Originally posted by bagnol The way I see it, it can be summed up like this.
Nobody knew any better.
Before WoW, were there really 11 million people playing MMOs? Nope.Before WoW, did 11 million people even know what an MMO was like? Nope.Everyone started playing WoW because it was the best funded, most user-friendly and the most accessible. When people say WoW killed the MMO industry they mean that when most people get tired of WoW, they get tired of what today's MMOs are.Most people only started WoW because friends or people they knew told them to try it. It's the whole "Tell two people, then they tell two people, then they tell two people..." logic.MMOs are famous for being addictive and because WoW was most people's first, they only ever knew about WoW and they didn't want to look elsewhere because they were addicted. Of the 11 million or so subscribers I doubt many of them saw the tv ads and said "Despite the average graphics desplayed here, I really want to try this game becaus Ozzy is in it!" It's got nothing to do with McDonalds or empty bottles or because it was a perfect game (or a bad game), it's purely about the fact that it was the first they tried and, although not anything special in today's industry, it was something they had never seen before and the immersion factor sucked them right in.Correct me if I'm wrong but for the sake of sanity, do so respectfully. (I know it's kinda disorganised.)
I respectfully ask you to provide the solid evidence to back up this other tired and unproven argument??
Personally, my experience before WOW only included Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, DaoC, EVE in the main as well as a few trials and Free to Play games. Hardly the most experience in the world, but hardly total inexperience and i have/do still enjoy WOW even after playing it from launch.
The Asian markets probably have more experience than anyone else in the MMO field as there are masses of them over there all with varying degrees of polish and play styles, so i would hardly call them the most inexperienced market in the world either.
The point is that unless you actually know every one of the players that subscribe to WOW then you are hardly in a position to make a blanket statement like you have above and even with inexperience, people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have.
As for WOW killing the MMO market, well that just isn't true at all is it. With more and more people gaining access to broadband worldwide the market is opening wider and wider and there are those that don't and won't like WOW so there is plenty of scope for someone with some imagination and vision to come forward and claim that market for themselves.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
"With more than 11.5 million monthly subscribers,World of Warcraft is currently the world's largest MMORPG in those terms, and holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG.In April 2008, World of Warcraft was estimated to hold 62% of the massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) market." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_warcraft Beat that with a stick.
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
"With more than 11.5 million monthly subscribers,World of Warcraft is currently the world's largest MMORPG in those terms, and holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG.In April 2008, World of Warcraft was estimated to hold 62% of the massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) market." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_warcraft Beat that with a stick.
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Now I have seen it all.......someone is comparing WOW to a carcinogen. LOL.....
How many games (even on consoles) you know that keeps SELLING after ... 4.5 years ? Week of March 22 - 29, 2009*
TITLE - PUBLISHER - AVERAGE PRICE
1) World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King - Activision Blizzard - $33
2) Empire: Total War - Sega - $33
3) The Sims 2 Double Deluxe - Electronic Arts - $20
4) World of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Activision Blizzard - $33
5) Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - THQ - $47
6) Spore - Electronic Arts - $47
7) Mystery Case Files: Return to Ravenhearst - Activision Blizzard - $19
8) World of Warcraft - Activision Blizzard - $20
9) The Sims 2 Apartment Life - Electronic Arts - $20
10) Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway - Ubisoft - $13 Do you see Bioshock? Do you see Call of Duty 5? Do you see FAll out 3? The above three games were recently launched. Every other video game lasts about 6 months (at the most). And add this top 10 in on online games being played in our westeren world. www.xfire.com A sample of ... 200.000 on line PC players (and sampled 24/hours on 24 Hours). --- ---> Would YOU play 15 Euros a month just to listen to Brittney Spears ::)))) ---- That's the difference.
Please don't call Blizzard, Activision Blizzard. It's really disrespectful to Blizzard when you are trying to divide their efforts amongst Activision.. a company with less than sub-par video game development. Not to mention their overuse of the same game, same sequels, and yet... you wonder why they had to merge... hmmmmm.
Again... really, for the diginity of probably one of the most founded game companies in history, just call them Blizzard.
Originally posted by bagnol Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
You don't quite get the point of forum posts do you? People are allowed to have opposing views on the same subject, pretty much the same as the rest of the world works to be fair. You claim everyone else has an "idea in your head's that won't change" while sticking to your own views so rigidly that you compare everyone else to 4 year olds for not agreeing with you.
You also understand i am sure that you have basically called the majority of the wow community so stupid that they would even stick with and pay a monthly fee for a game even if they didn't like it because they are so in awe with the scale and complexity it overwhelmed their natural common sense???
Would just like to step back another couple of posts too and point out that
"The Asian markets probably have more experience than anyone else in the MMO field" with so much experience in the field they should have come out with multiple blockbusters by now don't you think?"
.....is another poor statement! Just because a game is not big in the west does not mean that it can't be a blockbuster in it's own country of origin. Games like Granado Espada as of February this year was played in 30 countries by over 20 Million subscribers and has passed over 30 Billion South Korean Won in Sales. OK, financially still not on the scale of WOW, but in terms of subs numbers and the fact that in some countries it uses a FTP model so has no income there, it is still what i would consider a huge game.
