dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing. depending on your supplier, it may well cost you quite a bit less than 6 figures too.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
- the bandwidth required per connection while playing is actually very small, typically less than 5KB/sec.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing to try to get high concurrency numbers but frankly this tech has been used for other server applications for many years, it's just been ignored by the conventional game development companies because - i presume - they are more interested in churning games out, not in spending a couplle of years perfecting their server architecture.
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing. depending on your supplier, it may well cost you quite a bit less than 6 figures too.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
- the bandwidth required per connection while playing is actually very small, typically less than 5KB/sec.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing to try to get high concurrency numbers but frankly this tech has been used for other server applications for many years, it's just been ignored by the conventional game development companies because - i presume - they are more interested in churning games out, not in spending a couplle of years perfecting their server architecture.
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
so you're 28 years old and you've been coding professionaly for over 10 years? so you think you were a professional at 18 years old? lol
please come back in another 10 years and then we'll talk
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing.
It is when you don't have it.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
You can have all the bandwidth in the world. It means nothing without a perfectly coded server.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
EVE Online is not a game like Darkfall. It 's in space. It's much easier to do.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
The major area that differentiates engines is THE TOOLS that come with them. TOOLS build good games. Not rendering engines.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
Please point out where they describe their setup beyond some vague bullshit.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing
thats's because their experienced and smart
Darkfall WILL fail. It's not a question of if it will , it's just a question of when it will.
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
so you're 28 years old and you've been coding professionaly for over 10 years? so you think you were a professional at 18 years old? lol
please come back in another 10 years and then we'll talk
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing.
It is when you don't have it.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
You can have all the bandwidth in the world. It means nothing without a perfectly coded server.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
EVE Online is not a game like Darkfall. It 's in space. It's much easier to do.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
The major area that differentiates engines is THE TOOLS that come with them. TOOLS build good games. Not rendering engines.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
Please point out where they describe their setup beyond some vague bullshit.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing
thats's because their experienced and smart
Darkfall WILL fail. It's not a question of if it will , it's just a question of when it will.
to bad you really dont know what your talking about
Starting to rain fanbois in here. Grab an umbrella cause last time I saw someone mindlessly tout a game he got burned by 90% of the people on these forums once it was released. Now no takes him seriously, hes turned into a complete joke.
Seriously dont let this game make you look like a chump. (or at least anymore than it already has)
The way I see it August is do or die month for this project. A new promised video that is supposed to show a full featured game is coming. So either they deliver on this promise soon or fold. The majority of people on the official Darkfall boards are not as blind and stupid as one might think. Sure there's a few there that just belong in a cage somewhere to be experimented on but for the most part if they do not really DELIVER with this video there's going to be a huge backlash.. So will Darkfall be having a sexy party in August or will a cheap Nicaraguan hooker with crabs show up and spoil it all? You know what time it is...
Majority of darkfall forums these days are ex wow players, they just come there to annoy the real fans.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The way I see it August is do or die month for this project. A new promised video that is supposed to show a full featured game is coming. So either they deliver on this promise soon or fold. The majority of people on the official Darkfall boards are not as blind and stupid as one might think. Sure there's a few there that just belong in a cage somewhere to be experimented on but for the most part if they do not really DELIVER with this video there's going to be a huge backlash.. So will Darkfall be having a sexy party in August or will a cheap Nicaraguan hooker with crabs show up and spoil it all? You know what time it is...
Majority of darkfall forums these days are ex wow players, they just come there to annoy the real fans.
Id be willing to bet that most of the "haters" are pissed off fans that got tired fo being manipulated and lied to. Im eagerly awaiting the planting of the tombstone so that I have a place to try out my new dance moves.
I call my first dance the "Frustrated Fanboi Frolick"
I really don't see why most of the people who post are so biased. Ok, the game might now come out. What then? You can't play a game that you've never played before? I think this game could be a really good idea if it works well and comes out, but if it doesn't what does it seriously hurt? You haven't given this company money. You haven't invested time into the game. I would just really like to know how this game is harming people.
