I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
People will be forced to coperate and adapt or run for WoW. I'm glad the latter is an option.
People who WANT to play the dam game will play teh dam game if oyu dont want to be dry looted by me 100 times then dont play.
I think people are afraid of full loot because they believe a lot of things, when none of these things is necessary true. - "Everytime I'll be killed I'll be dry looted" -> will probably be an exception not the rule, looting someone won't be clicking one instant and taking all, it will take time, looting item after item, with huge risks for the looter immobile near the corpse ; to carry too much loot will slow characters too and destroying items isn't instant either, so most PK will just take money + one or two items and run, letting the remaining loot on the corpse ; of course vulture kind of players may also loot abandoned corpses, but if they are from same race they will have an alignment hit if they loot and I doubt everyone want to become red, so, except if you are near a faction fronteer it will be unlikely to be dry looted (except if you are killed by a griefer, a big pk clan group or someone having a particular grudge against you, but it won't happen everytime) I don't agree. They will make sure they can carry a good amount and will essentially be watchful if this is a one on one thing. If they are in a group they probably don't have anything to worry about. But they will take the best items and the money, that much is true. - "Everyone will gank for fun" -> probably false, everyone will rather be afraid of loosing more stuff than he gain or to be griefed, ganking random peoples mean having more ennemies, eventually entire clans, and once you have ennemies you will often be dry looted or even spawn camped by them, so most people will only gank when they have good reasons (of course if you carry valuable stuff or campe a gold/ressource you will be ganked ; it's up to you to be clever enough to bank things you don't want to lose), like everything ganking is question of risk/reward, even if immediate risk is low, long term risk will be considered once people realise other players have memories Not falst at all! There are pvp parties that are made all the time just to catch the enemy. - "It will be impossible to avoid PKs" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big ; 2/ a lot of people will want to get rid of the PK groups camping between farming spots and bank, so areas near town will be cleaned by antis, 3/ a lot of the UO PK type players will rather engage in clan or faction warfare, dfo is not a game with only PK and antis Again, there are pvp parties made and scouts sent out just to find enemy tags. The majority of the time clans will be doing this so they can be prepared to get the the enemy. - "Even cities won't be secure" -> true and false, there may be suicide ganking like in eve to kill semi-afk rich crafters/traders in cities, but it will only happen if someone is known to carry a lot of valuable ; once a character become red he will be attacked as soon he enters a city, and as there are no rerolls it's unlikely to see players re-start their characters just for the pleasure of doing suicide ganking in cities There are players who will plan out Red days where they will carry very little but try to sneak in "in group" to cause havoc. Heck, in Lineage 2 there were higher level red players who would take lower level Villaages hostage for quite some time. - "Numbers will rule, it will be impossible to solo or play in little groups" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big, 2/ without a flag above your head it's hard to see you if you travel alone and out of clear terrains, 3/ the friendly fire system is an hudge disadvantage for the bigger group, good pvpers will make their opponents hit each other more often than they hit them when they are outnumbered That's not my experience at all. You will find full groups scouting for smaller groups, soloers. - "Big clans will ignore their faction, once they have farmed alignment they will kill everyone unguilded or from smaller clans near their cities" -> an exception not the rule probably, the interest of the clans cities will be to become safe trade centers so ressources and money are nether lacking, and to have a good image to avoid the gathering of an alliance against them ; ruthless big clans will probably exist but their cities won't last long against alliances of smaller clans of their faction + ennemies of other factions This much might be true as I've seen the same thing happen. If you piss off a server they will rise up to take you out. - "(any affirmation about gear)" -> probably false, most people have only known gear centric games, with lot of stuff farming, big differences between items, etc... Dfo won't be one. Etc... I'm not saying Dfo will be a walk in a park, but I think the reality of this game (after 1 month or 2, in the beginning of course it will be chaotic) will be far from the gank and dry loot fest many imagine.
Most of what you stated is not my experience in a pvp oriented game.
