then they would not worry about these whiney kids who want there classes to be overpowered because they know mommy and daddys credit cards will feed there greed.
People who thinks SOE is bad are usually those who have had bad personal experience with them. Those who thinks SOE is good are those who haven't had any problems with them yet.
If SOE would be good company for all players as doing mmorpgs and would have no problems what ever, there would be no haters at all. So what did they do to get haters? People don't start to hate some companies if they are good for them, do they?
I don't like SOE, because I have had bad issues with them personaly.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
for example #7 is silly, if it wasnt for small comanies trying new things, we would even have mmorpgs. Smaller companies tend to bring innovation as innovation is far to risky a business for investors and the board of directors.
Sony gives money, handles marketing, hires customer service and sets deadlines. Vanguard was released far to early under pressure from Sony after they threatend to dump the game if they didnt release at the date they gave them. The developers have been quoted many times saying that the game was release way before it was ready. They tried to make the best of it, but you really are still playing a beta.
#1 is purly opinion, so it has absoluty no place in a real debate. I think that one could go both ways depending on what numbers your looking at.
#3 is a gross generalization. By that logic Sony apparently attracts youth hating elitists, which imo is just as bad...
#4 is silly, Sony doesnt develop games, they are a publisher. None of the games they publish are made by them, they just set the dates, give the money and piggy back on the hard work of smaller companies.
Id give you a little more numbers are reasoning for my counte arguments, but im sloshed out of my mind and the spell checker is probably going insane.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Im sure they also tell them how to design it somewhat and have some of there own employees take charge of the project just like they did when they bought out the company who did eq1 in the first place.
Sariah , are you a female irl ? if you are, we can all stop replying here and let the topic die.
You debate like a woman, you reply like a woman and you refuse to let go of your oh so shallow truth and how your point of view should be the only point of view.
I've witnessed this behavior countless times from females in WoW, not to mention my two sisters, and, regardless of how normal they may be when they don't try to argue, as soon as they start debating, it's exactly like how this topic has proceeded.
To all other female players, I'm totally generalizing, but I couldn't care less.
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
For a start i think we should keep this topic focused on the US/EURO market, who gives a crap about the Korean one, we are NOT involved in it anyway. In OUR market SOE are one of the biggest and best not NCSOFT.
Either way this topic has become pointless, basically SOE are the biggest guys in the market that matters most to us (our market) so why are we chatting on about Korean numbers when they dont even matter to us at all. Its well known that they like TOTALLY different games than us and they are alot more into gaming so it would seem.
Using the Korean population numbers is kinda like comparing French food to English food. of course more French people are gonna eat French food and more English people are gonna eat English food, just like more Koreans play Korean games than US/EURO players.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I have NCSOFT account and I play City of Heroes in us/euro. OP did not limit it to EU/US in the OP, it did come later.
Hole issue with this treath is so stupid. People argue about stuff what can be looked many different ways depending how YOU self want to see situation.
If someone likes SOE, it's that persons own choise. If someone doesn't like SOE, it is that persons choise. People can't change others opinion, because they feel differently.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community. Dont cry though ... you cant have your cake and eat it too... whatever that homo-erotic saying means.
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
For a start i think we should keep this topic focused on the US/EURO market, who gives a crap about the Korean one, we are NOT involved in it anyway. In OUR market SOE are one of the biggest and best not NCSOFT.
Either way this topic has become pointless, basically SOE are the biggest guys in the market that matters most to us (our market) so why are we chatting on about Korean numbers when they dont even matter to us at all. Its well known that they like TOTALLY different games than us and they are alot more into gaming so it would seem.
Using the Korean population numbers is kinda like comparing French food to English food. of course more French people are gonna eat French food and more English people are gonna eat English food, just like more Koreans play Korean games than US/EURO players.
Garrik
1: The OP never said anything about limiting it to just the US/EURO market. Which is quite foolish considering that the US/EURO markets are much smaller then the Asian MMO markets.
2: How a game performs in Asia has a direct impact on our market. It shows which games hit our market and which ones don't.
3: The thread is about publishers, how a publisher performs in Korea and China has a direct impact on our market. Western companies such as Arenanet (NCsoft), Real time worlds (Webzen) and Flagship studios (Hanbitsoft) pick asian companies to publish the games for them. Those publishers became big because of their success in Asia. For those who don't recognise the company names I just mentioned, Arena net is the company behind Guild Wars, Real time worlds is the developer of All Point Bulletin. APB is made by the man behind the original Grand theft auto and the Xbox360 game Crackdown, and flagship studios is the company behind Hellgate: London. Even Lord British picked an asian company (NCsoft) to publish his game. And one could only wonder how big NCsoft would be without its success in korea.
4: NCsoft is one of the biggest publishers of online games in the western market, probably 2nd largest next to SOE.. Lineage 2 has over 100k subscribers and GW's boxes sold is around 4 million, if not more, and Guild Wars 2 is on the way. City of Heroes peaked at 170k subscriber I believe? And is currently around 120k subscribers. NCsoft wouldn't be able to attract companies like Cryptic Studios and Arena net if it wasn't for its size, and NCsoft became this big because of its success in asia.
Ignoring the asian market is foolish.
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
Now you have completely displayed how ignorant and unknowledgable you are,... with more opinions ...
Maple Story http://gamestudy.org/eblog/2006/04/21/some-facts-on-maple-story/
I'm not even going to provide with links to any other sites that prove you wrong... I dont need too... appearantly you make up your own mind and opinions and believe them. Now retract your statement and take your own advise... walk away until you come back with something more than opinions.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Every gaming company has "The Dominator" The one game that excells their other products ... Excluding lineage 1 & 2 which are Korean Based games (All korean based games have a million players) The other american titles arn't doing so hot. (F2P) doesn't count. Your rant was a little off key but displayed an attempt to be arguementive. Your not a future politician but you fit in fine in the MMORPG.com community
Sariah, do yourself a favor and just walk out of this thread. Its clear that you can not be bothered to check if your facts are right. If you did, you would have known that Lineage and Lineage 2 are currently the only two korean MMO's that have 1 million subscribers.