I also have to say, just because a company has big ideas doesn't mean that they're lying. Lets think of games in terms of movies. Most movies are the same thing over and over and over again because the company that is producing them knows they will at least turn a little profit. Look at all of the movies that came after Scary Movie and how fast they're coming out with those. This is the same thing in the gaming industry. The major companies are going to want to make something that is already proven because they know it has a higher chance of making them money.
A game like Darkfall, if it comes out and is well made, would be a game like Scary Movie. It'd be a game that spawns these new ideas for features and shows companies (and gamers) that this can be done.
I got off track there for a minute. Anyway, I think everyone shouldn't be so stuck on one side or another. I have a feeling Darkfall won't come out but a video won't really prove that its going to come out either.
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
AmazingXxeon, do me a favor, count all your DF shills, then give that percentage of your total over all posts. Id be willing to bet 80%+ are DF shills. Lets get a new tune on your radio.
dude the client is not in Java. the server *is* the game, where all the world geometry is, the physics, the AI, loot, etc - all the rules of the game are there.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
AmazingXxeon, do me a favor, count all your DF shills, then give that percentage of your total over all posts. Id be willing to bet 80%+ are DF shills. Lets get a new tune on your radio.
You know the funny thing is. If you go back about a month maybe? You'll see post by him admantly denying being a fanboi. Yet he constantly makes these post that say otherwise. Actually I don't think I've ever read more then a few post by him. That didn't suggest he was a hardcore fanboi of DF. He's not even trying to keep up the pretense anymore of being someone that just likes DF. Completely kills any motivation one might have to try to discuss anything with him pretaining to DF.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
AmazingXxeon, do me a favor, count all your DF shills, then give that percentage of your total over all posts. Id be willing to bet 80%+ are DF shills. Lets get a new tune on your radio.
You know the funny thing is. If you go back about a month maybe? You'll see post by him admantly denying being a fanboi. Yet he constantly makes these post that say otherwise. Actually I don't think I've ever read more then a few post by him. That didn't suggest he was a hardcore fanboi of DF. He's not even trying to keep up the pretense anymore of being someone that just likes DF. Completely kills any motivation one might have to try to discuss anything with him pretaining to DF.
What is wrong about being a fanboy? At least he is discussing something he belives in. You guys sure use alot of time on something you don't even belive exist. It's not like you have spent cash on DF, right ?
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
This entire thread is nothing but fail. 99% of you folks posting here probably haven't even been alive long enough to have experienced the best games of their times, yet almost all of you have a so-called genuine, informed opinion. Not one of you people flaming here have expressed anything genuine, or informed.
I'm going to break it down for you. First order of business:
Darkfall is a very good idea. An idea that is taking its time getting here. A lot of time. There's a saying that goes something like "all good things are worth waiting for." Do any of you people remember Duke Nukem? Darkfall might have been in development for around 7 years or something but look at Duke Nukem Forever. They released their newest teaser trailer for DNF circa October or November 2007 and it looks like it will rock face. That game has been in development for even longer than Darkfall. And it's coming from a big name development team. Darkfall and DNF are ideas. Ideas in progression, and I for one certainly hope they don't fall through.
Next order of business:
You kids need to stop with all this nonsense about grafix-this and grafix-that. Obviously you were all born into this video technology revolution where game developers got the idea that spending years worth of time developing a game to look neat in screen shots but play like total shit was an effective marketing approach. GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME FUN OR SUCCESSFUL. Sure, good graphics can make it interesting but features, smoothness, and playability > shiny special effects and having to spend $500 to upgrade your pc. I have a decent rig but I do not want to HAVE to friggin triple-SLI GeForce 9 series video cards just to get 40+ frames in a game. Thats stupid and not worth buying a game that plays like utter shit even with superior hardware a la' AoC.
There's all this talk here about how WoW's graphics are dated and blah blah blah. GOOD. If they don't modernize the graphics engine and their customer's computers can eat it up in frame rate and internet latency that means their first customers DON'T NEED to replace their system to enjoy it, which means it stays successful. You guys can all talk shit about WoW saying it sucks or the grafix and cartoony shit is lame but Blizzard's employees are rofling at you all on their way to the bank with hundreds of millions of dollars in subscriber fees. If the game sucked it wouldn't be such a popular megahit for 4+ years running. People STILL play a little something you might of heard of called "Super Mario Brothers" on a little system you might know about called a Nintendo, around what.. 23-24 years later? 8 bit graphics wasn't what kept SMB alive.. playability and FUN did.