At this point, could i just throw in the completely wacky idea that people play wow just because they enjoy playing it?? I know it seems crazy and way out there, but just imagine for a minute that people actually payed for the game, found they enjoyed it more than some other games they played and kept on enjoying it. Even more crazy that that (and i know i am heading into asylum crazy level here), but you may even consider that some even left the game, tried some other MMO's, found they didn't enjoy those as much as WOW and came back again just purely for the enjoyment of it.
NAH!! It's just too crazy.........or is it?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
No, numbers do mean something when the statement is made that it is still going strong 4 1/2 years later.If people didn't like the game, then they wouldn't buy it. It doesn't matter whether the game is easy or hard in your opinion, it doesn't matter if you think a retard could play it. The fact remains that it is still the biggest MMORPG on the market. Period. That is indisputable fact. No one is saying that everyone in the world likes it or that everyone should be playing it. They are just saying that is the most successful MMORPG and I think a game that is still selling boxes 4 1/2 years later AND dominates over 60 percent of that genre's market share is still going strong.If you to dispute that then fine, but you got have more than "Any one can play it," because that is a very weak argument.
When a company spends millions of dollars to create a game of console they are doing it with the expectation of it being a top seller. That's what they care about. If the market demanded a hardcore group game with sandbox play you would see many in development. The fact of the matter is, the market DOESN'T demand it because the alternative styles have mostly been a failure and lost money. Doesn't matter if we are talking a simulator like SIMS Online or a group oriented/sandbox like SWG 2003. No company is going to spend all that money just to appease a small base of subscribers who want to live a second life with a video game.
Just as impressive as it is that WoW has been around for 4.5 years, still king of the market and still going strong and showing little sign of collasping...
it's just as phenomonal to realize that there are people who have been actively HATING WoW for at least half of that time, if not longer. I have no idea how someone can coddle and cultivate that much hate and chase after a game they despise for that long. That sure sounds like a serious mental block these people would need real professional help to overcome.
One month, 6 months, even a year I'd say "Okay, they didn't like the game." But to keep chasing after it like yamming puppies chasing a mailtruck for several YEARS, lmao.
"With more than 11.5 million monthly subscribers,World of Warcraft is currently the world's largest MMORPG in those terms, and holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG.In April 2008, World of Warcraft was estimated to hold 62% of the massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) market." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_warcraft Beat that with a stick.
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Now I have seen it all.......someone is comparing WOW to a carcinogen. LOL.....
I'd wager that some of these people would end up in asylums if WOW was still around 50 years from now.
Just as impressive as it is that WoW has been around for 4.5 years, still king of the market and still going strong and showing little sign of collasping...
it's just as phenomonal to realize that there are people who have been actively HATING WoW for at least half of that time, if not longer. I have no idea how someone can coddle and cultivate that much hate and chase after a game they despise for that long. That sure sounds like a serious mental block these people would need real professional help to overcome.
One month, 6 months, even a year I'd say "Okay, they didn't like the game." But to keep chasing after it like yamming puppies chasing a mailtruck for several YEARS, lmao.
How many games (even on consoles) you know that keeps SELLING after ... 4.5 years ? Week of March 22 - 29, 2009*
TITLE - PUBLISHER - AVERAGE PRICE
1) World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King - Activision Blizzard - $33
2) Empire: Total War - Sega - $33
3) The Sims 2 Double Deluxe - Electronic Arts - $20
4) World of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Activision Blizzard - $33
5) Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - THQ - $47
6) Spore - Electronic Arts - $47
7) Mystery Case Files: Return to Ravenhearst - Activision Blizzard - $19
8) World of Warcraft - Activision Blizzard - $20
9) The Sims 2 Apartment Life - Electronic Arts - $20
10) Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway - Ubisoft - $13 Do you see Bioshock? Do you see Call of Duty 5? Do you see FAll out 3? The above three games were recently launched. Every other video game lasts about 6 months (at the most). And add this top 10 in on online games being played in our westeren world. www.xfire.com A sample of ... 200.000 on line PC players (and sampled 24/hours on 24 Hours). --- ---> Would YOU play 15 Euros a month just to listen to Brittney Spears ::)))) ---- That's the difference.
Please don't call Blizzard, Activision Blizzard. It's really disrespectful to Blizzard when you are trying to divide their efforts amongst Activision.. a company with less than sub-par video game development. Not to mention their overuse of the same game, same sequels, and yet... you wonder why they had to merge... hmmmmm.
