I didn't read everything. But I am a semi casual player. I play abotu 1-2 hrs a day. sometimes more on the weekend. i was able to solo from lvl 1-40 in about 6-7 weeks. The difference between non set gear of different levels is not huge.
So in short, no you don't have to paly 40 hrs a week to be competetive.
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Don't feed the unemployed elitist trolls people. What the OP was saying, simply , is that for a working class stiff ( you know, the guys who pay for the hardcore gamers unemployment) how possible is it to move ahead in the game.
Simple answer? this game is a casual gamers dream come true. No waiting for groups, 99% of the game content is playable by those who have limited time. It has completely flipped, what this guys impression of an mmo should be on end. You can hardcore all you want, but ultimately in the end when the "casuals" get there, you will still only be very marginally better and they will still be the ones with a paycheck and a future, unlike scrubs like this.
People like this have to understand, casuals aren't whining because a worthless pile of human flesh who sits on his arse 18+hrs a day get 40% better gear. They are complaining, because they can't enjoy the content they paid for, they have "no" chance because of their life, to get said gear because it is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for dirt-bags with no jobs or real life obligations. Have you ever seen the old screenshots of hardcore EQ raiders or those guys doing the wow competitions? it's sick, they are such social outcasts you actually feel sorry for them. Warhammer, simply, does not cater to these type of people. Mark Jacobs already stated that.
He said it in a demeaning trollish fashion that got the negative response it was bound to receive. I'm casual and can sympathize, but don't be patronizing about it. If the highlighted text seems ok to you, then you're not very objective.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I have been a casual gamer fsince 1998 With UO,then on too EQ. This game sounds like it would be fun for some of us who have Real lives. See you people on PW.
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
I am an elder tester and have been in the beta for a year.
This is a casual friendly game.
Teamwork and skill trump gear.
Gear is still important, but as much as your used to from other mmos.
You as a casual player have access to the same rewards as hardcore players but it will take you longer to get those rewards.
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
I am an elder tester and have been in the beta for a year.
This is a casual friendly game.
Teamwork and skill trump gear.
Gear is still important, but as much as your used to from other mmos.
You as a casual player have access to the same rewards as hardcore players but it will take you longer to get those rewards.
The definition of casual seems quite misconstrued in this thread. Casual, in its finest sense in the world of MMOs, means someone who spends what time they have to commit to gaming, where this time is much less than they wish to due to real-life obligations. (Though most may wish more time to game, I’m speaking of those who spend minimal time playing due to this).
It does not mean casual gamers are lazy.
It does not mean non-casual gamers are fanatics.
It means that those who term themselves as a casual gamer wish to utilize her/his game-time to its best benefit. Some games allow this, some do not.
Asking if a certain game allows this is not a derisive comment against those who play long hours compared to the average, or below, player. It is simply a question of does each type of player get the same benefit per time in the long run.
So-called casual-gamers are not all glistening here, either, of course. Some do wish to gain more than they barter for. Just because they have a limited time doesn't reconcile the idea that they are all-deserving.
But the OP, nor any of the replies I have read (I admit I stopped somewhere around page 8ish), seem to ask for more than they are playing for. They ask if their time equals the time of others. If you take one character who has spent x hours in game, and compare it to another character who has spent the same x hours in game, does it matter how long it has taken them to reach this potential? Are the rewards greater for those who sprint rather than dally?
I feel like I can speak to this since I have been both a casual and a “regular” player (with regular being a polite term of someone who plays every day, oft times pissing off his wife—personally speaking, at least). Spending ten hours playing over a month or a week or a night should show no differences, in an individual game, at least.
But even if it does, how does asking if a game meets ones hopes prior to playing it impose any difficulties on others? Wouldn’t you hope for an honest answer for your question, no matter what your ideology when it comes to gaming? How can a question, asked in earnest, garner ire from anyone, whether they differ in simple philosophies of how much time one devotes to personal interests? Bitter is a funny word. And being bitter is a useless pursuit. Accusing others of bitterness, unwarranted, is probably equally as unjust as being so, and often seems to be recriminate of this defining word
I don't think you guys are actually reading the comments or looking at the name associated with it. The only person really arguing with you guys about casual vs hardcore is Rabenwolf and he was initially responding to the OP's trollish comments. So far it's about 20 casuals vs 1 Rabenwolf.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Spot on.