Darkfall may very well be vapourware. It IS a massive project, a groundbreaking and revolutionary project that will change the mmo industry for years to come IF it is successfully launched. It might currently be in the hands of people unable to handle the financial stress and labor stress or such a magnificent idea. But that doesn't mean it can't change hands to a more suitable vendor. It's like they took the greats from the past.. looks like a lot of UO, a bit of Morrowind/Oblivion, and crammed it into a goal with real potential to rock our faces. Who cares about what brand name its going to run under as long as this puppy gets released.
So, in closing, you guys should all PRAY this game gets launched, and learn a thing or two about why it should be launched PROPERLY, even if it takes another few years to get done. Forget about stupid crap like grafix engines and shit talking WoW or whatever other game you want to use as a benchmark of progression for upcoming games. The ideas this developer has detailed for Darkfall should pique you all into giving them your support so we all get to see this monster hit shelves. When it does, games will be forced to get even MORE creative and innovative to be able to compete, which plays out better for us, the consuming gamers. STOP LETTING COMPANIES LIKE FAILCOM GET AWAY WITH RELEASING TOTAL SHIT. We all, regardless of what gaming era we are from, want games that will play like what Darkfall features. Support Darkfall, make it happen, better your gaming experiences.
This entire thread is nothing but fail. 99% of you folks posting here probably haven't even been alive long enough to have experienced the best games of their times, yet almost all of you have a so-called genuine, informed opinion. Not one of you people flaming here have expressed anything genuine, or informed. I'm going to break it down for you. First order of business: Darkfall is a very good idea. An idea that is taking its time getting here. A lot of time. There's a saying that goes something like "all good things are worth waiting for." Do any of you people remember Duke Nukem? Darkfall might have been in development for around 7 years or something but look at Duke Nukem Forever. They released their newest teaser trailer for DNF circa October or November 2007 and it looks like it will rock face. That game has been in development for even longer than Darkfall. And it's coming from a big name development team. Darkfall and DNF are ideas. Ideas in progression, and I for one certainly hope they don't fall through. Next order of business: You kids need to stop with all this nonsense about grafix-this and grafix-that. Obviously you were all born into this video technology revolution where game developers got the idea that spending years worth of time developing a game to look neat in screen shots but play like total shit was an effective marketing approach. GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME FUN OR SUCCESSFUL. Sure, good graphics can make it interesting but features, smoothness, and playability > shiny special effects and having to spend $500 to upgrade your pc. I have a decent rig but I do not want to HAVE to friggin triple-SLI GeForce 9 series video cards just to get 40+ frames in a game. Thats stupid and not worth buying a game that plays like utter shit even with superior hardware a la' AoC. There's all this talk here about how WoW's graphics are dated and blah blah blah. GOOD. If they don't modernize the graphics engine and their customer's computers can eat it up in frame rate and internet latency that means their first customers DON'T NEED to replace their system to enjoy it, which means it stays successful. You guys can all talk shit about WoW saying it sucks or the grafix and cartoony shit is lame but Blizzard's employees are rofling at you all on their way to the bank with hundreds of millions of dollars in subscriber fees. If the game sucked it wouldn't be such a popular megahit for 4+ years running. People STILL play a little something you might of heard of called "Super Mario Brothers" on a little system you might know about called a Nintendo, around what.. 23-24 years later? 8 bit graphics wasn't what kept SMB alive.. playability and FUN did. Darkfall may very well be vapourware. It IS a massive project, a groundbreaking and revolutionary project that will change the mmo industry for years to come IF it is successfully launched. It might currently be in the hands of people unable to handle the financial stress and labor stress or such a magnificent idea. But that doesn't mean it can't change hands to a more suitable vendor. It's like they took the greats from the past.. looks like a lot of UO, a bit of Morrowind/Oblivion, and crammed it into a goal with real potential to rock our faces. Who cares about what brand name its going to run under as long as this puppy gets released. So, in closing, you guys should all PRAY this game gets launched, and learn a thing or two about why it should be launched PROPERLY, even if it takes another few years to get done. Forget about stupid crap like grafix engines and shit talking WoW or whatever other game you want to use as a benchmark of progression for upcoming games. The ideas this developer has detailed for Darkfall should pique you all into giving them your support so we all get to see this monster hit shelves. When it does, games will be forced to get even MORE creative and innovative to be able to compete, which plays out better for us, the consuming gamers. STOP LETTING COMPANIES LIKE FAILCOM GET AWAY WITH RELEASING TOTAL SHIT. We all, regardless of what gaming era we are from, want games that will play like what Darkfall features. Support Darkfall, make it happen, better your gaming experiences. Have a nice day.