Again... really, for the diginity of probably one of the most founded game companies in history, just call them Blizzard.
they still work as 2 different companies.. vivendy bought activision, and since vivendi owns blizzard, they went and called it a merge.. well or something as that.. i wouldnt call activision sub par, tho ,they had some good games
I am a new WoW user and joined due to many friends telling me to try it and come play with them. I have played many f2p and p2p games before, but was ready for something else. I am only just lvl 50 priest now, but I have done every instance at level with a friend or four from deep mines to Blackrock mountain (we haven't finished that one as we tried last night but all the little guys before the emperor were just too much... waves of them flooding at us kept those darn torches from us). I am not huge on questing... sometimes it is nice log in for an hour and plug away at them and get them done fast and feel like you accomplished something in your hour. What I do love is the ability to group with friends and see what we can do in those instances. I have many people now on friend's list including new people I just met and they have all been great help in getting started. Community on the server I am on is A+ so far .. I may have just lucked out as I know I too heard that the community was young and self-interested. ( i look into games before I shell out on them)
I also know that like every other MMO I have ever played... that I will get bored and will leave one day. The key here is to play what you enjoy and get out before you grow to resent it.
As to advertisement... We don't have WoW commercials in my country (at least I have never seen one). There is a card game but I think you can only find it in comic and hobby stores ( no idea if big stores Wal-Mart, Zellers, sears, toys R Us carry it) and some other books and merchandise. BUT at this point WoW is word of mouth. Everyone knows someone playing it. I think that is where the longevity comes in. I know some of my friends that have high lvl toons are starting new ones so they can play with me and another friend that just started and having "the most fun ever" . I don't know if its seeing the game through the eyes of someone new or if instead of quest grinding we are trying to run instances. I know Zul Farrak was damn hilarious at lvl 42 with only 3 of us (priest, druid, pally) as me and the pally kept being frogs and the druid would run about yelling "i'm not kissing any of you".
Sometimes you get out of a game exactly what you expect. Its not forever.. you get to meet people... you get to have some laughs... its a diversion ... a pleasurable experience. And if it is no longer fun....then move on. If you feel you have reached the end of the game then take a leave from it. Find a new hobby/game. Maybe new expansion/update will draw you back or maybe what you find elsewhere will suit where you are in life now. Life is not static... I will never enjoy the exact same things I did as a child. Movies I loved when I was a teenager suddenly don't seem as engaging now that I am in my twenties.
More to the point is that what we love is subjective. We do not all love the same things, but we should recognize and respect other people's views. We do not have to agree with them, but allow them to exist (wherein these ideas are not counter-productive to the moral/legal standings of individuals or a community - as I can see someone trying to extrapolate my statement to justify racism/sexism/etc which would be out of context but some need to put opinions to extremes that no one would agree with inorder to force a point).
Just as impressive as it is that WoW has been around for 4.5 years, still king of the market and still going strong and showing little sign of collasping...
it's just as phenomonal to realize that there are people who have been actively HATING WoW for at least half of that time, if not longer. I have no idea how someone can coddle and cultivate that much hate and chase after a game they despise for that long. That sure sounds like a serious mental block these people would need real professional help to overcome.
One month, 6 months, even a year I'd say "Okay, they didn't like the game." But to keep chasing after it like yamming puppies chasing a mailtruck for several YEARS, lmao.
The above is a very good post and "should" show that most wow "haters" aren't really in touch with reality and society.
Quite ironic a statement, considering that we're talking about a game, wouldn't you say?
BUT BUT perhaps these guys aren't even representing anything. Perhaps these Wow haters are always the same guys returning on the same horse with a different alt on the forums.
Ah, the conspiracies are still going strong, I see. Guys who don't like the game must all be the same person, presumably Marc Jacobs, right? Wish I had his salary.
And EVEN play the damn thing with their alter egos in Azeroth. A kind of split personality. "I played Wow for 4 years and now I hate it". Jesus, playing 4 years something at 3 hours a day and hating it .........but for how long ?!?!?
---
Perhaps ... there IS not really a "bored with Wow" overall mentality and it is mostly a state of mind which goes by as the mood of the unsteady poster changes.....
These are the most worrisome phrases in your entire statement, because it sounds exactly like the reasoning that religious sects make when dealing with criticism from members. "They'll be back... because they love us... the critics are insane... it's just a state of mind... don't trust them... you're safe here..." You can't imagine how sick this makes me.
It is either this or indeed a serious mental block that needs a real professional help.
As opposed to those who love a game and brook no dissent, such as... oh... you?
In both cases their number is really nothing compared to the people who are happily playing the game.
Ah yes, where would we be without a typical Zorndorf appeal to the silent majority? Ever heard of the "tyranny of the majority", Zorndorf? Because that's all you ever do.
I refer to the latest US study of Wow players mentioned on Wowinsider. 400K US women between 24 and 54 years play the game. And the group ABOVE 54 men/women exceeded the early teenagers with a huge percentage.
Ir-re-le-vant.
I doubt these people are very active on a whining forum. No they are just having fun with the game.
--- conclusion ----
The above is rather important for designers who THINK they should address "bored Wow players". And it even explains VERY well why these games have such a small retention rate and loose about 75% of their players after 2/3 months.