Now you have completely displayed how ignorant and unknowledgable you are,... with more opinions ...
Maple Story http://gamestudy.org/eblog/2006/04/21/some-facts-on-maple-story/
I'm not even going to provide with links to any other sites that prove you wrong... I dont need too... appearantly you make up your own mind and opinions and believe them. Now retract your statement and take your own advise... walk away until you come back with something more than opinions.
Fact: Maple Story is a free to play MMORPG. The numbers you see there are accounts created, not concurrent users. Only the korean version lists concurent users.
Fact: This is from your post:
"(F2P) doesn't count"
Fact: You have no idea what your talking about.
Other interesting facts:
1: Most korean MMo's do NOT reach 1 million players. 1 million accounts created does not equal 1 million active players
2: I'm the one that has been posting nothing but facts, Everything I posted is backed up and can be checked. Its you who keeps posting opinions, not me.
http://www.popcultureshock.com/news.php?id=630
now stop posting in my thread unless your just that bored that you want to continue to look stupid...
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
www.computing.co.uk/vnunet/news/2157364/online-game-company-accused
Sariah, do yourself a favor and don't go into debate with me
SOE can hardly get their games to run let alone claim they are one of the top companies. If it wasn't for EQ, the whole MMO branch of the company would have imploded a long time ago.
Mismanagement is the hallmark of SOE....EQII launch was a disaster and how many server consolidations and revamps has it had? SWG.......need I say more, The Matrix? you must be joking to even reference it. Vanguard...good lord the game is a total and complete frickin mess.
Maybe in dreamland SOE is a great company but in reality............
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
www.computing.co.uk/vnunet/news/2157364/online-game-company-accused
Sariah, do yourself a favor and don't go into debate with me
Torak just wanted #150 Its not even a debate over SOE having its hand in mmo's anymore now its just a opinion>fact war. I state facts they get over looked or downplayed other people state documents that are appearantly golden .... Thats life ...
I seriously doubt ragnorok was 13 million and 1 subscribers wrong which means even if they slightly inflated by 1-2 million or completely inflated by 10 million they would still have 1 million subscribers. Now stop thinking everything you post is right and every piece of information I post is invalid.... If the documents showing subscriptions is wrong about EQ makign it to 550,000 which it isn't then it would be wrong about Lineage having 1.5 million to. It cant go one direction without going the other. And saying the documents are a guestimate also leaves there room for belief that it could be higher than posted meaning maybe 600,000 US subscribers. So if your ready to role on this debate drop the your wrong im right act and prove yourself. You havnt proved anything yet other than we can both find documents on the internet... and we both no NOTHING ON THE WEB IS LIES... EVERYTHING IS REAL.... so the ammount of credit you give any information I find is the same amount I give to yours... one thing you forget the world is more worried about Paris Hiltons resturaunt cravings then troops dying in war.
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
Seriously, you can stop proving that you don't know what your talking about already. I have been an RO player for 3 years and in those 3 years I was interested in anything that had to do with Ragnarok Online.
More facts:
Fact 1: Ragnarok online counts accounts created, NOT active subscribers/players.
Fact 2: Gravity Corporation has been sued for lying about the growth of their subscribtion numbers.
Here is a part of the lawsuit. It doesn't show all details (its going to take me a bit longer to find the document that has all info in it, its an old report)
www.computing.co.uk/vnunet/news/2157364/online-game-company-accused
Sariah, do yourself a favor and don't go into debate with me
Torak just wanted #150 Its not even a debate over SOE having its hand in mmo's anymore now its just a opinion>fact war. I state facts they get over looked or downplayed other people state documents that are appearantly golden .... Thats life ...
I seriously doubt ragnorok was 13 million and 1 subscribers wrong which means even if they slightly inflated by 1-2 million or completely inflated by 10 million they would still have 1 million subscribers. Now stop thinking everything you post is right and every piece of information I post is invalid.... If the documents showing subscriptions is wrong about EQ makign it to 550,000 which it isn't then it would be wrong about Lineage having 1.5 million to. It cant go one direction without going the other. And saying the documents are a guestimate also leaves there room for belief that it could be higher than posted meaning maybe 600,000 US subscribers. So if your ready to role on this debate drop the your wrong im right act and prove yourself. You havnt proved anything yet other than we can both find documents on the internet... and we both no NOTHING ON THE WEB IS LIES... EVERYTHING IS REAL.... so the ammount of credit you give any information I find is the same amount I give to yours... one thing you forget the world is more worried about Paris Hiltons resturaunt cravings then troops dying in war.
Sariah, just drop it okay? You don't want to spend a lot of time investigating the current subscribtion of MMO's, thats fine, but then don't come here pretending that you know whats going on.You claiming that every korean MMO has a playerbase of 1 million is laughable at best. There are over 200 different MMO's in Korea, and you claim that each of them has 1 million players. thats next to impossible, considering that Korea only has a population of 49 million people. I never said anything about Everquest subscribtions 550k being wrong, I said that Ragnarok Online's millions of subscribers number is incorrect, because it uses accounts created, not active subscribers/players.Also, the difference between EQ 550k and Lineage's 1,5k is that EQ's 550k subscribtion was its peak, not its current subscriber base. Lineage's current subscriber base is 1,5 million, and I believe it peaked at 4 million a few years back.