lol, this gave me a chuckle... Dude get off your high-horse and quiet down.
You're fanboy rant doesn't change the fact that Darkfall is still 7 year old nonsense.
And Duke Nukem Forever was not in development all this time. If you beleieve that than you're a fool. They simply picked development back up at some point. Or even simply restarted from scratch. It doesn't take years to make a FPS shooter.
I've been a member of this site for quite some time now, an never bothered to post because I didn't feel that any gaming title mentioned on this site was really worth the time it would take me to write all this crap out.
Well now we seem to have one that is quite remarkable so I break my silence and now I'm on a high horse? Admit it. You're just as tired as me, just as tired as all of us, as playing underdeveloped could-have-been-but-wasn't games.
Darkfall, once completed, will be legendary if it even has half of what it claims. I only hope we get to find out one way or the other. At least it's making people's brains tick. The developers are coming up with some damn good stuff. I don't see why I need to be quiet about it.
You're fanboy rant doesn't change the fact that Darkfall is still 7 year old nonsense. And Duke Nukem Forever was not in development all this time. If you beleieve that than you're a fool. They simply picked development back up at some point. Or even simply restarted from scratch. It doesn't take years to make a FPS shooter.
No, it probably doesn't take years to make one. Which explains why most of them SUCK. It does take years to make one that rocks face, however. And FYI, even 3D Realms has stated that DNF has been in constant development except for one period where they had to go through a ton of legal mumbo jumbo concerning the trademark rights to the name of the game. Their original engines were scrapped a few times given the modern ones coming out.
I've been a member of this site for quite some time now
You're just another Darkfall fanboy who just dug up an old username you registered with back in 06.
This is my one and only name on here, I assure you, and I hadn't even heard of Darkfall til yesterday, actually. But after all the reading I've done even YOU have to admit if this project goes live it will be awesome, even if all you want to do is sit there and flame me for being a "fanboy"
And FYI, even 3D Realms has stated that DNF has been in constant development except for one period where they had to go through a ton of legal mumbo jumbo concerning the trademark rights to the name of the game. Their original engines were scrapped a few times given the modern ones coming out.
If that's true than they are just as big of a bunch of incompetent idiots as the Darkfall boys are.
Comparing one incompetent crew to another doesn't make either one of them any good.
And FYI, even 3D Realms has stated that DNF has been in constant development except for one period where they had to go through a ton of legal mumbo jumbo concerning the trademark rights to the name of the game. Their original engines were scrapped a few times given the modern ones coming out.
If that's true than they are just as big of a bunch of incompetent idiots as the Darkfall boys are.
Comparing one incompetent crew to another doesn't make either one of them any good.
Both projects are garbage.
If both Darkfall and DNF projects are both garbage, and have incompetent dev crews, then please point me in the direction of a project that isn't garbage, as I'm tired of playing the same crappy muck box after box, and would like to see some upcoming titles with promise and depth.
I would suggest you go play Asheron's Call on the Darktide server because that is the only MMORPG that is closest to what Darkfall will probably never be.
and the fact that it has older graphics shouldn't bother you since you're earlier rant stated not to complain about graphics.