This should just expose the fallacy of making WoW clones. Bored WoW players will be bored by a WoW clone, and people who want an alternative to WoW will stay away. Let's hope publishers retain this lesson instead of coming up with another ripoff as Warhammer was. But the sheer market share of WoW has corrupted the market to no end, by having every publisher drooling about those figures. Not WoW's fault in itself. It's the fault of both the publishers and the WoW players who wear blinders by ignoring every alternative to their game without even trying them out.
Every sales fact of sub cards show that ... 90% of long term Wow players are not bored. And even the 5% who say it on the forums... still play it. It would indeed explain a LOT of the staying power of Wow.
You know, that's not even the problem, except for those 5% (assuming your figures are correct) who are facing a classic case of addiction, and based on the above you'd just deny them the right to stop. As for the 10% who are assumed to be bored (again, as per your figures), where do they fit in all this? Are they to be denied the right to be bored, based on 90% not being bored?
Your problem is that you are forcing people to like WoW based solely on the fact that it has 11 million subscribers. The figure is irrelevant. It's a classic example of tyranny of the majority. Remember that case with the guy's signature mentioning how 11.7 million Germans voted for Hitler in 1932, before you went Godwin all over him without even addressing his point? Well, that's the point. 11.7 million votes didn't make Hitler a good guy, and 11.5 million WoW players don't make the game good either.
And if you want to start that whole discussion again about how the best game is the one which makes the most money, again, no. If you're an investor, okay, but as a gamer pure and simple (which is my case), it's not even a worthy criterion.
This should just expose the fallacy of making WoW clones. Bored WoW players will be bored by a WoW clone, and people who want an alternative to WoW will stay away. Let's hope publishers retain this lesson instead of coming up with another ripoff as Warhammer was. But the sheer market share of WoW has corrupted the market to no end, by having every publisher drooling about those figures. Not WoW's fault in itself. It's the fault of both the publishers and the WoW players who wear blinders by ignoring every alternative to their game without even trying them out. If they are already enjoying the game they are playing, why should they leave it to try something else? You know, that's not even the problem, except for those 5% (assuming your figures are correct) who are facing a classic case of addiction, and based on the above you'd just deny them the right to stop. As for the 10% who are assumed to be bored (again, as per your figures), where do they fit in all this? Are they to be denied the right to be bored, based on 90% not being bored? Okay, how is anyone's "rights" being denied? Your problem is that you are forcing people to like WoW based solely on the fact that it has 11 million subscribers. The figure is irrelevant. It's a classic example of tyranny of the majority. Remember that case with the guy's signature mentioning how 11.7 million Germans voted for Hitler in 1932, before you went Godwin all over him without even addressing his point? Well, that's the point. 11.7 million votes didn't make Hitler a good guy, and 11.5 million WoW players don't make the game good either. And if you want to start that whole discussion again about how the best game is the one which makes the most money, again, no. If you're an investor, okay, but as a gamer pure and simple (which is my case), it's not even a worthy criterion.
I have some free advice that might do you some good: Turn of the computer and back away because something is robbing you of your sense of reality.
This should just expose the fallacy of making WoW clones. Bored WoW players will be bored by a WoW clone, and people who want an alternative to WoW will stay away. Let's hope publishers retain this lesson instead of coming up with another ripoff as Warhammer was. But the sheer market share of WoW has corrupted the market to no end, by having every publisher drooling about those figures. Not WoW's fault in itself. It's the fault of both the publishers and the WoW players who wear blinders by ignoring every alternative to their game without even trying them out. If they are already enjoying the game they are playing, why should they leave it to try something else? You know, that's not even the problem, except for those 5% (assuming your figures are correct) who are facing a classic case of addiction, and based on the above you'd just deny them the right to stop. As for the 10% who are assumed to be bored (again, as per your figures), where do they fit in all this? Are they to be denied the right to be bored, based on 90% not being bored? Okay, how is anyone's "rights" being denied? Your problem is that you are forcing people to like WoW based solely on the fact that it has 11 million subscribers. The figure is irrelevant. It's a classic example of tyranny of the majority. Remember that case with the guy's signature mentioning how 11.7 million Germans voted for Hitler in 1932, before you went Godwin all over him without even addressing his point? Well, that's the point. 11.7 million votes didn't make Hitler a good guy, and 11.5 million WoW players don't make the game good either. And if you want to start that whole discussion again about how the best game is the one which makes the most money, again, no. If you're an investor, okay, but as a gamer pure and simple (which is my case), it's not even a worthy criterion.
I have some free advice that might do you some good: Turn of the computer and back away because something is robbing you of your sense of reality.
Just to say that I - Zorndorf - didn't write any of the green stuff ). You must think the readers of this forum to be a bunch of idiots if you feel the need to point out you didn't write the green stuff. It was our known Wow hater, Vetarnias. Ah yes, "hater". Any criticism of WoW must immediately be "hate". How convenient. To be honest, I was and still am rather indifferent to WoW, not my cup of tea really, but since I'm not even allowed so much as indifference because my not enjoying the game is immediately considered irrelevant in the face of the tyranny of the 11.5 million majority, well... I'm still on this forum instead of having just shrugged this game off.
