For me WoW was just alot better when you could actually see the players that made a real effort and commitment in the game by the gear they wore in major cities. TBC gave gear to anyone that could field a 2v2 arena team. Heroics that gave gear comparable to tier 5 and 6 with only a month or so of farming. You can't even tell who puts the time in to WoW anymore. Players are rewarded for sucking in WoW now. Back before TBC if you blew at pvp you didn't hit rank 14 and if you sucked at raiding you were stuck in MC and the first two bosses in BWL forever while the good players had AQ and Naxx gear on. You stood out if you were a good player that actually put the time into the game. Now everyone will kill arthus in a 10 man raid and walk around in gear only 1 tier level lower than the elite players.... wtf is that all about. I'm glad I quit a while ago. Imo if you suck you should be in blues and BOE AH epics while the players that invest more time and skill sit in Gear 3-4 tiers above grandma and little timmy. WoW was fun Pre TBC now its just terribly lame... for me anyway.
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss. As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
No problem m8. I ve been there the last 3 nights and you'll stand in awe.
Don't forget Strand either. Both are great additions. Those who don't believe they added good PvP, no problem. Stay with War. I know where the action is.
Let's face it, ALL pve and raid WOTLK content was beaten by the best guild 2 days after release, and most of the top 50-100 guilds have now cleared all of it also. It will take 1 more week for most of the good raiding guilds to complete all of it - including malygos, full naxx 25 etc Then everyone and their granny who has never played a computer game will be able to kill Kelthuzad and Malygos. Sad but true, WoW is just dumb now. WoW has been dumbed down so that anyone with a keyboard can complete it and get their epics. It's boring to know everyone has full epics and there's no variety, no sense of achievement. There's simply no point to WoW any more. It's not fun, and it's too easy. It's pointless.
WAR may not be as polished, but it is more fun. I play with a good top-end guild, we are killing bosses in Lost Vale that are harder than any boss in WOTLK (order doesn't have repel) And the mass PVP with zone control throughout the actual game map (rather than some instances lake BG aka AV2) is more fun than crappy arena duels and the same BGs again and again. I see a lot of people who have now completed WoW/WOTLK looking around saying "is that all there is?" I'm happy playing WAR
Even if WotLK truly has very little content it doesn't bother me. Considering I have a life and other things to do with my time, I only have very limited time to play. So all this means to me is that I just might be able to see the end game and get some nice epics before another expac comes out, (or before i die. whichever comes first). And the big thing you need to think about is, even though it is short is it still fun to play through? Blizzard went ahead and made 2 different start zones this time around, so once you finish one story/quest line with one character, you can do the other with another character. I played WAR for a while but I'm not going to state the problems I found with the game here specifically. But in a general sense I just felt disconnected with my character and nothing seemed fluid/smooth enough to get me into the action.
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
No offence taken.
No I never did get to see ZA or beyond, and who knows I may never see past Naxx but I would like to believe that I could. I do feel for the hardcore but like I stated the hard core are in the small minority and Blizz wants to appease the majority. So far in Wrath im having a blast, it actually seems like im leveling rather slow but I am having fun, a lot of very unique quests.
I have played wow since release and I never did get to experience a 40 maner but I did get to do Kara alot and I know some might say that Kara was easy mode but for me it was a blast.
Not really sure how Blizz can make the casuals happy and not offend the hardcore?
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
So why aren't you playing Wow then?
Because it is the most difficult MMORPG to obtain the highest PvP gear with required PvP ratings as high as 2200+ personal ratings. Only a few people per server (if any !) will get the full PvP gear set.
Is that not hardcore enough??? Because 99% will never have these ratings. So you are not even playing a game where you can have a unique title and a unique Pvp set only available to the very highest elite?
isn't that hardcore enough? And I also would like to ask: what's your standing in WotLK now? You're on which raid? Before having an opinion should'nt you try it first?
its useless to compare wow and war for now.. cuz wow is a conformed game.. war is just at the begining.. remeber the wow's 1st times it was annoying.. war have much more way to pass.. so dont compare them for now..
Before having an opinion should'nt you try it first?
No. You can point if someone is talking without knowgledge, of course, but anyone is entitle to his/her opinion even without experience or knowdledge.
It's part of something called free speech, which you use a lot, imo.