Comments
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing. depending on your supplier, it may well cost you quite a bit less than 6 figures too.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
- the bandwidth required per connection while playing is actually very small, typically less than 5KB/sec.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing to try to get high concurrency numbers but frankly this tech has been used for other server applications for many years, it's just been ignored by the conventional game development companies because - i presume - they are more interested in churning games out, not in spending a couplle of years perfecting their server architecture.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing. depending on your supplier, it may well cost you quite a bit less than 6 figures too.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
- the bandwidth required per connection while playing is actually very small, typically less than 5KB/sec.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing to try to get high concurrency numbers but frankly this tech has been used for other server applications for many years, it's just been ignored by the conventional game development companies because - i presume - they are more interested in churning games out, not in spending a couplle of years perfecting their server architecture.
funny thing is trogg is right
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
so you're 28 years old and you've been coding professionaly for over 10 years? so you think you were a professional at 18 years old? lol
please come back in another 10 years and then we'll talk
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing.
It is when you don't have it.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
You can have all the bandwidth in the world. It means nothing without a perfectly coded server.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
EVE Online is not a game like Darkfall. It 's in space. It's much easier to do.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
The major area that differentiates engines is THE TOOLS that come with them. TOOLS build good games. Not rendering engines.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
Please point out where they describe their setup beyond some vague bullshit.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing
thats's because their experienced and smart
Darkfall WILL fail. It's not a question of if it will , it's just a question of when it will.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
Well, i've been coding commercial internet-facing applications professionally for over 10 years so i believe i do know a thing or 2 about programming and software development.
so you're 28 years old and you've been coding professionaly for over 10 years? so you think you were a professional at 18 years old? lol
please come back in another 10 years and then we'll talk
you're miles wrong on numerous things:
- 100s of thousands of $$ to build a 50 PC cluster is nothing.
It is when you don't have it.
- 10K simultaneous connections to a well-built load-balanced server is nothing, as long as you have the bandwidth.
You can have all the bandwidth in the world. It means nothing without a perfectly coded server.
- EVE handles > 35K concurrent players every night for example, and the architecture described for DF is much more robust & flexible than EVE's.
EVE Online is not a game like Darkfall. It 's in space. It's much easier to do.
- licenses for the unreal engine start at $300K, anyone can write a 3d game engine, and many people have. they are often written by a single programmer and the amount of code required is relatively small, less than 200K lines for instance. it's the capabilities and speed of the engine that is where the differentiation is.
The major area that differentiates engines is THE TOOLS that come with them. TOOLS build good games. Not rendering engines.
- everything i've read about Darkfall's technical details has been spot on the money for technical accuracy, and has also come across as a really smart way to approach mmo server design de novo.
Please point out where they describe their setup beyond some vague bullshit.
i understand why you're incredulous, you don't see other MMO trying to do asynchronous zone loading, dynamic distribution & load balancing
thats's because their experienced and smart
Darkfall WILL fail. It's not a question of if it will , it's just a question of when it will.
to bad you really dont know what your talking about
Starting to rain fanbois in here. Grab an umbrella cause last time I saw someone mindlessly tout a game he got burned by 90% of the people on these forums once it was released. Now no takes him seriously, hes turned into a complete joke.
Seriously dont let this game make you look like a chump. (or at least anymore than it already has)
Majority of darkfall forums these days are ex wow players, they just come there to annoy the real fans.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Majority of darkfall forums these days are ex wow players, they just come there to annoy the real fans.
Id be willing to bet that most of the "haters" are pissed off fans that got tired fo being manipulated and lied to. Im eagerly awaiting the planting of the tombstone so that I have a place to try out my new dance moves.
I call my first dance the "Frustrated Fanboi Frolick"
after that Ill perform the "Bullshit Bop"
I really don't see why most of the people who post are so biased. Ok, the game might now come out. What then? You can't play a game that you've never played before? I think this game could be a really good idea if it works well and comes out, but if it doesn't what does it seriously hurt? You haven't given this company money. You haven't invested time into the game. I would just really like to know how this game is harming people.
I also have to say, just because a company has big ideas doesn't mean that they're lying. Lets think of games in terms of movies. Most movies are the same thing over and over and over again because the company that is producing them knows they will at least turn a little profit. Look at all of the movies that came after Scary Movie and how fast they're coming out with those. This is the same thing in the gaming industry. The major companies are going to want to make something that is already proven because they know it has a higher chance of making them money.