The man without a life. Ah, now we merrily enter the realm of the ad hominem. How nice of you to presume of how I occupy my time. I thought that MMO's, by and large, were a massive waste of time, regardless of the name it bears. But since we're discussing that, I might as well make the same claim about you having no life, defending as you are a game which doesn't even require defending because it's so vastly popular, and a company which probably doesn't give a hoot about your support.
The more I read Vetarnias, the more I see everything in perspective: Wow haters are indeed a dying breed and need professional help. Two more unsupported assumptions right here. Dying breed? Based on what evidence? There's still a market out there for non-WoW games, as demonstrated by all those early sales of other MMO's. Retention is a different matter altogether, but there are people looking for alternatives. Can't yet talk of a dying breed, can you?
Oh, and "professional help"? What are you implying here, by the way? I'd like to be sure, instead of trying to guess. And I'd just like to get as much evidence as possible by the time I hit the "report" button. However, if it means what I think it means, not only is it just low, it's another ad hominem attack which has nothing to do with WoW whatsoever. But since you've broached the subject, who was it that actually bickered over a discrepancy of $4.86 in the price I paid for WoW, then accused me of distorting the truth by not mentioning it was in Canadian dollars, and all this after accusing me of not buying the game in the first place?
It was you. If you want to drag the conversation in this direction of professional help, I'll just say this: Seek professional help first -- and try for once to behave like the 50-odd-year-old man you're supposed to be instead of trying to censor the forums every time you get called out on your lies and abuse.
Oh, and how's Star Trek Online going? Still trying to censor all negativity over there while you're gushing all over a game you haven't played yet just because you like the franchise?
Been playing WoW since the European release and must say I've loved every minute of it. Our guild has been going strong for 4 years now and it's a great community.
Been also playing EvE on and off for the last 3 years for my pvp fix. Basically enjoy these games for what they are and stop demanding developers to tailor to your every need.
Personally I really can not understand why anyone likes this game. I tried it for a few months but the point and clicky shity combat just got very very boring. Also having levels rather than skills just makes the game so dull and an EQ clone.
I am really suprised so many people like the game still. I guess you could not really call most of the players true MMO players though.
Just to say that I - Zorndorf - didn't write any of the green stuff ). You must think the readers of this forum to be a bunch of idiots if you feel the need to point out you didn't write the green stuff. It was our known Wow hater, Vetarnias. Ah yes, "hater". Any criticism of WoW must immediately be "hate". How convenient. To be honest, I was and still am rather indifferent to WoW, not my cup of tea really, but since I'm not even allowed so much as indifference because my not enjoying the game is immediately considered irrelevant in the face of the tyranny of the 11.5 million majority, well... I'm still on this forum instead of having just shrugged this game off. The man without a life. Ah, now we merrily enter the realm of the ad hominem. How nice of you to presume of how I occupy my time. I thought that MMO's, by and large, were a massive waste of time, regardless of the name it bears. But since we're discussing that, I might as well make the same claim about you having no life, defending as you are a game which doesn't even require defending because it's so vastly popular, and a company which probably doesn't give a hoot about your support. The more I read Vetarnias, the more I see everything in perspective: Wow haters are indeed a dying breed and need professional help. Two more unsupported assumptions right here. Dying breed? Based on what evidence? There's still a market out there for non-WoW games, as demonstrated by all those early sales of other MMO's. Retention is a different matter altogether, but there are people looking for alternatives. Can't yet talk of a dying breed, can you? Oh, and "professional help"? What are you implying here, by the way? I'd like to be sure, instead of trying to guess. And I'd just like to get as much evidence as possible by the time I hit the "report" button. However, if it means what I think it means, not only is it just low, it's another ad hominem attack which has nothing to do with WoW whatsoever. But since you've broached the subject, who was it that actually bickered over a discrepancy of $4.86 in the price I paid for WoW, then accused me of distorting the truth by not mentioning it was in Canadian dollars, and all this after accusing me of not buying the game in the first place? It was you. If you want to drag the conversation in this direction of professional help, I'll just say this: Seek professional help first -- and try for once to behave like the 50-odd-year-old man you're supposed to be instead of trying to censor the forums every time you get called out on your lies and abuse. Oh, and how's Star Trek Online going? Still trying to censor all negativity over there while you're gushing all over a game you haven't played yet just because you like the franchise?
I don't think you are very well viewed here on our forum.
Your post doesn't add anything meaningful to a discussion of why Wow is so succesful after all these 4.5 years.
You didn't like to play the number one PC game of these last 5 years.
So I don't see how I can help you loving it.
Get over it, Blizzard did not take your life away. But apparently you are still not certain of this.
It's not....just because you still have a bunch of sheep playing WoW....doesn't make WoW successful these days....unless you are blind to the MMO market.....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Comments
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I respectfully ask you to provide the solid evidence to back up this other tired and unproven argument??
Personally, my experience before WOW only included Earth & Beyond, Anarchy Online, DaoC, EVE in the main as well as a few trials and Free to Play games. Hardly the most experience in the world, but hardly total inexperience and i have/do still enjoy WOW even after playing it from launch.