On the subject of this thread, I wish WoW the best. Competition is the best way to improve the quality of products. I hope WoW doesnt die. I hope that MMOs that already exist and others that are coming to be huge successes. I wish WAR the best, not only because I like it and I play it, but because it will even help WoW to be better.
All the people wishing for WoW to keep monopolizing the market... well... I hope it doesnt happens... its the worst that can happen to all of us.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
No offence taken.
No I never did get to see ZA or beyond, and who knows I may never see past Naxx but I would like to believe that I could. I do feel for the hardcore but like I stated the hard core are in the small minority and Blizz wants to appease the majority. So far in Wrath im having a blast, it actually seems like im leveling rather slow but I am having fun, a lot of very unique quests.
I have played wow since release and I never did get to experience a 40 maner but I did get to do Kara alot and I know some might say that Kara was easy mode but for me it was a blast.
Not really sure how Blizz can make the casuals happy and not offend the hardcore?
I have no clue to be honest. Maybe creating one or two 40 man raids with hardcore difficulty for the time invested crowd? casual players will still have heroics and 10 man raids while the Normal players can run the 25 mans and the hardcore pycho EQ1 crowd could have 40 mans back with crazy ass 18 boss dungeon encounters that wouldnt include the Main storyline Bosses so casuals wouldn't feel like they missed out on killing arthus or whatever.
Hell even make this 40 man gear unusable in instanced pvp, we don't want to unfairly dominate casual players we just want the status and the oooh and ahhhs we used to get hanging in a major city before Tbc.
There are bosses still not killed in WAR Every boss has been killed in WOTLK by the good raiding guilds (including the 25man ones, 25man KT, Malygos and Sart). And I can tell you for a fact that Malygos 25 man is easier than any sunwell fight, and is easier even than bosses in Lost Vale in WAR (Lost Vale isn't even the hardest instance in WAR) WAR pve > WoW pve in terms of challenge now
And there are like 10M more players playing WOW, including multiple guilds who are PAID to raid endgame and who had these raids on Farm for 6 months in beta.
You can't compare WOW to Warhammer simply because Warhammer never had an open beta for endgame (and it shows) and doesn't have guilds who are paid to get world first kills.
As far as easier then Sunwell. Yes.. Naxx is the introductory raid, it is supposed to be easy. You are comparing it to Sunwell (last raid in BC) when in fact, you should be comparing it to Kaz (first raid in BC).
None of this matters. WOW had almost 80% of its servers in queue last night. WOW has now added 22 servers in the last two weeks. Warhammer is failing badly.. the biggest request from players is to merge servers.
But please, keep posting these kind of threads just like the people in the AOC forums do and declare 'your' game better than WOW.
Please name 1 game that has had an open beta that allows people to play end game? Oooh Riiiggght you can't...not even WoW makes that list. End GAme is always exclusively tested internally and in closed betas otherwise whats the point of paying for and playing it all over again if you did it for free. WAR's end game works but Scenarios Over shadow Everything. Honestly they should randomly turn off T4 scenarios so there are enough people to actually DO the end game.
to be honest this thread is a waste. I'm a warhammer fan and a wow hater (for personal reasons) but I'm not crazy enough to say that WoW is dead adn its a shitty game...I just dont like WoW and could careless about any of its associated drama. Honestly why do you and people like you OP bother posted these ridiculous threads?!? You only make yourself and the community look bad.
Re; Warhammer sub nunbers. It has been announced few times allready that WAR passed 800 000 sub mark with well over million copies sold ( not shipped - sold ).
I would tend to agree, Warhammer is a far better game imho, and I played wow for 3 years.
Because it is the most difficult MMORPG to obtain the highest PvP gear with required PvP ratings as high as 2200+ personal ratings. Only a few people per server (if any !) will get the full PvP gear set. Is that not hardcore enough??? Because 99% will never have these ratings. So you are not even playing a game where you can have a unique title and a unique Pvp set only available to the very highest elite? isn't that hardcore enough? And I also would like to ask: what's your standing in WotLK now? You're on which raid? Before having an opinion should'nt you try it first?
I actually like the changes to pvp in WoW, the added pvp zone and the fact that truely skilled players in pvp are once again being recognised in wow.
My complain is in the raid game to be honest while pvpers have thier elite status once again why can't raiders? you can't possibly consider the raid game elite in anyway when everyone can run all raid content in 10 mans and get similar gear (or 1 tier lower) than the hardcore raiders.