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lol i love how noobs are going to buy the game then quit, makes me lol that they cant simply read the features page and make a descision that oh shit this isnt the game for me. enjoy wasting your money u stupid noobs, but i guess thats why your a noob in the first place, learn the game you play before you buy it, idiots.
i also lol when i read so many people on these forums bitching about the game. LOL!!! you too either a.) cannot read or b.) read it and are going to play anyways even though your going to get roflstomped daily
guess what people, pvp has two sides, winning and losing. get used to it. if you cant handle your loss's with your wins, maple story and wow is ------------>
lol and this is why i said the community has changed. I love when people jump into a thread and just through around the noob word. Noob this and Noob that. You do bring up a good point, people do need to read what they are getting into but they dont know until they try it too. Maybe they will like it but if they didnt buy it and try it they would have never known. You have to look at the community, a large percentage of the MMO community thinks that Blizzard started the industry. Some of them never even played the beginning content in WOW. lol got to love the noob word
@Nikoliath : Depends what you call pvp centric (were t4c and runescape classic pvp centric or games with pvp among other things ? was EQ on zek servers pvp centric or PvE centric + a lot of griefing ? are rvr games pve centric or pvp ?).
I have some (I may even say a terribly big) experience of corpse camping / being cced but mostly from PvE centric games where it was the mechanic allowing to kill the real targets, the mobs dropping loot, without being ganked / wiped by other guilds, and in other occasions just a way to grief people. In a game where you loot players the incentive to camp someone is reduced as he will either a) come back naked with nothing more to take, b) come back with a sufficient number of friends, c) not come at all, and in a game where you have only one character, and without any secure area, I bet intelligent people will avoid to grief others for nothing.
I'm not saying some idiots won't do spawn camping when they can, but I don't think it will be easy for them. Spawn camping will probably be hard on blue and clan stones (city guards, antis, clans pissed because one of their members can't join them etc...).... on the other hand chaos stone won't have guards... so I guess if the main victims of camping will be the PKs themselves.
Anyway, I don't think the experience of any other game may help to determine how will be darkfall, considering the following features...
- the world is big and open, no small zones with entrances to camp (out of dungeons but they should be dangerous places) no loading to exploit as well (an immunity on respawn)
- there are both ffa pvp and clan pvp and faction pvp ; many clans focusing on clan or faction warfare will also be ennemies of rpk, as rpk annoy their ressources gathering. I expect the faction pressure to be far bigger than what the arac/pk clans think ,and that far more people than you think will find an interest to secure areas for their whole faction, instead of doing random griefing.
- economy will be half local (no worldwide AH), so clans will want traders and buyers to come to their cities, instead of KoSing them ;
- blue PK guilds exploiting the alignment system won't be immune to other clans declaring wars on them
- you have only one character per account, no way to have one PK + give the loot to your blue crafter who make gear for your blue main (edit : oops, someone will probably buy 3 accounts just to do that, but let's say it will be rare)
- there is friendly fire, zerg+aoe won't be the winning "strategy"
- the absence of any fully secure zone may be seen as threatening but also allow players to police the world more than in games with no-pvp places
etc...
Now like for any other games, the population* and the flaws in game systems** will make or break darkfall. I'm not saying "I'm sure it will be like that" but "IMO it will more probably be like that"
*It's true that, if you read what people say on forumfall, the number of rpk , opportunistic/occasionnal pk, clan fanatics @ I-kill-anyone-of-other-clans, or griefer types of player look like they are in rather big numbers. But a) these people have big mouths, b) forumfall is about 1000 regular posters for 200,000 readers and most are just trolling, look at the polls on eu-darkfall site to have a more accurate view of the community, c) most people speaking have not already realised how will be the economy and politics in this game, d) they have experience of games with several characters by account and think reputation won't matter. My opinion is acts will have consequences in this game.
**It's also true that the alignment system looks very exploitable and may allow as much griefing as its protect from it. Probably aventurine will have some little changes in this area before finding a good system. I'm not saying every feature is perfect.
If, say, an average player had $100,000 in his bank/home and upon death you lose about an average of $2,000 worth of items. Would this be acceptable? Or are you still afraid of losing this? If so, why?
HAHA simple answer no?Because the effort you put into EARNING it,can be thrown out the window in mere seconds !
Basically it is like gambling in real life,i am sure there are clue less people who find reason for it,but the majority understand it is just dumb.Add to the fact that for the MAJORITY of a game they will not have the play time as the few higher % who would have unfair advantages.So back to the gambling scenario,it is like saying lets gamble my inferior football team against your superior football team and i am going to give you a 20 point lead.Ok after your team kicks my teams ass,was it fun?nope was there any risk reward for the winning team?almost ZERO !any risk reward for the losing team?not really because they knew they were going to lose,might as well save the effort and just hand over the money before we start.
this is a VERY realistic scenario as compared to what PVP action is like,it is a REAL waste of time,unless you want to pit EVEN players up in a game of UT where it becomes a battle of the minds and not some game mechanics that favour one guy over another.I guess it is like trying to ask THOUSANDS of players why they cheat in games?The logical person knows there is no sense of accomplishment playing that way,but for many they want the satisfaction even though there should be ZERO satisfaction since you do not earn it.
You know and I know EVERY single person in PVP will be looking for an edge that gives them an unfair advantage over the other guy,this is not an accomplishment but merely an ego booster ,so allowing that unfair advantage to take another players hard work ,takes ZERO EFFORT and should NOT be rewarded in this fashion.It takes too much effort by a developer to design PVP properly,we will NOT see it here and will not see it for many years in a MMORPG environment.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
some of you arent going to be happy until every game on the market is exactly like wow.
Theres plenty of games out there for people who dont want sandbox.....go play them and leave DF to be a harsh pvp game.
The fact that player 1 can loot player 2 also means that player 2 can loot player 1 -you guys are bitching and whining about a game not even out yet...the point is we have no reason to beleive there is some intrinsically unfair aspect to this.
Pppl will gank you forever (dont be naive) == you will get dry looted when you die and your shit will be g o n e ......get this clear and dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.
so allowing that unfair advantage to take another players hard work ,takes ZERO EFFORT and should NOT be rewarded in this fashion.It takes too much effort by a developer to design PVP properly,we will NOT see it here and will not see it for many years in a MMORPG environment.
get real please. You make it sound like someone is going to tie your hand while someone else ganks al lyour stuff...well this might happen but the point is you need to learn how to adapt to the situation or dont play at all.
its too bad they wont have items on the ground in this game.....one of the funniest things ever was to sit at a bank in UO and watch some dude drop a couple wooden boxes on the ground --- invariably some newb would come by and set off the trap and release the deadly poison contents. hehehe
Dry looted ...or not (like I say above I think people haven't realised how looting will be) it's just a death penalty = a timesink to re-farm some stuff. It's not really different than losing xp = a timesink to re-farm it, or any other death penalty system... except you may also win.
Between being corpse camped in a game with CRs or looted in a game with full loot, I prefer by far the loot thing, because I can gain something looting you, when I lose my own time if I corpse camp you because you corpse camped me.
The interest of loot systems is : if I kill you I'm not just making you lose time, I gain time myself (money = time), it's the best system.
The thing to realise is there can't be a good mmo without a serious death penalty, there is no feeling of achievement with nothing to lose. And in games without a serious penalty the timesinks are just in other areas (why all this influence/faction/rep grinding in wow and war ? because they have distributed their timesinks to everyone instead of giving big timesinks to the players who lose).
Personnally I find nothing as boring as games without a severe one (I would happily have an huge debuff and an xp loss on death in addition to full loot, just for more adrenaline, but I guess I'm a little masochistic too).
What I find hilarious is that people honestly don't understand that unrestricted PvP and full corpse looting used to be the standard, but has fallen by the wayside because IT DIDN'T WORK! It's impossible to balance properly, too easily exploitable, and ultimately COUNTER-IMMERSIVE and NOT FUN, because within the context of a video game it is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately simulate REAL risk and consequence. Would all you leet PvPers play a game where if you PKed someone and got busted your character was confined to a jail cell forever? No I thought not.
In UO, EvE, Shadowbane, etc. You could simply decide, "Hey, I feel like fucking with people today" and go arounf PKing and stealing people's crap, and oh you might "go red" for a bit, but whatever, before too long you could go back to playing nice like nothing ever happend. You people are full of crap.
I think if full loot "don't work" and the game lose too many people the system will be changed anyway so why bother ?
If you don't like the idea of full loot and don't believe in players policing themselves just wait for this change (personnally I think, if the community is too bad and fail to keep griefing in control, the game will probably evolve like Eve at some point, keeping full loot but with large npc-protected areas).
Full loot and no 100% secure zones are 2 defining features of darkfall. To have or not large 90% secure regions is another question, and I think developpers will follow the eve example if needed.
The great thing is that time will tell whether this works or not.....If this is truly what the players want and if Aventurine is satisfied with a niche game then let it be......