The Asian markets probably have more experience than anyone else in the MMO field as there are masses of them over there all with varying degrees of polish and play styles, so i would hardly call them the most inexperienced market in the world either.
The point is that unless you actually know every one of the players that subscribe to WOW then you are hardly in a position to make a blanket statement like you have above and even with inexperience, people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have.
As for WOW killing the MMO market, well that just isn't true at all is it. With more and more people gaining access to broadband worldwide the market is opening wider and wider and there are those that don't and won't like WOW so there is plenty of scope for someone with some imagination and vision to come forward and claim that market for themselves.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Now I have seen it all.......someone is comparing WOW to a carcinogen. LOL.....
sounds like people will play anything to me.....was fun for a while...but get over yourselves....not still that good.....
then again....what has come out to take it's place?
/meh
(saying /meh in certain states has been deemed illegal)
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Please don't call Blizzard, Activision Blizzard. It's really disrespectful to Blizzard when you are trying to divide their efforts amongst Activision.. a company with less than sub-par video game development. Not to mention their overuse of the same game, same sequels, and yet... you wonder why they had to merge... hmmmmm.
Again... really, for the diginity of probably one of the most founded game companies in history, just call them Blizzard.
You don't quite get the point of forum posts do you? People are allowed to have opposing views on the same subject, pretty much the same as the rest of the world works to be fair. You claim everyone else has an "idea in your head's that won't change" while sticking to your own views so rigidly that you compare everyone else to 4 year olds for not agreeing with you.
You also understand i am sure that you have basically called the majority of the wow community so stupid that they would even stick with and pay a monthly fee for a game even if they didn't like it because they are so in awe with the scale and complexity it overwhelmed their natural common sense???
Would just like to step back another couple of posts too and point out that
"The Asian markets probably have more experience than anyone else in the MMO field" with so much experience in the field they should have come out with multiple blockbusters by now don't you think?"
.....is another poor statement! Just because a game is not big in the west does not mean that it can't be a blockbuster in it's own country of origin. Games like Granado Espada as of February this year was played in 30 countries by over 20 Million subscribers and has passed over 30 Billion South Korean Won in Sales. OK, financially still not on the scale of WOW, but in terms of subs numbers and the fact that in some countries it uses a FTP model so has no income there, it is still what i would consider a huge game.
At this point, could i just throw in the completely wacky idea that people play wow just because they enjoy playing it?? I know it seems crazy and way out there, but just imagine for a minute that people actually payed for the game, found they enjoyed it more than some other games they played and kept on enjoying it. Even more crazy that that (and i know i am heading into asylum crazy level here), but you may even consider that some even left the game, tried some other MMO's, found they didn't enjoy those as much as WOW and came back again just purely for the enjoyment of it.
NAH!! It's just too crazy.........or is it?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
[Mod Edit]
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
No, numbers do mean something when the statement is made that it is still going strong 4 1/2 years later.If people didn't like the game, then they wouldn't buy it. It doesn't matter whether the game is easy or hard in your opinion, it doesn't matter if you think a retard could play it. The fact remains that it is still the biggest MMORPG on the market. Period. That is indisputable fact. No one is saying that everyone in the world likes it or that everyone should be playing it. They are just saying that is the most successful MMORPG and I think a game that is still selling boxes 4 1/2 years later AND dominates over 60 percent of that genre's market share is still going strong.If you to dispute that then fine, but you got have more than "Any one can play it," because that is a very weak argument.
When a company spends millions of dollars to create a game of console they are doing it with the expectation of it being a top seller. That's what they care about. If the market demanded a hardcore group game with sandbox play you would see many in development. The fact of the matter is, the market DOESN'T demand it because the alternative styles have mostly been a failure and lost money. Doesn't matter if we are talking a simulator like SIMS Online or a group oriented/sandbox like SWG 2003. No company is going to spend all that money just to appease a small base of subscribers who want to live a second life with a video game.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Just as impressive as it is that WoW has been around for 4.5 years, still king of the market and still going strong and showing little sign of collasping...
it's just as phenomonal to realize that there are people who have been actively HATING WoW for at least half of that time, if not longer. I have no idea how someone can coddle and cultivate that much hate and chase after a game they despise for that long. That sure sounds like a serious mental block these people would need real professional help to overcome.
One month, 6 months, even a year I'd say "Okay, they didn't like the game." But to keep chasing after it like yamming puppies chasing a mailtruck for several YEARS, lmao.
"TO MICHAEL!"
In the early 1950's 80% of the Western World smoked tobacco, it's now down to 25%.
Beat that statistic with a (cancer) stick.
Now I have seen it all.......someone is comparing WOW to a carcinogen. LOL.....
I'd wager that some of these people would end up in asylums if WOW was still around 50 years from now.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
epic.. winner
Please don't call Blizzard, Activision Blizzard. It's really disrespectful to Blizzard when you are trying to divide their efforts amongst Activision.. a company with less than sub-par video game development. Not to mention their overuse of the same game, same sequels, and yet... you wonder why they had to merge... hmmmmm.
Again... really, for the diginity of probably one of the most founded game companies in history, just call them Blizzard.
they still work as 2 different companies.. vivendy bought activision, and since vivendi owns blizzard, they went and called it a merge.. well or something as that.. i wouldnt call activision sub par, tho ,they had some good games
Putting in my two cents:
I am a new WoW user and joined due to many friends telling me to try it and come play with them. I have played many f2p and p2p games before, but was ready for something else. I am only just lvl 50 priest now, but I have done every instance at level with a friend or four from deep mines to Blackrock mountain (we haven't finished that one as we tried last night but all the little guys before the emperor were just too much... waves of them flooding at us kept those darn torches from us). I am not huge on questing... sometimes it is nice log in for an hour and plug away at them and get them done fast and feel like you accomplished something in your hour. What I do love is the ability to group with friends and see what we can do in those instances. I have many people now on friend's list including new people I just met and they have all been great help in getting started. Community on the server I am on is A+ so far .. I may have just lucked out as I know I too heard that the community was young and self-interested. ( i look into games before I shell out on them)
I also know that like every other MMO I have ever played... that I will get bored and will leave one day. The key here is to play what you enjoy and get out before you grow to resent it.
As to advertisement... We don't have WoW commercials in my country (at least I have never seen one). There is a card game but I think you can only find it in comic and hobby stores ( no idea if big stores Wal-Mart, Zellers, sears, toys R Us carry it) and some other books and merchandise. BUT at this point WoW is word of mouth. Everyone knows someone playing it. I think that is where the longevity comes in. I know some of my friends that have high lvl toons are starting new ones so they can play with me and another friend that just started and having "the most fun ever" . I don't know if its seeing the game through the eyes of someone new or if instead of quest grinding we are trying to run instances. I know Zul Farrak was damn hilarious at lvl 42 with only 3 of us (priest, druid, pally) as me and the pally kept being frogs and the druid would run about yelling "i'm not kissing any of you".
Sometimes you get out of a game exactly what you expect. Its not forever.. you get to meet people... you get to have some laughs... its a diversion ... a pleasurable experience. And if it is no longer fun....then move on. If you feel you have reached the end of the game then take a leave from it. Find a new hobby/game. Maybe new expansion/update will draw you back or maybe what you find elsewhere will suit where you are in life now. Life is not static... I will never enjoy the exact same things I did as a child. Movies I loved when I was a teenager suddenly don't seem as engaging now that I am in my twenties.
More to the point is that what we love is subjective. We do not all love the same things, but we should recognize and respect other people's views. We do not have to agree with them, but allow them to exist (wherein these ideas are not counter-productive to the moral/legal standings of individuals or a community - as I can see someone trying to extrapolate my statement to justify racism/sexism/etc which would be out of context but some need to put opinions to extremes that no one would agree with inorder to force a point).
Currently Playing: D3-ROS
Previously played: WoW, Tera, SWTOR, TSW, Rift, Defiance, GW2, Aion, LotRO, Rapplez, RoM, Dofus, LC, Requiem, WoKF, PW, etc
Waiting on: Wildstar
The above is a very good post and "should" show that most wow "haters" aren't really in touch with reality and society.
Quite ironic a statement, considering that we're talking about a game, wouldn't you say?
BUT BUT perhaps these guys aren't even representing anything. Perhaps these Wow haters are always the same guys returning on the same horse with a different alt on the forums.
Ah, the conspiracies are still going strong, I see. Guys who don't like the game must all be the same person, presumably Marc Jacobs, right? Wish I had his salary.
And EVEN play the damn thing with their alter egos in Azeroth. A kind of split personality. "I played Wow for 4 years and now I hate it". Jesus, playing 4 years something at 3 hours a day and hating it .........but for how long ?!?!?
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Perhaps ... there IS not really a "bored with Wow" overall mentality and it is mostly a state of mind which goes by as the mood of the unsteady poster changes.....
These are the most worrisome phrases in your entire statement, because it sounds exactly like the reasoning that religious sects make when dealing with criticism from members. "They'll be back... because they love us... the critics are insane... it's just a state of mind... don't trust them... you're safe here..." You can't imagine how sick this makes me.
It is either this or indeed a serious mental block that needs a real professional help.
As opposed to those who love a game and brook no dissent, such as... oh... you?
In both cases their number is really nothing compared to the people who are happily playing the game.
Ah yes, where would we be without a typical Zorndorf appeal to the silent majority? Ever heard of the "tyranny of the majority", Zorndorf? Because that's all you ever do.
I refer to the latest US study of Wow players mentioned on Wowinsider. 400K US women between 24 and 54 years play the game. And the group ABOVE 54 men/women exceeded the early teenagers with a huge percentage.
Ir-re-le-vant.
I doubt these people are very active on a whining forum. No they are just having fun with the game.
--- conclusion ----
The above is rather important for designers who THINK they should address "bored Wow players". And it even explains VERY well why these games have such a small retention rate and loose about 75% of their players after 2/3 months.
This should just expose the fallacy of making WoW clones. Bored WoW players will be bored by a WoW clone, and people who want an alternative to WoW will stay away. Let's hope publishers retain this lesson instead of coming up with another ripoff as Warhammer was. But the sheer market share of WoW has corrupted the market to no end, by having every publisher drooling about those figures. Not WoW's fault in itself. It's the fault of both the publishers and the WoW players who wear blinders by ignoring every alternative to their game without even trying them out.
Every sales fact of sub cards show that ... 90% of long term Wow players are not bored. And even the 5% who say it on the forums... still play it. It would indeed explain a LOT of the staying power of Wow.
You know, that's not even the problem, except for those 5% (assuming your figures are correct) who are facing a classic case of addiction, and based on the above you'd just deny them the right to stop. As for the 10% who are assumed to be bored (again, as per your figures), where do they fit in all this? Are they to be denied the right to be bored, based on 90% not being bored?
Your problem is that you are forcing people to like WoW based solely on the fact that it has 11 million subscribers. The figure is irrelevant. It's a classic example of tyranny of the majority. Remember that case with the guy's signature mentioning how 11.7 million Germans voted for Hitler in 1932, before you went Godwin all over him without even addressing his point? Well, that's the point. 11.7 million votes didn't make Hitler a good guy, and 11.5 million WoW players don't make the game good either.
And if you want to start that whole discussion again about how the best game is the one which makes the most money, again, no. If you're an investor, okay, but as a gamer pure and simple (which is my case), it's not even a worthy criterion.
I have some free advice that might do you some good: Turn of the computer and back away because something is robbing you of your sense of reality.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I have some free advice that might do you some good: Turn of the computer and back away because something is robbing you of your sense of reality.
Just to say that I - Zorndorf - didn't write any of the green stuff
). You must think the readers of this forum to be a bunch of idiots if you feel the need to point out you didn't write the green stuff. It was our known Wow hater, Vetarnias. Ah yes, "hater". Any criticism of WoW must immediately be "hate". How convenient. To be honest, I was and still am rather indifferent to WoW, not my cup of tea really, but since I'm not even allowed so much as indifference because my not enjoying the game is immediately considered irrelevant in the face of the tyranny of the 11.5 million majority, well... I'm still on this forum instead of having just shrugged this game off.
The man without a life. Ah, now we merrily enter the realm of the ad hominem. How nice of you to presume of how I occupy my time. I thought that MMO's, by and large, were a massive waste of time, regardless of the name it bears. But since we're discussing that, I might as well make the same claim about you having no life, defending as you are a game which doesn't even require defending because it's so vastly popular, and a company which probably doesn't give a hoot about your support.
The more I read Vetarnias, the more I see everything in perspective: Wow haters are indeed a dying breed and need professional help. Two more unsupported assumptions right here. Dying breed? Based on what evidence? There's still a market out there for non-WoW games, as demonstrated by all those early sales of other MMO's. Retention is a different matter altogether, but there are people looking for alternatives. Can't yet talk of a dying breed, can you?
Oh, and "professional help"? What are you implying here, by the way? I'd like to be sure, instead of trying to guess. And I'd just like to get as much evidence as possible by the time I hit the "report" button. However, if it means what I think it means, not only is it just low, it's another ad hominem attack which has nothing to do with WoW whatsoever. But since you've broached the subject, who was it that actually bickered over a discrepancy of $4.86 in the price I paid for WoW, then accused me of distorting the truth by not mentioning it was in Canadian dollars, and all this after accusing me of not buying the game in the first place?
It was you. If you want to drag the conversation in this direction of professional help, I'll just say this: Seek professional help first -- and try for once to behave like the 50-odd-year-old man you're supposed to be instead of trying to censor the forums every time you get called out on your lies and abuse.
Oh, and how's Star Trek Online going? Still trying to censor all negativity over there while you're gushing all over a game you haven't played yet just because you like the franchise?
Been playing WoW since the European release and must say I've loved every minute of it. Our guild has been going strong for 4 years now and it's a great community.
Been also playing EvE on and off for the last 3 years for my pvp fix. Basically enjoy these games for what they are and stop demanding developers to tailor to your every need.
Personally I really can not understand why anyone likes this game. I tried it for a few months but the point and clicky shity combat just got very very boring. Also having levels rather than skills just makes the game so dull and an EQ clone.
I am really suprised so many people like the game still. I guess you could not really call most of the players true MMO players though.
I don't think you are very well viewed here on our forum.
Your post doesn't add anything meaningful to a discussion of why Wow is so succesful after all these 4.5 years.
You didn't like to play the number one PC game of these last 5 years.
So I don't see how I can help you loving it.
Get over it, Blizzard did not take your life away. But apparently you are still not certain of this.
It's not....just because you still have a bunch of sheep playing WoW....doesn't make WoW successful these days....unless you are blind to the MMO market.....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."