Because it is the most difficult MMORPG to obtain the highest PvP gear with required PvP ratings as high as 2200+ personal ratings. Only a few people per server (if any !) will get the full PvP gear set. Is that not hardcore enough??? Because 99% will never have these ratings. So you are not even playing a game where you can have a unique title and a unique Pvp set only available to the very highest elite? isn't that hardcore enough? And I also would like to ask: what's your standing in WotLK now? You're on which raid? Before having an opinion should'nt you try it first?
I actually like the changes to pvp in WoW, the added pvp zone and the fact that truely skilled players in pvp are once again being recognised in wow.
My complain is in the raid game to be honest while pvpers have thier elite status once again why can't raiders? you can't possibly consider the raid game elite in anyway when everyone can run all raid content in 10 mans and get similar gear (or 1 tier lower) than the hardcore raiders.
Ok. But I think the best players are still to be found in Pvp play.
Everyone can follow a group and heal with healbot. The difference I see when I am in Raids and we have our premade BG group is staggering.
Paladins can't even pull a shield on time in some Raids.
Let's face it, ALL pve and raid WOTLK content was beaten by the best guild 2 days after release, and most of the top 50-100 guilds have now cleared all of it also. It will take 1 more week for most of the good raiding guilds to complete all of it - including malygos, full naxx 25 etc Then everyone and their granny who has never played a computer game will be able to kill Kelthuzad and Malygos. Sad but true, WoW is just dumb now. WoW has been dumbed down so that anyone with a keyboard can complete it and get their epics. It's boring to know everyone has full epics and there's no variety, no sense of achievement. There's simply no point to WoW any more. It's not fun, and it's too easy. It's pointless.
WAR may not be as polished, but it is more fun. I play with a good top-end guild, we are killing bosses in Lost Vale that are harder than any boss in WOTLK (order doesn't have repel) And the mass PVP with zone control throughout the actual game map (rather than some instances lake BG aka AV2) is more fun than crappy arena duels and the same BGs again and again. I see a lot of people who have now completed WoW/WOTLK looking around saying "is that all there is?" I'm happy playing WAR
i think you are dreaming...
Warhammer is good for 2 month then its a pain to play.
Let's face it, ALL pve and raid WOTLK content was beaten by the best guild 2 days after release, and most of the top 50-100 guilds have now cleared all of it also. It will take 1 more week for most of the good raiding guilds to complete all of it - including malygos, full naxx 25 etc Then everyone and their granny who has never played a computer game will be able to kill Kelthuzad and Malygos. Sad but true, WoW is just dumb now. WoW has been dumbed down so that anyone with a keyboard can complete it and get their epics. It's boring to know everyone has full epics and there's no variety, no sense of achievement. There's simply no point to WoW any more. It's not fun, and it's too easy. It's pointless.
WAR may not be as polished, but it is more fun. I play with a good top-end guild, we are killing bosses in Lost Vale that are harder than any boss in WOTLK (order doesn't have repel) And the mass PVP with zone control throughout the actual game map (rather than some instances lake BG aka AV2) is more fun than crappy arena duels and the same BGs again and again. I see a lot of people who have now completed WoW/WOTLK looking around saying "is that all there is?" I'm happy playing WAR
i think you are dreaming...
Warhammer is good for 2 month then its a pain to play.
WAR is better - the PVE is harder and more rewarding, WAR's endgame PVE > WoW by far
And the PVP is in a much higher league, mass PVP based on skill and tank/dps/healer formations using hold the line - all of it with consequences for the entire game map and with good rewards!
I'm still having more fun in WAR PvP than I ever did in WOW simply because of the large scale fights and keep sieges. I don't think 1 PvP zone is really going to save WoW PvP and people will just keep playing the same old battlegrounds.
Have you even tried WotLK's Lake Wintergrasp or the new Strand ? The first time I entered the fortress of LW I was speechless. These are pure wargames m8. Pure wargames.
The castle and multiple walls of Lake Wintergrasp alone are as big as the complete Warsong Gulch battlefield. Multiple walls. Multiple gates. Unbelievable. That zone is h u g e .
And these walls and gates fall. The infantry is running behind the tanks. The artillery shreds you to pieces. First experience this and then come back with your personal comments please. Because I 've never seen anything like it in an MMORPG. Large scale and keep sieges? I don't think you can even compare it.