Nope, way off. This is a misconception that hardcores have. Casuals do not care if it takes 100 or even 1000 hours of play to get something. What they care about is the ability to make progress towards such a goal in their 5-15 hours of play time per week.
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This game is the most casual mmo I've played. It's so casual that the hardcores may actually be penalised. This means if you level too fast, there won't be enough people to queue for scenarios, take keeps/objectives and fight in RvR contested zones. Thus your renown points will suffer compared to someone who casually levels up with the herd. The casual vs hardcore debate has been going on forever. I think the best middle ground is using the law of diminishing returns. The hardcores get superior gear/abilities but not unbalancing stuff and progressively more slowly. Sorta like making an increasingly steeper slope. A totally unrewarding system for hardcores won't work. It's like communism everyone wants a reward sometime and if they don't they don't play. In any MMO there must be progression and balance but it's hard to cater to both. If there is no progression whatsoever, then why is it not an FPS. The other option is to objective server-wide progression which WAR does with RvR, Living cities etc. (IMHO they have underdone some of the stuff like renown rewards to make it marginally useless) WAR stops the ganking with higher level players being turned into chickens. This is good for casuals who want to level up slowly as well. No more cowardly WOWesqe STV grief ganking to +++ ur 3-p33n.
After four pages someone finally wrote a decently coherent retort to Rabenwolf (not that one is needed, the majority of his posts were near outright attacks on casual gamers). I agree with the major point made here:
The best middle ground is using the law of diminishing returns.
(One example of this comes from Shadowbane - disregarding its other issues - where players received skill points ever level; however the amount of skill points received from leveling decreased as the player reached higher and higher levels. They referred to this as a 'soft cap'.)
The issue lies in achieving a balance that keeps the maximum number of people happy. Of course, this assumes that this is the primary goal of the developers - it may not be.
Hardcore gamers should be rewarded for the effort they put into the game. However, the reward should not put them at such great advantage that a casual gamer of equal level and skill is completely torn apart due to their greater gear.
It is pretty simple. The hardcore gamers who complain and disagree with me are simply selfish whiners who are afraid of what will happen if they don't have such a large advantage over casual gamers.
In the end, I think it benefits everyone. Having such a large advantage gets lame and boring after time. Challenging battles are much more engaging and interesting in the long run.
...The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre....
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
Are you guys incapable of commenting on casual gaming without calling the others lifeless losers? It's not necissary and turns your whole point into nothing but a trollish flame.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
The definition of casual seems quite misconstrued in this thread. Casual, in its finest sense in the world of MMOs, means someone who spends what time they have to commit to gaming, where this time is much less than they wish to due to real-life obligations. (Though most may wish more time to game, I’m speaking of those who spend minimal time playing due to this).
It does not mean casual gamers are lazy.
It does not mean non-casual gamers are fanatics.
It means that those who term themselves as a casual gamer wish to utilize her/his game-time to its best benefit. Some games allow this, some do not.
Asking if a certain game allows this is not a derisive comment against those who play long hours compared to the average, or below, player. It is simply a question of does each type of player get the same benefit per time in the long run.
So-called casual-gamers are not all glistening here, either, of course. Some do wish to gain more than they barter for. Just because they have a limited time doesn't reconcile the idea that they are all-deserving.
But the OP, nor any of the replies I have read (I admit I stopped somewhere around page 8ish), seem to ask for more than they are playing for. They ask if their time equals the time of others. If you take one character who has spent x hours in game, and compare it to another character who has spent the same x hours in game, does it matter how long it has taken them to reach this potential? Are the rewards greater for those who sprint rather than dally?
I feel like I can speak to this since I have been both a casual and a “regular” player (with regular being a polite term of someone who plays every day, oft times pissing off his wife—personally speaking, at least). Spending ten hours playing over a month or a week or a night should show no differences, in an individual game, at least.