A game like Darkfall, if it comes out and is well made, would be a game like Scary Movie. It'd be a game that spawns these new ideas for features and shows companies (and gamers) that this can be done.
I got off track there for a minute. Anyway, I think everyone shouldn't be so stuck on one side or another. I have a feeling Darkfall won't come out but a video won't really prove that its going to come out either.
WE'LL GET THE CRABS
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
AmazingXxeon, do me a favor, count all your DF shills, then give that percentage of your total over all posts. Id be willing to bet 80%+ are DF shills. Lets get a new tune on your radio.
Do you even know how much it costs to build a professional grade server for a MMORPG?
It costs hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Why do you think Engines like Hero and Big World cost 1 million dollars to own a license to?
Now please someone tell me how Aventurine with their measly 20 or 30 amateurs can build a professional grade server and networking system capable of supporting 10,000 or even 3,000 people online at once... in a FPS style gameplay setup.
DARKFALL IS A JOKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE
it's never going to happen. EVER.
If Darkfall ever manages to get out of its fucken mythical hidden development behind closed doors phase and enter a public testing period , you will see one of the laggiest , most bug ridden pieces of shit around. Guranteed.
This project is such a fucken joke that I can't even begin to put into words how big of a joke it is. It's simply AMAZING that there's so many jackasses out there who would follow something that is obviously a complete piece of trash pipe dream.
wow sounds like someone is alil pissed off do you need a hug?
o exactully like how all the first mmos where done
AmazingXxeon, do me a favor, count all your DF shills, then give that percentage of your total over all posts. Id be willing to bet 80%+ are DF shills. Lets get a new tune on your radio.
You know the funny thing is. If you go back about a month maybe? You'll see post by him admantly denying being a fanboi. Yet he constantly makes these post that say otherwise. Actually I don't think I've ever read more then a few post by him. That didn't suggest he was a hardcore fanboi of DF. He's not even trying to keep up the pretense anymore of being someone that just likes DF. Completely kills any motivation one might have to try to discuss anything with him pretaining to DF.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
You know the funny thing is. If you go back about a month maybe? You'll see post by him admantly denying being a fanboi. Yet he constantly makes these post that say otherwise. Actually I don't think I've ever read more then a few post by him. That didn't suggest he was a hardcore fanboi of DF. He's not even trying to keep up the pretense anymore of being someone that just likes DF. Completely kills any motivation one might have to try to discuss anything with him pretaining to DF.
What is wrong about being a fanboy? At least he is discussing something he belives in. You guys sure use alot of time on something you don't even belive exist. It's not like you have spent cash on DF, right ?
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Wait... What? Darkfall is still being developed?
Mind boggling aint it
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
This entire thread is nothing but fail. 99% of you folks posting here probably haven't even been alive long enough to have experienced the best games of their times, yet almost all of you have a so-called genuine, informed opinion. Not one of you people flaming here have expressed anything genuine, or informed.
I'm going to break it down for you. First order of business:
Darkfall is a very good idea. An idea that is taking its time getting here. A lot of time. There's a saying that goes something like "all good things are worth waiting for." Do any of you people remember Duke Nukem? Darkfall might have been in development for around 7 years or something but look at Duke Nukem Forever. They released their newest teaser trailer for DNF circa October or November 2007 and it looks like it will rock face. That game has been in development for even longer than Darkfall. And it's coming from a big name development team. Darkfall and DNF are ideas. Ideas in progression, and I for one certainly hope they don't fall through.
Next order of business:
You kids need to stop with all this nonsense about grafix-this and grafix-that. Obviously you were all born into this video technology revolution where game developers got the idea that spending years worth of time developing a game to look neat in screen shots but play like total shit was an effective marketing approach. GRAPHICS DO NOT MAKE A GAME FUN OR SUCCESSFUL. Sure, good graphics can make it interesting but features, smoothness, and playability > shiny special effects and having to spend $500 to upgrade your pc. I have a decent rig but I do not want to HAVE to friggin triple-SLI GeForce 9 series video cards just to get 40+ frames in a game. Thats stupid and not worth buying a game that plays like utter shit even with superior hardware a la' AoC.