It's no RvR !!!, but as PvP, the new zones/BG in WotLK are really unmatched. So unless you're a Wow hater, I would certainly give it a try... these are not the usual capture the flag things... far from.
<Mod edit>,
I don't really want to do it in one zone where it doesn't affect anything but more PvE and gear. I want non-gear centric PvP progression. Has there been hundreds of players clashing yet? I did a fortress raid and loved it, definitely one of the best experiences to date in PvP.
RvR is way better than anything item centric that you can come up with.
What is the main thing the RvR zone gives? Items? More PvE?
WOW will never progress from a PvE centric game to a PvP one simply because everything is centred only around items and personal progression.
These words are going to haunt you as Warhammer slowly shows just how itemcentric it really is. If the itemization in the game wasn't so horribly designed it would be much bigger than it appears now.
Nothing Mythic has done will change the basic formula to MMOs. By that I mean Mythic isn't giving any incentive to do anything other than gear rewards and because this is a PvP centric game it will have an effect bigger than a PvE game.
Why does everyone pretend this game is just another gear chaser?
Yet another WoW topic in the WAR forum. Why is WoW so popular? Can 11 million subscribers be wrong? http://worldofwarcraft.com Ten day free trial.
Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? How many burgers have they sold by now? And yet I wouldnt call it the best that industry has to offer.
WAR is like Burger King. Better than Mikey Ds IMO. But hasnt sold no where near the amount as McDonalds.
Hoping someone will make a resturant (RPG) soon instead of more fast food(Theme parks).
You realize the Burger King sells some of the worst nutritional food in the fast food industry right? They can do that and basically anything they want to do, because everyone is so focused on criticizing McDonalds for its quality that they just don't pay attention to what anyone else is doing.
Not the talking about hamburgers is fair comparison to MMOs in any meaningful way.
Wrath of the Lich King sold 2.8M copies in the first 24hrs it was released. That is only for NA and EU (and a few other countries). They haven't released it in Korea or China yet.
In 24hrs.. WOW sold more than Warhammer and AOC did combined since they have been released.
I thought WAR was good, well put together but at the end of the day you grind grind grind your way to 40 then you can play the game, well I never got to 40 so I wouldn't know, but I did grind grind grind and grind some more just to get to where I got to. I was in the end bored of mmorpgs because of it, I couldn't stand to kill another mob again! I was sitting there waiting for scenarios to start because at least you got exp for doing something different.
I've started playing WoW again, dusted it off and started a new character and I'm amazed I'm actually having fun with it, it doesn't feel like much of a grind at the moment I'm only at lvl 14 lol, but I can't see myself putting it down, I never got very far in WoW mainly because I was going out every night getting drunk, now I don't have that money so instead desided to play WoW, hopefully I can get the missus into it and then her bro and we can go aaround in a group and have fun.
But I must say WoW's pve content easily beats WARs, I never really found it hard as a DK in WAR, and all I got from other people, well your a tank, well tanks shouldn't hit hard but for some reason in WAR they do, and they hit hard, so pve ended up being boring for me, soloing pq's stages 1 and sometimes 2 was teadious.
Oh yer and lich king is the fastest selling PC game of all time! eek I'd say that WoW isn't dead somewhat.
(Edit: about WoW) Everyone who say that it was better when you could see, who was the hardcore raider, on the gear they had on.... Just lol... What is that shit about, Who got the biggest e-peen????? seriously, HC raiders need to stop whining, go back to their cave. They are just ego trippers, they want to be full epiced while everyone else is in full blues, so they can run around and say "STFU N00B I PWNZOR U!!!" .... ohh thats great mate, but you also shit your pants cause raid leader wont let u BIO in the middle of your run. smelly monkeys.
Thats all its ever about in gear based games.
And yes if you can't complete the raids my guild completes you deserve blues (or lesser gear). You shouldn't be able to use a welfare work around (heroics/ten mans) and have the same Item level gear as a hardcore player.
Why not just take all gear from the game? its worthless anyways right? since everyone can get the same shit.
All wow is is one big gear fashion show, always has been and always will be.
It doesn't really matter, Blizzard NGE'd my old WoW (Pre-tbc) its not worth playing anymore.
Comments
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
No problem m8. I ve been there the last 3 nights and you'll stand in awe.
Don't forget Strand either. Both are great additions. Those who don't believe they added good PvP, no problem. Stay with War. I know where the action is.