But even if it does, how does asking if a game meets ones hopes prior to playing it impose any difficulties on others? Wouldn’t you hope for an honest answer for your question, no matter what your ideology when it comes to gaming? How can a question, asked in earnest, garner ire from anyone, whether they differ in simple philosophies of how much time one devotes to personal interests? Bitter is a funny word. And being bitter is a useless pursuit. Accusing others of bitterness, unwarranted, is probably equally as unjust as being so, and often seems to be recriminate of this defining word
J.S. Mills
11 posts in 5 years! When you decide to speak you really must have a passion for the topic. Take heed of what this guy says people, his wisdom has sadly had to be extracted here because things were getting out of hand and hopefully we can move to a new topic now, thanks J.S. Mills.
...The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre....
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
...The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre....
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
... Are you being facetious?
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
...The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre....
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
Aye, gear is bad. I'd like something like Guild Wars ( this is probably my 100th comparison to that game... It's been my second favorite game ever played) where gear in PvP is something that anyone can get, although not right away, very very easily and quickly by learning the basics. And for those that want to be "hardcore" they could get different "skins" for their armor... meaning their armor stats don't change, just makes them look a lot more detailed and generally better looking. It was a great way for people to tell who was good and who was bad because you earned those skins by being good. And the good thing about them, is that they really don't change anything other then how you look. So you still have an equal chance of beating that "good" person if you were "bad"... but chances are you'd lose simply because the guy has more experience.
From what I hear (and certainly hope) this game won't be greatly based on gear (or to the extent WoW has made itself). This is one of my bigger concerns that I'd like to see feedback of from beta testers.
I don't think you guys are actually reading the comments or looking at the name associated with it. The only person really arguing with you guys about casual vs hardcore is Rabenwolf and he was initially responding to the OP's trollish comments. So far it's about 20 casuals vs 1 Rabenwolf.
Im back, got off work and spent some time at a bar in Hollywood. (yeah, i have a life too, ironic isnt it?)
I appreciate you being one of the very few whos eyes are unclouded.
The chances are, some of these self proclaimed "casual gamers" will end up playing more than I will, yet the difference in mentality is clear.
To everyone else to some degree...
Still posters here are not realizing a very very vital design feature within the RPG genre. That feature being CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
AKA, the skill comes from the character not exactly the player. This is the key difference in game mechanics from what is considered an RPG and an Action and or FPS.
When player skill comes before your characters skill, you then lose the RPG aspect. This fact has been around in game design theory for years. RPGs are about your characters skills, not your own. You build your character, his skills limit your own skills, not the other way around. That said, if a character works hard to get the upper hand, his character is what earned it, and thus should NOT be penalized by the "casual" gamer, who feels that since they lost because of X item or lack of Y skill, that there fore the hard core gamer is a kid who has no life and is pathetic, while they themselves are perfect image of perfect gamer. Because of this it is not fair that they lose in any way.
Some of you just dont quite understand the point of the casual gamer mentality that has caused so much ire in the game industry.
Most of you are no doubt comparing WoW to everything, even then while WoW rewards those to spend time earning the better items, it does not diminish the fact that those items = Character stats and that character stats = character skill, which is the WHOLE POINT OF RPGS.
In a fps like counter strike or unreal tournament. It is all about player skill, not character skill. Remember this as we are not playing the FPS genre.
In one of the first true fantasy books of all time, did Bilbo Baggins automatically have equal power when he faced his enemies or did he end up learning from his XP and finding a magical ring of power, WHICH gave him the upper hand in most senarios?
If you study game design theory, the first thing they teach you is the type of challenges that exist within a genre. RPGs have always been about character challenges, not player challenges, though player challenges are a by product of their character challenges, the growth of the character, like the rule set, limits how good you are.
If a bad player with the godly armor of ultimate power loses to the naked skilled player, then you dont have an rpg that relies on character skill but more about well... fps skill and alienation (the destroyer of immersion). If you have something better on your CHARACTER it means that CHARACTER is more powerful.
While i do not personally enjoy WoW's complete gear depended via large raid gameplay, they still use the character skill vs player skill requirement of an rpg.
Thus in essence, the game should not be purely skill based unless you have the same build, character progression and items as another player, other wise you should be at a disadvantage, while you still should have a chance, especially in groups.
Still posters here are not realizing a very very vital design feature within the RPG genre. That feature being CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. AKA, the skill comes from the character not exactly the player. This is the key difference in game mechanics from what is considered an RPG and an Action and or FPS.
Who made you God in determining what a game should be about? Games are put into categories based on features and mechanics, however that does not mean that they are all alike nor that they should follow all the typical conventions of that category. In fact, I often find that games that can successfully combine features and mechanics from different genres to be more fun and interesting.
Hmm /assist and effective healing classes. I believe you casual players who tend to like to mindless zerg and stuff are in trouble versus good 6 and12man grps.
I don't think you guys are actually reading the comments or looking at the name associated with it. The only person really arguing with you guys about casual vs hardcore is Rabenwolf and he was initially responding to the OP's trollish comments. So far it's about 20 casuals vs 1 Rabenwolf.
Im back, got off work and spent some time at a bar in Hollywood. (yeah, i have a life too, ironic isnt it?)
I appreciate you being one of the very few whos eyes are unclouded.
Just don't confuse my admonishment of fellow casual players as agreement with your views. You have some very biased and unfounded views IMO, but I'm not going to call you a nolife loser because I disagree with you.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Dont be so hard m8 , i am now a casual player, and i miss the time when i inspected hardcore players in wow before tbc. Hardcore players is what keeps me going. Its not that i need everything, i know its there, if i want to i can get it. When i know there is super imba stuff, maby ill never get them, but they are still there. Then i know i can progress very far in this game IF i want to.
I have that feeling in EVE, maby i never progress like lots of others in the game, but i can do if i want, thats the really important stuff in mmo if you ask me. Any how, i was so glad when i saw the PQ system, its awsome for us casuals. And i really hope for those who work damn hard will get their payoff, so i can inspect and admire. Thats a big carrot in mmo, TBC took all that away =/.
Dread can you please link the part or any onther part where i have said i think i am entitled to the same reward as anyone else in the game? please.
I or even go through any of my post history and find just one single instance where i have said that.
what i have said is that i feel i should have the same opurtunity as anyone else in the gme, be they casual/ hardcore or ny other label. by that i am not saying i should be able to achieve them, some things in games should be only achievable to the most die hard players, but every player that pays for that game should have the opurtunity to reach them if they put the same effort in.
I was thinking last night about this thread and trying to go through what i had wrote. and while i still believe i have the term casual correct. Obviously i understand that it's only my abrevition of it. So is there anyone out there qualified to actually put this to bed and explain what casual should mean.
The story of two business men. Business man 1 and 2 both have the same job. Business man 1 spends more time at work and makes more money than business man 2. Business man 2 spends as little time at is job as possible, just enough to get him through life. The rest of the time he spends going out and doing other tasks, which he deems as having a life. At the next company event, the CEO announces that there will be a car race and that the winner will get a bonus. So all of the business men picked to participate line up on a cleared road. Business man 1 wins and business man 2 complains, "hey thats not fair you have an expensive sports car"!!! The business man 1 looks at the cheap minivan that Business man 2 is driving. Business man 1 states "well thats what you picked to race with". Business man 2 gets mad and says "but i have a life, i dont want to have to work more hours to get enough income to buy a sports car"! The business man 1 replies "well why are you upset that you lost then? should I have driven slowly so you won?" Business man 2 stomps his feet "of course i should had a chance, you get all the nice cars, boats, suits, its not fair! I am not having fun because you have more than me". Business man 1 looks at him and says "its what i worked for to get, i am responsible for my own time and rewards. I dont feel superior about it, but it does feel nice to get the nicer things in life when you work for them." Business man 2 replies "Then we should make it so that everyone has the same thing. Just because I have a life!" Business man 1 returns "so you want communism?" then shakes his head and walks away. I like what this one developer said... Steve M: "Casual" is the term that I always use. I like the definition, first put forward by Dave Rohrl at Pogo, that casual gamers are players who would never list "playing games" as one of their primary interests. I also like to say that for a casual game to be successful, you should be able to write everything you need to know to play the game on one side of an index card.
So business man 1 would be the casual? He obviously would have no time for games?
You seem to be confusing 'time' with 'smarts'. Sure a casual will put less time in but does that make them less smart. In my experience (in business and games) it's the monkeys that are prepared to repeat the same simple task over and over for a peanut reward that are the 'hardcore'. Needless to say you need to be able to write this task on an index card for them or they get confused. Who's the smart one?
One day when you grow up and get a job you will learn that working smart is just as important as the time you put in (unless you get a job like flipping burgers). Strive to be rewarded for your knowledge rather than your time and you'll do well.
You can create 1 characer in 1 minute. Has son you enter the map, click "Enter battleground". You first quest, or 2 th quest will ding you to level 2. Then the battleground will start. As level 2, you will still be able to kill people and have fun, because the game will autolevel you to 8 for the battleground. Until you run into players 38 Ranks higher than you. This mean, in something like 3 minutes, you will be kicking ass of other players. more like dieing every 3 minutes to players that out rank you, or ZERG groups that roll thru you. Theres no other MMO where in 3 minutes you can be doing quest AND pvp AND exploring, etc.. Shadowbane, UO and a few others for starters. WAR excels at casuals, IMHO. To a very small degree yes, otherwise wait till release and your hardcore players power level and roll thru everyone that starts fresh and tries to PvP at lower Ranks. Anyway... IANC YMMV.
Have you even played the game? It's designed to not allow higher levels to participate in lower Tier RvR. AT ALL. So nothing you said had any validity.
Not allowed?
bad move mark my words splitting up the game into seperate areas where only certian levels of players can be involved and fight each other is going to hurt in the long run.
I could see having areas that you cant get to until a certian level, but making RvR combat level restricted??
I think it's onyl tier restricted though! kinda like doing a WG in wow. So a level 10 could fight a level 19 and so on. which at the least will stop low level ganking, which can only be a good thing.
Comments
I didn't read everything. But I am a semi casual player. I play abotu 1-2 hrs a day. sometimes more on the weekend. i was able to solo from lvl 1-40 in about 6-7 weeks. The difference between non set gear of different levels is not huge.
So in short, no you don't have to paly 40 hrs a week to be competetive.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Don't feed the unemployed elitist trolls people. What the OP was saying, simply , is that for a working class stiff ( you know, the guys who pay for the hardcore gamers unemployment) how possible is it to move ahead in the game.
Simple answer? this game is a casual gamers dream come true. No waiting for groups, 99% of the game content is playable by those who have limited time. It has completely flipped, what this guys impression of an mmo should be on end. You can hardcore all you want, but ultimately in the end when the "casuals" get there, you will still only be very marginally better and they will still be the ones with a paycheck and a future, unlike scrubs like this.
People like this have to understand, casuals aren't whining because a worthless pile of human flesh who sits on his arse 18+hrs a day get 40% better gear. They are complaining, because they can't enjoy the content they paid for, they have "no" chance because of their life, to get said gear because it is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for dirt-bags with no jobs or real life obligations. Have you ever seen the old screenshots of hardcore EQ raiders or those guys doing the wow competitions? it's sick, they are such social outcasts you actually feel sorry for them. Warhammer, simply, does not cater to these type of people. Mark Jacobs already stated that.
He said it in a demeaning trollish fashion that got the negative response it was bound to receive. I'm casual and can sympathize, but don't be patronizing about it. If the highlighted text seems ok to you, then you're not very objective.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I have been a casual gamer fsince 1998 With UO,then on too EQ. This game sounds like it would be fun for some of us who have Real lives. See you people on PW.
Have No Fear Cohas is here!!!
I am an elder tester and have been in the beta for a year.
This is a casual friendly game.
Teamwork and skill trump gear.
Gear is still important, but as much as your used to from other mmos.
You as a casual player have access to the same rewards as hardcore players but it will take you longer to get those rewards.
casual, and small group friendly.
I am an elder tester and have been in the beta for a year.
This is a casual friendly game.
Teamwork and skill trump gear.
Gear is still important, but as much as your used to from other mmos.
You as a casual player have access to the same rewards as hardcore players but it will take you longer to get those rewards.
casual, and small group friendly.
Yes, that was the answer I was looking for.
I don't think you guys are actually reading the comments or looking at the name associated with it. The only person really arguing with you guys about casual vs hardcore is Rabenwolf and he was initially responding to the OP's trollish comments. So far it's about 20 casuals vs 1 Rabenwolf.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Spot on.
Nope, way off. This is a misconception that hardcores have. Casuals do not care if it takes 100 or even 1000 hours of play to get something. What they care about is the ability to make progress towards such a goal in their 5-15 hours of play time per week.
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After four pages someone finally wrote a decently coherent retort to Rabenwolf (not that one is needed, the majority of his posts were near outright attacks on casual gamers). I agree with the major point made here:
The best middle ground is using the law of diminishing returns.
(One example of this comes from Shadowbane - disregarding its other issues - where players received skill points ever level; however the amount of skill points received from leveling decreased as the player reached higher and higher levels. They referred to this as a 'soft cap'.)
The issue lies in achieving a balance that keeps the maximum number of people happy. Of course, this assumes that this is the primary goal of the developers - it may not be.
Hardcore gamers should be rewarded for the effort they put into the game. However, the reward should not put them at such great advantage that a casual gamer of equal level and skill is completely torn apart due to their greater gear.
It is pretty simple. The hardcore gamers who complain and disagree with me are simply selfish whiners who are afraid of what will happen if they don't have such a large advantage over casual gamers.
In the end, I think it benefits everyone. Having such a large advantage gets lame and boring after time. Challenging battles are much more engaging and interesting in the long run.
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
nearly everything is about balance
balance Casual vs. Hardcore
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Are you guys incapable of commenting on casual gaming without calling the others lifeless losers? It's not necissary and turns your whole point into nothing but a trollish flame.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
11 posts in 5 years! When you decide to speak you really must have a passion for the topic.
Take heed of what this guy says people, his wisdom has sadly had to be extracted here because things were getting out of hand and hopefully we can move to a new topic now, thanks J.S. Mills.
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
... Are you being facetious?
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I want a game that focuses on skill = more reward. Not time played, like the majority of us that are actual casual gamers (you know, have lives and all). Everyone should have an equal chance to be the #1 player on the server and the #1 should be the best because he was able to beat the best solely on his skill, not because he had an advantage over them in gear because he spent 18 hours raiding an epic boss and for his 20th time finally got that epic sword he had wanted.
What you, and I as well, would like is a game that isn't gear dependant. Unfortunately, I don't know of any upcoming games that chose this route. It would end all arguments between harcore and casual gamers as well as take gaming back to a thing of skill rather than time played.
Aye, gear is bad. I'd like something like Guild Wars ( this is probably my 100th comparison to that game... It's been my second favorite game ever played) where gear in PvP is something that anyone can get, although not right away, very very easily and quickly by learning the basics. And for those that want to be "hardcore" they could get different "skins" for their armor... meaning their armor stats don't change, just makes them look a lot more detailed and generally better looking. It was a great way for people to tell who was good and who was bad because you earned those skins by being good. And the good thing about them, is that they really don't change anything other then how you look. So you still have an equal chance of beating that "good" person if you were "bad"... but chances are you'd lose simply because the guy has more experience.
From what I hear (and certainly hope) this game won't be greatly based on gear (or to the extent WoW has made itself). This is one of my bigger concerns that I'd like to see feedback of from beta testers.
Im back, got off work and spent some time at a bar in Hollywood. (yeah, i have a life too, ironic isnt it?)
I appreciate you being one of the very few whos eyes are unclouded.
The chances are, some of these self proclaimed "casual gamers" will end up playing more than I will, yet the difference in mentality is clear.
To everyone else to some degree...
Still posters here are not realizing a very very vital design feature within the RPG genre. That feature being CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
AKA, the skill comes from the character not exactly the player. This is the key difference in game mechanics from what is considered an RPG and an Action and or FPS.
When player skill comes before your characters skill, you then lose the RPG aspect. This fact has been around in game design theory for years. RPGs are about your characters skills, not your own. You build your character, his skills limit your own skills, not the other way around. That said, if a character works hard to get the upper hand, his character is what earned it, and thus should NOT be penalized by the "casual" gamer, who feels that since they lost because of X item or lack of Y skill, that there fore the hard core gamer is a kid who has no life and is pathetic, while they themselves are perfect image of perfect gamer. Because of this it is not fair that they lose in any way.
Some of you just dont quite understand the point of the casual gamer mentality that has caused so much ire in the game industry.
Most of you are no doubt comparing WoW to everything, even then while WoW rewards those to spend time earning the better items, it does not diminish the fact that those items = Character stats and that character stats = character skill, which is the WHOLE POINT OF RPGS.
In a fps like counter strike or unreal tournament. It is all about player skill, not character skill. Remember this as we are not playing the FPS genre.
In one of the first true fantasy books of all time, did Bilbo Baggins automatically have equal power when he faced his enemies or did he end up learning from his XP and finding a magical ring of power, WHICH gave him the upper hand in most senarios?
If you study game design theory, the first thing they teach you is the type of challenges that exist within a genre. RPGs have always been about character challenges, not player challenges, though player challenges are a by product of their character challenges, the growth of the character, like the rule set, limits how good you are.
If a bad player with the godly armor of ultimate power loses to the naked skilled player, then you dont have an rpg that relies on character skill but more about well... fps skill and alienation (the destroyer of immersion). If you have something better on your CHARACTER it means that CHARACTER is more powerful.
While i do not personally enjoy WoW's complete gear depended via large raid gameplay, they still use the character skill vs player skill requirement of an rpg.
Thus in essence, the game should not be purely skill based unless you have the same build, character progression and items as another player, other wise you should be at a disadvantage, while you still should have a chance, especially in groups.
Who made you God in determining what a game should be about? Games are put into categories based on features and mechanics, however that does not mean that they are all alike nor that they should follow all the typical conventions of that category. In fact, I often find that games that can successfully combine features and mechanics from different genres to be more fun and interesting.
" What’s the story for us “casuals”? "
Hmm /assist and effective healing classes. I believe you casual players who tend to like to mindless zerg and stuff are in trouble versus good 6 and12man grps.
Good luck to ya though m8.
Im back, got off work and spent some time at a bar in Hollywood. (yeah, i have a life too, ironic isnt it?)
I appreciate you being one of the very few whos eyes are unclouded.
Just don't confuse my admonishment of fellow casual players as agreement with your views. You have some very biased and unfounded views IMO, but I'm not going to call you a nolife loser because I disagree with you.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Dont be so hard m8
, i am now a casual player, and i miss the time when i inspected hardcore players in wow before tbc. Hardcore players is what keeps me going. Its not that i need everything, i know its there, if i want to i can get it. When i know there is super imba stuff, maby ill never get them, but they are still there. Then i know i can progress very far in this game IF i want to.
I have that feeling in EVE, maby i never progress like lots of others in the game, but i can do if i want, thats the really important stuff in mmo if you ask me. Any how, i was so glad when i saw the PQ system, its awsome for us casuals. And i really hope for those who work damn hard will get their payoff, so i can inspect and admire. Thats a big carrot in mmo, TBC took all that away =/.
Dread can you please link the part or any onther part where i have said i think i am entitled to the same reward as anyone else in the game? please.
I or even go through any of my post history and find just one single instance where i have said that.
what i have said is that i feel i should have the same opurtunity as anyone else in the gme, be they casual/ hardcore or ny other label. by that i am not saying i should be able to achieve them, some things in games should be only achievable to the most die hard players, but every player that pays for that game should have the opurtunity to reach them if they put the same effort in.
I was thinking last night about this thread and trying to go through what i had wrote. and while i still believe i have the term casual correct. Obviously i understand that it's only my abrevition of it. So is there anyone out there qualified to actually put this to bed and explain what casual should mean.
So business man 1 would be the casual? He obviously would have no time for games?
You seem to be confusing 'time' with 'smarts'. Sure a casual will put less time in but does that make them less smart. In my experience (in business and games) it's the monkeys that are prepared to repeat the same simple task over and over for a peanut reward that are the 'hardcore'. Needless to say you need to be able to write this task on an index card for them or they get confused. Who's the smart one?
One day when you grow up and get a job you will learn that working smart is just as important as the time you put in (unless you get a job like flipping burgers). Strive to be rewarded for your knowledge rather than your time and you'll do well.
Have you even played the game? It's designed to not allow higher levels to participate in lower Tier RvR. AT ALL. So nothing you said had any validity.
Not allowed?
bad move mark my words splitting up the game into seperate areas where only certian levels of players can be involved and fight each other is going to hurt in the long run.
I could see having areas that you cant get to until a certian level, but making RvR combat level restricted??
I think it's onyl tier restricted though! kinda like doing a WG in wow. So a level 10 could fight a level 19 and so on. which at the least will stop low level ganking, which can only be a good thing.