There's all this talk here about how WoW's graphics are dated and blah blah blah. GOOD. If they don't modernize the graphics engine and their customer's computers can eat it up in frame rate and internet latency that means their first customers DON'T NEED to replace their system to enjoy it, which means it stays successful. You guys can all talk shit about WoW saying it sucks or the grafix and cartoony shit is lame but Blizzard's employees are rofling at you all on their way to the bank with hundreds of millions of dollars in subscriber fees. If the game sucked it wouldn't be such a popular megahit for 4+ years running. People STILL play a little something you might of heard of called "Super Mario Brothers" on a little system you might know about called a Nintendo, around what.. 23-24 years later? 8 bit graphics wasn't what kept SMB alive.. playability and FUN did.
Darkfall may very well be vapourware. It IS a massive project, a groundbreaking and revolutionary project that will change the mmo industry for years to come IF it is successfully launched. It might currently be in the hands of people unable to handle the financial stress and labor stress or such a magnificent idea. But that doesn't mean it can't change hands to a more suitable vendor. It's like they took the greats from the past.. looks like a lot of UO, a bit of Morrowind/Oblivion, and crammed it into a goal with real potential to rock our faces. Who cares about what brand name its going to run under as long as this puppy gets released.
So, in closing, you guys should all PRAY this game gets launched, and learn a thing or two about why it should be launched PROPERLY, even if it takes another few years to get done. Forget about stupid crap like grafix engines and shit talking WoW or whatever other game you want to use as a benchmark of progression for upcoming games. The ideas this developer has detailed for Darkfall should pique you all into giving them your support so we all get to see this monster hit shelves. When it does, games will be forced to get even MORE creative and innovative to be able to compete, which plays out better for us, the consuming gamers. STOP LETTING COMPANIES LIKE FAILCOM GET AWAY WITH RELEASING TOTAL SHIT. We all, regardless of what gaming era we are from, want games that will play like what Darkfall features. Support Darkfall, make it happen, better your gaming experiences.
Have a nice day.
lol, this gave me a chuckle... Dude get off your high-horse and quiet down.
You're fanboy rant doesn't change the fact that Darkfall is still 7 year old nonsense.
And Duke Nukem Forever was not in development all this time. If you beleieve that than you're a fool. They simply picked development back up at some point. Or even simply restarted from scratch. It doesn't take years to make a FPS shooter.
I've been a member of this site for quite some time now, an never bothered to post because I didn't feel that any gaming title mentioned on this site was really worth the time it would take me to write all this crap out.
Well now we seem to have one that is quite remarkable so I break my silence and now I'm on a high horse? Admit it. You're just as tired as me, just as tired as all of us, as playing underdeveloped could-have-been-but-wasn't games.
Darkfall, once completed, will be legendary if it even has half of what it claims. I only hope we get to find out one way or the other. At least it's making people's brains tick. The developers are coming up with some damn good stuff. I don't see why I need to be quiet about it.
You're just another Darkfall fanboy who just dug up an old username you registered with back in 06.
You're just another Darkfall fanboy who just dug up an old username you registered with back in 06.
This is my one and only name on here, I assure you, and I hadn't even heard of Darkfall til yesterday, actually. But after all the reading I've done even YOU have to admit if this project goes live it will be awesome, even if all you want to do is sit there and flame me for being a "fanboy"
If that's true than they are just as big of a bunch of incompetent idiots as the Darkfall boys are.
Comparing one incompetent crew to another doesn't make either one of them any good.
Both projects are garbage.
If that's true than they are just as big of a bunch of incompetent idiots as the Darkfall boys are.
Comparing one incompetent crew to another doesn't make either one of them any good.
Both projects are garbage.
If both Darkfall and DNF projects are both garbage, and have incompetent dev crews, then please point me in the direction of a project that isn't garbage, as I'm tired of playing the same crappy muck box after box, and would like to see some upcoming titles with promise and depth.
I would suggest you go play Asheron's Call on the Darktide server because that is the only MMORPG that is closest to what Darkfall will probably never be.
and the fact that it has older graphics shouldn't bother you since you're earlier rant stated not to complain about graphics.