Even if WotLK truly has very little content it doesn't bother me. Considering I have a life and other things to do with my time, I only have very limited time to play. So all this means to me is that I just might be able to see the end game and get some nice epics before another expac comes out, (or before i die. whichever comes first). And the big thing you need to think about is, even though it is short is it still fun to play through? Blizzard went ahead and made 2 different start zones this time around, so once you finish one story/quest line with one character, you can do the other with another character. I played WAR for a while but I'm not going to state the problems I found with the game here specifically. But in a general sense I just felt disconnected with my character and nothing seemed fluid/smooth enough to get me into the action.
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
No offence taken.
No I never did get to see ZA or beyond, and who knows I may never see past Naxx but I would like to believe that I could. I do feel for the hardcore but like I stated the hard core are in the small minority and Blizz wants to appease the majority. So far in Wrath im having a blast, it actually seems like im leveling rather slow but I am having fun, a lot of very unique quests.
I have played wow since release and I never did get to experience a 40 maner but I did get to do Kara alot and I know some might say that Kara was easy mode but for me it was a blast.
Not really sure how Blizz can make the casuals happy and not offend the hardcore?
But yet there numbers continue to rise, Blizz knows what there doing and they know who pays the bills. Why do you guys always have to bring up Sub numbers whenever someone feels that WoW was better back in the day? For me those subs didn't mean anything, I never played with 10 million players on a server and that money blizzard makes certainly isn't going into WoW.
The fact that people feel like thier in game accomplishments are for nothing and considering WoW is a skill based game thats crazy.
They had to make the carrot a little easier to get, Im not saying I totally agree but as someone who only can play about 8 hours a week its nice to know that maybe some day I will be able to fight the final boss.
Why should you get to see the very last boss with only eight hours a week investent into a MMO? Because you pay 14.95 like the rest of us? Let me ask you did you get to kill the last boss in ZA with that play schedule? or KT in the Eye? if not what makes you think you can in WotLK?
As for PVP though, that is a headache, I hope that Lake Wintergrasp is fun.
Ehh... im just happy that blizzard got off thier asses and is actually giving world pvp some love.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
So why aren't you playing Wow then?
Because it is the most difficult MMORPG to obtain the highest PvP gear with required PvP ratings as high as 2200+ personal ratings. Only a few people per server (if any !) will get the full PvP gear set.
Is that not hardcore enough??? Because 99% will never have these ratings. So you are not even playing a game where you can have a unique title and a unique Pvp set only available to the very highest elite?
isn't that hardcore enough? And I also would like to ask: what's your standing in WotLK now? You're on which raid? Before having an opinion should'nt you try it first?
its useless to compare wow and war for now.. cuz wow is a conformed game.. war is just at the begining.. remeber the wow's 1st times it was annoying.. war have much more way to pass.. so dont compare them for now..
No. You can point if someone is talking without knowgledge, of course, but anyone is entitle to his/her opinion even without experience or knowdledge.
It's part of something called free speech, which you use a lot, imo.
On the subject of this thread, I wish WoW the best. Competition is the best way to improve the quality of products. I hope WoW doesnt die. I hope that MMOs that already exist and others that are coming to be huge successes. I wish WAR the best, not only because I like it and I play it, but because it will even help WoW to be better.
All the people wishing for WoW to keep monopolizing the market... well... I hope it doesnt happens... its the worst that can happen to all of us.
Edit: I'm not trying to knock your play schedule I have children adn a full time job of my own, so I know how tough it could be to log into WoW on a normal basis. But should the entire hardcore WoW community suffer to make every boss accessible to the casual gamer? Blizzard has taken everything that made WoW fun for us and made it not worth shit. They may have 11 million subs but imo if they actually left in some hardcore content they would have close to 16 million atm.
No offence taken.
No I never did get to see ZA or beyond, and who knows I may never see past Naxx but I would like to believe that I could. I do feel for the hardcore but like I stated the hard core are in the small minority and Blizz wants to appease the majority. So far in Wrath im having a blast, it actually seems like im leveling rather slow but I am having fun, a lot of very unique quests.
I have played wow since release and I never did get to experience a 40 maner but I did get to do Kara alot and I know some might say that Kara was easy mode but for me it was a blast.
Not really sure how Blizz can make the casuals happy and not offend the hardcore?