Originally posted by nikoliath I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
Originally posted by nikoliath I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I have to agree. This is all human nature.
good thign there are plenty of games out there that protect you from such game play.
no one here have UO OSI exp ? 6 years of hunting PKs on my side.
where is any challange in collectors games?? even monkey can play it .... i have no fear in this games.. no adrenaline. no goal to reach... becouse all is about luck and time in this games... this games are like game-machines in bars... insert money and hope .... no thats not what i want.
UO veterans , mature community will rise once again. we dont want wow kids here - FUNKS.
As long as it hurts every "class" the same to lose loot fine. In AC it hurt some a lot more than others and then they started putting no drop loot in game and made it even worse for the ones that like to play a certain style.
lol i love how noobs are going to buy the game then quit, makes me lol that they cant simply read the features page and make a descision that oh shit this isnt the game for me. enjoy wasting your money u stupid noobs, but i guess thats why your a noob in the first place, learn the game you play before you buy it, idiots.
i also lol when i read so many people on these forums bitching about the game. LOL!!! you too either a.) cannot read or b.) read it and are going to play anyways even though your going to get roflstomped daily
guess what people, pvp has two sides, winning and losing. get used to it. if you cant handle your loss's with your wins, maple story and wow is ------------>
Sir,
If you have taken any collage level course, request a refund.
If you are in any public school, please prepare to learn your way around cleaning supplies.
If you are un employed and living with a relative, you did not use the word noob enough.
Originally posted by nikoliath I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I have to agree. This is all human nature.
good thign there are plenty of games out there that protect you from such game play.
I have to say, well done. 1 point for you for a well done reply.
lol i love how noobs are going to buy the game then quit, makes me lol that they cant simply read the features page and make a descision that oh shit this isnt the game for me. enjoy wasting your money u stupid noobs, but i guess thats why your a noob in the first place, learn the game you play before you buy it, idiots.
i also lol when i read so many people on these forums bitching about the game. LOL!!! you too either a.) cannot read or b.) read it and are going to play anyways even though your going to get roflstomped daily
guess what people, pvp has two sides, winning and losing. get used to it. if you cant handle your loss's with your wins, maple story and wow is ------------>
Sir,
If you have taken any collage level course, request a refund.
If you are in any public school, please prepare to learn your way around cleaning supplies.
If you are un employed and living with a relative, you did not use the word noob enough.
Comments
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
People will be forced to coperate and adapt or run for WoW. I'm glad the latter is an option.
People who WANT to play the dam game will play teh dam game if oyu dont want to be dry looted by me 100 times then dont play.
Most of what you stated is not my experience in a pvp oriented game.
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They do all that in Eve
lol i love how noobs are going to buy the game then quit, makes me lol that they cant simply read the features page and make a descision that oh shit this isnt the game for me. enjoy wasting your money u stupid noobs, but i guess thats why your a noob in the first place, learn the game you play before you buy it, idiots.
i also lol when i read so many people on these forums bitching about the game. LOL!!! you too either a.) cannot read or b.) read it and are going to play anyways even though your going to get roflstomped daily
guess what people, pvp has two sides, winning and losing. get used to it. if you cant handle your loss's with your wins, maple story and wow is ------------>
lol and this is why i said the community has changed. I love when people jump into a thread and just through around the noob word. Noob this and Noob that. You do bring up a good point, people do need to read what they are getting into but they dont know until they try it too. Maybe they will like it but if they didnt buy it and try it they would have never known. You have to look at the community, a large percentage of the MMO community thinks that Blizzard started the industry. Some of them never even played the beginning content in WOW. lol got to love the noob word
only thing I'm afriad of is aventurine looting my wallet.
@Nikoliath : Depends what you call pvp centric (were t4c and runescape classic pvp centric or games with pvp among other things ? was EQ on zek servers pvp centric or PvE centric + a lot of griefing ? are rvr games pve centric or pvp ?).
I have some (I may even say a terribly big) experience of corpse camping / being cced but mostly from PvE centric games where it was the mechanic allowing to kill the real targets, the mobs dropping loot, without being ganked / wiped by other guilds, and in other occasions just a way to grief people. In a game where you loot players the incentive to camp someone is reduced as he will either a) come back naked with nothing more to take, b) come back with a sufficient number of friends, c) not come at all, and in a game where you have only one character, and without any secure area, I bet intelligent people will avoid to grief others for nothing.
I'm not saying some idiots won't do spawn camping when they can, but I don't think it will be easy for them. Spawn camping will probably be hard on blue and clan stones (city guards, antis, clans pissed because one of their members can't join them etc...).... on the other hand chaos stone won't have guards... so I guess if the main victims of camping will be the PKs themselves.
Anyway, I don't think the experience of any other game may help to determine how will be darkfall, considering the following features...
- the world is big and open, no small zones with entrances to camp (out of dungeons but they should be dangerous places) no loading to exploit as well (an immunity on respawn)
- there are both ffa pvp and clan pvp and faction pvp ; many clans focusing on clan or faction warfare will also be ennemies of rpk, as rpk annoy their ressources gathering. I expect the faction pressure to be far bigger than what the arac/pk clans think ,and that far more people than you think will find an interest to secure areas for their whole faction, instead of doing random griefing.
- economy will be half local (no worldwide AH), so clans will want traders and buyers to come to their cities, instead of KoSing them ;
- blue PK guilds exploiting the alignment system won't be immune to other clans declaring wars on them
- you have only one character per account, no way to have one PK + give the loot to your blue crafter who make gear for your blue main (edit : oops, someone will probably buy 3 accounts just to do that, but let's say it will be rare)
- there is friendly fire, zerg+aoe won't be the winning "strategy"
- the absence of any fully secure zone may be seen as threatening but also allow players to police the world more than in games with no-pvp places
etc...
Now like for any other games, the population* and the flaws in game systems** will make or break darkfall. I'm not saying "I'm sure it will be like that" but "IMO it will more probably be like that"
*It's true that, if you read what people say on forumfall, the number of rpk , opportunistic/occasionnal pk, clan fanatics @ I-kill-anyone-of-other-clans, or griefer types of player look like they are in rather big numbers. But a) these people have big mouths, b) forumfall is about 1000 regular posters for 200,000 readers and most are just trolling, look at the polls on eu-darkfall site to have a more accurate view of the community, c) most people speaking have not already realised how will be the economy and politics in this game, d) they have experience of games with several characters by account and think reputation won't matter. My opinion is acts will have consequences in this game.
**It's also true that the alignment system looks very exploitable and may allow as much griefing as its protect from it. Probably aventurine will have some little changes in this area before finding a good system. I'm not saying every feature is perfect.
HAHA simple answer no?Because the effort you put into EARNING it,can be thrown out the window in mere seconds !
Basically it is like gambling in real life,i am sure there are clue less people who find reason for it,but the majority understand it is just dumb.Add to the fact that for the MAJORITY of a game they will not have the play time as the few higher % who would have unfair advantages.So back to the gambling scenario,it is like saying lets gamble my inferior football team against your superior football team and i am going to give you a 20 point lead.Ok after your team kicks my teams ass,was it fun?nope was there any risk reward for the winning team?almost ZERO !any risk reward for the losing team?not really because they knew they were going to lose,might as well save the effort and just hand over the money before we start.
this is a VERY realistic scenario as compared to what PVP action is like,it is a REAL waste of time,unless you want to pit EVEN players up in a game of UT where it becomes a battle of the minds and not some game mechanics that favour one guy over another.I guess it is like trying to ask THOUSANDS of players why they cheat in games?The logical person knows there is no sense of accomplishment playing that way,but for many they want the satisfaction even though there should be ZERO satisfaction since you do not earn it.
You know and I know EVERY single person in PVP will be looking for an edge that gives them an unfair advantage over the other guy,this is not an accomplishment but merely an ego booster ,so allowing that unfair advantage to take another players hard work ,takes ZERO EFFORT and should NOT be rewarded in this fashion.It takes too much effort by a developer to design PVP properly,we will NOT see it here and will not see it for many years in a MMORPG environment.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
some of you arent going to be happy until every game on the market is exactly like wow.
Theres plenty of games out there for people who dont want sandbox.....go play them and leave DF to be a harsh pvp game.
The fact that player 1 can loot player 2 also means that player 2 can loot player 1 -you guys are bitching and whining about a game not even out yet...the point is we have no reason to beleive there is some intrinsically unfair aspect to this.
Pppl will gank you forever (dont be naive) == you will get dry looted when you die and your shit will be g o n e ......get this clear and dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.
get real please. You make it sound like someone is going to tie your hand while someone else ganks al lyour stuff...well this might happen but the point is you need to learn how to adapt to the situation or dont play at all.
For those who are worried about looting: I'm waiting to see if DF encourages scamming other players within game mechanics as well.
its too bad they wont have items on the ground in this game.....one of the funniest things ever was to sit at a bank in UO and watch some dude drop a couple wooden boxes on the ground --- invariably some newb would come by and set off the trap and release the deadly poison contents. hehehe
Dry looted ...or not (like I say above I think people haven't realised how looting will be) it's just a death penalty = a timesink to re-farm some stuff. It's not really different than losing xp = a timesink to re-farm it, or any other death penalty system... except you may also win.
Between being corpse camped in a game with CRs or looted in a game with full loot, I prefer by far the loot thing, because I can gain something looting you, when I lose my own time if I corpse camp you because you corpse camped me.
The interest of loot systems is : if I kill you I'm not just making you lose time, I gain time myself (money = time), it's the best system.
The thing to realise is there can't be a good mmo without a serious death penalty, there is no feeling of achievement with nothing to lose. And in games without a serious penalty the timesinks are just in other areas (why all this influence/faction/rep grinding in wow and war ? because they have distributed their timesinks to everyone instead of giving big timesinks to the players who lose).
Personnally I find nothing as boring as games without a severe one (I would happily have an huge debuff and an xp loss on death in addition to full loot, just for more adrenaline, but I guess I'm a little masochistic too).
What I find hilarious is that people honestly don't understand that unrestricted PvP and full corpse looting used to be the standard, but has fallen by the wayside because IT DIDN'T WORK! It's impossible to balance properly, too easily exploitable, and ultimately COUNTER-IMMERSIVE and NOT FUN, because within the context of a video game it is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately simulate REAL risk and consequence. Would all you leet PvPers play a game where if you PKed someone and got busted your character was confined to a jail cell forever? No I thought not.
In UO, EvE, Shadowbane, etc. You could simply decide, "Hey, I feel like fucking with people today" and go arounf PKing and stealing people's crap, and oh you might "go red" for a bit, but whatever, before too long you could go back to playing nice like nothing ever happend. You people are full of crap.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
I think if full loot "don't work" and the game lose too many people the system will be changed anyway so why bother ?
If you don't like the idea of full loot and don't believe in players policing themselves just wait for this change (personnally I think, if the community is too bad and fail to keep griefing in control, the game will probably evolve like Eve at some point, keeping full loot but with large npc-protected areas).
Full loot and no 100% secure zones are 2 defining features of darkfall. To have or not large 90% secure regions is another question, and I think developpers will follow the eve example if needed.
Me not afeared.
How about this though?
Tell me exactly how PvP equates full loot? Heck, any loot at all?
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
The great thing is that time will tell whether this works or not.....If this is truly what the players want and if Aventurine is satisfied with a niche game then let it be......
i can repeat: full loot and destructable items are gas for game economy. and this system is funny as hell.
I have to agree. This is all human nature.
I have to agree. This is all human nature.
good thign there are plenty of games out there that protect you from such game play.
no one here have UO OSI exp ? 6 years of hunting PKs on my side.
where is any challange in collectors games?? even monkey can play it .... i have no fear in this games.. no adrenaline. no goal to reach... becouse all is about luck and time in this games... this games are like game-machines in bars... insert money and hope .... no thats not what i want.
UO veterans , mature community will rise once again. we dont want wow kids here - FUNKS.
As long as it hurts every "class" the same to lose loot fine. In AC it hurt some a lot more than others and then they started putting no drop loot in game and made it even worse for the ones that like to play a certain style.
Sir,
If you have taken any collage level course, request a refund.
If you are in any public school, please prepare to learn your way around cleaning supplies.
If you are un employed and living with a relative, you did not use the word noob enough.
That will be all.
I have to agree. This is all human nature.
good thign there are plenty of games out there that protect you from such game play.
I have to say, well done. 1 point for you for a well done reply.
PS I'm serious, well done.
Sir,
If you have taken any collage level course, request a refund.
If you are in any public school, please prepare to learn your way around cleaning supplies.
If you are un employed and living with a relative, you did not use the word noob enough.
That will be all.
pretty low below the belt man....pretty low.