I have no clue to be honest. Maybe creating one or two 40 man raids with hardcore difficulty for the time invested crowd? casual players will still have heroics and 10 man raids while the Normal players can run the 25 mans and the hardcore pycho EQ1 crowd could have 40 mans back with crazy ass 18 boss dungeon encounters that wouldnt include the Main storyline Bosses so casuals wouldn't feel like they missed out on killing arthus or whatever.
Hell even make this 40 man gear unusable in instanced pvp, we don't want to unfairly dominate casual players we just want the status and the oooh and ahhhs we used to get hanging in a major city before Tbc.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
And there are like 10M more players playing WOW, including multiple guilds who are PAID to raid endgame and who had these raids on Farm for 6 months in beta.
You can't compare WOW to Warhammer simply because Warhammer never had an open beta for endgame (and it shows) and doesn't have guilds who are paid to get world first kills.
As far as easier then Sunwell. Yes.. Naxx is the introductory raid, it is supposed to be easy. You are comparing it to Sunwell (last raid in BC) when in fact, you should be comparing it to Kaz (first raid in BC).
None of this matters. WOW had almost 80% of its servers in queue last night. WOW has now added 22 servers in the last two weeks. Warhammer is failing badly.. the biggest request from players is to merge servers.
But please, keep posting these kind of threads just like the people in the AOC forums do and declare 'your' game better than WOW.
Please name 1 game that has had an open beta that allows people to play end game? Oooh Riiiggght you can't...not even WoW makes that list. End GAme is always exclusively tested internally and in closed betas otherwise whats the point of paying for and playing it all over again if you did it for free. WAR's end game works but Scenarios Over shadow Everything. Honestly they should randomly turn off T4 scenarios so there are enough people to actually DO the end game.
to be honest this thread is a waste. I'm a warhammer fan and a wow hater (for personal reasons) but I'm not crazy enough to say that WoW is dead adn its a shitty game...I just dont like WoW and could careless about any of its associated drama. Honestly why do you and people like you OP bother posted these ridiculous threads?!? You only make yourself and the community look bad.
Re; Warhammer sub nunbers. It has been announced few times allready that WAR passed 800 000 sub mark with well over million copies sold ( not shipped - sold ).
I would tend to agree, Warhammer is a far better game imho, and I played wow for 3 years.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
I actually like the changes to pvp in WoW, the added pvp zone and the fact that truely skilled players in pvp are once again being recognised in wow.
My complain is in the raid game to be honest while pvpers have thier elite status once again why can't raiders? you can't possibly consider the raid game elite in anyway when everyone can run all raid content in 10 mans and get similar gear (or 1 tier lower) than the hardcore raiders.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I actually like the changes to pvp in WoW, the added pvp zone and the fact that truely skilled players in pvp are once again being recognised in wow.
My complain is in the raid game to be honest while pvpers have thier elite status once again why can't raiders? you can't possibly consider the raid game elite in anyway when everyone can run all raid content in 10 mans and get similar gear (or 1 tier lower) than the hardcore raiders.
Ok. But I think the best players are still to be found in Pvp play.
Everyone can follow a group and heal with healbot. The difference I see when I am in Raids and we have our premade BG group is staggering.
Paladins can't even pull a shield on time in some Raids.
So I agree.
Yet another WoW topic in the WAR forum.
Why is WoW so popular? Can 11 million subscribers be wrong?
http://worldofwarcraft.com
Ten day free trial.
You are a joke. Check your sig - lol @ you.
Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? How many burgers have they sold by now? And yet I wouldnt call it the best that industry has to offer.
WAR is like Burger King. Better than Mikey Ds IMO. But hasnt sold no where near the amount as McDonalds.
Hoping someone will make a resturant (RPG) soon instead of more fast food(Theme parks).
i think you are dreaming...
Warhammer is good for 2 month then its a pain to play.
i think you are dreaming...
Warhammer is good for 2 month then its a pain to play.
WAR is better - the PVE is harder and more rewarding, WAR's endgame PVE > WoW by far
And the PVP is in a much higher league, mass PVP based on skill and tank/dps/healer formations using hold the line - all of it with consequences for the entire game map and with good rewards!
Have you even tried WotLK's Lake Wintergrasp or the new Strand ? The first time I entered the fortress of LW I was speechless. These are pure wargames m8. Pure wargames.
The castle and multiple walls of Lake Wintergrasp alone are as big as the complete Warsong Gulch battlefield. Multiple walls. Multiple gates. Unbelievable. That zone is h u g e .
And these walls and gates fall. The infantry is running behind the tanks. The artillery shreds you to pieces. First experience this and then come back with your personal comments please. Because I 've never seen anything like it in an MMORPG. Large scale and keep sieges? I don't think you can even compare it.
It's no RvR !!!, but as PvP, the new zones/BG in WotLK are really unmatched. So unless you're a Wow hater, I would certainly give it a try... these are not the usual capture the flag things... far from.
<Mod edit>,
I don't really want to do it in one zone where it doesn't affect anything but more PvE and gear. I want non-gear centric PvP progression. Has there been hundreds of players clashing yet? I did a fortress raid and loved it, definitely one of the best experiences to date in PvP.
RvR is way better than anything item centric that you can come up with.
What is the main thing the RvR zone gives? Items? More PvE?
WOW will never progress from a PvE centric game to a PvP one simply because everything is centred only around items and personal progression.
These words are going to haunt you as Warhammer slowly shows just how itemcentric it really is. If the itemization in the game wasn't so horribly designed it would be much bigger than it appears now.
Nothing Mythic has done will change the basic formula to MMOs. By that I mean Mythic isn't giving any incentive to do anything other than gear rewards and because this is a PvP centric game it will have an effect bigger than a PvE game.
Why does everyone pretend this game is just another gear chaser?
Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? How many burgers have they sold by now? And yet I wouldnt call it the best that industry has to offer.
WAR is like Burger King. Better than Mikey Ds IMO. But hasnt sold no where near the amount as McDonalds.
Hoping someone will make a resturant (RPG) soon instead of more fast food(Theme parks).
You realize the Burger King sells some of the worst nutritional food in the fast food industry right? They can do that and basically anything they want to do, because everyone is so focused on criticizing McDonalds for its quality that they just don't pay attention to what anyone else is doing.
Not the talking about hamburgers is fair comparison to MMOs in any meaningful way.
Just to point this out.
Wrath of the Lich King sold 2.8M copies in the first 24hrs it was released. That is only for NA and EU (and a few other countries). They haven't released it in Korea or China yet.
In 24hrs.. WOW sold more than Warhammer and AOC did combined since they have been released.
I thought WAR was good, well put together but at the end of the day you grind grind grind your way to 40 then you can play the game, well I never got to 40 so I wouldn't know, but I did grind grind grind and grind some more just to get to where I got to. I was in the end bored of mmorpgs because of it, I couldn't stand to kill another mob again! I was sitting there waiting for scenarios to start because at least you got exp for doing something different.
I've started playing WoW again, dusted it off and started a new character and I'm amazed I'm actually having fun with it, it doesn't feel like much of a grind at the moment I'm only at lvl 14 lol, but I can't see myself putting it down, I never got very far in WoW mainly because I was going out every night getting drunk, now I don't have that money so instead desided to play WoW, hopefully I can get the missus into it and then her bro and we can go aaround in a group and have fun.
But I must say WoW's pve content easily beats WARs, I never really found it hard as a DK in WAR, and all I got from other people, well your a tank, well tanks shouldn't hit hard but for some reason in WAR they do, and they hit hard, so pve ended up being boring for me, soloing pq's stages 1 and sometimes 2 was teadious.
Oh yer and lich king is the fastest selling PC game of all time! eek I'd say that WoW isn't dead somewhat.
(Edit: about WoW)
Everyone who say that it was better when you could see, who was the hardcore raider, on the gear they had on....
Just lol...
What is that shit about, Who got the biggest e-peen????? seriously, HC raiders need to stop whining, go back to their cave.
They are just ego trippers, they want to be full epiced while everyone else is in full blues, so they can run around and say "STFU N00B I PWNZOR U!!!"
.... ohh thats great mate, but you also shit your pants cause raid leader wont let u BIO in the middle of your run.
smelly monkeys.
The 1.5k queue on my server at peak times begs to differ.
Thats all its ever about in gear based games.
And yes if you can't complete the raids my guild completes you deserve blues (or lesser gear). You shouldn't be able to use a welfare work around (heroics/ten mans) and have the same Item level gear as a hardcore player.
Why not just take all gear from the game? its worthless anyways right? since everyone can get the same shit.
All wow is is one big gear fashion show, always has been and always will be.
It doesn't really matter, Blizzard NGE'd my old WoW (Pre-tbc) its not worth playing anymore.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum